Gun Bans coming in SA

[AussieCapitalist]

Hey lads. So SA(South Aus not the bores) is making firearm owners conduct a "self audit" to record make, model, serial number and other identifying features of their firearms as well as information about how each of their firearms are stored and secured.

Looks to me like they are gathering information on what people have to update the useless do nothing broken registry before further bans come in. And what is "other identifying features". I don't know SA firearms laws but that cant be lawful. Scopes and bipods are not firearms. What do other features have to do with anything? They are trying to gather a market value for them and all the accessories so they know what the next steal back will cost them. The police are so good at their jobs they need the tax payer to do it for them.

I say the unlimited Cat B magazines will be getting banned lads.

https://www.police.sa.gov.au/sa-police- ... s98B25uJjo

[Elmer]

I can't see that happening mate...it's not just SA , all of the state's and territories will be adopting this new system as well.
So hold on tight

[AussieCapitalist]

I will re read the QLD weapons laws again mate but there is nothing in there that states I must conduct an audit on my self. I will fight that in court if I have too. If they want an audit they can do it. What does the SA firearms laws say about this? Scopes, bipods and other accessories are not firearms so they do not need to know about them. We need some legal action to challenge this.

[AussieCapitalist]

Is this so called self audit legal under SA law? I would say the firearms act does not allow for this.

[AussieCapitalist]

Ok just reading the SA laws and suck me sideways it is legal.

[glenn777]

If the registry is working then why would there be a need to self audit?

[snag]

The start of a very slippery slope ...

[Sarco]

To me, there are several possibilities:

1.SAPol has absolutely no confidence in the current registry records and therefore are demanding that IAW the Act, that firearms owners assist them with correct information so that it IS as correct as it can be (when humans transfer the data or no review of the input data occurs) on transfer to the "new state system"

2. SAPol enforces the provisions of the Act, and then compares the the results to the existing registry. If details don't match up (for whatever reason), charge the LAFO for making false statements. Then check to see which is right (registry or LAFO).

3. Simply saving themselves the expense over time of having every LAFO firearms and safe keeping checked throughout the state to avoid the already overdue move to the new state system.

[TassieTiger]

This is quite unbelievable.
If I’m reading this correctly - and I may not be - there is a glaring hole in the wording...being1. “Licensed in his name OR in his possession..”

So - if you loan several rifles to a mate, who owns an applicable licence thus, is allowed to borrow, then it would not be Up to you to notify the registry of those firearms - it would be up to your mate.
Now if your mate responds a week after you (if he even gets a request) ? And gives back the firearms after you have reported? The registry would proven to be a waste of time...as its accuracy would be called into question ?

[womble]

Some, well likely many people, still own registered firearms that they are no longer allowed to own.
They did’nt hand them in during past amnesties.
Nobody came to collect those guns.
many people probably just did’nt do anything. I mean they originally bought the firearms and registered them legally and have the paper work.
They can’t use those guns and have’nt been able to for many years. They can only end up as heirlooms.
So this is just a push on those people to reconsider with the passage of time, to hand them in.
This is really just a push for them to surrender them. Read the last line on the sa plod link and follow the link given in it.

In 96 i handed in around a dozen firearms. I had always done everything by the book and followed the laws. All my paperwork and details.
When i handed them in they had no record of me owning any of them. I was pretty shocked by that at the time.
You have to consider, individual state records, pretty much pre computer. Firearm dealers keeping records sending copies to local individual plods. All on paper. It dose’nt just all get re-typed into some giant master copy book.
So yeah, the registry is an ongoing work in progress and probably dose’nt have many staff assigned to it.
And who knows, maybe in a few hundred years from now it might actually be up to date.

Other states will likely follow suit with amnesties. Because these heirlooms are turning up in crime scenes in more recent times.

[womble]

And then, some of the guns that are handed in during amnesties somehow end up in crime scenes. Hmmm.
Because apart from the person handing that item in and the person recieving it, nobody else knows it even exists.
And around and around we go because banning always fails and only achieves more crime.
Even Martin used a gun that was handed in during a previous amnesty.

As a side note.
The police are’nt perfect, but believe me they are a hell of a lot more ethical today than they were in the 80’s/90’s.
And they’re not to blame for this

[Oldbloke]

I'm in Vic. Each time I renew my licence i get a print out of firearms registered to me. Asked to check and make any changes required and send back with renewal application.

The way I look at it it they are asking you to audit their work. No big deal.

P.S. Where ever people are involved there will be human errors.

[Oldbloke]

If the registry is working then why would there be a need to self audit?

Audits are a normal part of business.

[straightshooter]

Is this so called self audit legal under SA law? I would say the firearms act does not allow for this.

Are we simple or what?
If it presently isn't legal then at the stroke of a pen it will be.

What would you have said 12 months ago about the covid crap we are going through these days?

[Sergeant Hartman]

I'm in Vic. Each time I renew my licence i get a print out of firearms registered to me. Asked to check and make any changes required and send back with renewal application.

The way I look at it it they are asking you to audit their work. No big deal.

P.S. Where ever people are involved there will be human errors.

Yep agreed.. actually i think it's a good idea... just imagine you bought a gun a couple years ago, but it's not on the list for whatever reason and you get pulled over by police for whatever reason going hunting and it's in your vehicle..... could open a can of worms.

[womble]

Not really .
They're aware they may not be find the serial number in the system. And won't want to appear incompetent
You have pink slips at home.

[glenn777]

If the registry is working then why would there be a need to self audit?

Audits are a normal part of business.

They are. Do we have to self audit our cars? Registered cats and dogs?

[AussieCapitalist]

It just shows the incompetence of the police. What do you pay your licencing fees and taxes for if they want you to do their job? Everybody knows the registry is a joke and needs to be scrapped. This is why I hate large scale civil service organisations because when ever the government puts it fingers on it the whole thing becomes a complete farce. Private businesses are always more efficient and productive than public servants because they have to be held accountable to the shareholder. We the tax payer need to hold our workers the public servant to account. Where has all the money that has been put in to the registry gone?

[Patriot]

It just shows the incompetence of the police. What do you pay your licencing fees and taxes for if they want you to do their job? Everybody knows the registry is a joke and needs to be scrapped. This is why I hate large scale civil service organisations because when ever the government puts it fingers on it the whole thing becomes a complete farce. Private businesses are always more efficient and productive than public servants because they have to be held accountable to the shareholder. We the tax payer need to hold our workers the public servant to account. Where has all the money that has been put in to the registry gone?

This idea that the public service work for the tax payer is utter rubbish. The public service work for the executive government of the day, the public service is not answerable to the tax payer.

As for private companies being better, I had to deal with Telstra the other day, a private company and a complete farce, WLB is more efficient.

[AussieCapitalist]

This idea that the public service work for the tax payer is utter rubbish. The public service work for the executive government of the day, the public service is not answerable to the tax payer.

As for private companies being better, I had to deal with Telstra the other day, a private company and a complete farce, WLB is more efficient.

And the government work for the tax payer as our elected representatives. So the public servants are all of our employees. Thats the beauty of the free market. If you are not happy with a merchant then go to someone else and that business will die if it does not adapt to market demand.

[womble]

If the registry is working then why would there be a need to self audit?

Audits are a normal part of business.

They are. Do we have to self audit our cars? Registered cats and dogs?

Is there and Amnesty on cats and how much will they give me for an unregistered one ?

[glenn777]

If the registry is working then why would there be a need to self audit?

Audits are a normal part of business.

They are. Do we have to self audit our cars? Registered cats and dogs?

Is there and Amnesty on cats and how much will they give me for an unregistered one ?

$10 in Banana shire QLD lol.

[Oldbloke]

It just shows the incompetence of the police. What do you pay your licencing fees and taxes for if they want you to do their job? Everybody knows the registry is a joke and needs to be scrapped. This is why I hate large scale civil service organisations because when ever the government puts it fingers on it the whole thing becomes a complete farce. Private businesses are always more efficient and productive than public servants because they have to be held accountable to the shareholder. We the tax payer need to hold our workers the public servant to account. Where has all the money that has been put in to the registry gone?

Not sure about the process, but they are only asking you to confirm. It is in our interests too.

BTW you are expected to ensure your car is road worthy you know.

[womble]

Well say 15% of the population have registered firearms.
They’re being bought and sold constantly changing ownership.
That’s a rather huge operation to administer.
How many people are tasked with this. Safe bet not nearly enough.
And as for the money put into it. Well don’t they deserve a Christmas break up party.
Economically you pass the expensive part of this process on to the consumer, ie us. No cost to the tax payer.

[AussieCapitalist]

Not sure about the process, but they are only asking you to confirm. It is in our interests too.

BTW you are expected to ensure your car is road worthy you know.

Expected and forced to prove is not the same thing. How is it in my interests to tell the government what I own? It is in no way shape or form in my interest or yours for that matter. This would not fly in QLD. The so called festival state is a joke.

I am currently legally obligated to store my firearms in a safe, vault, gun rack etc. The police may come and inspect my safe but I am not legally obligated to audit myself and my property.

[Ziege]

They did one in WA over 5+ years ago, longer probably, and all they did was correct some serial numbers that weren't entered correctly back when the original data entry was done.

[Patriot]

I agree with Aussie, it’s in no ones interest to tell the government anything. Most Australians seem to be more than willing to do so. Just like our convict fore fathers we love our privileges and don’t want to rock the boat for fear they’ll take them all. Gun owners particularly so.

[womble]

Totally agree. But that’s not currently written into the legislation.
Failure to comply and your licence is void.
If you don’t have a licence but own firearms. This is of no concern to you.

[AussieCapitalist]

I agree with Aussie, it’s in no ones interest to tell the government anything. Most Australians seem to be more than willing to do so. Just like our convict fore fathers we love our privileges and don’t want to rock the boat for fear they’ll take them all. Gun owners particularly so.

The registrar being unorganised is not us lawful firearm owners problem mate. It is more of a reason as well as dozens more to scrap it like Canada did. Criminals buy their firearms on the black market so a data base of what lawful owners have is just a waste of hundreds of millions of dollars for no purpose.

[marksman]

it would be a registrar farkup like has happened in vic in the past so they want you to update there system because someone pushed the wrong button again which is exactly why the lists started to be sent with firearm licence renewals in vic

it wasn't that long ago my area had a DFO who would take your firearms and charge you if your firearm serial numbers started with 0 because the registries computer could not compute a serial number that started with zero
you got your firearms and license back after hitting court and being $2000 poorer till there was a kick up by the local firearm safety course testers and we got a new DFO for the area