supposedly we are "rolling with the punches"

[Oldbloke]

more and more the facts aren't pointing even remotely to what the media totes. 0.2% avg death rate is not something to be feared at all. literally no different to the hypes swine flu of past, which was a load of tripe too.

i'm not singling you out zeige, but your post holds a common veiw and i'm just posting my veiws on the current situation in general

as someone who is older , the after effects of this virus are worrying to me . ongoing breathing issues and poor health are being well documented after the worst of the virus has past , and in fit young healthy people . the issue with this virus is health care systems being overwhelmed cause it's highly contaigious , and the death rate being much higher due to people not getting treatment .which is the reason behind lockdown . i already have scarring on my lungs from a childhood illness , i really don't want to take my chances with it .

i was a doubter on the severity of this virus, but as i learn more about the situation i'm not willing to take chances over it . taking away peoples incomes , freedom of movement and such for "government control" as some see it has exactly the opposite effect . people are more controled by having them as taxpaying working slaves, generating more wealth for those at the top . pissing them off with lockdown and financial recession is not a good way of controlling a population

as for masks , i've spent years as a metal worker , and doing foundry work and a mask to me is basic PPE . it protects your own health, and in the case of this pandemic , the health of others . i can't understand the big deal about the mask debate

virus pandemics are not new to humans , they've been around longer than humans have . what amazes me is peoples resistance to basic common sense approach to dealing with it . during the second world war we basically had martial law in this country under millitary rule and all food ,fuel and resources were rationed out , with the bulk going to the war effort . ethnic minority's were sent to internment camps for security reasons . a lot of people with italian and german background would have older relatives that can probably relate to this . history should be taught and remembered as a teacher on how we've dealt with situations far more dire than the current one . remember the staunch way aussies in the past worked together to defeat our problems .

these are my observations and humble opinion. i'm not set in my veiws as new information comes to light i will learn and adapt ,
as a fifth generation colonial should

Well stated. And i agree and some here should be ashamed of their total lack of empathy. Incredibly selfish.

A big thumbs up to u bigrich

Thumbs-up .jpg (13.64 KiB) Viewed 4000 times

Oh I'd just like to comment that it's bloody wonderful that the shooting sports has Sooo, many professionals within its ranks these days.

A few examples:
Analysts, statisticians, doctors, experts in biological research, very experienced lawyers, nation building policy experts, imunologists, safety experts, particularly in PPE and atmospheric contaminants. And lets not forget the ones that work for the RBA and treasury giving them a fantastic level of insight in the finances of the country. Ofcouse there are the experts on how to manage a national disaster.

I mean we must have at the very least a dozen here that should be running for Morrisons and Andrews job, in fact they are Sooo, good they could do both, jobs worries.

Just a tad of

[Oldbloke]

Swiss Policy

https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/

This is not Swiss government policy. It is a private organization. (.org, not .gov) It is simply someone's opinion nothing else.

[Ziege]

as opposed to other peoples opinions, that are solicited by any government at any time, i think people fail to see the simplicity of how governments obtain/ascertain information, a lot of the time the government information is incomplete or incorrect or misleading. trusting authority is everyone's first mistake. appealing to authority is a fools argument.

[Oldbloke]

as opposed to other peoples opinions, that are solicited by any government at any time, i think people fail to see the simplicity of how governments obtain/ascertain information, a lot of the time the government information is incomplete or incorrect or misleading. trusting authority is everyone's first mistake. appealing to authority is a fools argument.

So what's new? I've watch large and small business simply lie in some of their statistics they provide to businesses, their own employees and the government.

Statistics and damn statistics. But the government is at least sometimes held to account so generally lie less.

[Flyer]

I’ll have a big McBat burger and a large flies
Does the happy meal still come with the toy cockroach for our fat boy child

Carn mate, I wholeheartedly agree on shutting down unsanitary wet markets, stopping animal cruelty and giving the CCP a serve for trying to cover this thing up, but racism doesn't become you. I'd just like to point out that right now there are many Chinese being arrested in their homes for trying to defend their rights (Hong Kong) or because they tried to alert the world to the virus in the first place (Chinese virologists who spoke out when CV19 first emerged), or are actively tyrying to make the world a better place (you would be surprised how forward-thinking a lot of Chinese people are).

Don't tarnish all people because of their goverment. I mean, look at the farkwits we've produced.

[Flyer]

Just one question here Ziege who died and made you ''God'' that is the most disgraceful piece of posting i've ever read, not an ounce of compassion or thoughtfulness for a sole, you wouldn't be here or anywhere else if it wasn't for the older people, show some respect , i'm 66 yr old and don't want to check out until i have to if i can help it , i can't believe someone would say such a thing unless they were piss taking and if they were then they'd be arse holes , fella you want to get your thoughts in check and give a thought for people suffering from this virus and past virus's, you sound like a torn and twisted man with no compassion for fellow man or woman, and have little regard for factual figures as Flyer has pointed out so have a good life .

Actualy, Flutch died and made himself Ziege

[Ziege]

Um I said I was being very stoic and its good to see there's no shortage of triggered people. Shows that I am entirely correct in asserting that people here are speaking out of a mind fraught with paranoia, fear and emotion, we are ALL going to DIE, how and when is the only variable. I'm not going to dignify most of your reply with one in return as its so exceedingly obvious that most here are sucking on the TV teet. I also referred to Figures and Facts, Flyer is a troll, hence on the ignore list.... 66yo, that means by 70s standards your innings would be essentially at cusp of ending..... I'm in no way saying "hurry up and die you old fart" or anything else of the sort, but keep in mind that death is perfectly normal as a part of life, we are only now living in a time where people find it to be so foreboding and alien, in the past it was accepted as something that will come when it does despite its form or cause. Its a huge privilege to live longer than the average life expectancy and even a greater privilege to have high quality of life in that time, people are not perfect and our bodies are far from suited to living for long periods of time, that's without all the damage we put on them with out own choices outside of nature. you are still more statistically (globally) likely to die from that rough patch you went through years ago than you are to die from this virus, most of the people deceased as a result of contracting covid19 were those with comorbidity who had a short life expectancy at the time. you're all getting panicked over something that is in all likelihood going to be unavoidable anyway beyond your own personal choices, so if YOU want to live in fear and tucked away, then sure go for it, more power to you, but I am telling you this with the utmost assurity, the world and its economies and the mental well-being and productivity, can not and will not endure these lock-downs for much longer much less years, and a vaccine is highly unlikely to be a magic bullet if one appears at all. So sooner or later, people aren't going to be isolating, they aren't going to be ceasing social gatherings, they aren't going to be locking themselves away. if force is used to try and stop them, expect a lot of violence, as is the nature of man.

[bigrich]

Um I said I was being very stoic and its good to see there's no shortage of triggered people. Shows that I am entirely correct in asserting that people here are speaking out of a mind fraught with paranoia, fear and emotion, we are ALL going to DIE, how and when is the only variable. I'm not going to dignify most of your reply with one in return as its so exceedingly obvious that most here are sucking on the TV teet. I also referred to Figures and Facts, Flyer is a troll, hence on the ignore list.... 66yo, that means by 70s standards your innings would be essentially at cusp of ending..... I'm in no way saying "hurry up and die you old fart" or anything else of the sort, but keep in mind that death is perfectly normal as a part of life, we are only now living in a time where people find it to be so foreboding and alien, in the past it was accepted as something that will come when it does despite its form or cause. Its a huge privilege to live longer than the average life expectancy and even a greater privilege to have high quality of life in that time, people are not perfect and our bodies are far from suited to living for long periods of time, that's without all the damage we put on them with out own choices outside of nature. you are still more statistically (globally) likely to die from that rough patch you went through years ago than you are to die from this virus, most of the people deceased as a result of contracting covid19 were those with comorbidity who had a short life expectancy at the time. you're all getting panicked over something that is in all likelihood going to be unavoidable anyway beyond your own personal choices, so if YOU want to live in fear and tucked away, then sure go for it, more power to you, but I am telling you this with the utmost assurity, the world and its economies and the mental well-being and productivity, can not and will not endure these lock-downs for much longer much less years, and a vaccine is highly unlikely to be a magic bullet if one appears at all. So sooner or later, people aren't going to be isolating, they aren't going to be ceasing social gatherings, they aren't going to be locking themselves away. if force is used to try and stop them, expect a lot of violence, as is the nature of man.

quite a dark veiw of things mate . i'm far from scared or paranoid about death , but i'm in no hurry to rush to meet the grim reaper either . i make my decisions on facts ( after trying to sift through all the misinformation and internet experts ) , and follow a logical train of thought in my points of veiw . i don't stand fast in my point of veiws ,willing to play devils advocate for a opposite train of thought , always willing to hear new information , and if warranted modify my opinions to suit . again i'm going to assume your a younger man with such a cavileer veiw on life , and life expectancy

there wouldn't be a need for lockdown if people could do the right thing by their fellow citizens in isolating if their known to be infected . that's the reason for the lockdown , some folks are entittled and selfish when it comes to consideration for others . i think if anything the ones playing up during lockdown is showing how weak minded and soft some people are .

one final statement , "there's a fine line between brave and stupid " JMHO

[bigrich]

I care greatly but I guess Stoicism is lost on members here, the want and hope that people will stay locked indoors until a magical elixir is made is nothing more than a fantasy. People need to start being realistic, this bandaid knee jerk we are living with is never going to solve anything, it will simply string it out at the cost of literally everything... or are you all of the opinion that free money and free healthcare etc are all infinite resources in a worldwide recession? I am more shocked at the factual disconnect than any of you are by my brutal honesty.

yes , well , gotta give you that . you are brutally honest and in a healthy democratic country that's what's needed . where we are at in this country today isn't the end game . every day i see government and the australian people adjusting to the situation . i don't beleive in "free money", the debt the country is getting into is worrying . australia will carry on , we're in a better position than most .onward and upward

i think back to the posters during the london blitz "stay calm and carry on "

yours truly , "big rich churchill"

where's me friggin' cigar .....

[Ziege]

Im not being pessimistic at all, Im merely saying if your personal solution is isolation, then go for it, as for society its never going to work and is futile anyway. this is established in fact already.

Right there with you and the clay shooting, perhaps the medals and trophies will come in useful for more than bunnies and foxes after all lol.

I have optimism about the future, but not if we keep flogging the dead donkey in response to this virus.

[bigrich]

Im not being pessimistic at all, Im merely saying if your personal solution is isolation, then go for it, as for society its never going to work and is futile anyway. this is established in fact already.

Right there with you and the clay shooting, perhaps the medals and trophies will come in useful for more than bunnies and foxes after all lol.

I have optimism about the future, but not if we keep flogging the dead donkey in response to this virus.

the country and government are evolving to the virus situation , how they evolve is of concern to me. but precautions with health and social habits are needed , restriction of movement is essential during a pandemic .things can't stay the same unfortunately . as auntie pauline said we need to get on with it ,it's how we get on with it that's the question . we're a smart country , we'll work it out . but when you've got selfish people that know their infected running around spreading it , i don't mind the border lockdown cause i'm in queensland

it's what was done during the spanish flu of 1918 , i'm a keen historian . the lessons have already been learned , it's just that they've been forgotten

[Skinna]

Well ill stick my head out here & say i can see where he is coming from.
Its only natural to let our own beliefs add either a positive or negative weight to someone elses comments, that isnt necessarily meant or initially intended.

For perspective, do we all think that any given Govt dont see us individuals as large group statistics?. Id hazzard a guess that Ziege would care more for us than the majority of pollies do who are presently slugging away on their fancy shellfish, wagoo beef or grass fed lamb racks.

I wonder how many generations we are away from living the "Logans Run" metaphore. Anyone remember that movie.? Its the other version of 1984, but one that seems more chance of being a reality.

Bloody hell, now i see on the news the VicPol are getting immunity powers to fly drones & use footage for non-complying lock-down people.
The thing is, whilst there are issues with those who actually dont give a rats arse about anyone but themselves, there is also the other end of the spectrum to take into account that is happening before our eyes, & that is the oppression--meaning, as i understand it, the coppers there in Vic will legally be able to fly a drone & film you through your window, where they were required to have a warrant to do that.

Personally, i dont think the coppers should have the right to fly a drone over my back yard to see if i have one too many visitors there--i mean, what if im shagging the missus on the lawn or viewed by a female anti gun constable & mistaken for a serial killer because im skinning out & quartering up a fallow carcass under the verandah or carport, & end up with the anti terrorist squad in my yard?
Maybe thats a little dramatic, but hopefully you get the point, that being, deciphering Govt's actions as being either proactive, knee-jerk reactions, or planned oppression for power is getting blurred very quickly.

all good points skinna, i see the validity of a lot of zeige's points as well . "i'm a glass half full " outlook generally , which is why i'm debating with zeige's pessimistic outlook

i remember logans run . on the subject of drones and such , and AI militarised /terminator type stuff , look at a movie called "screamers" with robo cop actor petter weller .

with regards to vic pol using drones, i think for some clay shooting practice might come in handy

I was thinking that myself when i saw the report.

I wondered if they had 50 drones all out operating & intruding on peoples privacy. & they were all shot down within the hour, they would be having kittens

[mchughcb]

You know as I sit here in Covid Central suburb within Melbourne, over 50 and having my body compromised by lung cancer (touch wood recovered) and listening to people who are not affected by either the lockdowns or the virus complain about somebody under 50 wanting to live their life while they still have it makes me feel that the only ones who are selfish are the ones expecting everyone else that is healthy to stay locked up for infinity for their benefit.

What a sad world. I see literally thousands of children every day, can't go to school, locked up on apartments, allowed out for one hour a day in the local park, and its been raining down here. All their playgrounds are taped up. They are missing their school, their play, their friends. 23 hours locked in an apartment, can't even go shopping with mum. Poor little blighters.

[Ziege]

I,m ok with the facing ones mortality argument.
It’s just that there’s something between the lines that irks me. A sense set of defeatism and helplessness. An acceptance of fate.

f*** that. We can beat this thing. We will beat this thing. Mankind will overcome it. We will create our own destiny.
It is a test of our character and our spirit. As a species on the whole. And played out in real time by those that lead us.
We’ve seen some world leaders succumb to it. And we've seen others stand up to it. And varying degrees in between.

Victoria is fighting and we are winning. I don’t know how many rounds we will last. Maybe we will throw in the towel eventually.
We,re only just now being told it will be a long fight. Not just 6 weeks. It could last a year.
It will take great fortitude and resolve to fight for so long without respite.
But from what I,ve seen so far in Victoria’s leadership and all state and national government. We’re doing it.

Ps, I still hate China

Not defeatist at all, I'm merely saying society is going to have to get back to it, those at risk as always are free to protect themselves and their interests, and those who are custodians of at risk people should do the same, but with no vaccine (there has never ever been one for this kind of virus despite repeated efforts many times over) and a fleeting herd immunity, its not logical to continue to force everyone to stay locked up, especially with the huge disparity between those who it affects and those it doesn't.

The nation and industry within cannot survive the constant upheaval and like it or not you're a lot worse off in every way if the pot runs dry. virus and all.

so hopes, dreams, wants and prayers aside, the objective thing to do is get back to being prosperous before we are too far down the sh!tter financially. its bad enough already, im telling you now, australians are not prepared for worse.

[Ziege]

You know as I sit here in Covid Central suburb within Melbourne, over 50 and having my body compromised by lung cancer (touch wood recovered) and listening to people who are not affected by either the lockdowns or the virus complain about somebody under 50 wanting to live their life while they still have it makes me feel that the only ones who are selfish are the ones expecting everyone else that is healthy to stay locked up for infinity for their benefit.

What a sad world. I see literally thousands of children every day, can't go to school, locked up on apartments, allowed out for one hour a day in the local park, and its been raining down here. All their playgrounds are taped up. They are missing their school, their play, their friends. 23 hours locked in an apartment, can't even go shopping with mum. Poor little blighters.

Precisely, someone gets it.

as i said in the last reply i made to someone, its impossible to go on forever in lockdowns, those vulnerable should be isolated more than others, but then that should be their choice. the play must go on, and people need to continue to work and be prosperous.

and not to mention the mental health issues from repeated lockdowns and isolation, suicide is at an all time high across the globe now... and its because of the knee jerk responses.

[wanneroo]

in the end... there is already an alarming amount of the population that has already had this virus and has no idea that they have. as is the case world wide. clusters are only found when someone get either symptoms at all, or most commonly severe symptoms and then again they are in a very small minority of people, as for scarring and permanent damage, almost everything we catch and suffer leaves its mark, you start young and clean and you die old and dirty, no one gets healthier as they get older, everyone dies with comorbidity issues. trying to avoid it is madness. I feel you but trying to avoid things is really just futility on the grand scale, let individuals be shut ins if they want, but everyone has forgotten that the average mortality age for this virus is 82yo and just as much as 20 years ago total life expectancy was 70yo, and 20 years before that it was 66yo, so in 40 years people have bought just shy of 15 years more lifespan on average. so factoring that in the VAST majority of those dying from the virus would have expired 15 years ago by 1970s standards. take it back 20 years before that and it gets even more alarming. so really i appreciate people being scared for their health, but instead how about appreciating that any health issue you have in this day and age, would have likely already led to your demise a few decades ago. I'm being very stoic and cold logically here but complaining about living on borrowed time as many of us are (cancer survivors, people on dialysis, COPD, diabetics, heart congestion etc etc etc) it seems that we have been so cuddled up on the pillow of modern medicine (which compared to most human existence is in its fragile infancy) that we have lost all perspective that death is a far forgotten reality for many.

Yes I think people have been wrapped in fluffy pillows to the reality of the world for a while.

There are a lot of people alive today that without modern medicine they would have died.

Hopefully Covid 1984 has woken up people to the reality that you're gonna die, probably sooner than later as you age and at some point no amount of medicine or treatment will change that fact.

[JimmyS]

Ziege - you are 100% on the money + mchughcb, I admire your outlook on life, selfless is a word that comes to mind.

Sad that some do not understand what is happening right in front of them, maybe one day they will see, but also maybe never.
Fingers crossed that we are free of being part time prisoners sooner rather than later!

[wanneroo]

sadly in the modern facebook/internet brainwashed australia , the common cry amongst a lot of people is "i'm alright so f#ck everybody else . so what if some oldies die a bit sooner " some of those oldies built and served this country to make it what it is today . to give the younger generations a country of easy living and opportunites that are the envy of the rest of the world . quite a few of the members on this forum are older than 50.....i don't want to hear about anyone on here pegging out early cause the virus finished them off

just a total lack of compassion and empathy by some . shame , shame , shame

JMHO

It's not a lack of compassion, it's just reality that everybody is going to die someday. You talk of what the older generations gave the younger ones. Well then you have to let them live that life then and we can't stay indefinitely locked up in lockdown, having our finances imploded, bills pilled up, jobs lost, businesses closed, not to mention all the tyrannical government going on. That seems pretty brutal and selfish of 100 year old people to demand that of young people. Talk about a total lack of compassion and empathy.

[marksman]

anyone watch the 4 corners show?

not that it was enlightening really, everything on it has been reported before by several different leaning sources,
and all of them, all of them have said the same thing, all of them

now we wait for the inquiry's reports, but we know what that is going to conclude dont we

[wanneroo]

Sure a 60 year old with diabetes who dies of cronavirus, covid is not to blame 100%... but the fact you are failing to see is that if there was no cronavirus he probably live to 70 or 75 or even 80+.

I have an aunt who has bought into all the fear and hysteria and panic from the media. She does what the news tells her to do and never questions anything.

So her and her husband have only left the house once in six months, their son brings them food and supplies. They just sit at home eating, watching the fear and loathing on TV and getting fatter. My uncle apparently can hardly move anymore.

She was telling me on the phone all this hysterical stuff about the virus and how deadly it is and if they go out of their house the virus will hunt them down and kill them like a homicidal vampire. My response was that if you keep staying at home eating you will die from heart disease, cancer, diabetus or a home accident, 25K Americans die a year in falls and thousands in other home accidents.

So that 60 year diabetus patient that you saved from coronavirus could step out on the street and get run over by a bus.

Also you do not seem aware but humans have been living with corona viruses for probably ten thousand years. They were first identified in 1965 and there are many of them. We've dealt with SARS and MERS in the past twenty years and you also seem unaware the Chinese bats also have SARS 3 and 4 and other SARS viruses that are ready to jump to humans. If the Chicoms keep playing with bats, that day will come.

[wanneroo]

there wouldn't be a need for lockdown if people could do the right thing by their fellow citizens in isolating if their known to be infected . that's the reason for the lockdown , some folks are entittled and selfish when it comes to consideration for others . i think if anything the ones playing up during lockdown is showing how weak minded and soft some people are .

What have lockdowns done but spread the virus? Without extensive testing, you put people with the virus in with people without it for 24 hours a day and those healthy people get it. As we have seen in Victoria, all the lockdown did was spread it.

A lockdown will work with a couple of people but it's too late now, it's everywhere.

People have to stop worshiping these false idols of security theatre, it's leading them nowhere. Clearly a lot of people feel if they just OBEY and worship these false idols they will be safe but all that is just a cover for tyrannical government.

A great depression will NEVER cure the virus, ever.

[wanneroo]

sigh, if only people could learn to separate their idealism and prejudicial thinking before commenting..... at no point have I advocated for death of anyone, I've merely stated that its inevitable that some will die from it, just as much as some will die from any other cause of death, in fact it is more likely you will die from something else.

This foreboding end of the world paranoia everyone has is getting tiresome.

Wisdom? hiding out indefinitely from a boogeyman is wisdom? I must be missing something here...

I give up with the boomer generation, too much TV babysitting and newspapers during morning coffee have eroded the psyche. I am only trailing behind by a scratch as a GEN X'er and the divide is galactic, I fail to see how any paranoia and fear and overt control is going to help. people will never remain controlled, so trying that is futile, and fear and paranoia are irrational as they never assist in helpful and constructive choices or works.

fearing your own mortality is something everyone faces, its not the fault of others or nature, its something everyone has to confront once at least in their life. its coming virus or no virus.

anyone taking anything negative from my comments clearly doesn't understand a thing I've written. Or they have been triggered into their emotional state of mind, not rational mind.

Well said. I think unfortunately a lot of people take their programming from the TV and are so plugged into the Matrix that any sort of rational reason will never work and they will fight to keep you from unplugging them from the Matrix. It's clear that some people have been convinced if they surrender their freedom, give up their job, get locked up in their home indefinitely, that the virus will benevolently spare them. It's like the Russian Revolution where people convinced themselves if they gave up their guns, private property and freedom they would be spared but all they got was the gulag or the firing squad.

The reality is that for the vast, vast majority of people that actually get the virus, they hardly notice it or it feels like a bad cold. A small percentage need outpatient treatment and an even smaller percentage of that need inpatient medical care and a small fraction of those people die, as statistics show over 50% with 3 or more comorbidities and average age of death being 78-82, inline with modern life expectancy.

So what I am seeing is an outrageous amount of hysteria and emotion along with tyrannical government that is not proportionate to what the virus is and does. I think many people and their governments have just simply lost their mind this year. But it shows to me just how easy it is to control people with the media and that is more scary that the virus.

[wanneroo]

Victoria is fighting and we are winning. I don’t know how many rounds we will last. Maybe we will throw in the towel eventually.
We,re only just now being told it will be a long fight. Not just 6 weeks. It could last a year.
It will take great fortitude and resolve to fight for so long without respite.
But from what I,ve seen so far in Victoria’s leadership and all state and national government. We’re doing it.

Ps, I still hate China

I thought it was just two weeks to "flatten the curve"

Now it's six weeks and then a year, probably a few years.

How successful has Australia been keeping the flu out?

Unless you are planning on shutting down the borders forever, you will always deal with Covid 1984, it's a part of the human condition now.

If any politician or news media person tells you otherwise they are lying so you will chug down that tyranny without question.

[wanneroo]

https://www.dailywire.com/news/lasting- ... udies-find

Could it be that lasting immunity develops after you have Covid 1984? Maybe so, some researchers say.

[Flyer]

It's a pretty simple choice.

You try to slow the disease and buy yourself time so that your healthcare system can cope – and in countries where this has happened the death toll has been lower – or you let the rapid increase in infections overwhelm your healthcare system to the point where doctors have to make life and death decisions by turning away 60-year-olds to admit 40-year-olds because they don't have enough beds, staff or respirators.

It all comes down to logistics.

[mchughcb]

Well not just logistics. What has been also found is treatments that are proving more effective more effective.
So just slapping a ventilator on you may actually make the situation worse.

Also whilst governments especially the Victorian government and media love to tell you this is not an old person's disease every press conference the recorded ages say it is.

Why cannot they be honest.

[Flyer]

The only reason medics around the world now know that some treatments are more effective than others is that they have had time to treat people and study the disease. Late-comers such as Australia will benefit from the unfortunate experiences of countries like Italy and the US. We have bought ourselves time, and that is likely to prove very valuable as we now face the incoming tide.

Pretty much all comminicable diseases are "old person's diseases" if you want to look at mortality rates. An old person's immune system – on average – is going to be more compromised than a young person's. That's pretty obvious. Of course there will also be exceptions, including younger people with pre-existing conditions.

Honsestly, if anyone is saying it's not just an old person's disease, then they're only saying it to drum some sense into younger generations who think they're immune, or simply don't care about passing it on to others who might be more compromised.

[womble]

Victoria is fighting and we are winning. I don’t know how many rounds we will last. Maybe we will throw in the towel eventually.
We,re only just now being told it will be a long fight. Not just 6 weeks. It could last a year.
It will take great fortitude and resolve to fight for so long without respite.
But from what I,ve seen so far in Victoria’s leadership and all state and national government. We’re doing it.

Ps, I still hate China

I thought it was just two weeks to "flatten the curve"

Now it's six weeks and then a year, probably a few years.

How successful has Australia been keeping the flu out?

Unless you are planning on shutting down the borders forever, you will always deal with Covid 1984, it's a part of the human condition now.

If any politician or news media person tells you otherwise they are lying so you will chug down that tyranny without question.

I,d say a year before immunisation. We won’t use a vaccine without ethical standards we’ll probably use the Oxford one.
A year I can do. I’ve been in institutions for longer. Feel free to judge, zero f***s given.
Patience is a virtue I’ve learnt the hard way.
We’re all free to believe our own truths, but the whole new world order/ oppressive tyranny spiel is pretty transparent. It,s just corporations and ceo,s trying to ensure the super rich hold all the money.
I can see why they would, because when government runs out of money, they’re next. But It does get tiring when some people keep rolling that bulls**t out..
To some degree they do influence government policy here. But they don’t have total power like the US
Most of us here don’t have much money to protect. So once again, Behold the field where I grow my f***s and see that it is barren.

Further points indirectly,
Don’t so easilly discount our youth as selfish and without empathy for their elders.
Look to Italy for inspiration. Despite huge casualties they never gave up and see where they are now.
Look to NZ. Totally badass.

When the going gets tough we will show you our true colours.

[wanneroo]

Well not just logistics. What has been also found is treatments that are proving more effective more effective.
So just slapping a ventilator on you may actually make the situation worse.

Also whilst governments especially the Victorian government and media love to tell you this is not an old person's disease every press conference the recorded ages say it is.

Why cannot they be honest.

Why can't they be honest, well, how many honest politicians are there?

The success rate with ventilators was not that great and my understanding was getting people off the ventilators that was part of the problem.

CDC data in the USA shows the big "second wave" of cases in southern states during the summer that we didn't see the death rate we did in late winter.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covi ... /index.htm

Could be numerous factors but as I pointed out before in the thread, doctors have numerous options now for treatment and perhaps the virus has weakened.

I notice in the media the constant of barrage of we have X amount of new cases a day has died out because the virus is flatlining so now to keep the hysteria going I'm seeing articles like "100 health ailments Covid will give you" and "You'll be permanently scarred for life, be scared, obey" and "Sharon Stone says non mask wearers should die a painful death" .

I was out on the rails to trails today, we have a beautiful bike trail that goes through a wooded canyon nearby and I was out in the woods on the trail, miles from any civilization and this woman comes by on her bike with a mask on.

[Bugman]

Gotta agree with bigrich.
I am switched off with this one too.