supposedly we are "rolling with the punches"

[Grandadbushy]

mchughcb mate nobody especially myself have said that doing the right thing is perfect or everything will go away , but it would help don't you think? as far as doctors and nurses getting it well they're on the front line 24/7 and a high risk for infection even with protection this is common knowledge in medical circles and as for soccer mums whining well i don't know about that but i think that's a different discussion totally separate from finding a safe method of fighting this virus, as far as unreported cases in some areas and individual cases ,you will have to understand where the media is concerned a lot of important stuff is left out and a lot of unimportant stuff takes it's place and as far as the rich soccer mums and wives well you'll have to take it up with them but they are entitled to their opinions same as you and i are and we should respect each others opinion , i do understand where you are coming from with your opinion but unfortunately i don't totally agree with it but it is not a silly opinion we have to look at all aspects of the situation and hopefully find an outcome to suite us all

[wanneroo]

Jetstar have just confirmed a CV positive case was on board from Sydney to QLD...trying to track all 149 passengers now...I don’t see how “normal” life can align with a complete eradication - it’s just not feasible.

That's just the thing, lets say after six weeks of a brutal lockdown in Victoria, they eradicate the virus. All it will take is one person to start the whole thing over again. Based on what I know, SARS 2 is going to be part of the human existence for all time, much like other coronaviruses.

[wanneroo]

Yes mchughcb mate it's gonna be tough but it's all we got for now i agree we can't do this forever ,BUT it hasn't helped by people doing the wrong thing, and no we don't have a war but it affects the economy and people similar, most governments end up broke after wars and this could be similar, as far as isolation goes yes i do keep clear from others with virus's or if i've got the flu we live miles from most people so it's not a problem for us and as far as complaining and we aren't under martial law well you have to wonder why they are under martial law is it because they didn't do the right thing in the first place, it's easy to blame the government for most of this but people have to take some of the blame especially those that flaunt the rules. up here we've been lucky so far because our Premier didn't bow to pressure from the other states and open the borders and look at their situation, you are right about this not being able to be kept up and i have no doubt if things don't move to the better, things will change and governments will try and adapt to other ideas but for now lets not condemn everything that has been done because it's been a learning curve for us all and lets hope something gives soon so we all can resume as normal a life as possible

I think it's easy for a lot of people depending on their circumstances to say hey lock down indefinitely. They might have their pension or be financially set, but a lot of people out there are losing their job or business and it's destroying the economy. Based on the statistics I don't think the government solution is worth it either short term or long term. I think you are making an assumption the government people know what they are doing.

[wanneroo]

There is some assumption that do the right thing and everybody will be okay. I hear that every day from people.

However when I look at the clusters of community transmission they are now over 80% at work or where people live. So Meatworks, warehouses, hospitals and aged care. When I see people who are infected, like doctors, nurses, medical staff, old pensioners, and police I start to think well if "they" are doing the "right" stuff and still getting infected then what?

The continue deflection by the Government and their media sycophants onto punters walking around the Tan because she got sick of walking around Brighton, the guy that ordered an indian takeaway in the city, the guy that ate McDonalds in Albury. So few newsworthy cases and not one of them was transmitting anything, but we have outbreaks of hundreds at meatworks, aged care, schools, ethnic homes after religious festivals and hospitals. Apart from the last place, we don't hear how many of those recovered. All we get every day is another briefing of the nameless people with an average age of 80 passed away. We don't even hear if they were compromised health already.

Then we have the extremely intelligent soccer mums living off welfare who say stage 4 is state of disaster is not enough. We need house arrest. And they aren't kidding.

For all the other states who think this self inflicted over reaction won't happen to them watch this space. You can't see it, every person you see could be symptomatic and the virus can last for days on surfaces.

To help everyone out and understand how long the virus will live on different surfaces and in the air, the US Dept of Homeland Security bio lab did testing on the virus:

https://www.scribd.com/document/4568976 ... from_embed

The virus loves no UV light, poor circulation or exchange of air and stable environments. Bright summer sunlight will inactivate it in 2 minutes. In a dark room with no air circulation it can stay active for almost 20 hours. This testing highlights why the virus likes meat packing plants, old folks homes and similar environments where there are a lot of people in cool air, poor air circulation and little natural light.

The report doesn't take long to read and I encourage folks to read it as it will help explain how to minimize the chance of getting the virus and knowing what environments it likes and doesn't like.

Also here is another study done recently with similar findings:

https://academic.oup.com/jid/article/222/4/564/5856149

[mchughcb]

Thanks Wanneroo. That is very interesting.

[womble]

You are probably right Waneroo. It may be too late to reel it back in now. Could have killed it earlier like New Zealand did, but they knew where it was.
But i think Singapore managed to reel it back when they were in about our position.
Anyway, looks like Victoria has chosen to put up a fight. The winner decides Australia’s future. So the pressure is enormous.
Honestly, we all have to trust what they’re telling us and fight together. If you’re not a team player our side will lose.
We’re getting the best advice available.
I know it sounds gay but we’re all in in this together.
So f*** it, we’re not going down without a fight. Have some faith. Believe in us.
Australia, f*** yeah c***

[Grandadbushy]

Wanneroo mate i'm not making assumptions at all i'm hoping they have at least got some of it right because at the moment most of it is trial and error , yes people have botched it in some areas at times but who hasn't but if the government or medical people were to act on every bit of hypothetical information brought up on the media or from many that think that they have a science or medical degree or more of an idea than the professionals who are trying to cope and learn about this virus then i reckon we would be in a far worse position than we are now, everybody keeps going on about all the other virus's prior to this one that presumably they were far greater than this one well mate they have run their race and showed their capabilities this one hasn't it's still going , we don't know what the after effects are going to be , we don't know if those that have had it will have long term effects from it , it has been stated some will so i don't see how all these people can ''assume'' that this virus is nothing, there will be more deaths, more conjecture, more BS media, more false information on virus statistics , more people thinking they have all the answers but at the end of the day we can be thankful there are some out there that get on with the job of helping and trying to control this virus and they're the people i listen to and admire not any media or person on google or the like

[wanneroo]

Wanneroo mate i'm not making assumptions at all i'm hoping they have at least got some of it right because at the moment most of it is trial and error , yes people have botched it in some areas at times but who hasn't but if the government or medical people were to act on every bit of hypothetical information brought up on the media or from many that think that they have a science or medical degree or more of an idea than the professionals who are trying to cope and learn about this virus then i reckon we would be in a far worse position than we are now, everybody keeps going on about all the other virus's prior to this one that presumably they were far greater than this one well mate they have run their race and showed their capabilities this one hasn't it's still going , we don't know what the after effects are going to be , we don't know if those that have had it will have long term effects from it , it has been stated some will so i don't see how all these people can ''assume'' that this virus is nothing, there will be more deaths, more conjecture, more BS media, more false information on virus statistics , more people thinking they have all the answers but at the end of the day we can be thankful there are some out there that get on with the job of helping and trying to control this virus and they're the people i listen to and admire not any media or person on google or the like

The virus is similar to SARS and MERS, so it's not that much of a mystery.

I think there are two things to remember.

1. They call TV programming just that for a reason, it is programming you. Anything that is said on tv or in the main media I would approach with caution. In the end media makes their money on hysteria, so the longer they keep you hysterical, the more power and money they accumulate. Even tv commercials these days are not just about selling a product or service, often they have a social agenda to program you with as well.

2. I wouldn't listen or trust politicians either. Most politicians like the leader of Victoria are worthless toads that couldn't get a job elsewhere. In fact the Premier of Victoria has never had a real job in the private sector, he's always been working in politics from the time he graduated uni. What the hell does he know about anything?

[womble]

To his credit he doesn’t claim to know anything about anything. Always outsources expertise.
If our best health services people ask for anything, they’ll get it.
Same as he’s done with the police force in the past.
I criticised him earlier for not being decisive himself, but essentially all decisions are being taken from real time feedback from people in the field and on the ground.
Unusual style of management for sure.. perhaps grants him solid excuses to fall back on.. perhaps shares the burden of responsibility.
Whatever, I’m down with it.

[Grandadbushy]

Wanneroo mate i never said there was a mystery, i said it was an unknown thus far and i'm not interested in political views or media or who i should trust or calling politicians names they will roll at the polls if they stuff it up i'm talking what we do now from here on in and what advice can be taken for now and i believe tried and chosen experiences are the way to go for now, but people can choose for themselves but when a rule is put in place by government or medical teams then no person should dismiss that rule unless going through the right process. So mate seeing as you know so much about these politicians and such and their careers and their short falls, where do you get your information about this ? From the media, books, google and the likes, all those that are not to be trusted i presume, also if this virus is no mystery then why all the mixed messages from all corners of people concerned ? ''Mystery'' is not dangerous but unsolved, ''Unknown'' can be dangerous but not yet been solved big difference.

[TassieTiger]

Those links are really interesting wannaeroo.

I’ve heard on some podcasts (Rogan with virologist guests) that there are now various strains and there is concern that a USA based vaccine would not necessarily be effective against a Aust virus or Indian virus...

[Oldbloke]

The covid19 is a variation of the common cold. For donkey years researchers have been trying to develop a vaccine.

It will be a miracle if one is developed in the next 18 months. So, get used to it.

[Grandadbushy]

oldbloke +1

[TassieTiger]

So does that mean the common cold is the same strain in every country? If you travel (hic) to India and get their strain - how do you fare?

[Oldbloke]

So does that mean the common cold is the same strain in every country? If you travel (hic) to India and get their strain - how do you fare?

Might be corrected here. But my understanding is it changes/evolves continuously and that's why we keep catching it every year or so. But the covid may not evolve, we just don't know yet.

[mchughcb]

Well another 400+ today and the view is well if its still too high another 6 weeks on top of the 6 weeks and we go to stage 5.

I'm starting to think that it should go to stage 5, Country Vic goes stage 4 and NSW goes stage 4.

Not that it will make one ounce of difference but when soccer mums see their welfare cut, their husbands out of work and the kids are at home screaming their heads off because they are locked up 23 hours per day then people are going to get the message they can't live like this for ever.

https://youtu.be/MRuS3dxKK9U

[Bill]

Chuck can you explain what stage 5 is ? because I wasnt aware that it actually exists.

Lets see what happens with numbers after 2 -3 weeks.

I'm not sure why NSW is allowing Victorians to fly in, sorta seems bloody stupid

[marksman]

The covid19 is a variation of the common cold. For donkey years researchers have been trying to develop a vaccine.

It will be a miracle if one is developed in the next 18 months. So, get used to it.

l think l'm having a little bit of trouble understanding what you mean OB
are you saying "So, get used to it" to the virus so you think we should just completely open up and whatever happens, happens

get it over with, goodbye nanna and grandpa

l also think there can be a very big difference between the common cold and the virus, l'm just scratching my head
that's the first time l've heard that comparison

viruses evolve by mutating, that is, there are changes in their genetic code over time, for the virus, there has been a global initiative to share viral genomes with all scientists, given a collection of sequences with sample dates, scientists can infer the evolutionary history of the samples in real-time and use the information to infer the history of transmissions
it is widely known that the virus has mutated and will keep evolving so what Tassie is saying he heard is plausible
what you are saying sounds a bit ignorant or uninformed so maybe it would be an idea to listen to what others are saying because they may have heard something that you haven't that is worth listening to, they may be wrong but they may not be
who knows, what would it hurt

[marksman]

Well another 400+ today and the view is well if its still too high another 6 weeks on top of the 6 weeks and we go to stage 5.

I'm starting to think that it should go to stage 5, Country Vic goes stage 4 and NSW goes stage 4.

Not that it will make one ounce of difference but when soccer mums see their welfare cut, their husbands out of work and the kids are at home screaming their heads off because they are locked up 23 hours per day then people are going to get the message they can't live like this for ever.

https://youtu.be/MRuS3dxKK9U

l like the vid chuck "l am as mad as hell and l'm not going to take it anymore"

[boingk]

The covid19 is a variation of the common cold. For donkey years researchers have been trying to develop a vaccine.

It will be a miracle if one is developed in the next 18 months. So, get used to it.

This times a million.

Seriously, if things really go down the gurgler (unlikely but whatever I can dream) then blokes like myself (and I imagine many of us on here) will be kings of the wasteland.

Hell, I can build a house, engine, firearm, ammunition, as well as hunt and cook food and grow grops and make alcohol. What more could you possibly ask for?

- boingk

[Oldbloke]

Just saying they are both in the same "family" of viruses. And evolving, or mutating if you like.

Hard to develop a vaccine, near impossible. The flu changes more or less annually. So, new vaccine needed every year.

They never developed a vaccine for HIV but now have drugs to manage it. That could be an option.

If we "let it rip" the the system will not cope1000s will die that don't need to. Not an option.

People tend to think "it wont happen to me", Im different, Im bullet proof. Well take it from me, it all changes when it gets personal and effects them or a close family member. Then it become safety, safety safety. There is an old saying. "Pain teaches"

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/general ... ation.html

[Oldbloke]

To his credit he doesn’t claim to know anything about anything. Always outsources expertise.
If our best health services people ask for anything, they’ll get it.
Same as he’s done with the police force in the past.
I criticised him earlier for not being decisive himself, but essentially all decisions are being taken from real time feedback from people in the field and on the ground.
Unusual style of management for sure.. perhaps grants him solid excuses to fall back on.. perhaps shares the burden of responsibility.
Whatever, I’m down with it.

He doing a good job in very difficult cercumstances. He's determined to beat it, and we need him to. And just do as we are asked.

[trekin]

One is left wondering what percentage of the daily numbers in Vic are fasle positives? The test packages in use in Aust are only about 85% accurate under ideal conditions to begin with, the shear number of tests, the need for quick results and how those results are interpreted would be lowering that accuracy rate even lower.

[wanneroo]

Those links are really interesting wannaeroo.

I’ve heard on some podcasts (Rogan with virologist guests) that there are now various strains and there is concern that a USA based vaccine would not necessarily be effective against a Aust virus or Indian virus...

Well with the world shut down it's quite possible the virus will develop on it's own independently so a year from now the virus in all these different spots could be different enough that one single vaccine might not work.

[wanneroo]

Well another 400+ today and the view is well if its still too high another 6 weeks on top of the 6 weeks and we go to stage 5.

I'm starting to think that it should go to stage 5, Country Vic goes stage 4 and NSW goes stage 4.

Not that it will make one ounce of difference but when soccer mums see their welfare cut, their husbands out of work and the kids are at home screaming their heads off because they are locked up 23 hours per day then people are going to get the message they can't live like this for ever.

https://youtu.be/MRuS3dxKK9U

Stage 5 must be the North Korean death camp "stage".

All this reminds me of the Vietnamese village that was bombed to the bits in the war and the PR guy is standing there saying we had to destroy the village to save it.

[trekin]

Those links are really interesting wannaeroo.

I’ve heard on some podcasts (Rogan with virologist guests) that there are now various strains and there is concern that a USA based vaccine would not necessarily be effective against a Aust virus or Indian virus...

Well with the world shut down it's quite possible the virus will develop on it's own independently so a year from now the virus in all these different spots could be different enough that one single vaccine might not work.

Which is excatly what happens with the flu. Here in Aust, the health dept looks at the five worst strains of the flu virus doing the rounds in the northern hemisphere's flu season and tweak the vacine to suit for us. Most countries do the same. Once a baseline is developed for a vacine it is easly tweaked to work on the lastest strain of whatever virus the vacine was developed for. This is one of the reasons why the flu vacine is only 40-60% effective, predicting which of the five strains will make there way into the country. For example, last years flu season here was boarder line horrendous (actual classification) even though just over 50% of the population had their flu shots, this is because there was a strain of an unknown, virulent flu like virus that came in, quite possibly, and I believe, a strain of this same virus hitting us now.

[mchughcb]

Chuck can you explain what stage 5 is ? because I wasnt aware that it actually exists.

Lets see what happens with numbers after 2 -3 weeks.

I'm not sure why NSW is allowing Victorians to fly in, sorta seems bloody stupid

Well government won't say it but according to Paul Murray, university professors are saying the following.

Now a work mate has a son working in Columbia and this is pretty much what they have.

https://youtu.be/2-fpjg9YuRA.

[on_one_wheel]

Plenty of Australians don't seem to be taking it seriously, some think it's not even real.
Meanwhile, they're digging mass graves in New York to cope with the death toll.
It's been killing aprox 5000 people per day worldwide for the last 3 months.

file-20200421-82672-9j0lht.jpg (84.41 KiB) Viewed 3397 times

[marksman]

l have to say l do not see any people not taking it seriously, l have heard from very good personal sources that there are companies who are not toeing the line eg... aged care and the building trade but still the workers are very aware that there bosses are doing the wrong thing and do complain
or is that just having a winge and they should just do as they are told

Dandemic and his clowns not taking responsibility or accountability for their actions, but telling Victorians they have to be responsible or risk stage 5
he and his staff got a pay rise but Victorians will lose everything, Dandemic gets $441,000 annually, what do we pay him for?
we are not obliged to silently tolerate repugnant things, IMHO speaking out is a good thing even if its considered a winge

then we have the tuesday herald sun front page "taking the mikakos" labeled a shameful disgrace

"The Health Minister avoided seven questions at Tuesday’s legislative Council question time by saying she would provide a written answer the following day.
Ms Mikakos would have been aware of the type of questions she would be required to answer in the Victorian Parliament and should have been prepared to answer for her government’s mismanagement of the bungled quarantine program"

called a "sickening parlement performance" and smugley would not answer a single question about the bungled quarantine or CCP virus response
this is our leadership and l am just whinging

[mchughcb]

Plenty of Australians don't seem to be taking it seriously, some think it's not even real.
Meanwhile, they're digging mass graves in New York to cope with the death toll.
It's been killing aprox 5000 people per day worldwide for the last 3 months.

file-20200421-82672-9j0lht.jpg

So a candian lawyer explains that they normally bury people for the last several decades there as there are a lot of paupers and homeless. So put it down to media manipulation.

https://youtu.be/0tr8-2WRoGU