Australian Citizen Call to Arms

[Member-Deleted]

Most people under 30 use guns regularly on their bloody x-boxes etc. Culture has changed and we can't stop that. We need to make our sport/hobby/passion more transparent and less scary to the ignorant, and uninformed. What happened to common sense?
But I will speak out, most women fear guns. It's a fact. And who do you see in overwhelming numbers at XR, climate and BLM protests in Australia? Not being sexist but just an observation I have made. My wife is ok with this and believes I'm right. No amount of squirrels tears and unicorn vapour will change my mind.

I agree with you mate 100%, a lot of these agendas are pushed in schools from primary to university. Maybe an organisation could have a focus on youth and young people where they go to different schools (probably start with rural schools) and promote gun safety and how to handle firearms with care and then set up an excursion activity for school athletics/olympics or something, archery could be involved too. Then if a solid footing is set up, the organisation could push towards the suburbs and the city.

[Grandadbushy]

Back in my day all young fellas got an education in guns from their father or grandfather also we used to have shooting comps at the end of each term, fathers and family used to help see all went well , if you breeched a safety rule like looking down a barrel , then you had points taken off of your record and that to the school was like having teeth pulled , and then came the self loving do- gooders and the kids lost the comps, the rifles and something they loved, i can't ever remember any accidents with guns or accidental discharges, then came gun laws and the loss of our innocence

[Member-Deleted]

Back in my day all young fellas got an education in guns from their father or grandfather also we used to have shooting comps at the end of each term, fathers and family used to help see all went well , if you breeched a safety rule like looking down a barrel , then you had points taken off of your record and that to the school was like having teeth pulled , and then came the self loving do- gooders and the kids lost the comps, the rifles and something they loved, i can't ever remember any accidents with guns or accidental discharges, then came gun laws and the loss of our innocence

Hmmm... Schools tend to have javelins and archery gear... perhaps we could convince schools to start an extracurricular shooting team? Starting with .22's or air rifles/pistols?

[bladeracer]

Back in my day all young fellas got an education in guns from their father or grandfather also we used to have shooting comps at the end of each term, fathers and family used to help see all went well , if you breeched a safety rule like looking down a barrel , then you had points taken off of your record and that to the school was like having teeth pulled , and then came the self loving do- gooders and the kids lost the comps, the rifles and something they loved, i can't ever remember any accidents with guns or accidental discharges, then came gun laws and the loss of our innocence

Hmmm... Schools tend to have javelins and archery gear... perhaps we could convince schools to start an extracurricular shooting team? Starting with .22's or air rifles/pistols?

Early 80's I was shooting smallbore competition on the school oval in the middle of South Perth.
I was also shooting air-rifle competition (had a firearm licence and owned my own rifle) at Police & Citizens Youth Club in Kensington.

[Grandadbushy]

well BangWhizzClack in the little country school that i went to used .22 single shot rifles, 2 rifles for 6 kids, if i remember we only had 19 kids at shooting age which was grade 5 and over which was approx 12 yr olds and over But god forbid today

[Member-Deleted]

Early 80's I was shooting smallbore competition on the school oval in the middle of South Perth.
I was also shooting air-rifle competition had a firearm licence and owned my own rifle) at Police & Citizens Youth Club in Kensington.[/quote]

I'm sure SSAA or other organisations would be willing to pitch in to get some buildings and such put in for these competitions. The kids wouldn't need licences but should they wish to get them once they are old enough we could make an easy path for them, and anybody that showed commitment and talent could have the licence paid for and have a decent rifle/pistol bought for them? Along with coaching.

[Member-Deleted]

well BangWhizzClack in the little country school that i went to used .22 single shot rifles, 2 rifles for 6 kids, if i remember we only had 19 kids at shooting age which was grade 5 and over which was approx 12 yr olds and over But god forbid today

I might be just being optimistic but I reckon with a bit of commitment we could get it organised to have a similar opportunity.

[AZZA'S HJ47]

I left primary school in 1999 and left high school in 2004. It was already drummed into your head that if you owned a gun you were a criminal. I remember in grade two the police comming out and fingerprinting everyone and for the record those papers weren't given back to us. (I have friends that will still tell you the same story.) I remember PA being on the news and general thought process behind firearms charging significantly. Not alot has changed and from what I've heard from a partners child after taking her shooting for the first time anything "firearms" related is a no no.

I made a comment at high school about perhaps making target shooting a Wednesday spoorting event being interested and at that point in time haveing never fired a gun, however it got knocked on the head quicker than i brought the subject up.

Look i believe that the ssaa could get something like this off the ground however given their current lack luster attitude to get anything done i feel that is beyond them.

Just my 2c

[Grandadbushy]

Yes AZZA i think it's a bridge too far now but it would be nice to see the SSAA or any other party for that matter do something constructive on this matter

[AZZA'S HJ47]

Id just like to see the ssaa do something were all here just feeling jaded by the lack luster way thet they decide to apply themselves.

To date and look im only a new commer to the sport ive been doiing this since 2015 i cant see anything positive that they have done. No advocacy for anything they just seem to be sitting back just taking the cuts as they come.

[Member-Deleted]

I left primary school in 1999 and left high school in 2004. It was already drummed into your head that if you owned a gun you were a criminal. I remember in grade two the police comming out and fingerprinting everyone and for the record those papers weren't given back to us. (I have friends that will still tell you the same story.) I remember PA being on the news and general thought process behind firearms charging significantly. Not alot has changed and from what I've heard from a partners child after taking her shooting for the first time anything "firearms" related is a no no.

I made a comment at high school about perhaps making target shooting a Wednesday spoorting event being interested and at that point in time haveing never fired a gun, however it got knocked on the head quicker than i brought the subject up.

Look i believe that the ssaa could get something like this off the ground however given their current lack luster attitude to get anything done i feel that is beyond them.

Just my 2c

Yeah I remember getting fingerprinted in grade 4 in 2004. Not a great thing when it comes to personal liberties, I'd definitely protest against it, however I have had my fingerprints done for work anyway, so I'm fresh on the system (gotta remember to wear gloves :p haha).

I'm sure SSAA would push if it meant more money from shooters or schools and potential future members, plus publicity. I'm sure the individual small bore organisations would be keen too.

[Member-Deleted]

Id just like to see the ssaa do something were all here just feeling jaded by the lack luster way thet they decide to apply themselves.

To date and look im only a new commer to the sport ive been doiing this since 2015 i cant see anything positive that they have done. No advocacy for anything they just seem to be sitting back just taking the cuts as they come.

I still think they play a vital role, I'm definitely not going to stop paying for membership, they provide ranges for many disciplines, advertising, and a useful networking platform. I'm a member of other more activist/lobbying style groups too, such as: NSC, Shooters Union and Firearm Owners United. I'd really like to see a society created for all of us involved in firearms/archery/blades/misc. Arms. I did a bit of brief planning for something called "The Armed Society", where similar to the Freemason's, it'd have lodges or chapters all over Australia/New Zealand/UK/Canada/South Africa/US etc. And it's a place where everyone from the hobbyist to the heads of the biggest related organisations can meet, network, donate to various causes etc.. Planning goals would be far more easily organised, democratic voting on causes and project volunteering would be a great way for the little guy to get involved in decision making. Other services provided could be: Storage, sponsorship, training and education, legal support, raffle give-aways, business funding/loans, insurance, jobs board, museum, and even have some land with water for farmers to bring their cattle should they be affected by cattle, cheap accommodation for members and other things. I am only a broke recently graduated apprentice though :p so it's a big plan but no backing.

[Grandadbushy]

personally i think we have enough gun related bodies like the SSAA, NSC, SU and various smaller ones, all we need is for a few to start caring for hunters and sport shooters alike , the SSAA knows it doesn't have to care much for hunters or various other gun owners as it has it's own area ie ranges, sporting and target and training areas, at present we only have a couple and one in particular the NSC that is standing for the rights of all gun owners no matter what shooting activity they partake in, one of the problems i saw was there was no unity with the various groups each stuck to their own creating a divide leaving all the power to the likes of the SSAA we had no one to stand up for us collectively, But things seem to have gotten better with a few new bodies entering into the arena of all gun owners either ''hunting or sport'' so maybe from here on in we, all gun owners may have a voice .

[bladeracer]

I think a lot of the problem is that shooting is often enjoyed alone, it's not a social event. For myself, being on my own in the bush is what it's all about. It's difficult to form a "group" when the members don't want to "group" together to begin with.

[TassieTiger]

I think a lot of the problem is that shooting is often enjoyed alone, it's not a social event. For myself, being on my own in the bush is what it's all about. It's difficult to form a "group" when the members don't want to "group" together to begin with.

As a rider trainer for deca And advanced driver trainer in another life - several of us came together to lobby the govt in response to a year, where a huge no of P plate drivers were killed in this state and others.
The short story was that we would promote as a year 9 and year 10 elective - road craft and staying alive (an aspect taken from the motorcycle training syllabus).
Now roadcraft for those that don’t know is about lane position, hazard identification, adjusting speed to conditions, etc
This was signed on to by a no of high schools, DECA dropped their training rates to cost, Local headmasters were keen - it was all set up to Progress until politicians got involved and dunk the idea based upon and I quote “we are not in the business of promoting motorcycling...”
It was a lot of work, for nought.

Given this outcome, I’m not sure anyone would bother with a firearms training - which I know...means they somewhat win their objective but from my experience - it’s just not a reality...

[Member-Deleted]

I think a lot of the problem is that shooting is often enjoyed alone, it's not a social event. For myself, being on my own in the bush is what it's all about. It's difficult to form a "group" when the members don't want to "group" together to begin with.

I get it, and I've figured that as well.. maybe I should just go with starting a club :p. There is definitely a need for a single body that acts as a kind of a shooting industry round-table, this has been identified by many people, hence why "Shooters Union", "Firearm Owners United" and "National Shooting Council" were created, to bridge the gap and bring everyone together. I'd be aiming for something higher though. The quickest way to build numbers is to build alliances. We could have other focuses too to build numbers I.e. fencing, bladed weapons, archery, airsoft, paintball, gel blasting, laser tag. While shooting is an individual's sport/hobby I still think people would join if they think they are getting something out of it.

[Member-Deleted]

As a rider trainer for deca And advanced driver trainer in another life - several of us came together to lobby the govt in response to a year, where a huge no of P plate drivers were killed in this state and others.
The short story was that we would promote as a year 9 and year 10 elective - road craft and staying alive (an aspect taken from the motorcycle training syllabus).
Now roadcraft for those that don’t know is about lane position, hazard identification, adjusting speed to conditions, etc
This was signed on to by a no of high schools, DECA dropped their training rates to cost, Local headmasters were keen - it was all set up to Progress until politicians got involved and dunk the idea based upon and I quote “we are not in the business of promoting motorcycling...”
It was a lot of work, for nought.

Given this outcome, I’m not sure anyone would bother with a firearms training - which I know...means they somewhat win their objective but from my experience - it’s just not a reality...[/quote]

I'm sure if we started off in rural schools from places that could use more professional shooters to handle pests, and richer private schools where parents have an interest in having their kids become an athlete or Olympian it's an option too. Gun safety for kids who grow up in areas with a decent amount of gun crime. Then for equalities sake give every kid an opportunity. There are a lot of legitimate careers in the shooting industry, not so much in motorcycling apart from general/specialist automotive careers. But there is a very VERY similar thing about them both.

[TassieTiger]

As a rider trainer for deca And advanced driver trainer in another life - several of us came together to lobby the govt in response to a year, where a huge no of P plate drivers were killed in this state and others.
The short story was that we would promote as a year 9 and year 10 elective - road craft and staying alive (an aspect taken from the motorcycle training syllabus).
Now roadcraft for those that don’t know is about lane position, hazard identification, adjusting speed to conditions, etc
This was signed on to by a no of high schools, DECA dropped their training rates to cost, Local headmasters were keen - it was all set up to Progress until politicians got involved and dunk the idea based upon and I quote “we are not in the business of promoting motorcycling...”
It was a lot of work, for nought.

Given this outcome, I’m not sure anyone would bother with a firearms training - which I know...means they somewhat win their objective but from my experience - it’s just not a reality...

I'm sure if we started off in rural schools from places that could use more professional shooters to handle pests, and richer private schools where parents have an interest in having their kids become an athlete or Olympian it's an option too. Gun safety for kids who grow up in areas with a decent amount of gun crime. Then for equalities sake give every kid an opportunity. There are a lot of legitimate careers in the shooting industry, not so much in motorcycling apart from general/specialist automotive careers. But there is a very VERY similar thing about them both.[/quote]

Apples and pineapples. Road safety affects everyone - it has nothing to do with “related” careers.
From govt perspective - You won’t get a bigger stick than a safety related stick - which, in the face of 20 x 17-21 year old road deaths in 12 months, is what we were lobbying to fix.
Olympics are moving away from shooting events and the govt would not care about the minuscule amount of shooting related positions in rural or other areas. Private rich kids becoming athletes? Ummm...matters not what’s in place, if they want it, they’ll get it done.

[Member-Deleted]

Hit the government with the safety stick then :p I understand their stick is bigger and hurts if proper lubrication is not applied. I remember doing a road safety course during grade 10, maybe the amount of people going for their motorbike licence is significantly less than those going for their car licence, but I do like your idea for lobbying. Unfortunately the Tasmanian government is probably the most backwards of all Australian Governments, they'd rather remove sex from a birth certificate than implement a program designed to save lives.

Maybe you're right about the idea, but we won't know unless we try, and unfortunately that's the only option shooters are left with, trying every avenue available, again and again.

[TassieTiger]

Hit the government with the safety stick then :p I understand their stick is bigger and hurts if proper lubrication is not applied. I remember doing a road safety course during grade 10, maybe the amount of people going for their motorbike licence is significantly less than those going for their car licence, but I do like your idea for lobbying. Unfortunately the Tasmanian government is probably the most backwards of all Australian Governments, they'd rather remove sex from a birth certificate than implement a program designed to save lives.

Maybe you're right about the idea, but we won't know unless we try, and unfortunately that's the only option shooters are left with, trying every avenue available, again and again.

2 cents worth...
In my opinion, Left of field, outside of the box thinking - a completely different approach is needed...it’s insane to do same thing and expect different results...the groups we do have, need to step back and collectively disseminate some initially conservative, but left of field ideas, to promote ownership and participation. We have the numbers to make an impact, but we need a uniting idea / front, to pull everyone together.

[Member-Deleted]

Do you have suggestions for such ideas? Once this lockdown ends I plan on becoming VERY active in the community, volunteering left, right and centre. I'd volunteer for NSC, SSAA, a local club, SFF, if I can get work in the industry as I'm currently unemployed that'd be preferred, I'll be looking into starting a decent YouTube/Twitch channel that revolves around shooting and firearms. I'll be pushing hard.

[TassieTiger]

Do you have suggestions for such ideas? Once this lockdown ends I plan on becoming VERY active in the community, volunteering left, right and centre. I'd volunteer for NSC, SSAA, a local club, SFF, if I can get work in the industry as I'm currently unemployed that'd be preferred, I'll be looking into starting a decent YouTube/Twitch channel that revolves around shooting and firearms. I'll be pushing hard.

Think it needs a white board brainstorm from numerous...
Several angles maybe...and I’m spit balling here.
A push to get families / women involved...get the mums involved with target .22’s and the family will follow in due course...you’d need to engage some existing lady shooters and then press them for what appealed to get them shooting in the first instance. Compared to some mainstream sports - target shooting is not giving anyone brain damage, broken bones, injuries that might cripple in later life - but still promote competition and team work.
Firearm ownership and use promotes healthy responsibility and gives kids a sense of self satisfaction and hey cannot be emulated like football or soccer.
How many sports can mum / kids team up in and compete together...?
Come and try days - well organised, free and heavily promoted.
Look to other very successful markets for ideas that have launched shooting in the right direction?
Hunting - a difficult sell in today’s world. Perhaps a focus on conservation because of over population and then a focus on the unarguable benefits of lean, un chemically marinated farmed meat...ever since laws were changed about abattoirs...ppl have happily been ignorant of the going’s on re their beef supply. Perhaps a sell of the healthier side of hunting - not only the end product...one way might be a short documentary series on Aust hunting...I asked previously where was the Oz Steve Rinella because he has bought sooo many people into the fray...
Etc etc etc.

[Member-Deleted]

I like it, I've taken a screenshot, I'll try to push some of the ideas should I be in a position to in the future.

[Member-Deleted]

I did see a single YouTube video from Vice (ew) and they were discussing hunting in Australia. I think it was called "The Australian Cat Hunter" or something like that.

[marksman]

the last school l know that had shooting at school is Timbertop or the Geelong Grammar school, an elderly gent from the ssaa military rifle club who was also an RO at little river named Ian ran it for many years as well as doing the firearm safety tests so these school kids could get there junior permits to be able to join in
old age caught up with Ian and l'm not sure if he is still around as a couple of people have tried to contact him but not been successful,
this had nothing to do with the ssaa

l agree with the conversation you guys are having and l agree we as shooters have to make shooting/hunting an acceptable sport in the communities, it is a lot easier in the country to do this although its more about knowing people and what type of person they are, having good reputations
the ssaa have a junior program that is very well run in little river where the kids can come and use club rifles and learn to shoot safely at the range
this program has exploded in popularity getting very large and having a lot of very selfless people who give up their time to keep this program going
one of my daughters went for a little while but was happier shooting something for the pot, IMHO its a great initiative started by a few club members
the only worry l have is that because it is successful the club management will take it over and ruin it trying to milk it
its how you get the next generation to accept firearms as a part of society though, learn from the woke progressives and get them while they are young
getting over the karen and kevin parents is the challenge

what l think anyway

[Member-Deleted]

Also getting it past school boards where majority of those people are hard leftists.

[bladeracer]

Also getting it past school boards where majority of those people are hard leftists.

Yep, I think trying to do it within the school system is a dead end. Even PCYC is leftist these days. Get it back into Cadet units, Scouts, Guides, Explorers and such.

[marksman]

Also getting it past school boards where majority of those people are hard leftists.

Yep, I think trying to do it within the school system is a dead end. Even PCYC is leftist these days. Get it back into Cadet units, Scouts, Guides, Explorers and such.

+1

[Member-Deleted]

Also getting it past school boards where majority of those people are hard leftists.

Yep, I think trying to do it within the school system is a dead end. Even PCYC is leftist these days. Get it back into Cadet units, Scouts, Guides, Explorers and such.

I think cadets already fire the Steyr AUG's, unsure about Scouts and Guides, they seem pretty broke nowadays, they do have archery though. I have seen rural community youth sports clubs have skeet shooting included. Outward Bound maybe? We'll see, I'll see what I can do once I start volunteering for gun organisations.

[bladeracer]

Also getting it past school boards where majority of those people are hard leftists.

Yep, I think trying to do it within the school system is a dead end. Even PCYC is leftist these days. Get it back into Cadet units, Scouts, Guides, Explorers and such.

I think cadets already fire the Steyr AUG's, unsure about Scouts and Guides, they seem pretty broke nowadays, they do have archery though. I have seen rural community youth sports clubs have skeet shooting included. Outward Bound maybe? We'll see, I'll see what I can do once I start volunteering for gun organisations.

My guess would be that Scouts and Guides would lean well left on firearms ownership.
I would love to see a situation that makes it possible for people like myself to bring a bunch of different milsurp or just older and varied designs out to somewhere that kids can try them out for themselves, that would be awesome!