Mental Health and your License

[winton]

Well, lockdown has put alot of pressure on families and relationships and finances. The Govt. is offering "supposed" mental health support that I've heard about, but if taking up this support means I'll lose my firearms license given Vic Pol's recent form, I'm gonna give it a miss, and I imagine anyone who thinks their smart would give it a miss also. Why take the chance?

Obviously, this is not to suggest that I am in need personally, or to suggest that you shouldn't access support, but I can understand people who have lost their jobs in lockdown needing it and would not like to see Vic Pol throw them under the bus like they did with covid breaches. I don't see why Vic Pol wouldn't throw them under, cause its part of their mandate to stop mentally challenged people from accessing firearms.

Let the debate begin. Would you accept such support, and have you know others who have had their license cancelled because they took up mental health support pre and post Covid.

[mchughcb]

No and No.

[Member-Deleted]

Well, lockdown has put alot of pressure on families and relationships and finances. The Govt. is offering "supposed" mental health support that I've heard about, but if taking up this support means I'll lose my firearms license given Vic Pol's recent form, I'm gonna give it a miss, and I imagine anyone who thinks their smart would give it a miss also. Why take the chance?

Obviously, this is not to suggest that I am in need personally, or to suggest that you shouldn't access support, but I can understand people who have lost their jobs in lockdown needing it and would not like to see Vic Pol throw them under the bus like they did with covid breaches. I don't see why Vic Pol wouldn't throw them under, cause its part of their mandate to stop mentally challenged people from accessing firearms.

Let the debate begin. Would you accept such support, and have you know others who have had their license cancelled because they took up mental health support pre and post Covid.

I wouldn't risk it. Unfortunately it's just the way of the world. I believe it's similar to police, military and Mafia culture. You need to see a shrink? You've actually just applied for retirement.

[bigrich]

I wouldn't risk it. Unfortunately it's just the way of the world. I believe it's similar to police, military and Mafia culture. You need to see a shrink? You've actually just applied for retirement.

i'm not that keen on the mafias interpretation of "retirement"

[eddievic]

The bigger question is whether you should even have guns if your mental health is compromised? And can you even see that aspect.

Also i don't know if its like a voucher system where once you approved you can choose your own mental health professional. They have a confidentiality agreement with you to not share what you discuss with any other department. And as i said above if you are suicidal or in a bad way i rather you hand your guns over to someone until things can be worked out and go see a professional. Instead of things reaching breaking point and we hear person X shot his/her spouse or took their own lives.

In other cases the psychologist can write up a report to say you are fit to have a firearm license.

Or you can just pay for a few sessions privately, or you can get your GP to do up a health plan and that gives you a few sessions where the Federal government pays for the sessions.

I know a couple of people who see psychologist regularly and still have their licenses and guns etc

[Oldbloke]

The bigger question is whether you should even have guns if your mental health is compromised? And can you even see that aspect.

Also i don't know if its like a voucher system where once you approved you can choose your own mental health professional. They have a confidentiality agreement with you to not share what you discuss with any other department. And as i said above if you are suicidal or in a bad way i rather you hand your guns over to someone until things can be worked out and go see a professional. Instead of things reaching breaking point and we hear person X shot his/her spouse or took their own lives.

In other cases the psychologist can write up a report to say you are fit to have a firearm license.

Or you can just pay for a few sessions privately, or you can get your GP to do up a health plan and that gives you a few sessions where the Federal government pays for the sessions.

I know a couple of people who see psychologist regularly and still have their licenses and guns etc

Eddie, you just said what I was thinking.
What's more important?
Your health? or
Your sport?

[marksman]

No and No.

+1 without even thinking about it, no thought at all no trust in the government to do the right thing by anyone at all

[trekin]

The bigger question is whether you should even have guns if your mental health is compromised? And can you even see that aspect.

Also i don't know if its like a voucher system where once you approved you can choose your own mental health professional. They have a confidentiality agreement with you to not share what you discuss with any other department. And as i said above if you are suicidal or in a bad way i rather you hand your guns over to someone until things can be worked out and go see a professional. Instead of things reaching breaking point and we hear person X shot his/her spouse or took their own lives.

In other cases the psychologist can write up a report to say you are fit to have a firearm license.

Or you can just pay for a few sessions privately, or you can get your GP to do up a health plan and that gives you a few sessions where the Federal government pays for the sessions.

I know a couple of people who see psychologist regularly and still have their licenses and guns etc

The bigger question is whether you should even have guns if your mental health is compromised? And can you even see that aspect.

Also i don't know if its like a voucher system where once you approved you can choose your own mental health professional. They have a confidentiality agreement with you to not share what you discuss with any other department. And as i said above if you are suicidal or in a bad way i rather you hand your guns over to someone until things can be worked out and go see a professional. Instead of things reaching breaking point and we hear person X shot his/her spouse or took their own lives.

In other cases the psychologist can write up a report to say you are fit to have a firearm license.

Or you can just pay for a few sessions privately, or you can get your GP to do up a health plan and that gives you a few sessions where the Federal government pays for the sessions.

I know a couple of people who see psychologist regularly and still have their licenses and guns etc

Eddie, you just said what I was thinking.
What's more important?
Your health? or
Your sport?

On the other hand, people with Written Language Disorders probably shouldn't have a firearms licence either, or comment on subjects such as this.

[Grandadbushy]

It's all well and good to think that doctors and such have a privacy act but you are forgetting that they have a paper they sign stating whether you are fit or not fit to have a gun licence and at times this is abused by the system my wife went to renew her gun licence this year and was knocked back, we didn't know why, well it turns out the licencing branch some how found out she was to have an eye operation eventually on both eyes which she has had and now has 20x20 vision but it turns out that the doctor had notified the appropriate gov dept to deem her unfit to have a gun licence or use a firearm because of her temporary bad sight , so her licence was withdrawn, we approached the doctor and she said it was expected of them to notify the appropriate department on such matters so the wife demanded her money back from the licencing branch and was given it back, now if she wants a gun licence she has to do a gun course have a doctor deem her safe which all costs dollars which is hard for a pensioner they could have just suspended it until she was deemed ok to continue with shooting , all this was done behind our backs by a doctor we use very regular so don't think doctors or any medical or professional depts will stick to the privacy act it will depend on who, how, and what type of person they are and at the moment they all worship the dollar and to keep that they'll even do the law makers job for them , if they keep pushing the limits on this sane, insane stupidity then we will end up having more nuts out there than should be because they won't go to and be seen to by a professional to sort their mental problems, let the professional deside whether you are a risk, then if need be take your licence not just take all licences from everybody who seeks advice, that's a sign that they're still quiet capable of being rational and safe with a fire arm , if you think i'm wrong about the point of having more nuts out there if they keep pushing to take gun licences from all people seeking assistance from professionals then just ask yourself why was this post started was it not for some fear of people losing their gun licence for just asking for assistance, and read some of the replies , that should give you some indication .

[Grandadbushy]

I agree Trekin this whole ''fit and proper '' person is an open book for the licencing branch people ie where as with the absolute smallest thing not even related to guns or the use there of can cause you to lose or be not able to obtain a gun licence

[Grandadbushy]

I believe notice should be taken with most murders associated with mental problems , the murder never took place because the murder asked for assistance it was because there was a failure to follow through and find out the facts and deal with them and treat this person it was put into the too hard basket and the knee jerk reaction from that was if mental assistance is mentioned then just take their gun licence, these people should be smart enough to know that a person with the mental urge to kill will still have that urge with or without a gun or gun licence and action has to be taken to treat these people not just brush them aside by doing so they just drive the potential problems deeper from seeking help. Just cast your minds back to the razor gangs years ago killing with a cut throat razor was rife a gun wasn't even mentioned, these people done what they thought they had to do so in saying that I myself would prefer a person with depression to have their gun licence and be treated by a professional , with no fear of losing anything rather than have a nut with fear of losing their guns and licence if they ask for assistance , and another point is it's a minute percentage of people that commit these offences are licenced gun owners

[winton]

The bigger question is whether you should even have guns if your mental health is compromised? And can you even see that aspect.

Also i don't know if its like a voucher system where once you approved you can choose your own mental health professional. They have a confidentiality agreement with you to not share what you discuss with any other department. And as i said above if you are suicidal or in a bad way i rather you hand your guns over to someone until things can be worked out and go see a professional. Instead of things reaching breaking point and we hear person X shot his/her spouse or took their own lives.

In other cases the psychologist can write up a report to say you are fit to have a firearm license.

Or you can just pay for a few sessions privately, or you can get your GP to do up a health plan and that gives you a few sessions where the Federal government pays for the sessions.

I know a couple of people who see psychologist regularly and still have their licenses and guns etc

No one can say that your unfit until an expert says it. But LRD will suspend your license until further notice I guess. Also, the experts are protected from any consequences and are not subject to privacy if they wish to inform police. I think its on LRDs website.

Of course everyone would like a system where you would self-suspend your own license and hand in all your firearms if one has suicidal thoughts, but seriously, would you do that if things were getting hard and you yourself might have contemplated the what ifs?

I've heard (2nd hand) that people getting marriage councilling were deemed unfit by LRD to hold a license. It isn't unreasonable to see in the future that those getting a divorce might have to hand their license in, as a precaution.

I agree with BangWhizzClack, its just the way of our little corner of the world. You gotta deal with the LRD you got, rather than the LRD you wish you had. But boy can we not do something about the LRD we got?

Grandadbushy, sorry to hear about your wife losing her license. Are you still seeing that doctor?

[Grandadbushy]

Winton No mate, i'm up front and i expect every professional to be that way to, that's why i posted what i have prior , people will steer away from those that treat us like clowns , the doctor should have indicated she was going to report it and the wife would have told her she don't even own a gun and doesn't shoot because of her sight and was waiting for that to be fixed, i did front the doctor and told her exactly what i thought and why we were changing doctors and that it would be to her benefit to be more professional and up front when dealing with others, since then unbeknown to me until a month ago that many others are going the extra 60klm to see another doctor , i'm presuming she's upset a few more with her way of doing things also my wife hasn't been quiet about how she was treated but we don't dwell on it, as things like this happen from time to time

[Grandadbushy]

Here's another one for you Winton , I was seeing a dentist for 15yrs or so until one day i told him that i shot wild dogs and ferals almost immediately his demeaner changed, for awhile i put up with it until one day i asked him what was up his hole and he went on to inform me he couldn't stand people who kill animals be it for food or pest control , so there you go, how would you like some professional with his mentality having the last say on your gun licence or future? I doubt it would be based on anything ethical or professional.

[winton]

Well, here it is for Victorians. If you're a vic health professional, you are exempt from any criminal or civil liability for providing info to the police as long as its in good faith. Can't imagine it being any different for other states.

https://www.police.vic.gov.au/sites/def ... 2016_0.pdf

Graddadbushy, its pretty poor form to be doing that sort of thing in a rural community where access to guns are necessary for primary production or just living of the land.

the lesson I'm learning is keep your trap shut.

I know a couple of people who see psychologist regularly and still have their licenses and guns etc

Hey eddievic, Have your colleagues or their shrinks informed LRD about their situation? or has LRD not been informed? Do you consider their mental health to be compromised? Just curious.

[mchughcb]

Imagine after 61 days being locked up for up to 23 hours per day going to the beach yesterday for your families mental health, being fined by the police for being more than 5km from your house then losing your license. Seems fair in Victoria.

[Oldbloke]

I agree Trekin this whole ''fit and proper '' person is an open book for the licencing branch people ie where as with the absolute smallest thing not even related to guns or the use there of can cause you to lose or be not able to obtain a gun licence

Yes agree. It is a worry.

[Grandadbushy]

Yeah pretty much Winton ( the lesson i'm learning is keep your mouth shut) but i find it easier to be straight and honest , if i personally thought i had mental problems to the point where i realised i had them i would certainly do something about it

[Member-Deleted]

I wouldn't risk it. Unfortunately it's just the way of the world. I believe it's similar to police, military and Mafia culture. You need to see a shrink? You've actually just applied for retirement.

i'm not that keen on the mafias interpretation of "retirement"

[eddievic]

Trekkin. rotfl mate i feel you are holding a grudge. I think you need to talk to a mental health professional or you can pm me,i won't bite.

Winton, i helped a person to apply for their license, and they had seen a physiologist for a number of years beforehand. we just got a letter from the physc. and/or GP and attached to their licenses application form and no issues.

I think we have become a dobing in society.

GDB, that's s**t. I do wonder if the doctor your wife saw was a young registrar? Another thought, how she knew your wife had a firearms licence, unless she reported the cataract thing to your road authority eqv. and they passed the info on to your licensing authority eqv.

[Oldbloke]

"this is abused by the system my wife went to renew her gun licence this year and was knocked back, we didn't know why, well it turns out the licencing branch some how found out she was to have an eye operation eventually on both eyes which she has had and now has 20x20 vision but it turns out that the doctor had notified the appropriate gov dept to deem her unfit to have a gun licence"

That's pretty crap GDB.

Pepple have a habit of trying to apply their ethics or beliefs to other people.

For that and security reasons I generally keep the fact I have firearms "low profile". I certainly don't advertise it.

(I do a lot is "bush walking")

[Grandadbushy]

Well eddievic the doctor first asked her if she had a car licence, because of her diabetes she had to fill out a form and register it on her car licence , which she did, so then there is a section on this form that only the Dr fills out and that includes covering all licences , so then my mrs gets a letter from gun licencing branch and was sent a letter saying her doctor had filled this part in deeming the mrs not a proper person for a gun licence , what accompanied that letter was a form for the doctor to fill out stating my wife was proper to own a gun licence , which the Dr refused to do , and a special point here , you can't take the form to another Dr it has to be the one that signed the original form, so since all this we have to start from scratch if she wants a gun licence ie redo the test, eye examination by ''specialist'' not just a Dr, then her Dr has to submit a form deeming the wife is now fixed and proper to have a licence, then application and licence fees even before you are accepted ok from the licencing branch you may still not get a licence, the whole thing started from a formality of registering the diabetes on the licence and a doctor that decided the wife shouldn't have any of the above and filled out that section.

[marksman]

it just goes to show you have to make educated decisions and an educated guess would be that an anti will not do the right thing by you
that's not to say there are not people out there with common sence

its no different to the elderly people who refuse to be tested now for the kung flu because they have heard how horribly others have been treated in supposed care
they would rather die with some freedoms and be living than in total isolation with no visitors waiting to die in fear

big brother is there for you, yea right keep dreaming

[Grandadbushy]

Yep exactly right marksman this whole covid thing has awakened a monster it just shows what lengths a government will go to to hold power and how ill prepared the world is if a major event did happen , how governments and the individual politicians would turn on each other , just like now, with the blame game ,i don't remember garbage if their memory is that bad they shouldn't be making decisions for the country, imagine if you had a lawyer with a memory like that , yes these pollies don't realise they are becoming the laughing stock of humanity and placing our police in a compromising situation ,''damned if you do damned if you don't''

[Oldbloke]

Yep exactly right marksman this whole covid thing has awakened a monster it just shows what lengths a government will go to to hold power and how ill prepared the world is if a major event did happen , how governments and the individual politicians would turn on each other , just like now, with the blame game ,i don't remember garbage if their memory is that bad they shouldn't be making decisions for the country, imagine if you had a lawyer with a memory like that , yes these pollies don't realise they are becoming the laughing stock of humanity and placing our police in a compromising situation ,''damned if you do damned if you don't''

The thing is that the vast majority of the population simply are not aware of what legislation is in place. Its generally passed without any fan fair or our knowledge.

The legislation that has been used in Victoria over the past 6 or so months has been in place for many years. IT IS NOT NEW. The Emergency Management legislation has been around for at least 25 years that I am aware of. I read some of it 25 years ago for an assignment.

Ha, just had a look. The Emergency Management act has been around since 1986

Just remember BOTH parties have been aware of this. And both will use it.

[eddievic]

Omg GDB, that would make me absolutely livid. I feel for you. I hope my regular doctor wont be like that.

But its like the same situation where some older doctors refuse to prescribe the pill to young girls due to their Christian beliefs.

Interesting observation IB, i didn't know that, but many laws have been passed esp since the 9/11 thing happened which could easily be misused but any govt. And i was even more surprised when the law about a DHHS officer can deputise any person (with no qualification whatsoever) to detain a resident of Victoria. Was not given much coverage in mainstream media, or even here.

[Oldbloke]

Omg GDB, that would make me absolutely livid. I feel for you. I hope my regular doctor wont be like that.

But its like the same situation where some older doctors refuse to prescribe the pill to young girls due to their Christian beliefs.

Interesting observation IB, i didn't know that, but many laws have been passed esp since the 9/11 thing happened which could easily be misused but any govt. And i was even more surprised when the law about a DHHS officer can deputise any person (with no qualification whatsoever) to detain a resident of Victoria. Was not given much coverage in mainstream media, or even here.

I heared just a bit about that. Did that sh1t get through?

Of course police need SFA to arrest a shooter in Vic.

It's not right.

And people rave about freedom. We havnt been free for 40 years. Very heavily regulated.

[Grandadbushy]

We have never been free we have been ''Tolerated'' as we are a means to wealth for governments just look how much tax you pay, you say it's to pay for roads and infrastructure , well then why are we paying past prime ministers and high ranking politicians till they die also their huge super funds. I have never not wanted to pay tax , registrations or any fees the government requires , but now we don't have those smart politicians that are worth this money because they squander it on bad investments and pay far too much to other countries , by all means help them but don't put their own people into hardship by doing so, and then to tell us we need to tighten our belts, i truly find that hypocritical . The big parties are now no longer viable for Australians in my view

[Larry]

My Doctor actually warned me about the MY Health program and advised to opt out. I was already going to do so as the Governments have shown time and time again that they are not up to the task of keeping your information secure or private. The doctors concern was along the line of what would happen if insurance companies got hold of your medical records re insurance going forward ect. But likewise all that information is now there to be shared with all government departments. A tracker could easily be put in place to pick up on prescription medications that could then flag, Gun licensing even car licensing. Its not into the future stuff anymore we are very much linked across all departments just look at the my gov website from your tax records to health records and any wealth fare payments ect it all there in one spot.

[eddievic]

OB last i heard it had already passed through the lower house. And waiting on horse trading in the upper house.... but i might have heard that it is dead in the water as Dan has changed his mind