Stolen Firearms

[JimTom]

I cringe every time I read an article like this.

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-ac ... 6f26cfc2a0

[bladeracer]

A friend in Perth had a break-in over Christmas.
They walked up with face covering, tilted his cameras upward, then spray painted them for good measure, inside and outside cameras. They touched nothing else but his rifle safe which they tore out and took with them.
Weird thing is, it was empty. He only has it for the occasions that he brings a firearm back from his country property, which is his storage address.
He rarely has them in town so it's extremely unlikely anybody happened to notice him taking a rifle inside, or followed him home from the range.
It's possible somebody followed him home from the gun shop, but the worrying thing is that it's more likely somebody is working from a customer list stolen from Barry's a while back. Somebody that knows he owns firearms, and his licence address, but not his storage address.

[ThePlinkster]

A friend in Perth had a bresk-in over Christmas.
They walked up with face covering, tilted his cameras upward, then spray painted them for good measure, inside and outside cameras. They touched nothing else but his rifle safe which they tore out and took with them.
Weird thing is, it was empty. He only has it for the occasions that he brings a firearm back from his country property, which is his storage address.
He rarely has them in town so it's extremely unlikely anybody happened to notice him taking a rifle inside, or followed him home from the range.
It's possible somebody followed him home from the gun shop, but the worrying thing is that it's more likely somebody is working from a customer list stolen from Barry's a while back. Somebody that knows he owns firearms, and his licence address, but not his storage address.

Yeah.......
Some firearm stores aren't very good with privacy............
The last time I went to collect a rifle from a firearm store
The sales rep just left his "rifle collection book" wide open onto the counter for the whole world to see
Anyone could've just walked past and seen everyone's details, including their addresses etc.......
It's worrying when things like that happen and disappointing

[ShotgunRifleorBoth]

The biggest trouble I have with stolen firearms is 'victim blaming'.
Where you have taken reasonable precautions WHY is it almost automatic that you be charged with 'failure to secure weapons'??
Especially when traveling?
Nobody in their right mind intends to make stealing their firearms easy.
Its like saying the car owner was responsible for the car theft because they hadn't locked the keys away, so when the person broke into the house the keys were on the table!! Therefore, the owner is responsible, not the thief!!

[bladeracer]

The biggest trouble I have with stolen firearms is 'victim blaming'.
Where you have taken reasonable precautions WHY is it almost automatic that you be charged with 'failure to secure weapons'??
Especially when traveling?
Nobody in their right mind intends to make stealing their firearms easy.
Its like saying the car owner was responsible for the car theft because they hadn't locked the keys away, so when the person broke into the house the keys were on the table!! Therefore, the owner is responsible, not the thief!!

Yep, that's how our society has changed, it's far easier to deal with victim of crime than to prevent it or go after the criminals. Nanny state mentality comes with it, assume we're all guilty of something.

[ThePlinkster]

Can we actually be charged with "failure to secure weapon" if someone does break in and steals our rifles though?

Even if we followed all safe keeping and safe storing regulations?
(Aka bolting the safe down into the concrete and/or frame of the house etc)

[Larry]

Can we actually be charged with "failure to secure weapon" if someone does break in and steals our rifles though?

Even if we followed all safe keeping and safe storing regulations?
(Aka bolting the safe down into the concrete and/or frame of the house etc)

Not if they were deemed to be reasonable secure. I would take that to mean that they needed power tools or at least tools of a reasonable size not just a screwdriver and considerable damage was done to the safe in gaining entry. The damage done proving that considerable force was needed to gain entry.

[Tiger650]

A friend in Perth had a bresk-in over Christmas.
They walked up with face covering, tilted his cameras upward, then spray painted them for good measure, inside and outside cameras. They touched nothing else but his rifle safe which they tore out and took with them.
Weird thing is, it was empty. He only has it for the occasions that he brings a firearm back from his country property, which is his storage address.
He rarely has them in town so it's extremely unlikely anybody happened to notice him taking a rifle inside, or followed him home from the range.
It's possible somebody followed him home from the gun shop, but the worrying thing is that it's more likely somebody is working from a customer list stolen from Barry's a while back. Somebody that knows he owns firearms, and his licence address, but not his storage address.

Yeah.......
Some firearm stores aren't very good with privacy............
The last time I went to collect a rifle from a firearm store
The sales rep just left his "rifle collection book" wide open onto the counter for the whole world to see
Anyone could've just walked past and seen everyone's details, including their addresses etc.......
It's worrying when things like that happen and disappointing

I have seen that too.

[bladeracer]

It might be a good camoflage to buy a cheaper safe and leave it somewhere prominent, where it will be seen long before your proper safes are found. Let them steal that one and leave the real ones alone. Decent insurance for a couple hundred bucks.

[JimTom]

A friend in Perth had a break-in over Christmas.
They walked up with face covering, tilted his cameras upward, then spray painted them for good measure, inside and outside cameras. They touched nothing else but his rifle safe which they tore out and took with them.
Weird thing is, it was empty. He only has it for the occasions that he brings a firearm back from his country property, which is his storage address.
He rarely has them in town so it's extremely unlikely anybody happened to notice him taking a rifle inside, or followed him home from the range.
It's possible somebody followed him home from the gun shop, but the worrying thing is that it's more likely somebody is working from a customer list stolen from Barry's a while back. Somebody that knows he owns firearms, and his licence address, but not his storage address.

Definitely sounds like the thieves had access to some privileged information.

[JohnV]

A friend in Perth had a break-in over Christmas.
They walked up with face covering, tilted his cameras upward, then spray painted them for good measure, inside and outside cameras. They touched nothing else but his rifle safe which they tore out and took with them.
Weird thing is, it was empty. He only has it for the occasions that he brings a firearm back from his country property, which is his storage address.
He rarely has them in town so it's extremely unlikely anybody happened to notice him taking a rifle inside, or followed him home from the range.
It's possible somebody followed him home from the gun shop, but the worrying thing is that it's more likely somebody is working from a customer list stolen from Barry's a while back. Somebody that knows he owns firearms, and his licence address, but not his storage address.

That is what they are doing , following people home , when I leave a range now or even a gunshop I watch very carefully who is coming behind me and do a few turn backs or around the block maneuvers to see if anyone keeps following .

[bladeracer]

That is what they are doing , following people home , when I leave a range now or even a gunshop I watch very carefully who is coming behind me and do a few turn backs or around the block maneuvers to see if anyone keeps following .

They were doing this in Perth back in 1990 at the pistol clubs.

[JohnV]

That is what they are doing , following people home , when I leave a range now or even a gunshop I watch very carefully who is coming behind me and do a few turn backs or around the block maneuvers to see if anyone keeps following .

They were doing this in Perth back in 1990 at the pistol clubs.

Handguns are high on the list for criminals . I have a sneaking suspicion that a lot of stolen weapons in military cals go overseas and get sold in the Middle East , Ukraine and other trouble spots .

[JohnV]

It might be a good camoflage to buy a cheaper safe and leave it somewhere prominent, where it will be seen long before your proper safes are found. Let them steal that one and leave the real ones alone. Decent insurance for a couple hundred bucks.

Good idea mate , that's called a " gig trap " in old criminal vernacular .

[Blr243]

Awesome idea blade. Small cheap safe with small gauge screws attaching it To the floor so they can grab it and run. 3 black Plastic toy handguns inside The safe to Temporarily excite them When they finally get the door open.

[Ziege]

That is what they are doing , following people home , when I leave a range now or even a gunshop I watch very carefully who is coming behind me and do a few turn backs or around the block maneuvers to see if anyone keeps following .

They were doing this in Perth back in 1990 at the pistol clubs.

Handguns are high on the list for criminals . I have a sneaking suspicion that a lot of stolen weapons in military cals go overseas and get sold in the Middle East , Ukraine and other trouble spots .

haha no, arms dealers get their hands on milsurps and other mass produced consignments for these situations, this is well documented and many loopholes exist in international law, a couple of hollywood gems that loosely show an accurate portrayal of it are "War Dogs" and "Lord of War", small arms stolen here are in the hands of either bikies or other small time crooks most of the time, however the majority of their small arms come from places like fishing boats met north of the continent.

[Robin]

For me, I don't want my son getting into my safe, so I go above and beyond to make sure I can prevent that , I have multi cameras looking at the safe from different angles, I figure if they get one cameras, then at least the other cameras will , cameras are also around the outside of my house, big thing that worries me with that, its basically saying to a thief that I have something they want, my bolt's are in a remote location and ammo is never stored near the bolt or safe, its always locked away is a remote location , its a pain in the arse but at the end of the day, it makes it harder for my son to get to, plus if a thief did break in and take my guns, at least they are not taking something that they can use that day/night.

When I Finnish building my new house, my safe is going to be like trying to break into area54, if only it was legal to boobytrap my safe haha. call me paranoid, but I can insure my guns , I can't get my son back if anything happens.

[Lsfan]

For me, I don't want my son getting into my safe, so I go above and beyond to make sure I can prevent that , I have multi cameras looking at the safe from different angles, I figure if they get one cameras, then at least the other cameras will , cameras are also around the outside of my house, big thing that worries me with that, its basically saying to a thief that I have something they want, my bolt's are in a remote location and ammo is never stored near the bolt or safe, its always locked away is a remote location , its a pain in the arse but at the end of the day, it makes it harder for my son to get to, plus if a thief did break in and take my guns, at least they are not taking something that they can use that day/night.

When I Finnish building my new house, my safe is going to be like trying to break into area54, if only it was legal to boobytrap my safe haha. call me paranoid, but I can insure my guns , I can't get my son back if anything happens.

I agree 100%. I’ve got kids and I remember how curious I was when I was little, not to mention the stories you read in the paper about accidents. I’ve taken similar precautions as you, plus my wife was completely against me getting rifles for the same reasons which forced me to go a bit over the top.

[Ziege]

I must have grown up in a completely different time and place, not once as a kid did I ever treat a firearm as a toy or something I could go play with.

[womble]

It might be a good camoflage to buy a cheaper safe and leave it somewhere prominent, where it will be seen long before your proper safes are found. Let them steal that one and leave the real ones alone. Decent insurance for a couple hundred bucks.

100% . Very good advice.
It might even be smart to only shift your firearms to that safe for inspections.
Just sayin

[Blr243]

Sitting here pre work half asleep is not the time good ideas are likely to pop into my head ..... but I was just thinking of how to improve security. Cordless shears and grinders make gun safe entry easy. We could glue 6 mm thick plate to the insides of our safe walls. ...Glued outside can be prised off and outside looks ugly

[cz515]

Bigger safes and for lack of better word, professional safes use a combination of steel and aluminium plates sandwiched together to make it harder for angle grinders and even blowtorch to get through and cut the wall.

But given enough time and noise everything can be broken into.

I think blades idea is awesome. As long as they don't open the safe at your home. But sometimes its just easy for them to use a knife to your or a loved one to get you to open the safe.

I do wonder about bolts, is it WA where you have to keep bolts seperated from rifles. I assume they all use a bolt shroud with name of rifle on them as keeping bolts seperated to me will weaken the firing spring unless you release and uncock the bolt.

Also the bigger issue of mistakenly taking the wrong bolt, esp if you have same model rifle in two calibres like 308 and 243. And worse firing with the wrong headspace and the resultant boom

[Ziege]

nope dont have to keep bolts separate in WA, the bolt is part of the GUN therefore is stored with the rest of it and magazine etc.

[Patriot]

The point of the safe at least at the start was to prevent accidents not to prevent theft by organised thieves. This seems to have changed. The coppers seem to be using it as an opportunity to use the big stick and whack people for minor issues. No safe or security will stop a determined crook.

[womble]

An empty one will

[Larry]

An empty safe is a invitation to be filled. perhaps every gun owner should go out and buy another safe.

The point of the safe at least at the start was to prevent accidents not to prevent theft by organised thieves. This seems to have changed. The coppers seem to be using it as an opportunity to use the big stick and whack people for minor issues. No safe or security will stop a determined crook.

Correct but now that it is mandatory every gun owner can determine for themselves what role do they want the safe to play. Protect from unwanted little figures that could kill themselves or to try and protect your guns against thieves when you are not home. If you have a house invasion then I agree you either put that down instantly or you are at their mercy in order to protect you loved ones.

if it is to secure your guns for saftey from kids removing the bolts and storing them separately is probably the best idea.
to protect against thieves then really the only option is industrial grade safes or at least modifying a gun safe with extra steel or a external cover of concrete and other materials. As BLR suggested several layers of different materials wood, fire brick and steel are all used in commercial safes to deter break ins. As silly as wood sounds it doesnt take well to angle grinder blades.

[Oldbloke]

The point of the safe at least at the start was to prevent accidents not to prevent theft by organised thieves. This seems to have changed. The coppers seem to be using it as an opportunity to use the big stick and whack people for minor issues. No safe or security will stop a determined crook.

100% correct. In the beginning (John Howard) only a "difficult to enter" wooden or steel container was required. Im ok with having a safe, as we know it now. What pees me off is the way it's been sneaked in incrementaly.

[JohnV]

You read it wrong I said military cals not handguns specifically . Of course some end up in bikers hands and other criminals here .

[Blr243]

Mayb a safe could have a camera focused on it , and if movement detected , send pictures / alarm to your phone. Or an internal switch, dectecting movement/ attempted break in , auto sends an alarm to your phone. Don’t know , just thinking out loud. Car thieves get caught out plenty of times when gps trackers are hidden in cars ....maybe thieves should All just Jump off the top of tall buildings

[bladeracer]

Mayb a safe could have a camera focused on it , and if movement detected , send pictures / alarm to your phone. Or an internal switch, dectecting movement/ attempted break in , auto sends an alarm to your phone. Don’t know , just thinking out loud. Car thieves get caught out plenty of times when gps trackers are hidden in cars ....maybe thieves should All just Jump off the top of tall buildings

That's the setup I have, we can log-in to the CCTV via mobile phone if the alarm goes off.