Colorado supermarket Shooting

News and events in the media and political arena relating to firearms.

Re: Colorado supermarket Shooting

Post by Oldbloke » 25 Mar 2021, 8:36 pm

IMO there are a few reasons.

Too easy to get semi-autos of any type. Including large capacity mags.
Few states check criminal or mental back ground.
I don't think training is required in most states.
Far too many bad movies.
Culture that violence is the way to fix problems.
Lots of poor people
A few own about 90% of the wealth.
Medical attention is expensive
Mental help, probably almost impossible.
Little or no assistance for the unemployed
Lot of racism
Lots of drugs
People feel screwd by the crap capitalist political system
For many a feeling of helplessness
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Re: Colorado supermarket Shooting

Post by Ziege » 25 Mar 2021, 8:55 pm

womble wrote:Thanks but no thanks.
Australia s**ts all over the US in all global rankings, living standards, quality of life, freedom.
We do pay higher taxes though for all this. But then we get better wages and work leave here by far.

Back on topic, why the dramatic rise in mass shootings there over the past few years ?
I think this article breaks it down https://theconversation.com/mass-shootings-in-the-us-have-risen-sharply-in-2020-why-150981

And yes i chose an unbiased source https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-conversation/



might wanna roll back the freedom comment, we have pretty much 0 rights as people here and even less if left to our own countries constitution and law.
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Re: Colorado supermarket Shooting

Post by Ziege » 25 Mar 2021, 9:01 pm

Robin wrote:There is no reason for a mass shooting, its crazy whats happening over there and yet nothing gets done about it, yes knives can kill and even a .22 bolt action can kill many, however a ar15 can kill alot more in a short amount of time and put into the wrong hands, anything can happen.

While the US is having all these mass shootings, our public and Pollies are going to look at the US for example , we will never get automatics or semi autos while these shootings keep happening, I know im very safe and I'm assuming most hear are safe also, however what happens over there, gives our Pollies the ammo they need to stop us from having all the fun toys.



and AR-15 rifles are used in something like less than 0.5% of these shootings... whatever the stat genuinely is, it makes their use almost completely insignificant.

go figure.
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Re: Colorado supermarket Shooting

Post by wanneroo » 26 Mar 2021, 3:07 am

Oldbloke wrote:IMO there are a few reasons.

Too easy to get semi-autos of any type. Including large capacity mags.
Few states check criminal or mental back ground.
I don't think training is required in most states.
Far too many bad movies.
Culture that violence is the way to fix problems.
Lots of poor people
A few own about 90% of the wealth.
Medical attention is expensive
Mental help, probably almost impossible.
Little or no assistance for the unemployed
Lot of racism
Lots of drugs
People feel screwd by the crap capitalist political system
For many a feeling of helplessness


Sounds like you need to spend some time traveling the USA rather than getting all your info from ABC News.

Lots of complete inaccuracies and untruthful things above, but I think it's a lost cause to write a term paper explaining it all to you or debunking it.
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Re: Colorado supermarket Shooting

Post by wanneroo » 26 Mar 2021, 3:35 am

Ziege wrote:and AR-15 rifles are used in something like less than 0.5% of these shootings... whatever the stat genuinely is, it makes their use almost completely insignificant.

go figure.


That is true, semi auto rifles are only used in a very small percentage of homicides in the USA. More people get killed with bare hands than AR 15s in the USA.
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Re: Colorado supermarket Shooting

Post by womble » 26 Mar 2021, 3:46 am

Ziege wrote:
womble wrote:Thanks but no thanks.
Australia s**ts all over the US in all global rankings, living standards, quality of life, freedom.
We do pay higher taxes though for all this. But then we get better wages and work leave here by far.

Back on topic, why the dramatic rise in mass shootings there over the past few years ?
I think this article breaks it down https://theconversation.com/mass-shootings-in-the-us-have-risen-sharply-in-2020-why-150981

And yes i chose an unbiased source https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-conversation/



might wanna roll back the freedom comment, we have pretty much 0 rights as people here and even less if left to our own countries constitution and law.



What. Compared to the US. You are joking right. That place is practically a war zone. Just had three years of rioting in the streets ffs
Must be a f*cking big rock.

Pick a study, any independent global study/survey you want. We are well ahead of them by any and all measures.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_World_Liberty_Index
https://rsf.org/en/ranking_table
https://freedomhouse.org/countries/freedom-world/scores
https://www.heritage.org/index/ranking
https://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/human-freedom-index-2020.pdf
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Re: Colorado supermarket Shooting

Post by womble » 26 Mar 2021, 3:58 am

Robin wrote:There is no reason for a mass shooting, its crazy whats happening over there and yet nothing gets done about it, yes knives can kill and even a .22 bolt action can kill many, however a ar15 can kill alot more in a short amount of time and put into the wrong hands, anything can happen.

While the US is having all these mass shootings, our public and Pollies are going to look at the US for example , we will never get automatics or semi autos while these shootings keep happening, I know im very safe and I'm assuming most hear are safe also, however what happens over there, gives our Pollies the ammo they need to stop us from having all the fun toys.


So true.
Always gets rammed down our throats here. And in every other corner of the western world, no matter how far.
Don’t want to end up like the US blah blah. Not just guns either, restrictions on everything.
Not our f*cking problem. Why should we have to always miss out because they can’t manage their s**t.
Americans still don’t get it. There is no freedom from responsibility.
Selfish pricks even refuse to wear masks to look after their mates.
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Re: Colorado supermarket Shooting

Post by womble » 26 Mar 2021, 4:30 am

Your founding fathers were dumbasses.
Deal with it.
You don’t give kids on drugs assault rifles.
It’s remarkably stupid.
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Re: Colorado supermarket Shooting

Post by Oldbloke » 26 Mar 2021, 6:14 am

wanneroo wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:IMO there are a few reasons.

Too easy to get semi-autos of any type. Including large capacity mags.
Few states check criminal or mental back ground.
I don't think training is required in most states.
Far too many bad movies.
Culture that violence is the way to fix problems.
Lots of poor people
A few own about 90% of the wealth.
Medical attention is expensive
Mental help, probably almost impossible.
Little or no assistance for the unemployed
Lot of racism
Lots of drugs
People feel screwd by the crap capitalist political system
For many a feeling of helplessness


Sounds like you need to spend some time traveling the USA rather than getting all your info from ABC News.

Lots of complete inaccuracies and untruthful things above, but I think it's a lost cause to write a term paper explaining it all to you or debunking it.[/quote]

Well mate, if you wrote it you'd be right. :thumbsup:
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Re: Colorado supermarket Shooting

Post by Ziege » 26 Mar 2021, 9:52 am

womble wrote:Your founding fathers were dumbasses.
Deal with it.
You don’t give kids on drugs assault rifles.
It’s remarkably stupid.



that is a very ignorant and belligerent comment, and shows a complete lack of any grasp of the concept of gun ownership in the USA, mate you may as well go hand in all your guns and go join the greens.
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Re: Colorado supermarket Shooting

Post by Member-Deleted » 26 Mar 2021, 12:23 pm

Oldbloke wrote:Ziege you don't complain about licences for trucks, or aircraft.
Yet you never stop complaining about firearm licence restrictions.

Sooo what's the difference mate?


I'll chime in and say that firearms in the US are meant to prevent tyranny. They have other uses, but that is their primary purpose there. If a federal organisation is controlling your means of doing so, they are infringing on your rights to do so. Incase people haven't learned, tyrants take a mile when you do or don't give an inch. The principles are sound, but there are consequences. With everything there are consequences.

Definition of tyrant:
A cruel and oppressive ruler.

Definition of tyranny:
Cruel and oppressive government or rule.

However there are some historical writings from the likes of the founding fathers that I would like to share which you may find interesting.

From John Adams to Massachusetts Militia, 11 October 1798
To the Officers of the <, Start deletion,third, End,> first Brigade of the third Division of the Militia of Massachusetts
Quincy October 11. 1798

Gentlemen
I have received from Major General Hull and Brigadier General Walker your unanimous Address from Lexington, animated with a martial Spirit and expressed with a military Dignity, becoming your Characters and the <, Start deletion,Place, End,> memorable Plains, in which it was adopted.

While our Country remains untainted with the Principles and manners, which are now producing desolation in so many Parts of the World: while she continues Sincere and incapable of insidious and impious Policy: We shall have the Strongest Reason to rejoice in the local destination assigned Us by Providence. But should the People of America, once become capable of that deep <, Start deletion,[. . .], End,> simulation towards one another and towards foreign nations, which assumes the Language of Justice and moderation while it is practicing Iniquity and Extravagance; and displays in the most captivating manner the charming Pictures of Candour frankness & sincerity while it is rioting in rapine and Insolence: this Country will be the most miserable Habitation in the World. Because We have no Government armed with Power capable of contending with human Passions unbridled by <, Start deletion,[. . .], End,> morality and Religion. Avarice, Ambition <, Start deletion,and, End,> Revenge or Galantry, would break the strongest Cords of our Constitution as a Whale goes through a Net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious People. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other

An Address so unanimous and firm from the officers commanding two thousand Eight hundred Men, consisting of such substantial Citizens as are able and willing at their own Expence, compleatly to arm, And cloath themselves in handsome Uniforms does honor to that Division of the Militia which has done so much honor to their Country. Oaths, in this Country, are as yet universally considered as Sacred Obligations. That which you have taken and so solemnly repeated on that venerable Spot is an ample Pledge of your sincerity, and devotion to your Country and its Government.


Robert Winthrop, Speaker of the U. S. House,
"Men, in a word, must necessarily be controlled either by a power within them or by a power without them; either by the Word of God or by the strong arm of man; either by the Bible or by the bayonet."


George Washington, General of the Revolutionary Army, president of the Constitutional Convention, First President of the United States of America, Father of our nation,
"Religion and morality are the essential pillars of civil society."


Benjamin Franklin, Signer of the Declaration of Independence
"[O]nly a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters."
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Re: Colorado supermarket Shooting

Post by womble » 26 Mar 2021, 4:24 pm

That’s hardcore bangwhizz, but it’s the 17th century and these tossers are puritans, so no surprises there.
Here in Aus we have a separation of state and religion and a constitutional right to freedom of religion.
So yeah another freedom win smashing them out of the ballpark.
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Re: Colorado supermarket Shooting

Post by Member-Deleted » 26 Mar 2021, 5:02 pm

Oldbloke wrote:
BangWhizzClack wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:Ziege you don't complain about licences for trucks, or aircraft.
Yet you never stop complaining about firearm licence restrictions.

Sooo what's the difference mate?


I'll chime in and say that firearms in the US are meant to prevent tyranny. They have other uses, but that is their primary purpose there.
[/i]


Utter Bull s**t. We were not born in the last shower. Really if you believe that you are soooo gullible.

bulls**t detector.jpg


That is the purpose of the second amendment. It's not for hunting, sporting or home protection. It's to allow the people to effectively rise up and defeat tyrannical regimes. If you think that is not the case, then you sir, are the gullible one.
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Re: Colorado supermarket Shooting

Post by Oldbloke » 26 Mar 2021, 5:11 pm

BangWhizzClack wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:
BangWhizzClack wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:Ziege you don't complain about licences for trucks, or aircraft.
Yet you never stop complaining about firearm licence restrictions.

Sooo what's the difference mate?


I'll chime in and say that firearms in the US are meant to prevent tyranny. They have other uses, but that is their primary purpose there.
[/i]


Utter Bull s**t. We were not born in the last shower. Really if you believe that you are soooo gullible.

bulls**t detector.jpg


That is the purpose of the second amendment. It's not for hunting, sporting or home protection. It's to allow the people to effectively rise up and defeat tyrannical regimes. If you think that is not the case, then you sir, are the gullible one.


Yes, about 200 years ago when it was written. Totally out of date now. The people who wrote it could not possibly predict the mess and killings it has resulted in. They only had muzzle loaders back then. Times have changed.
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Re: Colorado supermarket Shooting

Post by Member-Deleted » 26 Mar 2021, 5:20 pm

womble wrote:That’s hardcore bangwhizz, but it’s the 17th century and these tossers are puritans, so no surprises there.
Here in Aus we have a separation of state and religion and a constitutional right to freedom of religion.
So yeah another freedom win smashing them out of the ballpark.


The Puritans founded Massachusetts, not America. The three kinds of religious settlers in early America were Christians (of different types, the Puritans just saw an opportunity to escape the oppression they were facing by the English), Deists and Theistic Rationalists (who were mostly involved with creating the Bill of Rights and the Constitution). Yes, the Bible was their Holy Book mostly and their morals essentially came from Christianity.

James Wilson, Signer of the Constitution; U. S. Supreme Court Justice,

"Human law must rest its authority ultimately upon the authority of that law which is divine. . . . Far from being rivals or enemies, religion and law are twin sisters, friends, and mutual assistants. Indeed, these two sciences run into each other."


James Wilson's religious affiliations were Episcopalian, Presbyterian.

In my opinion, the trouble with freedom of religion, is an eventual and unstoppable clash of the beliefs and cultures. Even with separation of church and state, it is impossible to run properly. If a religion is part of the culture, the Government needs to reflect that. That's just my opinion though.
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Re: Colorado supermarket Shooting

Post by womble » 26 Mar 2021, 5:42 pm

I disagree, the government needs to stay out of peoples personal lives. And people need to respect each other’s beliefs.
Live and let live. Pretty simple really, works for us.
I respect your opinion but freedom is’nt being ruled by somebody else’s invisible sky daddy.
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Re: Colorado supermarket Shooting

Post by womble » 26 Mar 2021, 5:46 pm

BangWhizzClack wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:
BangWhizzClack wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:Ziege you don't complain about licences for trucks, or aircraft.
Yet you never stop complaining about firearm licence restrictions.

Sooo what's the difference mate?


I'll chime in and say that firearms in the US are meant to prevent tyranny. They have other uses, but that is their primary purpose there.
[/i]


Utter Bull s**t. We were not born in the last shower. Really if you believe that you are soooo gullible.

bulls**t detector.jpg


That is the purpose of the second amendment. It's not for hunting, sporting or home protection. It's to allow the people to effectively rise up and defeat tyrannical regimes. If you think that is not the case, then you sir, are the gullible one.


100% correct
And also the core of their gun problem.
A well regulated militia. The never ending debates on interpretation.
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Re: Colorado supermarket Shooting

Post by womble » 26 Mar 2021, 6:00 pm

We are the new country on the block. Ourselves and New Zealand.
Our governments are the newest models. We chose all the good bits from the US and the UK and amalgamated them into the new right.
We left out all the bulls**t.
We have no historical restraints and we can do what we want.
We can be economically conservative and socially liberal. They can’t.
Australia FTW
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Re: Colorado supermarket Shooting

Post by Farmerpete » 26 Mar 2021, 6:26 pm

Oldbloke
You are correct times have changed that's why now the people should still have the right to equal arms, people are buying tanks and not long ago I saw a guy bought a decommissioned 20mm mini gun off an f18
Tanks and mini guns have only one purpose and it isn't mass murder.

They're not going to overthrow a tyrannical government with muzzle loaders but Tanks and mini guns will definitely help.

Every time someone makes the argument that an armed militia can't overthrow a government I point them not only to America's civil war but also to the fact that Switzerland is defended only by an armed militia.

As for not considering the current problems of the us.
With mass murder etc. They just came from a war that was caused because a tyrannical government was mass murdering all those that opposed them.

On a side note are you aware in oz we don't have the right to peaceful assembly or the right to free speech, if you disagree find it in our constitution.
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Re: Colorado supermarket Shooting

Post by Oldbloke » 26 Mar 2021, 7:20 pm

"On a side note are you aware in oz we don't have the right to peaceful assembly or the right to free speech, if you disagree find it in our constitution."

Looks a pretty good example of miss information.

Just because it isn't in the constitution does not mean we don't have the right.

E.g. road rules are not in the constitution mate. Be we have them
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Re: Colorado supermarket Shooting

Post by womble » 26 Mar 2021, 7:22 pm

We’re a colony, not a republic.
Our freedom of speech was enacted in 1689 bill of rights, English parliament.

Freedom of assembly. Haha try stopping us. We’re a signatory to seven different international human rights treaties.
Good luck getting any legislation through against it.

AUSTRALIA FTMFW
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Re: Colorado supermarket Shooting

Post by Oldbloke » 26 Mar 2021, 7:25 pm

womble wrote:We’re a colony, not a republic.
Our freedom of speech was enacted in 1689 bill of rights, English parliament.

Freedom of assembly. Haha try stopping us. We’re a signatory to seven different international human rights treaties.
Good luck getting any legislation through against it.

AUSTRALIA FTMFW


Just beat me to it. :thumbsup:
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Re: Colorado supermarket Shooting

Post by womble » 26 Mar 2021, 7:38 pm

Look we’re not perfect ok.
At least we have a continuous improvement model with power to the people. It was intentional not to have a bill of rights and a thorough constitution written in stone.
We can challenge anything in court.
We left it that way with the faith and belief in ourselves that the freedom of democracy would always let the will of the people rule the day.
We have zero risk of tyranny. Because only the peoples courts can exercise judicial power.
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Re: Colorado supermarket Shooting

Post by Oldbloke » 26 Mar 2021, 7:54 pm

If you google it, its down loadable as a pdf.

See: key guarantees.

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Re: Colorado supermarket Shooting

Post by on_one_wheel » 26 Mar 2021, 10:27 pm

I suggest Tara Air as it's the most hazardous airline in the world. :thumbsup:
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Re: Colorado supermarket Shooting

Post by wanneroo » 27 Mar 2021, 12:37 am

BangWhizzClack wrote:That is the purpose of the second amendment. It's not for hunting, sporting or home protection. It's to allow the people to effectively rise up and defeat tyrannical regimes.


That is the main purpose. It's a check on out of control government.

Just the past 100 years is litered with irrefutable examples of government tyranny slaughtering millions of defenseless citizens.

It also plays it's role in national defense. Would much of WW2 happened if citizens of countries that got invaded were all armed with AR-15s? I think not.

Switzerland let everyone know in WW1 and WW2 that there is an accurate rifle behind every blade of grass and nobody messed with Switzerland.
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Re: Colorado supermarket Shooting

Post by womble » 27 Mar 2021, 4:33 am

Does Tara airlines have flights to the 17th century ?
I’ll chip in for him
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Re: Colorado supermarket Shooting

Post by Oldbloke » 27 Mar 2021, 7:12 am

womble wrote:Does Tara airlines have flights to the 17th century ?
I’ll chip in for him


What a top idea. Perhaps someone here (who wants friendly discussions about firearms) can set up a fund raiser for Zieges airline ticket to the "Iand of the free, to shoot people in schools and shopping centres."

Hey, perhaps he watched a few too many of those "B" grade westerns when he was (or is) a child. Perhaps that explains his tantrums and tirades on here about not getting enough his way with guns.
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Re: Colorado supermarket Shooting

Post by Member-Deleted » 27 Mar 2021, 9:03 am

wanneroo wrote:
BangWhizzClack wrote:That is the purpose of the second amendment. It's not for hunting, sporting or home protection. It's to allow the people to effectively rise up and defeat tyrannical regimes.


That is the main purpose. It's a check on out of control government.

Just the past 100 years is litered with irrefutable examples of government tyranny slaughtering millions of defenseless citizens.

It also plays it's role in national defense. Would much of WW2 happened if citizens of countries that got invaded were all armed with AR-15s? I think not.

Switzerland let everyone know in WW1 and WW2 that there is an accurate rifle behind every blade of grass and nobody messed with Switzerland.


Spot on, and personally I'd say the US Government has demonstrated it's tyrannical practices and is well overdue for a rebellion. However, I'm terrified of what would result of it if the Woke Brigade had the opportunity to gain traction in new foundations. Many are too soft to effectively make change.
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Re: Colorado supermarket Shooting

Post by Member-Deleted » 27 Mar 2021, 9:17 am

[
Oldbloke wrote:Yes, physical violence is the answer isn't it ziege. The real goat comes out now.

Off you go. To the land of the free, to shoot each other in the street. Lol

Just for you mate. Sold the farm yet?

https://youtu.be/LXb28mVZiJo


You seem afraid that Australian's would shoot each other in the streets if they had open firearm policies or rights. The only thing stopping them supposedly are our glorious leaders and their firm control of us. Hardly a place of superiority. I've been through this before, folks talk a big game about funding a move, but never do. I had a group of people (anti-gunners) telling me they'd fundraise to have me move to a country of my choice, I gave them about 10 options and they fell silent. Never to be heard from again.

Also, quite the strategy you have there, it is often employed by the left, as is abundantly evident through Trump's presidency. Throw rocks at the bear until it reacts, then shame the bear for reacting. Also quite a feminine tactic. Similar to gaslighting.
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