Can you hear the war drums beating?

News and events in the media and political arena relating to firearms.

Re: Can you hear the war drums beating?

Post by bah! » 19 Apr 2021, 8:15 pm

womble wrote:Well at least you found a way to make sense of it bah :thumbsup:

Democracy is literally the opposite of communism and age old enemies. :


Sure but really right now, neither exist, The usa is a terrible example of libertarianism more than democracy and both there and here, voter education is too poor for an effective democracy to function, look at the kook vote harvesting with Craig Kelly going on about antvax s**t, some qanon person in kiribilli house on the staff, and 10 other conspiracies popular amogst voters, like the libs being good economic managers ;)
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Re: Can you hear the war drums beating?

Post by Oldbloke » 19 Apr 2021, 11:06 pm

bah! wrote:
womble wrote:Well at least you found a way to make sense of it bah :thumbsup:

Democracy is literally the opposite of communism and age old enemies. :


Sure but really right now, neither exist, The usa is a terrible example of libertarianism more than democracy and both there and here, voter education is too poor for an effective democracy to function, look at the kook vote harvesting with Craig Kelly going on about antvax s**t, some qanon person in kiribilli house on the staff, and 10 other conspiracies popular amogst voters, like the libs being good economic managers ;)


Yeh, like this is a budget emergency.

https://australiandebtclock.com.au/

WOW, I wonder what it was when Tony Abbott was crying about budget emergencies?
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Re: Can you hear the war drums beating?

Post by Oldbloke » 19 Apr 2021, 11:11 pm

Oh, here it is. :D :lol: Our hero's.

Lib graph.jpg
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Re: Can you hear the war drums beating?

Post by bah! » 20 Apr 2021, 7:18 am

Oldbloke wrote:Oh, here it is. :D :lol: Our hero's.]


Least even the west coast eagles fans booed Scummo when he was in WA just recently.
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Re: Can you hear the war drums beating?

Post by on_one_wheel » 20 Apr 2021, 9:52 am

Oldbloke wrote:Oh, here it is. :D :lol: Our hero's.

Lib graph.jpg


Watch it grow live http://australiandebtclock.com.au/
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Re: Can you hear the war drums beating?

Post by Bugman » 20 Apr 2021, 4:58 pm

All in all, I would like to agree with OB, but with harsher penalties for those that stuff up our hard earned shooting privileges. (or whatever you like to call them) and name and shame those idiots. just my opinion, mind you.
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Re: Can you hear the war drums beating?

Post by womble » 21 Apr 2021, 5:30 am

I dream of a world where chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned
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Re: Can you hear the war drums beating?

Post by Oldbloke » 21 Apr 2021, 10:52 am

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Re: Can you hear the war drums beating?

Post by bigrich » 21 Apr 2021, 12:22 pm

Oldbloke wrote:


Great place to raise a family. :sarcasm:


Be even better with more AR’s and handguns.
Thank god for the second amendment. Every drunken, drugged lunatic should have access to firearms :roll:
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Re: Can you hear the war drums beating?

Post by Oldbloke » 21 Apr 2021, 12:35 pm

bigrich wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:


Great place to raise a family. :sarcasm:


Be even better with more AR’s and handguns.
Thank god for the second amendment. Every drunken, drugged lunatic should have access to firearms :roll:


Yep, then they can take on the dodgy government. And everyone will live happily ever after a Ronald Reagan Western movie. :wtf: :ugeek: :shock:
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Re: Can you hear the war drums beating?

Post by Member-Deleted » 21 Apr 2021, 4:04 pm

bigrich wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:


Great place to raise a family. :sarcasm:


Be even better with more AR’s and handguns.
Thank god for the second amendment. Every drunken, drugged lunatic should have access to firearms :roll:


Drunken and drugged lunatics already have access to guns. Some legally, some not. More times, with greater functional capabilities than my own and less criminal prosecution for misuse. One could always just go the route of the Philippines. I know I want access and ability to the ability to defend myself and others effectively from all comers.
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Re: Can you hear the war drums beating?

Post by Bruiser64 » 23 Apr 2021, 11:37 pm

As far as I am concerned the citizens of the USA are free to organise their civil society however they see fit. Their society is very complex given they have a population of 350 million people. The gun laws in the US aren’t uniform, as they are a federation of 50 states. The federal, state and municipal jurisdictions can all pass firearms laws. So it isn’t at all a simple process to “change gun laws”. What laws in what jurisdictions? The citizens of Montana don’t want the citizens of New York telling them how to regulate their firearms use in their state. The other consideration is that the Second Amendment is considered sacrosanct by many Americans. It isn’t just about owning firearms, it is about defending against “tyranny”. Whether we Australians agree with that or not, is utterly irrelevant as we don’t live or vote there.

An interesting (but dreadful) thing to remember is that even though mass shootings have declined in Australia since the implementation of the National Firearms Agreement, mass killings have continued. The Bourke Street killings by Gargasoulas is a recent example. He killed 6 people. The Childers Backpackers fire killed 15 people. Brendan Sokaluk was convicted of killing 10 people in the 2009 Black Saturday bushfires. The Quakers Hill Nursing Home fire killed 11 people. So people have used different methods to kill people. All the victims are still dead irrespective of the method used.

This is not to say that I disagree with Australia’s approach to regulating firearms. I am just making the point that things are more complex than we prefer. Also the violently inclined will use whatever method comes to hand when seeking to perpetrate violence.
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Re: Can you hear the war drums beating?

Post by on_one_wheel » 23 Apr 2021, 11:53 pm

Well said Bruiser64
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Re: Can you hear the war drums beating?

Post by wanneroo » 24 Apr 2021, 1:49 am

I've seen this over 20 years now with Australians and Kiwis that have never traveled the USA and visited. Their only perspective is what the news media and hollywood force feeds them and of course few understand that's all propaganda designed to paint the picture they want.

The reality is different. As Bruiser mentioned, the United States is vast with 50 different states across thousands of miles, with different climates, geography, terrain, culture, dialects, etc and including all the illegal aliens we've got about 350 million people here. When something goes wrong in one place a lot of these people ignorant to all that blame all Americans but it's like blaming Estonians for something that happened in Spain.

If you take away 5-6 democrat run hell hole cities, the vast majority of the USA is some of the safest in the world statistically.

Those that knock the USA I find have never traveled around it and really don't know what they are talking about. They just barf up what they saw on a tv show or a news channel. If they actually come here and travel around to a few states at least, then I'd say their opinions have weight because they are based in reality and experience not controlled propaganda.
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Re: Can you hear the war drums beating?

Post by deye243 » 24 Apr 2021, 4:21 am

Oldbloke wrote:Oh, here it is. :D :lol: Our hero's.

Lib graph.jpg

It would be a hell of a lot worse if eachway elbow was in charge just have a look at what Dictator Dan has done .
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Re: Can you hear the war drums beating?

Post by Bugman » 24 Apr 2021, 7:45 am

wanneroo wrote:I've seen this over 20 years now with Australians and Kiwis that have never traveled the USA and visited. Their only perspective is what the news media and hollywood force feeds them and of course few understand that's all propaganda designed to paint the picture they want.

The reality is different. As Bruiser mentioned, the United States is vast with 50 different states across thousands of miles, with different climates, geography, terrain, culture, dialects, etc and including all the illegal aliens we've got about 350 million people here. When something goes wrong in one place a lot of these people ignorant to all that blame all Americans but it's like blaming Estonians for something that happened in Spain.

If you take away 5-6 democrat run hell hole cities, the vast majority of the USA is some of the safest in the world statistically.

Those that knock the USA I find have never traveled around it and really don't know what they are talking about. They just barf up what they saw on a tv show or a news channel. If they actually come here and travel around to a few states at least, then I'd say their opinions have weight because they are based in reality and experience not controlled propaganda.


Excellent point about travelling around the US. I have been lucky enough to do that and in 99% of places I went (cities and rural) I felt very safe.
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Re: Can you hear the war drums beating?

Post by Bruiser64 » 24 Apr 2021, 9:07 am

wanneroo wrote:I've seen this over 20 years now with Australians and Kiwis that have never traveled the USA and visited. Their only perspective is what the news media and hollywood force feeds them and of course few understand that's all propaganda designed to paint the picture they want.

The reality is different. As Bruiser mentioned, the United States is vast with 50 different states across thousands of miles, with different climates, geography, terrain, culture, dialects, etc and including all the illegal aliens we've got about 350 million people here. When something goes wrong in one place a lot of these people ignorant to all that blame all Americans but it's like blaming Estonians for something that happened in Spain.

If you take away 5-6 democrat run hell hole cities, the vast majority of the USA is some of the safest in the world statistically.

Those that knock the USA I find have never traveled around it and really don't know what they are talking about. They just barf up what they saw on a tv show or a news channel. If they actually come here and travel around to a few states at least, then I'd say their opinions have weight because they are based in reality and experience not controlled propaganda.


I personally give almost no weight to what the media present as news. Unfortunately for me I haven’t had the good fortune to travel to the USA. Everyone I have met who has been there loves it. I also know that in all societies violent individuals are pariahs. The overwhelming majority of the people you meet anywhere I have travelled in the world are kind, friendly and law abiding. Those people arent at all interesting to the media. There whole model thrives on the portrayal of conflict. So they have a huge incentive to portray the US as being a violent, dangerous place, when it really isn’t, based upon the research I have done. I can also understand why a peaceful law abiding firearms enthusiast doesn’t want to have their ability to engage in their hobby impeded when their is zero likelihood of them committing a firearms offence. So in reality there are no simple solutions to complex problems. The USA has a robust democracy and the people there appear to have very strong views in respect of their constitutional rights. For example, their right to free speech. As an example a large amount of the media comment in the USA before and after the Derek Chauvin trial would have been illegal in Australia under our sub judice rules. So we have very different societies and histories.
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Re: Can you hear the war drums beating?

Post by bah! » 24 Apr 2021, 10:06 pm

deye243 wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:Oh, here it is. :D :lol: Our hero's.

Lib graph.jpg

It would be a hell of a lot worse if eachway elbow was in charge just have a look at what Dictator Dan has done .


Dan has a s**t forestry policy and is trying to introduce the world's first tax on EVs, otherwise a top bloke.
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Re: Can you hear the war drums beating?

Post by bah! » 24 Apr 2021, 10:07 pm

wanneroo wrote:If you take away 5-6 democrat run hell hole cities, the vast majority of the USA is some of the safest in the world statistically.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Can you hear the war drums beating?

Post by bigrich » 24 Apr 2021, 11:18 pm

BangWhizzClack wrote:
I know I want access and ability to the ability to defend myself and others effectively from all comers.


such is the argument for firearms access by some . i don't live in fear that i have to use firearms to defend myself and castle law doesn't apply in australia , if you use a firearm on a intruder or aggressor in australia, your in deep sh!t and your firearms licence is gone . the self defence thing seems to crop up on this forum from time to time . as a "fit and proper person" your better off leaving your guns locked up and removing yourself from any bad situation if possible , and i probably wouldn't post self defence with a firearm on a public access forum . you don't know who could read it . it could be used to prove pre meditation

we are not living with american laws . we don't have the second amendment . we are a british colonial country and have no rights to firearms . if we don't play nicely within what laws we have you loose them . it's important that we try to retain what rights we do have . i'm a NSC and shooters union member cause they fight to protect what we do have . oh yeah , i'm also a ssaa member, not that they seem to do much politically

anyway , enough for a quiet saturday night , cheers all :thumbsup:
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Re: Can you hear the war drums beating?

Post by Member-Deleted » 25 Apr 2021, 12:55 am

bigrich wrote:
BangWhizzClack wrote:
I know I want access and ability to the ability to defend myself and others effectively from all comers.


such is the argument for firearms access by some . i don't live in fear that i have to use firearms to defend myself and castle law doesn't apply in australia , if you use a firearm on a intruder or aggressor in australia, your in deep sh!t and your firearms licence is gone . the self defence thing seems to crop up on this forum from time to time . as a "fit and proper person" your better off leaving your guns locked up and removing yourself from any bad situation if possible , and i probably wouldn't post self defence with a firearm on a public access forum . you don't know who could read it . it could be used to prove pre meditation

we are not living with american laws . we don't have the second amendment . we are a british colonial country and have no rights to firearms . if we don't play nicely within what laws we have you loose them . it's important that we try to retain what rights we do have . i'm a NSC and shooters union member cause they fight to protect what we do have . oh yeah , i'm also a ssaa member, not that they seem to do much politically

anyway , enough for a quiet saturday night , cheers all :thumbsup:


Anyone who is serious about security understands premeditation is absolutely necessary. One rarely survives nasty situations through sheer dumb luck. I can justify my actions in court, using current law if you can't, then you will have serious issues. But, even if you were punished because of our stupid laws, then hey, at least you lived to tell the tale ;) my comments being read by police or activists doesn't bother me anymore, it is clear that prior approaches did not work.
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Re: Can you hear the war drums beating?

Post by womble » 25 Apr 2021, 4:21 am

Firearms don’t play a part in home security here. If you have a contingency plan it should be focused on survival, not confrontation.
No matter how well you think you know the law, if you use a gun you are going to made an example of. And that’s going to come down from high up.


I found this video of interest in relation the americas mass shooter phenomenon. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=K3VQULyT390


I don’t really see anything bad in what Biden wants to indroduce. But like here it would only target law abiding peaceful folk.
Would’nt have any effect in reducing gun violence and crime.
Holding up Australia’s gun control as a standard to adopt is a lie. There’s nothing in it than has achieved a reduction in criminal use. Moreso the opposite as banning firearms effectively deregulated them for criminal enterprise.

There’s definitely hope for improvement in America. The public wants it more than ever. I think theres at least a push coming from Biden to address the cultural views. To treat mass shootings as the tragedies they truly are, in a society that has become numb.
From an outside perspective i only see conundrum. In a peaceful society you should be free to pursue a good, happy, prosperous life. But anyone else having the freedom to take that from you in a split second, that’s just a contradiction.

I don’t see solutions being offered up from the pro gun side, like funny man with funny voice in op’s post.
I actually see a fair degree of denial unfortunately.
But i think it’s possible that’s where the solutions are to be found. Ask the people who know about guns how we can effect a safer community.
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Re: Can you hear the war drums beating?

Post by cz515 » 25 Apr 2021, 6:49 am

Sarcastic content follows

Everyone who talks about home intruders and ability to shoot. Why do you need a gun to feel secure? do you live in a ghetto? Ffs have you such a small appendage that you need a big metal object under your pillow to feel safe?

Ok here is the fact, how many times have you heard of break n entry on news in aus. How many times from that the occupants were safe the next day... cuz the slept through?

How light sleeper are you, and how dumb do you think a guy coming to steal your car keys etc, will he goto kitchen smash up the pots and pans to first wake you up, so that you can fetch the firearm stored under your bed and allow you to shoot him?

The reality is they will likely come armed and shot you first before you become a problem...or just use your own firearm against you. So a burglary suddenly becomes a homicide.

In America how many mass shootings, home invasions have actuality been stopped by these tiny dk ppl with their 20" revolvers that they carrying on person every year. The fact is every day they have multiple multi fatalities all over the country (including state that allow concealed carry rules)

Then you compare to countries like Australia, NZ, UK most European countries, they have little access to firearms.... less crime and less deaths per 100,000 people and that is an undeniable fact.
Last edited by cz515 on 25 Apr 2021, 6:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Can you hear the war drums beating?

Post by bigrich » 25 Apr 2021, 6:51 am

womble wrote:Firearms don’t play a part in home security here. If you have a contingency plan it should be focused on survival, not confrontation.
No matter how well you think you know the law, if you use a gun you are going to made an example of. And that’s going to come down from high up.


I found this video of interest in relation the americas mass shooter phenomenon. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=K3VQULyT390


I don’t really see anything bad in what Biden wants to indroduce. But like here it would only target law abiding peaceful folk.
Would’nt have any effect in reducing gun violence and crime.
Holding up Australia’s gun control as a standard to adopt is a lie. There’s nothing in it than has achieved a reduction in criminal use. Moreso the opposite as banning firearms effectively deregulated them for criminal enterprise.

There’s definitely hope for improvement in America. The public wants it more than ever. I think theres at least a push coming from Biden to address the cultural views. To treat mass shootings as the tragedies they truly are, in a society that has become numb.
From an outside perspective i only see conundrum. In a peaceful society you should be free to pursue a good, happy, prosperous life. But anyone else having the freedom to take that from you in a split second, that’s just a contradiction.

I don’t see solutions being offered up from the pro gun side, like funny man with funny voice in op’s post.
I actually see a fair degree of denial unfortunately.
But i think it’s possible that’s where the solutions are to be found. Ask the people who know about guns how we can effect a safer community.


i agree with all this :thumbsup:
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Re: Can you hear the war drums beating?

Post by bigrich » 25 Apr 2021, 6:53 am

cz515 wrote:Sarcastic content follows

Everyone who talks about home intruders and ability to shoot. Why do you need a gun to feel secure? do you live in a ghetto? Ffs have you such a small appendage that you need a big metal object under your pillow to feel safe?

Ok here is the fact, how many times have you heard of break n entry on news in aus. How many times from that the occupants were safe the next day... cuz the slept through?

How light sleeper are you, and how dumb do you think a guy coming to steal your car keys etc, will he goto kitchen smash up the pots and pans to first wake you up, so that you can fetch the firearm stored under your bed and allow you to shoot him?

The reality is they will likely come armed and shot you first before you become a problem...or just use your own firearm against you. So a burglary suddenly becomes a homicide.

In America how many mass shootings, home invasions have actuality been stopped by these tiny dk ppl with their 20" revolvers that they carrying on person every year. The fact is every day they have multiple multi fatalities all over the country (including state that allow concealed carry rules)

Then you compare to countries like Australia, NZ, UK most European countries, they have little access to firearms.... less crime and less deaths per 100,000 people and that is an undeniable fact.


i agree with this too :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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Re: Can you hear the war drums beating?

Post by straightshooter » 25 Apr 2021, 6:55 am

Oh what fun, watching the ineducable trying to educate others!
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Re: Can you hear the war drums beating?

Post by bigrich » 25 Apr 2021, 7:11 am

BangWhizzClack wrote:
my comments being read by police or activists doesn't bother me anymore, it is clear that prior approaches did not work.




do as you will BWC, i'm not ragging on you . but i wouldn't be so lacking in caution . it's a deliberate thing that the term "fit and proper person" can be interpreted in many different ways by the authorities . and after a internal revue , the public servants in WLB have gone into overdrive with cancelling licenses and knocking back license applications . at least here in QLD they have

:thumbsup:
Last edited by bigrich on 25 Apr 2021, 9:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Can you hear the war drums beating?

Post by bigrich » 25 Apr 2021, 7:14 am

straightshooter wrote:Oh what fun, watching the ineducable trying to educate others!


yeah well , so long as it's civil and respectful , everyone's got a right to voice a opinion on a forum . even if they agree to disagree :thumbsup:
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Re: Can you hear the war drums beating?

Post by Bugman » 25 Apr 2021, 8:23 am

bigrich wrote:
straightshooter wrote:Oh what fun, watching the ineducable trying to educate others!


yeah well , so long as it's civil and respectful , everyone's got a right to voice a opinion on a forum . even if they agree to disagree :thumbsup:



DITTO to that.
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Re: Can you hear the war drums beating?

Post by cz515 » 25 Apr 2021, 9:29 am

bigrich wrote:
straightshooter wrote:Oh what fun, watching the ineducable trying to educate others!


yeah well , so long as it's civil and respectful , everyone's got a right to voice a opinion on a forum . even if they agree to disagree :thumbsup:


Ohh I forgot this is a dictatorship can't disagree with people who want to carry firearms and their 2A rights....in Australia. Easy solution, you are in a democracy get the law voted through..... or the reality is that 98% of the voters think this idea is loony tunes. In that situation you can move to a country that allows all this stuff. :welcome:
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