Extreme Force-VicPol's behaviour during storage inspection.

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Extreme Force-VicPol's behaviour during storage inspection.

Post by NSC » 28 Apr 2021, 9:13 am

A 79 year old Shooter who is also an NSC Member, has experienced treatment from VicPol during a a Storage Inspection, that has left everyone shocked and horrified!!

Full story below:

https://www.nationalshooting.org.au/ext ... l5X181NL-Y

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Re: Extreme Force-VicPol's behaviour during storage inspecti

Post by bladeracer » 28 Apr 2021, 9:22 am

That is disgusting. Has he at least been able to identify the officers?
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Re: Extreme Force-VicPol's behaviour during storage inspecti

Post by NSC » 28 Apr 2021, 9:30 am

bladeracer wrote:That is disgusting. Has he at least been able to identify the officers?



No......the NSC has made its own enquiries and we believe one of the two involved may be a DFO (Divisional FirearmsOfficer) and are waiting confirmation.

If a DFO was involved then the story is even more disturbing!

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Post by on_one_wheel » 28 Apr 2021, 9:54 am

Assholes.

In other news, police have been busted dealing drugs.
What is this country coming to.
It's getting very hard to trust those who enforce the law.
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Re: Extreme Force-VicPol's behaviour during storage inspecti

Post by No1_49er » 28 Apr 2021, 9:57 am

Even more disturbing is that they (if indeed they were 'Police') were not wearing their ID, or had it in/conveniently obscured.
Body cam's? Oh, they failed? Nothing to see here - move along.
Is it any wonder that the shooting fraternity, and others, are more inclined to think that police think that they are operating a "police state"?
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Re: Extreme Force-VicPol's behaviour during storage inspecti

Post by on_one_wheel » 28 Apr 2021, 10:06 am

I hope he manages to sue the living f#€k out of them.
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Re: Extreme Force-VicPol's behaviour during storage inspecti

Post by Bugman » 28 Apr 2021, 10:19 am

If this is an example of " Victoria's finest", then heaven help us all. I know there are good coppers out there, but they appear to be harder and harder to find. :thumbsdown:
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Re: Extreme Force-VicPol's behaviour during storage inspecti

Post by wanneroo » 28 Apr 2021, 10:35 am

I would sue, sue, sue and sue.

The police in Victoria have been out of control for decades so no surprise at anything they do anymore.
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Re: Extreme Force-VicPol's behaviour during storage inspecti

Post by JimmyS » 28 Apr 2021, 10:35 am

So he opened the door for them, and they proceeded to throw him to the ground and handcuff him, without any hesitation or provocation from the old timer? They also did not identify themselves, and took his firearms and ammo, stating his licence was suspended?
This sounds oddly suspicious, i.e. they may not have been members of Vic Pol, though if they were...
I hope a s**t show is rained down upon these two officers like never before.
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Post by Dedd » 28 Apr 2021, 12:39 pm

I can only think of three plausible possibilities:

1. "Stuart" is telling the truth and this all happened.

2. He made it all up, and had his firearms confiscated peacefully. The bruises presumably being self-inflicted.

3. He resisted confiscation resulting in the police acting aggressively. Meaning everything happened, but the story was manipulated. If the "mental unsuitability" reason for confiscation is real, then this (and option 2) is entirely possible.

I guess we'll see what evidence turns up. If the cops actually had body cams and there's no footage, I'll be leaning towards the first option. I've noticed cams running for simple traffic stops so I doubt they'd be switched off for a firearms confiscation.

However, I wouldn't jump to conclusions yet. All we have to go on is one man's word and some bruises. I feel the body cams (on or off) and the ambulance drivers will be the big ticket evidence. If the ambos give testimony that they turned up to an injured man, no police, and < 1 hour after records show the police were there, then that's pretty suspicious. Plus if the police called them (probably proven by 000 recordings) but weren't there when they arrived, that's pretty damning. Why would they need to call an ambulance for someone, but not need to stick around to protect the ambos, unless he wasn't a threat in the first place?

JimmyS wrote:So he opened the door for them, and they proceeded to throw him to the ground and handcuff him, without any hesitation or provocation from the old timer? They also did not identify themselves, and took his firearms and ammo, stating his licence was suspended?
This sounds oddly suspicious, i.e. they may not have been members of Vic Pol, though if they were...
I hope a s**t show is rained down upon these two officers like never before.


They were definitely police, otherwise VicPol wouldn't have records of him losing his licence. I doubt there's long period of time between someone losing their licence and having their guns confiscated.
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Re: Extreme Force-VicPol's behaviour during storage inspecti

Post by No1Mk3 » 28 Apr 2021, 12:48 pm

I'm with Dedd, there's more to this than meets the eye. A visit from what is most likely local Police could be due to comments, either at the shops, pub or social media about shooting pollies, greenies etc can precipitate a loss of firearms and request for mental health status as could many other behaviours. The matter, Prima Facie, does need investigation but we need to see where that leads to. By the way, this isn't America, Police here in Victoria have an absolute right at Law to search your person or property without Warrant if they have grounds to believe an offence has been, or may about to be, committed especially regarding the Firearms Act, Cheers.
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Re: Extreme Force-VicPol's behaviour during storage inspecti

Post by Larry » 28 Apr 2021, 1:15 pm

It could perhaps also be reported as
Police conducting drug bust at a rural property were approached by a man carrying a gun. Police then disarmed the man without any shots being fired. the man was taken to hospital for observation and to be interviewed by police tomorrow.

There are normally two sides to a story in this case the reporting seems to be very one sided. We should expect better from all parties reporting on matters.

I am not saying it didnt happen exactly as described but read carefully. The man was on his way to cull vermin by shooting. It indicates he was possibly carrying a gun. He was on his way to his neighbors he was more than likely outside walking over there. the police were at the neighbors nothing about them going to his place . A lot of gaps in the story
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Re: Extreme Force-VicPol's behaviour during storage inspecti

Post by Dedd » 28 Apr 2021, 1:42 pm

Larry wrote:It could perhaps also be reported as
Police conducting drug bust at a rural property were approached by a man carrying a gun. Police then disarmed the man without any shots being fired. the man was taken to hospital for observation and to be interviewed by police tomorrow.

There are normally two sides to a story in this case the reporting seems to be very one sided. We should expect better from all parties reporting on matters.

I am not saying it didnt happen exactly as described but read carefully. The man was on his way to cull vermin by shooting. It indicates he was possibly carrying a gun. He was on his way to his neighbors he was more than likely outside walking over there. the police were at the neighbors nothing about them going to his place . A lot of gaps in the story


Maybe. If it was a drug bust, or Stuart was a threat, there would be plenty of evidence to support it. We'll have to wait.
However, if the police saw Stuart as a threat, why didn't they take him to the station? Or even stick around to protect the ambos? There's a lot of questions, and if VicPol don't answer them with the abundance of evidence something like this should have then I'm going to suspect a coverup.
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Re: Extreme Force-VicPol's behaviour during storage inspecti

Post by Larry » 28 Apr 2021, 2:15 pm

I would be very surprised if the police didnt wait until the ambos got there. They wait around in nearly all other circumstances like road accidents kind of like a hand over of responsibility of care. More will have to come out I would think. But silly to draw conclusions based on what is available ATM.
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Re: Extreme Force-VicPol's behaviour during storage inspecti

Post by Oldbloke » 28 Apr 2021, 2:25 pm

My comment fom the other thread.

WOW, I got a feeling there is more to this. Just hope Stuart is OK and it all works out for him.

Edit: I just wonder if a new neighbour has seen Stuart walk around the back yard with a firearm, panicked and called the police who also over reacted?

Something not right here.
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Re: Extreme Force-VicPol's behaviour during storage inspecti

Post by NSC » 28 Apr 2021, 4:36 pm

For all those speculating here with their theories:

1: Stuart was NOT carrying a gun in his backyard and he DID not fake his own injuries.

2:It was NOT a "drug bust" and he has NOT been charged with anything.

3:VicPol DID call an ambulance and then left him alone.

4:LRD(Registry) have written to Stuart advising that his licence suspension WILL be lifted and his firearms returned upon presentation of satisfactory medical reports.

5.Both the NSC and Stuarts local MP, Bev McArthur, are comfortable in supporting Stuart.

The NSC now has information RE the identity of the two VicPol members involved and has received other reports seperately RE conduct and behaviour of one of the two members involved!

Whilst we are taught as children that the Police are the "good guys" sadly in Victoria over the last few years VICPOL has shown an increasing tendency to use excessive force and has even shot innocent people that has resulted in millions of $ in taxpayer funded "out of court" settlements.

We are really disappointed to read some of the comments here.

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Re: Extreme Force-VicPol's behaviour during storage inspecti

Post by Dedd » 28 Apr 2021, 5:42 pm

NSC wrote:For all those speculating here with their theories:

1: Stuart was NOT carrying a gun in his backyard and he DID not fake his own injuries.

2:It was NOT a "drug bust" and he has NOT been charged with anything.

3:VicPol DID call an ambulance and then left him alone.

4:LRD(Registry) have written to Stuart advising that his licence suspension WILL be lifted and his firearms returned upon presentation of satisfactory medical reports.

5.Both the NSC and Stuarts local MP, Bev McArthur, are comfortable in supporting Stuart.

The NSC now has information RE the identity of the two VicPol members involved and has received other reports seperately RE conduct and behaviour of one of the two members involved!

Whilst we are taught as children that the Police are the "good guys" sadly in Victoria over the last few years VICPOL has shown an increasing tendency to use excessive force and has even shot innocent people that has resulted in millions of $ in taxpayer funded "out of court" settlements.

We are really disappointed to read some of the comments here.

NSC


The fact that NSC and an MP have backed him up is probably relevant to his character and an element I didn't consider. But these comments are formed around the information we were given, which was "someone claimed police assaulted them."
Given I was the only one to mention "faking his own injuries" I should clarify that I was simply putting it forward as an option. I don't know Stuart, and I don't know his character. I am not going to believe him just because you do (nor am I going to disbelieve him just because VicPol wants me to). I am certainly open to believing he is telling the truth, but innocent until proven guilty goes both ways.
Once there is more information I will be able to form my opinion then.

I'm glad you were able to clarify some of the questions we had, and more importantly, found the IDs of the officers. The fact that the LRD is willing to lift his suspension (and he wasn't charged) has me skeptical that they thought he was an imminent threat.
I'll definitely be watching closely for further updates. Good luck!

Quick edit: Do we have any info regarding the body cams?
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Re: Extreme Force-VicPol's behaviour during storage inspecti

Post by rossfrb » 28 Apr 2021, 6:09 pm

The article states that the police were plain clothed.
I don't know under what circumstances or role Vic police wear civies instead of a uniform.
This guy was out on a farm in regional Victoria - he'd likely know the local copper
This doesnt sound like your local coppers to me, which makes it even more odd.
Be interesting to find out the full truth of the matter.
rb
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Post by Member-Deleted » 28 Apr 2021, 6:16 pm

Imagine that... VICPOL giving you trauma and then having the gall to say "we no longer give you permission to have guns because we caused you said trauma and we are concerned about your mental health. We realise we just f***ed you up mentally, but feel free to pay for a mental health professional or use a state-sponsored psychologist to confirm that we have f***ed you up mentally or risk their career by saying you're fine. If that is the case, we will consider giving it back, but probably won't".
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Re: Extreme Force-VicPol's behaviour during storage inspecti

Post by NSC » 28 Apr 2021, 6:49 pm

rossfrb wrote:The article states that the police were plain clothed.
I don't know under what circumstances or role Vic police wear civies instead of a uniform.
This guy was out on a farm in regional Victoria - he'd likely know the local copper
This doesnt sound like your local coppers to me, which makes it even more odd.
Be interesting to find out the full truth of the matter.
rb


It is NOT uncommon for VicPol to turn up in plain clothes for a storage inspection.

We know a case personally where 6 of them rocked up to do a "storage inspection" in 3 seperate unmarked cars (It's called sending a message/Intimidation)!
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Re: Extreme Force-VicPol's behaviour during storage inspecti

Post by disco stu » 28 Apr 2021, 7:14 pm

NSC wrote:
We are really disappointed to read some of the comments here.

NSC


In all fairness, how often are we told half the story, get up in arms, then finally hear all the facts and realise things were very different to what we were first told. I think it's only healthy for people to question things, and I didn't see anyone can the article BS, just outwardly wondered if there was more to it.

Thankfully all of my dealings with police re firearms have been very positive. That's not my experience with all dealings though
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Re: Extreme Force-VicPol's behaviour during storage inspecti

Post by InisBineest » 28 Apr 2021, 7:45 pm

disco stu wrote:
NSC wrote:
We are really disappointed to read some of the comments here.

NSC


In all fairness, how often are we told half the story, get up in arms, then finally hear all the facts and realise things were very different to what we were first told. I think it's only healthy for people to question things, and I didn't see anyone can the article BS, just outwardly wondered if there was more to it.

Thankfully all of my dealings with police re firearms have been very positive. That's not my experience with all dealings though



I'm a NSC member, and happy to see this looked into. That said, I agree with the statement above. Too often this happens with many sources of media and it often makes those with their arms still in the air look like idiots. That said, there is no reason this matter should not be investigated by any legally able party until the whole story is about to come out, and i'm glad the NSC, among others, are onto it.
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Re: Extreme Force-VicPol's behaviour during storage inspecti

Post by Dedd » 28 Apr 2021, 8:11 pm

InisBineest wrote:
disco stu wrote:
NSC wrote:
We are really disappointed to read some of the comments here.

NSC


In all fairness, how often are we told half the story, get up in arms, then finally hear all the facts and realise things were very different to what we were first told. I think it's only healthy for people to question things, and I didn't see anyone can the article BS, just outwardly wondered if there was more to it.

Thankfully all of my dealings with police re firearms have been very positive. That's not my experience with all dealings though



I'm a NSC member, and happy to see this looked into. That said, I agree with the statement above. Too often this happens with many sources of media and it often makes those with their arms still in the air look like idiots. That said, there is no reason this matter should not be investigated by any legally able party until the whole story is about to come out, and i'm glad the NSC, among others, are onto it.


Exactly. Thank you two for saying it better than I am able to.

I am looking forward to hearing the full details of the case. Hell, I'd love it if the NSC posts any logs etc they dig up, but that be my curiosity getting the better of me!
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Re: Extreme Force-VicPol's behaviour during storage inspecti

Post by Oldbloke » 28 Apr 2021, 8:24 pm

Just hope it works out ok for him.

Don't see why he needs a medical report if he's done nothing wrong. Like an accusation with no proof.
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Re: Extreme Force-VicPol's behaviour during storage inspecti

Post by ZaineB » 28 Apr 2021, 8:25 pm

whether he is guilty or not two cops presumably in their 30s don't need to beat the snot out of a nearly 80 year old bloke, sack them both and never give them a job with "authority" ever again, clearly cowards.
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Re: Extreme Force-VicPol's behaviour during storage inspecti

Post by ZaineB » 28 Apr 2021, 8:29 pm

rossfrb wrote:The article states that the police were plain clothed.
I don't know under what circumstances or role Vic police wear civies instead of a uniform.
This guy was out on a farm in regional Victoria - he'd likely know the local copper
This doesnt sound like your local coppers to me, which makes it even more odd.
Be interesting to find out the full truth of the matter.
rb



I personally dont think there should be any unmarked cars, plain clothes cops, or anything clandestine about publicly paid officers, if they want to wear trendy outfits and feel powerful they should stick to private security gigs, there is absolutely no reason for police to be in unmarked vehicles and or not be wearing a standardized uniform.
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Re: Extreme Force-VicPol's behaviour during storage inspecti

Post by No1Mk3 » 29 Apr 2021, 9:45 am

Way out in the boonies ZaineB, 10 million reasons why plainclothes/unmarked are essential for law enforcement and have done since the days of Sir Robert Peel. Everything from not letting crooks know they're on to them to visiting victims of crime without advertising to all and sundry that someone is interacting with cops to not intimidating sexual/domestic violence victims with over authoritarian looks and countless other reasons. And they didn't "beat the snot out of him", inflammatory garbage as the photos of the gentleman prove, he was roughly and unreasonably manhandled in an intimidating and completely un-necessary way causing bruising to his arms and body with slight grazing to his face, hopefully grounds for both officers to become unemployed.
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Re: Extreme Force-VicPol's behaviour during storage inspecti

Post by Oldbloke » 29 Apr 2021, 4:03 pm

No1Mk3 wrote:Way out in the boonies ZaineB, 10 million reasons why plainclothes/unmarked are essential for law enforcement and have done since the days of Sir Robert Peel. Everything from not letting crooks know they're on to them to visiting victims of crime without advertising to all and sundry that someone is interacting with cops to not intimidating sexual/domestic violence victims with over authoritarian looks and countless other reasons. And they didn't "beat the snot out of him", inflammatory garbage as the photos of the gentleman prove, he was roughly and unreasonably manhandled in an intimidating and completely un-necessary way causing bruising to his arms and body with slight grazing to his face, hopefully grounds for both officers to become unemployed.


:thumbsup:
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Re: Extreme Force-VicPol's behaviour during storage inspecti

Post by ZaineB » 29 Apr 2021, 6:18 pm

No1Mk3 wrote:Way out in the boonies ZaineB, 10 million reasons why plainclothes/unmarked are essential for law enforcement and have done since the days of Sir Robert Peel. Everything from not letting crooks know they're on to them to visiting victims of crime without advertising to all and sundry that someone is interacting with cops to not intimidating sexual/domestic violence victims with over authoritarian looks and countless other reasons. And they didn't "beat the snot out of him", inflammatory garbage as the photos of the gentleman prove, he was roughly and unreasonably manhandled in an intimidating and completely un-necessary way causing bruising to his arms and body with slight grazing to his face, hopefully grounds for both officers to become unemployed.



completely disagree. no middle ground to be had there.
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Re: Extreme Force-VicPol's behaviour during storage inspecti

Post by InisBineest » 13 Jun 2021, 8:50 am

NSC, is there any reportable progress on this one?
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