Stabbing hero pinged by NTPOL for saving neighbour

News and events in the media and political arena relating to firearms.

Stabbing hero pinged by NTPOL for saving neighbour

Post by NSC » 09 May 2021, 5:52 pm

A story that should make all shooters angry.

NTPOL have pinged a man who saved a neighbour who had been stabbed!

Full story below

https://www.nationalshooting.org.au/sta ... neighbour/


NSC
NSC
Private
Private
 
Posts: 82
Victoria

Re: Stabbing hero pinged by NTPOL for saving neighbour

Post by on_one_wheel » 09 May 2021, 6:12 pm

I'll probably get flamed for this but....
I find it hard to feel sorry for Ron in this case.

He would have been far better off arming himself with a club of sorts.

The law is clear cut when it comes to self defence and firearms in Australia.
Gun control requires concentration and a steady hand
User avatar
on_one_wheel
Lieutenant
Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2403
South Australia

Re: Stabbing hero pinged by NTPOL for saving neighbour

Post by deye243 » 09 May 2021, 7:49 pm

What bloody self-defense we do not have the right to any self-defence
deye243
Warrant Officer C2
Warrant Officer C2
 
Posts: 1184
Victoria

Re: Stabbing hero pinged by NTPOL for saving neighbour

Post by Oldbloke » 09 May 2021, 7:54 pm

on_one_wheel wrote:I'll probably get flamed for this but....
I find it hard to feel sorry for Ron in this case.

He would have been far better off arming himself with a club of sorts.

The law is clear cut when it comes to self defence and firearms in Australia.


Lol perhaps.

Unfortunately your pretty right. No point going crook at the cops. Its tha law that's up ship Creek. They simply apply it. With the help of NSC and casting a vote every few a years hopefully it will improve. At the moment its pretty black and white. We need a few "shades of grey."
Good manners are free. Hunt safe, look after the bush & plug more pests. :thumbsup: The greatest invention in the history of man is beer. :drinks: Text alone does not convey the full message. Practice good hygiene.
User avatar
Oldbloke
General
General
 
Posts: 7113
Victoria

Re: Stabbing hero pinged by NTPOL for saving neighbour

Post by Larry » 09 May 2021, 9:11 pm

Another story where a lot of context is not given. To me the decision to take a gun with him could be seen either way depending on environment. I mean is this an area of 1/4 acre blocks or is it 500m between properties. If it was a rural setting how could he know such detail about the person in the driveway. And another neighbor to also see the circumstances. If it was suburban and 1/4 acre lots then taking a gun with so many people around is not a good idea unless you are under fire.
Larry
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 261
-

Re: Stabbing hero pinged by NTPOL for saving neighbour

Post by on_one_wheel » 09 May 2021, 11:12 pm

deye243 wrote:What bloody self-defense we do not have the right to any self-defence


We have a right to defend ourselves, provided you don't go over the top. We're not expecting to take it laying down.
Gun control requires concentration and a steady hand
User avatar
on_one_wheel
Lieutenant
Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2403
South Australia

Re: Stabbing hero pinged by NTPOL for saving neighbour

Post by on_one_wheel » 09 May 2021, 11:17 pm

Larry wrote:Another story where a lot of context is not given. To me the decision to take a gun with him could be seen either way depending on environment. I mean is this an area of 1/4 acre blocks or is it 500m between properties. If it was a rural setting how could he know such detail about the person in the driveway. And another neighbor to also see the circumstances. If it was suburban and 1/4 acre lots then taking a gun with so many people around is not a good idea unless you are under fire.


Property size, urban setting is completely irrelevant.
There is no difference in using a firearm for self defence in a remote location or a block of flats in inner Sydney. Its a breach of licence conditions either way.

It will be interesting to watch this one, while its a licence breach, it may not necessarily be against the law due to the fact that self defence revolves around,
Perceived threat / justifiable measures .. or something along those lines
Gun control requires concentration and a steady hand
User avatar
on_one_wheel
Lieutenant
Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2403
South Australia

Re: Stabbing hero pinged by NTPOL for saving neighbour

Post by Gamerancher » 10 May 2021, 9:07 am

So he was worried about his neighbour bleeding out but had time to retrieve his firearm, load it up and then attend the victim??
Sorry, but I reckon he's up sh!t creek on this one.
User avatar
Gamerancher
Warrant Officer C1
Warrant Officer C1
 
Posts: 1339
New South Wales

Re: Stabbing hero pinged by NTPOL for saving neighbour

Post by Oldbloke » 10 May 2021, 12:44 pm

Gamerancher wrote:So he was worried about his neighbour bleeding out but had time to retrieve his firearm, load it up and then attend the victim??
Sorry, but I reckon he's up sh!t creek on this one.


We don't have all the facts.

But, if you need a firearm urgently to defend yourself, how do you get it (quickly) and load it if its locked in the safe? Doesn't seem to work. Not saying its right or wrong, just that is a "catch 22".
Good manners are free. Hunt safe, look after the bush & plug more pests. :thumbsup: The greatest invention in the history of man is beer. :drinks: Text alone does not convey the full message. Practice good hygiene.
User avatar
Oldbloke
General
General
 
Posts: 7113
Victoria

Re: Stabbing hero pinged by NTPOL for saving neighbour

Post by Skinna » 10 May 2021, 12:53 pm

Gamerancher wrote:So he was worried about his neighbour bleeding out but had time to retrieve his firearm, load it up and then attend the victim??
Sorry, but I reckon he's up sh!t creek on this one.


Hey Gamerancher, in any first aid, you are taught to make your very own safety the primary focus, so while i get what you are saying--that being arguing for the point of the law, i also see it (as its portrayed here with little time line or detail), that by taking the time to gather the rifle & load mag etc, he's only doing what is logical & sensible in order to give both him and the stabbing victim the best chances of survival, when it appears peoples lives are clearly in danger.
Again, as its portrayed here, i would rather someone who can think on their feet & act quickly like this bloke, around if i were in any awful situation such as this. Many people just panic & go into shock & curl up in a ball of fear & nerves.

And that is the level of crazy that has enveloped our society....the best chances for survival of the 2 people mentioned & as its portrayed, are severely reduced because of laws that are made through vote grabbing & propaganda by fear based education of society...
We are even being taught to observe & give commentary on this, as we are here, & as such are condoning our loss or individual rights...its a crazy world...
I just hope i retain playing the part of Logan... :lol:

...(As in the movie, Logans Run.. :P .)
Skinna
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 236
South Australia

Re: Stabbing hero pinged by NTPOL for saving neighbour

Post by Oldbloke » 10 May 2021, 2:18 pm

Skinna wrote:
Gamerancher wrote:So he was worried about his neighbour bleeding out but had time to retrieve his firearm, load it up and then attend the victim??
Sorry, but I reckon he's up sh!t creek on this one.


Hey Gamerancher, in any first aid, you are taught to make your very own safety the primary focus, so while i get what you are saying--that being arguing for the point of the law, i also see it (as its portrayed here with little time line or detail), that by taking the time to gather the rifle & load mag etc, he's only doing what is logical & sensible in order to give both him and the stabbing victim the best chances of survival, when it appears peoples lives are clearly in danger.
Again, as its portrayed here, i would rather someone who can think on their feet & act quickly like this bloke, around if i were in any awful situation such as this. Many people just panic & go into shock & curl up in a ball of fear & nerves.

And that is the level of crazy that has enveloped our society....the best chances for survival of the 2 people mentioned & as its portrayed, are severely reduced because of laws that are made through vote grabbing & propaganda by fear based education of society...
We are even being taught to observe & give commentary on this, as we are here, & as such are condoning our loss or individual rights...its a crazy world...
I just hope i retain playing the part of Logan... :lol:

...(As in the movie, Logans Run.. :P .)


Yes, correct, first look after your own safety when approaching an injured person. Its an interesting point I'm sure NSC defence will use.
Love to be a fly on the wall in court.

In the end nobody wins in the end.

P.S. It sort of does my head in a bit. How are we meant to know the legally correct way to respond in these types of circumstances? Honestly. Several Acts may be involved and it takes 2 teams of lawyers and a judge to work out whats right and within the law and what's wrong/unlawful. How are we meant to make the correct snap judgement?

Makes no sense. In my mind if you are defending yourself or person(s) against an attacker, there needs to be an allowance made in favour of the person(s) defending themselves. OR the prosecuters should need to prove you were completely over the top. i.e. had no reason to use any force.
Good manners are free. Hunt safe, look after the bush & plug more pests. :thumbsup: The greatest invention in the history of man is beer. :drinks: Text alone does not convey the full message. Practice good hygiene.
User avatar
Oldbloke
General
General
 
Posts: 7113
Victoria

Re: Stabbing hero pinged by NTPOL for saving neighbour

Post by Gamerancher » 10 May 2021, 3:28 pm

Yes, I've done advanced first aid training a few times and you are correct that you are taught not to place yourself in danger as a first priority, better one victim than two.
However, grabbing a gun in this circumstance was a poor choice. A big stick lying on the ground next to you needs no explaining, a loaded gun, yeah, well,.......he's lucky he didn't get mistaken as a threat by police, could have been a whole other outcome.
Whatever we argue here will have no bearing on the outcome for this bloke. Only he knows what he was thinking at the time and I wish him the best of luck in court.
User avatar
Gamerancher
Warrant Officer C1
Warrant Officer C1
 
Posts: 1339
New South Wales

Re: Stabbing hero pinged by NTPOL for saving neighbour

Post by disco stu » 10 May 2021, 5:08 pm

This opens up a whole world of "what if's".

Say someone is straight out trying to shoot you, trying to kill you, in some whatever circumstance. Say you happen to have a firearm available that is owned legally, and you're licensed etc etc. Is it straight out illegal to defend yourself with it, or would the circumstances be taken into account and they may well find you acted reasonable in the circumstances to use it in your own defence?

Or to put the question another way, if someone is trying to kill you, under the law are you expected to only defend yourself using sticks or throwable projectiles?
disco stu
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 107
New South Wales

Re: Stabbing hero pinged by NTPOL for saving neighbour

Post by snag » 10 May 2021, 5:57 pm

NSC continue to do outstanding work looking after firearms owner's interests. If you're not a member, please think about it.
The pen may be mightier than the sword, but personally I prefer the .30/30 Winchester.
User avatar
snag
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 294
Queensland

Re: Stabbing hero pinged by NTPOL for saving neighbour

Post by Oldbloke » 10 May 2021, 7:10 pm

disco stu wrote:This opens up a whole world of "what if's".

Say someone is straight out trying to shoot you, trying to kill you, in some whatever circumstance. Say you happen to have a firearm available that is owned legally, and you're licensed etc etc. Is it straight out illegal to defend yourself with it, or would the circumstances be taken into account and they may well find you acted reasonable in the circumstances to use it in your own defence?

Or to put the question another way, if someone is trying to kill you, under the law are you expected to only defend yourself using sticks or throwable projectiles?


The impression i have is that's the case. But I'm no expert and each case is judged on its merits.

The interesting thing about the case above is Ron didn't even wave it about. It was on the ground beside him.
Good manners are free. Hunt safe, look after the bush & plug more pests. :thumbsup: The greatest invention in the history of man is beer. :drinks: Text alone does not convey the full message. Practice good hygiene.
User avatar
Oldbloke
General
General
 
Posts: 7113
Victoria

Re: Stabbing hero pinged by NTPOL for saving neighbour

Post by womble » 10 May 2021, 7:41 pm

Ron deserves a medal.
Anyone who goes outside after dark in Alice Springs is likely to get stabbed at least once.
The climate is unsuitable for wearing full body armour, so imho it was smart of him to have his rifle handy. No doubt it deterred further stabbings.
womble
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 655
Victoria

Re: Stabbing hero pinged by NTPOL for saving neighbour

Post by womble » 10 May 2021, 7:44 pm

disco stu wrote:This opens up a whole world of "what if's".

Say someone is straight out trying to shoot you, trying to kill you, in some whatever circumstance. Say you happen to have a firearm available that is owned legally, and you're licensed etc etc. Is it straight out illegal to defend yourself with it, or would the circumstances be taken into account and they may well find you acted reasonable in the circumstances to use it in your own defence?

Or to put the question another way, if someone is trying to kill you, under the law are you expected to only defend yourself using sticks or throwable projectiles?


Proportionate force. Ie: if you are being stabbed with a 5 inch blade you may not defend your life with a blade longer than 5 inches.
womble
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 655
Victoria

Re: Stabbing hero pinged by NTPOL for saving neighbour

Post by womble » 10 May 2021, 7:46 pm

No i made that up. Just remember if someone tries to kill you then you should kill them first.
womble
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 655
Victoria

Re: Stabbing hero pinged by NTPOL for saving neighbour

Post by wanneroo » 11 May 2021, 12:57 am

It's pretty simple, the laws need changed in Australia. To me it's a natural right for you to be able to defend yourself or other people. He did the right thing in being armed in an unknown situation.
wanneroo
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 749
United States of America

Re: Stabbing hero pinged by NTPOL for saving neighbour

Post by deye243 » 11 May 2021, 1:14 am

wanneroo wrote:It's pretty simple, the laws need changed in Australia. To me it's a natural right for you to be able to defend yourself or other people. He did the right thing in being armed in an unknown situation.

I totally agree as would any level-headed individual problem in this country is the lunatics have the keys to the asylum and it's not something that will ever change it gets worse day by day our politicians actually believe in all this woke s*** and Climate Change rubbish
deye243
Warrant Officer C2
Warrant Officer C2
 
Posts: 1184
Victoria

Re: Stabbing hero pinged by NTPOL for saving neighbour

Post by cz515 » 11 May 2021, 7:53 am

While the issues need more clarity. As most times the court system is stacked against a firearm shooter.

To me though the first red flag is carrying the rifle in public without a cover. Then having it loaded. Ffs I am surprised how local cops on the scene didn't think he was the attacker and shot him.

Sure he needs to make it safe, so do ambos and cops, just think they rock up to an incident and find a guy ontop another with a rifle next to him.
cz515
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 154
Victoria

Re: Stabbing hero pinged by NTPOL for saving neighbour

Post by on_one_wheel » 11 May 2021, 9:49 am

disco stu wrote:This opens up a whole world of "what if's".

Say someone is straight out trying to shoot you, trying to kill you, in some whatever circumstance. Say you happen to have a firearm available that is owned legally, and you're licensed etc etc. Is it straight out illegal to defend yourself with it, or would the circumstances be taken into account and they may well find you acted reasonable in the circumstances to use it in your own defence?

Or to put the question another way, if someone is trying to kill you, under the law are you expected to only defend yourself using sticks or throwable projectiles?


Don't be ridiculous... the police are here to protect us.
What's their old slogan again?
"When seconds count, well be there in minutes ":unknown:
Gun control requires concentration and a steady hand
User avatar
on_one_wheel
Lieutenant
Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2403
South Australia

Re: Stabbing hero pinged by NTPOL for saving neighbour

Post by disco stu » 11 May 2021, 10:06 am

"When seconds count, well be there in minutes
:lol:

Cheers all. I know in a life threatening situation you act first and ponder later, but was just intrigued if the laws took circumstance into account or there was no middle ground whatsoever
disco stu
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 107
New South Wales

Re: Stabbing hero pinged by NTPOL for saving neighbour

Post by Oldbloke » 11 May 2021, 11:39 am

disco stu wrote:
"When seconds count, well be there in minutes
:lol:

Cheers all. I know in a life threatening situation you act first and ponder later, but was just intrigued if the laws took circumstance into account or there was no middle ground whatsoever


Pretty much my point earlier. Needs a bit for flexibility IMO.
Good manners are free. Hunt safe, look after the bush & plug more pests. :thumbsup: The greatest invention in the history of man is beer. :drinks: Text alone does not convey the full message. Practice good hygiene.
User avatar
Oldbloke
General
General
 
Posts: 7113
Victoria

Re: Stabbing hero pinged by NTPOL for saving neighbour

Post by BangWhizzClack » 11 May 2021, 2:03 pm

womble wrote:No i made that up. Just remember if someone tries to kill you then you should kill them first.


:lol: I got really butthurt and triggered for a moment reading your proportionate force comment haha

images (23).jpeg
images (23).jpeg (18.56 KiB) Viewed 2019 times
Isn't it about time we get some gun rights?

Lithgow LA101 - 22LR
Lithgow LA102 - 308
Marlin 336SS - 30-30
BangWhizzClack
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 664
Victoria

Re: Stabbing hero pinged by NTPOL for saving neighbour

Post by JSS » 15 May 2021, 9:58 am

Just letting you guys know this bloke has now been charged. NCS has set up a Gofundme page for his legal fight. I'm sure he'd appreciate all our help.

https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-ron-fight-unjust-gun-charges?utm_campaign=p_lico+share-sheet&utm_medium=copy_link&utm_source=customer
User avatar
JSS
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 289
Queensland

Re: Stabbing hero pinged by NTPOL for saving neighbour

Post by wanneroo » 15 May 2021, 11:38 am

JSS wrote:Just letting you guys know this bloke has now been charged. NCS has set up a Gofundme page for his legal fight. I'm sure he'd appreciate all our help.

https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-ron-fight-unjust-gun-charges?utm_campaign=p_lico+share-sheet&utm_medium=copy_link&utm_source=customer


Good to know thank you. I will be happy to donate.
wanneroo
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 749
United States of America

Re: Stabbing hero pinged by NTPOL for saving neighbour

Post by ZaineB » 15 May 2021, 1:10 pm

Gamerancher wrote:So he was worried about his neighbour bleeding out but had time to retrieve his firearm, load it up and then attend the victim??
Sorry, but I reckon he's up sh!t creek on this one.

DRABC

anyone who is anyone knows that no matter the other person condition you always make sure YOU are safe before assisting them, so if this means getting a club, bat, gun, sword or attack chopper, I am all for it.

funny how police wouldn't have assisted without a gun, but expect everyone else to.
Last edited by ZaineB on 15 May 2021, 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ZaineB
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 155
Other

Re: Stabbing hero pinged by NTPOL for saving neighbour

Post by Larry » 15 May 2021, 1:22 pm

The law is very specific however. The act of self deffence will have to be defined and if he acted in accordance with that. He has been charged with
Possess, carry and use a controlled weapon at night;
Carry exposed firearm in a public place;
Carry a loaded firearm in a public place;
Possess or use a firearm contrary to licence;
Going armed in public

At fist glance I dont think anyone could argue that he did not actually do any of the above things. The case will be about if the act of self defence is a mitigating circumstance in the above. I think he will struggle as he was not in the act of self defence he would have to prove that he was in imminent danger. The perpetrator was not anywhere near the scene from the reported details therefore he was not in any danger and did not act in self defence of himself or anyone else.
Larry
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 261
-

Re: Stabbing hero pinged by NTPOL for saving neighbour

Post by BangWhizzClack » 15 May 2021, 3:38 pm

Common sense dictates that he was going to aid and defend somebody else that was in imminent danger of death or grievous bodily harm to the best of his knowledge.
Isn't it about time we get some gun rights?

Lithgow LA101 - 22LR
Lithgow LA102 - 308
Marlin 336SS - 30-30
BangWhizzClack
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 664
Victoria

Next

Back to top
 
Return to Firearms related media and politics