Stabbing hero pinged by NTPOL for saving neighbour

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Re: Stabbing hero pinged by NTPOL for saving neighbour

Post by Larry » 15 May 2021, 3:44 pm

No common sense in the laws. We will wait and see what the outcome is.
I doubt he will get off as it would open up open public carry just in case self defense is needed.
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Re: Stabbing hero pinged by NTPOL for saving neighbour

Post by Oldbloke » 15 May 2021, 4:32 pm

ZaineB wrote:
wanneroo wrote:It's pretty simple, the laws need changed in Australia. To me it's a natural right for you to be able to defend yourself or other people. He did the right thing in being armed in an unknown situation.



Its bleedingly obvious that the laws here need to change drastically, the sheer imbalance of power between criminals and innocent people is disgusting. There is not only politicians to blame for this, the arsehole police are a bigger problem, police use their discretion to ignore old and outdated laws all the time, they regularly ignore the letter of the law in the interest of making their jobs easier/not trying to prosecute and investigate trivial crimes. This bloke using his firearm is trivial, he didn't discharge it and most of all no one was harmed, meaning no crime was committed against any person. He has done literally nothing wrong and those arsehole police should have just F#cked off and searched for the assailant.


Sort of agree. But I would have said " the police have their priorities wrong".
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Re: Stabbing hero pinged by NTPOL for saving neighbour

Post by womble » 15 May 2021, 5:19 pm

I sorta don’t agree if anyone thinks smearing the character and integrity of the police in Alice is going to be helpful.
Because they are good blokes, the best.

In my expert opinion Ron formally of Alice Springs, currently resides so far up s**t creek that we all need to stfu and let his lawyer make this go away quietly.
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Re: Stabbing hero pinged by NTPOL for saving neighbour

Post by womble » 15 May 2021, 5:22 pm

And then hopefully there will be enough funds left over to commission a mural of Ron defending Alice from the savages with his rifle.
Ok I’ll shut up now.
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Re: Stabbing hero pinged by NTPOL for saving neighbour

Post by Larry » 15 May 2021, 5:38 pm

I expect to be called all sorts of things by people on the forum. I think it is a very poor response from an organization that is trying to present themselves as professionals. I didnt even criticize the NSC. I just have a different take on the law. I am under no illusion as to the conditions that I am able to hold a firearm license. I am able to use a firearm to hunt and participate in sport shooting target shooting. Nothing more not my defense not the defense of Australia or any other person or property.
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Re: Stabbing hero pinged by NTPOL for saving neighbour

Post by NSC » 15 May 2021, 5:51 pm

Larry wrote:The law is very specific however. The act of self deffence will have to be defined and if he acted in accordance with that. He has been charged with
Possess, carry and use a controlled weapon at night;
Carry exposed firearm in a public place;
Carry a loaded firearm in a public place;
Possess or use a firearm contrary to licence;
Going armed in public

At fist glance I dont think anyone could argue that he did not actually do any of the above things. The case will be about if the act of self defence is a mitigating circumstance in the above. I think he will struggle as he was not in the act of self defence he would have to prove that he was in imminent danger. The perpetrator was not anywhere near the scene from the reported details therefore he was not in any danger and did not act in self defence of himself or anyone else.



Larry, your words are above.... As for the NSC not being professional I have read every post you have made on this site and most are pro-police/anti shooter.

Tell us how you concluded the perpetrator was not anywhere near the scence? We never said that....As I said, it was dark and Ron had no idea where the assailant was or if he would return to the scene?

Whilst you are entitled to an opinion, wear it when you are called out for it and don't sook!

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Re: Stabbing hero pinged by NTPOL for saving neighbour

Post by Larry » 15 May 2021, 6:17 pm

No problem wearing it or standing by my opinion or conclusions. Far from anti shooter but certainly not a red neck banging on about self defense gun rights either.
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Re: Stabbing hero pinged by NTPOL for saving neighbour

Post by GQshayne » 15 May 2021, 7:40 pm

Larry wrote:No common sense in the laws. We will wait and see what the outcome is.
I doubt he will get off as it would open up open public carry just in case self defense is needed.


I understand where you are coming from Larry. We may not agree with the laws as they stand, but they are the current laws.

Hopefully the mitigating circumstances will hold some weight.
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Re: Stabbing hero pinged by NTPOL for saving neighbour

Post by Oldbloke » 15 May 2021, 8:02 pm

Let's not start a sh1tfight gentleman.

This is going to be a very interesting case.

Generally speaking I think it's pretty clear that in all states you cannot use a firearm in self-defense except under very rare and extenuating circumstances.

But this is very unusual.

All first aiders are trained to ensure their own safety prior to assisting any individual that is at risk or injured.

It is a little known fact the first aider cannot be sued for negligence and attempts to do so are yet to be successful in this country.
I believe the reason is because judges and legislaters want to know that first aiders will assistance them or their family if they are having a heart attack or otherwise injured. There is in fact piece of legislation in place in almost every state that I'm aware of that protects first aiders from being sued. It's usually referred to as the The Good Samaritan Act.

If it became known that the first aiders could no longer defend themselves in the event of being a first responder what would first aiders do in the future? Would they continue in respond in this scenario?
Perhaps not.

Would a judge want it to be known publicly that first aiders can no longer defend themselves if assisting someone in this situation? I don't think so. Perhaps this is an angle that Rons lawyer can use in his defence.

Perhaps just a thought bubble. I hope it all works out for Ron. The laws are stacked against us and the bar is set too high IMO. But I don't want us to be like the US either.
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Re: Stabbing hero pinged by NTPOL for saving neighbour

Post by cz515 » 16 May 2021, 7:07 am

I am not a lawyer and interestingly find both sides of the argument compelling.

Saying that as the law stands, and having read of other cases against LFO, if I was in a similar situation I would not carry a firearm, let alone a loaded firearm in the open.
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Re: Stabbing hero pinged by NTPOL for saving neighbour

Post by wanneroo » 16 May 2021, 11:29 am

It's very easy to monday morning quarterback these things but when these things go down time is short. One aspect of my job I get to do attack scenarios over and over again and we endeavor to make them as real as possible. Over 13 years of doing it, it's been very interesting to see how people react under fire and what they do. People have to make decisions very quickly. If we place ourselves into this situation, things have to happen now, people can bleed out very fast, where is the perp/danger, etc. And that brings me to my next point:

When it comes to "the law", one has to assess whether one acted in a reasonable and prudent manner. In an unknown situation were someone just got stabbed, did this person act in a reasonable and prudent manner to defend their neighbor and themselves from harm and to render first aid.

Because if you take the approach of "the law" in which self defense is frowned upon, you could say well just let that neighbor bleed out, oh well, aint my problem. Or you could go over unarmed to render aid, get stabbed by the perp but at least when you are bleeding out and dying you could say well, at least I followed "the law".
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Re: Stabbing hero pinged by NTPOL for saving neighbour

Post by Larry » 16 May 2021, 11:37 am

I agree with you wanneroo timing is everything. If in Aus you had your gun out of the safe for some reason and a House invasion occurred (your house) by an armed intruder then there would be little problem. However if you see something down the street and think I better get my gun out of the safe then go to the other room to unlock your ammo and carry it to your neighbors the timing is all wrong on your side of the law.
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Re: Stabbing hero pinged by NTPOL for saving neighbour

Post by wanneroo » 16 May 2021, 11:41 am

JSS wrote:Just letting you guys know this bloke has now been charged. NCS has set up a Gofundme page for his legal fight. I'm sure he'd appreciate all our help.

https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-ron-fight-unjust-gun-charges?utm_campaign=p_lico+share-sheet&utm_medium=copy_link&utm_source=customer


Done.

I'll see what interest I can drum up in the USA and try to get some other folks to chip in.
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Re: Stabbing hero pinged by NTPOL for saving neighbour

Post by duncan61 » 16 May 2021, 11:45 am

I have been on the wrong end of the law and been charged with not securing firearms twice under different circumstances.The police have the power to charge or not charge its personnel.If the police have raised 5 charges they are trying to make an example of this victim so we do not think its O.K. to bring a gun to knife fight.Condolences to the young man doing what he felt was right.This will take years to sort out.If he pleads guilty it will be over quicker but he will get a hefty fine and a suspended sentence.
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Re: Stabbing hero pinged by NTPOL for saving neighbour

Post by NSC » 16 May 2021, 1:01 pm

Larry wrote:I agree with you wanneroo timing is everything. If in Aus you had your gun out of the safe for some reason and a House invasion occurred (your house) by an armed intruder then there would be little problem. However if you see something down the street and think I better get my gun out of the safe then go to the other room to unlock your ammo and carry it to your neighbors the timing is all wrong on your side of the law.


Larry,


What if the assailant returned to the scene and attacked Ron and his first victim whilst he was rendering first aid or returned and attacked the Paramedics who arrived on the scene before Police?

I bet the woman stabbed is grateful that Ron did what he did, unlike you who proudly proclaims he would follow the law, even if it meant an innocent life was lost.

Yes Larry follows orders/law, just like those on trial at Nuremberg!



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Re: Stabbing hero pinged by NTPOL for saving neighbour

Post by Larry » 16 May 2021, 2:01 pm

Why dont you educate us on just what the law is and perhaps get a legal opinion / interpretation of it for us. I believe it is better to prevent getting yourself into a situation rather than have to fight after the fact when your in the s**t. Or is it the strategy of the NSC to let people get themselves into trouble so you can then use their problems to fight against the laws in hope of changing the status quo in the long run?
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Re: Stabbing hero pinged by NTPOL for saving neighbour

Post by duncan61 » 16 May 2021, 2:25 pm

NSC wrote
Larry,

You just don't give up do you?

Please stop embarresing yourself or are you just a troll?

NSC
Correct spelling would be less embarrassing.Larry is entitled to an opinion and I understand where he is going.Immediate first aid was not rendered.Getting a rifle was the first action.
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Re: Stabbing hero pinged by NTPOL for saving neighbour

Post by Oldbloke » 16 May 2021, 5:54 pm

IMO everyone needs to take a big breath and cool off.
Last edited by Oldbloke on 16 May 2021, 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Stabbing hero pinged by NTPOL for saving neighbour

Post by Oldbloke » 16 May 2021, 5:56 pm

As I've suggested earlier. In an urgent situation its difficult to know what to do. The average LAFO isn't a lawyer.
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Re: Stabbing hero pinged by NTPOL for saving neighbour

Post by womble » 16 May 2021, 5:56 pm

I dream of a world where chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned
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Re: Stabbing hero pinged by NTPOL for saving neighbour

Post by Member-Deleted » 16 May 2021, 6:02 pm

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Re: Stabbing hero pinged by NTPOL for saving neighbour

Post by Blackened » 16 May 2021, 9:03 pm

Locked, since people can't refrain from petty squabbling.
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