“Firearm laws must change to protect farm workers”

News and events in the media and political arena relating to firearms.

“Firearm laws must change to protect farm workers”

Post by Husky243 » 12 Oct 2021, 3:59 pm

I get old mate being frustrated by these selfish idiots but not sure what law needs to be changed. Already laws in place to combat issues mentioned in article below I thought.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-12/ ... /100526354
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Re: “Firearm laws must change to protect farm workers”

Post by Noisydad » 12 Oct 2021, 4:29 pm

Mainstream media needs to keep the pot simmering. There hasn’t been any statistically significant firearms (upwards) trends for decades except for those that put firearms ownership in a more positive light, so fear has to be invented and promoted.
It’s what msm does.
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Post by Die Judicii » 12 Oct 2021, 4:36 pm

One of (and I stress) one of the big issues that land owners in the Northern Reaches of Australia are constantly faced with
is brought about by the Shooting/Hunting magazines.
Last time I was in FNQ I was at a BBQ put on by a Station Manager,,,, and there were five other station managers/owners there.
We were talking about this very topic of illegal shooting, trespass, damage to stock, and gates etc.

They all had the same outlook that put a lot of blame on the shooting/hunting magazines.
The glossy pages showing pics of wild pigs in vast numbers, goats, camels, etc as well as the many trophy pics.
All the while all the talk about the vast open lands of up north,, and it being the "Mecca" for hunters.

All this is fine except for the d!ckheads that read these magazines and then go on a hunting/camping trip.
Many of these d!ckheads seem to think that because they've travelled all day and haven't seen a house or maybe another vehicle,,,,,, that the
"vast open country" is a free for all as far as shooting is concerned.
Just because there may be an absence of a fence,, doesn't mean the land is not owned.

Then you get the super d!ckheads that don't even care,,,,,, and if they come to a fence or gate that is locked,,,,,, "she'll be right mate, just rip it down"

Not all travellers/shooters/campers as we all know,,,,,,,,, are like these d!ckheads, but fuelled up with the way the shooting magazines write these
articles,,, ignorance,,, and booze combined,,, cause a lot of problems for these station owners/managers.

I agree with them, and a good first step could be taking the shooting magazines to task over the way they portray the wild open country.
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Re: “Firearm laws must change to protect farm workers”

Post by disco stu » 12 Oct 2021, 4:43 pm

Even the police in the article say it's illegal and they'll be punished. Once again, make something illegal that is already illegal and hope things change.

It's like an incident that occurred with kid using their dad's illegally owned sawn off shotgun. David Shoebridge then said there needs to be stricter firearm laws. The guy was unlicensed, gun unregistered, and also of illegal length, stored incorrectly etc. Nothing about it was legal at all. That incident was exactly why the rules are there in the first place. No amount of further laws would have changed the incident
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Post by Strangedog » 12 Oct 2021, 6:23 pm

A total nothing story to put shooters in a bad light. Disgusting. Does anyone on here actually know someone that has done something like what is supposed to be common place?
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Post by deye243 » 12 Oct 2021, 7:36 pm

Just a another ABC beat up from what I learnt from another forum this bloke is a serial whinging bastard about campers fishes in that article that lock he is holding was from 5 or years ago.
I agree it's wrong if you go shooting without permission and you deserve to lose everything including the vehicle
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Re: “Firearm laws must change to protect farm workers”

Post by Die Judicii » 12 Oct 2021, 7:37 pm

Strangedog wrote:A total nothing story to put shooters in a bad light. Disgusting. Does anyone on here actually know someone that has done something like what is supposed to be common place?


Mate, with all due respect,, I think you need to get more into the real world.
It's NOT a "nothing" story.
Incidents like the reported are unfortunately commonplace.

And yes,,,,,,, apart from the station owners/managers that I referred to in my 1st reply on this thread,,, I do personally know nearly a dozen landowners
in my current near locality that are suffering such things.
But no,, I don't personally know any of the perpetrators.
I do not fear death itself... Only its inopportune timing!
I've come to realize that,,,,, the two most loving, loyal, and trustworthy females in my entire life were both canines.
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Post by animalpest » 12 Oct 2021, 10:38 pm

It is a common occurrence on my property. Gates bent, fences cut all by illegal hunters.
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Post by wanneroo » 13 Oct 2021, 3:03 am

I happened to catch that story on Facebook.

It seems to me the big issue is really trespassing and the fact people are not paying a penalty for it.

I've not made it to WA yet to see the lay of the land, but I know from watching Aussie Gold Hunters that trespassing on private property in WA, especially in regards to mineral leases or for hunting, seems to be an epidemic. Also what I noticed was trespassers becoming violent or aggressive when caught. Here in the USA we carry guns and you don't mess around with no trespassing signs or landowners. Obviously we have trespassing that goes on but it doesn't seem out of control like Australia.

One thing is police coverage of course in rural WA is spread thin and one solution might be reserve police or constables or deputy sheriffs like we have in the USA in rural areas. In my state you can become a constable with 120 hours of state provided training and certification and this allows you to make arrests, serve warrants and papers and enforce the law.
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Re: “Firearm laws must change to protect farm workers”

Post by NTSOG » 13 Oct 2021, 6:00 am

G'day,

I though quad bikes and the tendency of such vehicles to roll over were killing more people on farms than anything else. As for this story it's a full-on beat-up - which is to be expected from the ABC.

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Post by Communism_Is_Cancer » 13 Oct 2021, 6:58 am

Poaching and trespassing are ilegal. Gun laws have nothing to do with it.

Trespassing is rather common when you have a large block of land. Kids on quads or motorbikes, people hunting or camping, even people stealing your trees.
Last edited by Communism_Is_Cancer on 13 Oct 2021, 7:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Strangedog » 13 Oct 2021, 7:00 am

Die Judicii wrote:
Strangedog wrote:A total nothing story to put shooters in a bad light. Disgusting. Does anyone on here actually know someone that has done something like what is supposed to be common place?


Mate, with all due respect,, I think you need to get more into the real world.
It's NOT a "nothing" story.
Incidents like the reported are unfortunately commonplace.

And yes,,,,,,, apart from the station owners/managers that I referred to in my 1st reply on this thread,,, I do personally know nearly a dozen landowners
in my current near locality that are suffering such things.
But no,, I don't personally know any of the perpetrators.


Yeah I've heard of fences being cut and the like from land owners, though it's always been doggers, but don't know anyone that has done it myself.
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Post by Oldbloke » 13 Oct 2021, 7:32 am

NTSOG wrote:G'day,

I though quad bikes and the tendency of such vehicles to roll over were killing more people on farms than anything else. As for this story it's a full-on beat-up - which is to be expected from the ABC.

Jim.


About 20 a year I believe.

"The overall rate of accidental firearm deaths or injuries was highest in outer regional, remote, and rural areas – sitting at 1.2 per cent per 100,000 people."

That is total BS. Does not make statistical sense. Someone should lodge a complaint.

1.2% of 100k = 1200 deaths
Even the way it's been quoted is wrong. It's either a percentage or number per 100k, not both.
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Post by boingk » 13 Oct 2021, 8:24 am

Oldbloke wrote:That is total BS. Does not make statistical sense. Someone should lodge a complaint.

1.2% of 100k = 1200 deaths
Even the way it's been quoted is wrong. It's either a percentage or number per 100k, not both.


Thats the thing that got me - doesn't make sense. Someone has no idea hat they're tlaking about.

Our gun ownership laws are the envy of the civilised world - we can still have stuff (both longarms and pistols) and yet have one of the (if not the) lowest rates of firearm injury/death/theft/misuse in the world.

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Re: “Firearm laws must change to protect farm workers”

Post by Communism_Is_Cancer » 13 Oct 2021, 9:18 am

boingk wrote:
Our gun ownership laws are the envy of the civilised world - we can still have stuff (both longarms and pistols) and yet have one of the (if not the) lowest rates of firearm injury/death/theft/misuse in the world.

- boingk


In your opinion. :drinks:
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Post by Madang185 » 13 Oct 2021, 9:39 am

The real problem is the media who want the headlines. Licensed firearm owners in any country are an easy target, catching those who misuse firearms is another matter entirely. The UK banned private ownership of all handguns in 1997. Handgun related crime in 1998 rose by 7% or thereabouts. Since then not a whisper in the media about handgun related crime, I would bet my bottom dollar that it has continued to rise BUT because it fails to meet the media requirement they refuse to print the truth.
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Post by Communism_Is_Cancer » 13 Oct 2021, 10:05 am

Madang185 wrote:The real problem is the media who want the headlines. Licensed firearm owners in any country are an easy target, catching those who misuse firearms is another matter entirely. The UK banned private ownership of all handguns in 1997. Handgun related crime in 1998 rose by 7% or thereabouts. Since then not a whisper in the media about handgun related crime, I would bet my bottom dollar that it has continued to rise BUT because it fails to meet the media requirement they refuse to print the truth.




To be fair private ownership of handguns in the UK is not banned. They have what they call section 5, section 7.1 and section 7.3 licenses. Which allow for citizens to own pistols.

Northern Ireland(part of the uk) are allowed pistols easyly compared to the rest of the UK and even allowed them for self defence but only around 2% of pistols are owned for the purpose of self defence as you must prove a threat on your life.

I listen to English Shooting podcast on youtube and he showed how 40% of all gun related crime in the UK is from criminals using handguns.
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Re: “Firearm laws must change to protect farm workers”

Post by Communism_Is_Cancer » 13 Oct 2021, 10:20 am

Section 5 is like dealers, collectors and manufactures and can be anything
section 7.1 the pistol has to be made before 1919
section 7.3 the pistol can be of any age but has to be of some historical significance and can only be shot at 4 ranges in Britain
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Re: “Firearm laws must change to protect farm workers”

Post by rc42 » 13 Oct 2021, 11:40 am

UK pistols are available, well, sort of.
Air pistols, sub 6 ft lb, are available to anyone over 18, no license or any other checks, you just go tot he shop and buy one. Scotland has started licensing and registration though, a waste of time and money but that may spread.

'Pistols' in powder calibers are available if they meet the barrel and overall length requirements to be technically defined as long arms, fortunately, suppressors are not only permitted but required at some ranges so barrel length extension is easier and overall length needs a protrusion out of the back.

Here are two comedy examples:

Image

Image
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Post by Communism_Is_Cancer » 13 Oct 2021, 12:19 pm

The UK has short arms and long arms in its laws. Anything with a barrel less than 12 inches and overall length of 24 inches is section 5.
Those funny looking things are called long barreled pistols and are section 1 which is the equivalent of our A/b licence.

Normal pistols can be obtained under a section 5 licence or a section 7.1 or 7.3 licence.
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Post by on_one_wheel » 13 Oct 2021, 12:32 pm

Iv actually had training in smelling bull$#it from a mile away and in my opinion I'm calling it out as such, I find the claims hard to believe especially given his alleged losses in costs, the frequency of occurrence and alleged encounters with poachers.
What's stopping him calling the police in either direction, giving them a number plate and description.. but no, he'll just argue with them after having shots fired in his general direction and let them move on rather than notifying Port Headland Police... I can smell BS.

If it were genuine, he'd and many others in his position would have endless security cameras (trail cams) on all tracks and a pile of photographic evidence to hand to the police.
I know quite a few pastoralists in the NT, SA and NSW, most of them have trail cams dotted around the place especially around tracks near public roads. They wouldn't hesitate in taking it to the police.

Given there already trespassing laws in place, (noting that many stations have public roads and right of way through them) there's laws on hunting without permission ecc...
There's definitely no need to change gun laws, if it's true what is being said, old mate needs to make an effort to put up some signs and cameras and bust the poaching, trespassing, law breaking scum that are entering his property.
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Post by womble » 13 Oct 2021, 3:34 pm

I cant even get the link after i downloaded and installed bulls**t blocker
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Post by bigrich » 13 Oct 2021, 4:34 pm

Die Judicii wrote:
Strangedog wrote:A total nothing story to put shooters in a bad light. Disgusting. Does anyone on here actually know someone that has done something like what is supposed to be common place?


Mate, with all due respect,, I think you need to get more into the real world.
It's NOT a "nothing" story.
Incidents like the reported are unfortunately commonplace.

And yes,,,,,,, apart from the station owners/managers that I referred to in my 1st reply on this thread,,, I do personally know nearly a dozen landowners
in my current near locality that are suffering such things.
But no,, I don't personally know any of the perpetrators.


property owners around tenterfeild have lots of trouble with f@ckwits poaching and tresspassing . not on :thumbsdown:
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Post by Oldbloke » 13 Oct 2021, 4:51 pm

on_one_wheel wrote:Iv actually had training in smelling bull$#it from a mile away and in my opinion I'm calling it out as such, I find the claims hard to believe especially given his alleged losses in costs, the frequency of occurrence and alleged encounters with poachers.
What's stopping him calling the police in either direction, giving them a number plate and description.. but no, he'll just argue with them after having shots fired in his general direction and let them move on rather than notifying Port Headland Police... I can smell BS.

If it were genuine, he'd and many others in his position would have endless security cameras (trail cams) on all tracks and a pile of photographic evidence to hand to the police.
I know quite a few pastoralists in the NT, SA and NSW, most of them have trail cams dotted around the place especially around tracks near public roads. They wouldn't hesitate in taking it to the police.

Given there already trespassing laws in place, (noting that many stations have public roads and right of way through them) there's laws on hunting without permission ecc...
There's definitely no need to change gun laws, if it's true what is being said, old mate needs to make an effort to put up some signs and cameras and bust the poaching, trespassing, law breaking scum that are entering his property.


I agree.

But there is trespassing and poaching happening. Farmers need to make an attempt to collect some evidence and we probably need a few more cops.

GMA Victoria only has 5 or 6 a staff. Bloody joke.
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Post by bladeracer » 13 Oct 2021, 5:16 pm

I haven't been following the story at all.
We haven't had a big problem with poaching on our own properties, but poachers do get around here occasionally shooting 'roos on the roads and in the APM plantations. Somebody did manage to steal one of our gates though :-)

But being fired "at" can be very difficult to determine depending on the terrain.
Many years ago I was shooting rabbits with .22LR in a paddock, same place I shot virtually every day.
A few days later I was chatting with the landowner across the road (I hunted foxes, rabbits and crows all over his property also). He mentioned, without rancour, that he'd been concerned I'd been shooting quite close to where he'd been working inside a rainwater tank. I had actually been shooting a good 500m away, and almost directly away from his location - he was NNE of me, I was shooting almost due south, with a major road between us. He also thought I'd been shooting centrefire rather than .22LR - I was shooting Remington Yellow Jackets at the time - 1500fps.
We decided that being inside the steel tank had amplified the sound enormously, giving him an incorrect idea of direction and distance.
Similar effects can come from sound bouncing off hills or rolling down valleys.

So, unless he has evidence of bullets coming close by, such as bullet holes or recovered bullets, it'd be very difficult to be certain he was actually being fired at. Supersonic bullets fired from long range can be easier to determine as the sonic crack has to be relatively close to your position to be heard.
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Post by on_one_wheel » 13 Oct 2021, 6:29 pm

bladeracer wrote:I haven't been following the story at all.
We haven't had a big problem with poaching on our own properties, but poachers do get around here occasionally shooting 'roos on the roads and in the APM plantations. Somebody did manage to steal one of our gates though :-)

But being fired "at" can be very difficult to determine depending on the terrain.
Many years ago I was shooting rabbits with .22LR in a paddock, same place I shot virtually every day.
A few days later I was chatting with the landowner across the road (I hunted foxes, rabbits and crows all over his property also). He mentioned, without rancour, that he'd been concerned I'd been shooting quite close to where he'd been working inside a rainwater tank. I had actually been shooting a good 500m away, and almost directly away from his location - he was NNE of me, I was shooting almost due south, with a major road between us. He also thought I'd been shooting centrefire rather than .22LR - I was shooting Remington Yellow Jackets at the time - 1500fps.
We decided that being inside the steel tank had amplified the sound enormously, giving him an incorrect idea of direction and distance.
Similar effects can come from sound bouncing off hills or rolling down valleys.

So, unless he has evidence of bullets coming close by, such as bullet holes or recovered bullets, it'd be very difficult to be certain he was actually being fired at. Supersonic bullets fired from long range can be easier to determine as the sonic crack has to be relatively close to your position to be heard.


Iv also been there.
Long story but essentially, .22 lr popping rabbits on the corner of a property, facing an neighbouring operation, firing towards the base of a hill, neighbouring security called the police and reported having shots fired over his head "high powered rifle, probably a .223, shots whizzing past, military veteran blah blah blah"
Police were ok with it all after a discussion with me, no consequences.(wipe sweat from brow emoji)
I'm sure I'd also be nervous hearing shots blasting away up range, you wouldn't know who's behind the trigger and what their doing especially with a lifetime's experience of gun violent movies and news stories in your head.

New procedures were developed in conjunction with the neighbouring busines.. quick email or phone call to management prior to any shooting so staff can be informed in advance.
Just a cut and paste job with dates and times.
Pest control activities will be conducted on the neighbouring property to the West of the lease on Wednesday 14th October, please be aware that gunshots may be head between the hours of ........
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Post by Die Judicii » 13 Oct 2021, 7:39 pm

:lol: :lol: Blade Racer,,,,,,,,

Your mention of old mate working in a tank brought a smile to my face.

Unfortunately, if you recall the late 1960's / 70's era,,,,,, there was a lot of bullet vandalism happening on windmill fans and associated tanks.
Back then,,, I would be thinking that working inside a tank might not have been a safe place to be. :thumbsdown:
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Re: “Firearm laws must change to protect farm workers”

Post by boingk » 13 Oct 2021, 10:27 pm

Oldbloke wrote:But there is trespassing and poaching happening. Farmers need to make an attempt to collect some evidence and we probably need a few more cops.


Personally I just find the offending vehicle and put a few tek screws into the tyres, record the number plate and call it a day. If you've got the time and forethought, I'd suggest a pinprick to the lower radiator hose and fill the exhaust with a few cups of used oil. The thing will overheat, use water, and emit a nasty smoke when up to temp. Hard and expensive to diagnose. Goodbye, shooting rig.

Report to police along with photograph, naturally.

If you're so inclined (I'm not due to the semi-permenant nature of it but do love the tought of this trick) make a slurry of hot water and local feaces then pour it down the base of the windscreen. Half a cup will do. Now, where does your aircon come from? :mrgreen:

Once word gets out I dare say there won't be too many problems.

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Re: “Firearm laws must change to protect farm workers”

Post by Die Judicii » 14 Oct 2021, 12:03 pm

boingk wrote:If you're so inclined (I'm not due to the semi-permenant nature of it but do love the tought of this trick) make a slurry of hot water and local feaces then pour it down the base of the windscreen. Half a cup will do. Now, where does your aircon come from? :mrgreen:

- boingk


Just 2 or 3 drops of concentrated fish oil (available from most supermarkets) will do an even better job.
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Post by bladeracer » 14 Oct 2021, 2:30 pm

Die Judicii wrote::lol: :lol: Blade Racer,,,,,,,,

Your mention of old mate working in a tank brought a smile to my face.

Unfortunately, if you recall the late 1960's / 70's era,,,,,, there was a lot of bullet vandalism happening on windmill fans and associated tanks.
Back then,,, I would be thinking that working inside a tank might not have been a safe place to be. :thumbsdown:


A very good point JD :-)
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