Live ammo on film set?

News and events in the media and political arena relating to firearms.

Re: Live ammo on film set?

Post by Lsfan » 25 Oct 2021, 5:56 pm

I think it's harsh to blame Alec Baldwin. Like someone said, they employ other people to do all the checks and ensure safety. But yes the fact that they would have live ammo and blanks together seems so stupid. Is it perhaps the relaxed laws in the US that would allow this to happen?

What would happen if you had your car serviced, then ran over and killed someone because the brakes failed and they later found that the mechanic had done something wrong?
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Re: Live ammo on film set?

Post by Lsfan » 25 Oct 2021, 5:57 pm

I think it's harsh to blame Alec Baldwin. Like someone said, they employ other people to do all the checks and ensure safety. But yes the fact that they would have live ammo and blanks together seems so stupid. Is it perhaps the relaxed laws in the US that would allow this to happen?

What would happen if you had your car serviced, then ran over and killed someone because the brakes failed and they later found that the mechanic had done something wrong?
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Re: Live ammo on film set?

Post by bigrich » 25 Oct 2021, 6:11 pm

Communism_Is_Cancer wrote:A good video from gun Jesus about movie firearms.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnOUrRT ... e=youtu.be


i love gun jesus :D blessed be all that follow his youtube sermons :lol:
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Re: Live ammo on film set?

Post by Larry » 25 Oct 2021, 6:35 pm

Litigation for Neglect would have to be the US biggest industry.
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Re: Live ammo on film set?

Post by bladeracer » 25 Oct 2021, 7:01 pm

Lsfan wrote:I think it's harsh to blame Alec Baldwin. Like someone said, they employ other people to do all the checks and ensure safety. But yes the fact that they would have live ammo and blanks together seems so stupid. Is it perhaps the relaxed laws in the US that would allow this to happen?

What would happen if you had your car serviced, then ran over and killed someone because the brakes failed and they later found that the mechanic had done something wrong?


I think it's great karma myself.
He has been vocally anti-gun for decades, while enjoying the fruits of selling firearms to the public by virtue of using them in his movies.
Firearm owners hold ourselves to a higher standard I think, actors that embrace firearms are less likely to find themselves in this sort of situation because they understand the ramifications of not checking for themselves that the situation is safe. Could such an incident have happened to Clint Eastwood, John Wayne, or so many others that regularly use firearms outside of their job? I watch a lot of very old movies, and back then it was very obvious that actors fired their blanks away to the side of their target, not directly at them, sometimes ridiculously so.

I have long held that people that are against firearm ownership are so because they know they could never be trusted in control of a firearm, whether they are simply afraid of things, or have anger issues, or addictions, are just ugly souls that hate everything and everybody else, or simply they hate other people having the freedoms to do and believe what they want to. They assume that the rest of us are the same, thus nobody can be trusted with firearms. Even a "gangster" that has carried a gun illegally for decades, without ever having to use it, has in fact not been in any way a danger to society simply by possessing a firearm, or having access to a firearm, he has certainly been less of a danger than giving a gun to a bloody actor.
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Re: Live ammo on film set?

Post by Wm.Traynor » 25 Oct 2021, 7:13 pm

Your second para gets a Big Like from me bladeracer :thumbsup: Have thought the same things about gunhaters, for quite a number of years.
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Re: Live ammo on film set?

Post by Lsfan » 25 Oct 2021, 7:57 pm

Fair enough. He does seem like a bit of a d.ck at the best of times, but still a very unfortunate event if you are supposed to have professionals protecting people against such incidents.
Now I'm imagining Baldwin mocking Trump. Yeah he is a d.ck!
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Re: Live ammo on film set?

Post by bladeracer » 25 Oct 2021, 8:44 pm

Lsfan wrote:Fair enough. He does seem like a bit of a d.ck at the best of times, but still a very unfortunate event if you are supposed to have professionals protecting people against such incidents.
Now I'm imagining Baldwin mocking Trump. Yeah he is a d.ck!


That's the mentality the left are trying to push society to, everything is always somebody else's fault, zero responsibility for what you do, regardless of the consequences.
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Re: Live ammo on film set?

Post by Lsfan » 25 Oct 2021, 9:03 pm

bladeracer wrote:
Lsfan wrote:Fair enough. He does seem like a bit of a d.ck at the best of times, but still a very unfortunate event if you are supposed to have professionals protecting people against such incidents.
Now I'm imagining Baldwin mocking Trump. Yeah he is a d.ck!


That's the mentality the left are trying to push society to, everything is always somebody else's fault, zero responsibility for what you do, regardless of the consequences.

He's an actor, that's why other people are employed for other purposes. Otherwise what is the point of those other people if they can't be trusted in their profession?
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Re: Live ammo on film set?

Post by bladeracer » 25 Oct 2021, 9:19 pm

Lsfan wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
Lsfan wrote:Fair enough. He does seem like a bit of a d.ck at the best of times, but still a very unfortunate event if you are supposed to have professionals protecting people against such incidents.
Now I'm imagining Baldwin mocking Trump. Yeah he is a d.ck!


That's the mentality the left are trying to push society to, everything is always somebody else's fault, zero responsibility for what you do, regardless of the consequences.

He's an actor, that's why other people are employed for other purposes. Otherwise what is the point of those other people if they can't be trusted in their profession?


The buck stops with him as he is the one handling the firearm, if he's not comfortable with that he should've refused to take on that responsibility.

If Police pull you over for a breath test, you blow under, but feel you are actually too affected to be driving and don't want to continue. The officer insists you leave so he can get the next driver tested and you cause an accident, is it the cop's fault or yours?
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Re: Live ammo on film set?

Post by Die Judicii » 25 Oct 2021, 9:32 pm

bladeracer wrote:
I have long held that people that are against firearm ownership are so because they know they could never be trusted in control of a firearm, whether they are simply afraid of things, or have anger issues, or addictions, are just ugly souls that hate everything and everybody else, or simply they hate other people having the freedoms to do and believe what they want to. They assume that the rest of us are the same, thus nobody can be trusted with firearms.


SH!T,,,,,,,,,,,, I think you just described Little Johnnie Howard. :lol:
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Re: Live ammo on film set?

Post by Diamond Jim » 26 Oct 2021, 12:50 am

"All these hollywood losers who want to ban guns yet have no concept of firearm safety. What kind of sycophant just takes someones word for it that the firearm is clear and does not check it themself."

If actors could be trusted to know even basic firearm safety maybe this would make sense. The fact is, most "artistic" types are anti-gun and probably never handle one unless on a film set or stage.

That's why a professional armourer is required to ensure safety. I seriously doubt that an actor would even be allowed to check the condidion of a firearm he/she was handed by the armourer (note: the armourer should hand over the firearm not the assistant director - WTF is anyone apart from the armourer and the actor doing touching a firearm on set?).

To safety check a SA revolver would mean completely unloading it and reloading. The actor would/should never be allowed to do that because it provides the opportunity to introduce an incorrect round (and the armourer would have to unload/reload again!).
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Re: Live ammo on film set?

Post by bladeracer » 26 Oct 2021, 1:00 am

Diamond Jim wrote:"All these hollywood losers who want to ban guns yet have no concept of firearm safety. What kind of sycophant just takes someones word for it that the firearm is clear and does not check it themself."

If actors could be trusted to know even basic firearm safety maybe this would make sense. The fact is, most "artistic" types are anti-gun and probably never handle one unless on a film set or stage.

That's why a professional armourer is required to ensure safety. I seriously doubt that an actor would even be allowed to check the condidion of a firearm he/she was handed by the armourer (note: the armourer should hand over the firearm not the assistant director - WTF is anyone apart from the armourer and the actor doing touching a firearm on set?).

To safety check a SA revolver would mean completely unloading it and reloading. The actor would/should never be allowed to do that because it provides the opportunity to introduce an incorrect round (and the armourer would have to unload/reload again!).


If they want to do it that way then the actor should be there during the loading, and immediately take charge of the firearm. I could never ever take a firearm from another person who tells me it is safe, then point it at somebody and pull the trigger, never in a million years would my brain allow me to do it without checking it myself.
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Re: Live ammo on film set?

Post by Bill » 26 Oct 2021, 5:39 am

FFS an armourer is employed for gun safety on a Movie set, no different to having an explosive expert rig and check things that go bang or do we also want the Actor checking these aswell. There were safe guards which were in place but were clearly ignored and if talk of people plinking with live ammo is true then the AD and Armourer in for a world of Butt hurt.
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Re: Live ammo on film set?

Post by wrenchman » 26 Oct 2021, 6:10 am

This is very sad thing it is even sadder because it is a ass that thinks he knows it all and wants to tell you how to live.
I like to watch the movie the edge with Antony Hopkins because alec Baldwin dies being a true to life ass
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Re: Live ammo on film set?

Post by cz515 » 26 Oct 2021, 6:25 am

I am not an expert at this topic.

But I assume the reason for an armour is due to liability and as a safety requirements. Its not the responsibility of the actor to be checking the firearm.

Just imagine a scene a connivance is about to shoot a cop, considering every scene is probably had multiple takes, the actor trying to remember the lines, trying to be in the zone to shoot. And then trying to check the firearm before firing.... hmm


Anyway going back to the armourer, she is the daughter of some famous Hollywood armourer and been trained by him since she was quite young so probably been doing this for 10+ years.

Which leads me to think she was either inexperienced, bad at authority as allowing people to shoot live bullets. Or the whole movie was a s**t show.

And something like this just an accident away. A sad accident indeed.
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Re: Live ammo on film set?

Post by disco stu » 26 Oct 2021, 9:00 am

I'm also a bit shocked that the assistant producer would pick up a firearm and call out that it's unloaded without checking if it is first.

I've no idea what goes on when making movies, but I thought the armourer would be the only one to hand firearms over to actors etc. Part of me wonders if the assistant producer or someone else higher up was a "shut your mouth and do what I tell you" type, and the armourer being young might not have stood up to them.

Part of me feels that the buck would stop with the person claiming the firearm is unloaded and safe to the whole crew
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Re: Live ammo on film set?

Post by ThePlinkster » 26 Oct 2021, 9:42 am

Baldwin
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Re: Live ammo on film set?

Post by bladeracer » 26 Oct 2021, 9:45 am

Bill wrote:FFS an armourer is employed for gun safety on a Movie set, no different to having an explosive expert rig and check things that go bang or do we also want the Actor checking these aswell. There were safe guards which were in place but were clearly ignored and if talk of people plinking with live ammo is true then the AD and Armourer in for a world of Butt hurt.


If the actor is taking the responsibility of firing the pyros then, yes, he needs to check for himself that it is safe to do.
Absolutely, lots and lots of negligence going on, but the buck always stops with the finger on the trigger. Few scenes are shot such that a firearm needs to be aimed directly at a person at close range, so even when an event like this does happen the result should be nothing more than a hole in the set and some soiled underwear.

If he felt uncomfortable with the scene he should've said no, and they could have worked around it. I think his own personality, mainly arrogance and ego, dug this hole for him. Is a shame others got hurt and killed as a result, but he is the person that pointed a firearm at them and deliberately fired it. I'm sure sure he and the studio will throw enough money at the problem to destroy somebody else's life instead of his though, it is the US.
Last edited by bladeracer on 26 Oct 2021, 10:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Live ammo on film set?

Post by bladeracer » 26 Oct 2021, 9:46 am

ThePlinkster wrote:Baldwin


That is 24-caret gold ;-)
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Re: Live ammo on film set?

Post by bladeracer » 26 Oct 2021, 9:52 am

cz515 wrote:I am not an expert at this topic.

But I assume the reason for an armour is due to liability and as a safety requirements. Its not the responsibility of the actor to be checking the firearm.

Just imagine a scene a connivance is about to shoot a cop, considering every scene is probably had multiple takes, the actor trying to remember the lines, trying to be in the zone to shoot. And then trying to check the firearm before firing.... hmm


Anyway going back to the armourer, she is the daughter of some famous Hollywood armourer and been trained by him since she was quite young so probably been doing this for 10+ years.

Which leads me to think she was either inexperienced, bad at authority as allowing people to shoot live bullets. Or the whole movie was a s**t show.

And something like this just an accident away. A sad accident indeed.


Everybody has a responsibility to not kill other people. You don't point a gun at somebody without _yourself_ making very, very certain it is safe to so, and you certainly do not pull the trigger while it is pointed at somebody, not even for a $100,000 pay cheque.
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Re: Live ammo on film set?

Post by Oldbloke » 26 Oct 2021, 10:04 am

disco stu wrote:I'm also a bit shocked that the assistant producer would pick up a firearm and call out that it's unloaded without checking if it is first.

I've no idea what goes on when making movies, but I thought the armourer would be the only one to hand firearms over to actors etc. Part of me wonders if the assistant producer or someone else higher up was a "shut your mouth and do what I tell you" type, and the armourer being young might not have stood up to them.

Part of me feels that the buck would stop with the person claiming the firearm is unloaded and safe to the whole crew


Safety costs. It is common practice by companies to hire young inexperience OHS staff so they can do just that. She (the armourer) was only 24. So the above is certainly a strong possibility.
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Re: Live ammo on film set?

Post by boingk » 26 Oct 2021, 11:44 am

So, I've done a bit of reading on this. A few industry experts have weighed into the fight and said some pretty logical and common sense things;

1) No live ammo on set, period.

2) No people in the line of fire. A badly manufactured blank, poor quality brass, barrel obstruction of any kind, or god forbid a live round (as suspected in this case) will lead to projectiles leaving the barrel with potential to cause injury/death.

3) Ballistic shields. These can range from simple flat perspex shields right through to elaborate ballistic cages for the camera and associated crew. They should be in place regardless of your positioning to the firearm in case of ricochet, shrapnel, or unintended projectile.

4) Checking of the firearm should be conducted in presence of all the people involved for the scene. It should start unloaded and be loaded with blanks. All personell should be given the chance to view this, or inspect under supervision of the armourer. Again, blanks only.

With those sorts of checks in place you shouldn't have injuries. The fact remains that NONE of these procedures were in place, or at least followed for this scene.

I'd wager there will be lawsuits for AB the actor, the producer, the production company itself as well as the armourer.

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Re: Live ammo on film set?

Post by Faedy » 26 Oct 2021, 9:23 pm

The way I see it is
They should Never have live ammo allowed on set.
They should never have a prop gun capable of firing a projectile.
Prop gun barrels should be plugged
And the kicker is.
Never point a farking gun......
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Re: Live ammo on film set?

Post by Diamond Jim » 26 Oct 2021, 10:43 pm

I also did a bit of research on firearms on film sets and was surprised to learn that fully functional firearms are quite common on film sets. However the Assistant Director should never have handed the weapon to the actor.
The AD instructs the Armourer as to which firearms are required in the sequence being filmed and what condition is required - i.e. unloaded, dummy cartridge, blank cartridge etc. - but never handles the firearm.
The Armourer hands the gun to the actor after showing it is clear and verbally declaring so. The actor verbally confirms "gun clear" (or maybe even "cold gun") on taking it.
If blank or dummy cartridges are to be used, the armourer loads the firearm under the supervision of the AD and the actor. On handing it to the actor the armourer verbally declares "hot gun" (or similar) as appropriate and the actor confirms verbally "hot gun".
The armourer takes the gun immediately after the scene and unloads and shows "clear" to the AD who confirms "gun clear". The gun is stored in a secure area when not in use.
Absolutely NO live ammunition on set EVER!
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Re: Live ammo on film set?

Post by wanneroo » 27 Oct 2021, 12:08 am

bladeracer wrote:
I think it's great karma myself.
He has been vocally anti-gun for decades, while enjoying the fruits of selling firearms to the public by virtue of using them in his movies.


Alec Baldwin is probably one of the biggest arrogant jackwads out there and with an explosive temper.

Ironically if he had joined the NRA and had learned some basic gun safety and gun handling skills this never would have happened. But instead he labels NRA members as 'nazis'.

And well look where he is now, under New Mexico law he's probably getting charged.

I don't feel the least bit bad about his situation, only the victims. He's going to be facing a large amount of civil and criminal litigation.
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Re: Live ammo on film set?

Post by Diamond Jim » 27 Oct 2021, 1:46 am

wanneroo wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
I think it's great karma myself.
He has been vocally anti-gun for decades, while enjoying the fruits of selling firearms to the public by virtue of using them in his movies.


Alec Baldwin is probably one of the biggest arrogant jackwads out there and with an explosive temper.

Ironically if he had joined the NRA and had learned some basic gun safety and gun handling skills this never would have happened. But instead he labels NRA members as 'nazis'.

And well look where he is now, under New Mexico law he's probably getting charged.

I don't feel the least bit bad about his situation, only the victims. He's going to be facing a large amount of civil and criminal litigation.



Yes, he's an ass but someone is dead that shouldn't be. This isn't about ramming it up the anti's but should be a lesson to those of us who want to keep our privileges to be ever more vigilant that we always observe safe gun handling and never get complacent.
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Re: Live ammo on film set?

Post by cz515 » 27 Oct 2021, 6:33 am

Diamond words Jim
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Re: Live ammo on film set?

Post by Fionn » 27 Oct 2021, 9:31 am

The T-shirts are already out

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Re: Live ammo on film set?

Post by bladeracer » 27 Oct 2021, 11:59 am

Diamond Jim wrote:Yes, he's an ass but someone is dead that shouldn't be. This isn't about ramming it up the anti's but should be a lesson to those of us who want to keep our privileges to be ever more vigilant that we always observe safe gun handling and never get complacent.


I disagree. He has been one of the most vocal "celebs" putting it into us, and the entire right, for years, while making a hell of a lot of money out of the very stuff he claims is so evil. The only thing I know him from in the past 25 years is his atrocious, but continual, attempt to lampoon Trump on SNL, for money. The clips I've seen make no attempt at humour, it's pure bullying (something he is also known to enjoy, even more than "acting") to push his leftist agenda. The agenda being of course to make tons of money out of pushing his country back into the 1800's.

He fully deserves everything he'll manage to foist onto some other innocent party via copious amounts of cash and industry pressure.
He killed a person because he is the very type of person _he_ believes should _never_ have access to firearms, except for him and his cronies.

I'm wondering more about how many other things he's managed to get away with over the years that never became public...

No amount of vigilance on our part will ever satisfy the anti-gun nuts. We could go decades without a single armed robbery, armed assault, a hunter being killed in an accident, or an actor killing somebody through negligence, and they would still want us all disarmed.
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