Live ammo on film set?

[perentie]

This seems to happen too often. Why?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59005500

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/al ... t-n1282126

[No1_49er]

[quote="perentie"]This seems to happen too often. Why?

Perhaps you could explain your assertion that "This seems to happen too often. Why?"

Maybe you've got a plethora of examples that you can provide us?

[Oldbloke]

In the last 40 years twice I believe, now this, makes three.

Blanks can kill.

[perentie]

This seems to happen too often. Why?

Perhaps you could explain your assertion that "This seems to happen too often. Why?"

Maybe you've got a plethora of examples that you can provide us?

Twice is too often.
In fact it should not happen at all with all the checks and balances in place.

[Oldbloke]

This seems to happen too often. Why?

Perhaps you could explain your assertion that "This seems to happen too often. Why?"

Maybe you've got a plethora of examples that you can provide us?

Twice is too often.
In fact it should not happen at all with all the checks and balances in place.

Of course.

[cz515]

This seems to happen too often. Why?

Perhaps you could explain your assertion that "This seems to happen too often. Why?"

Maybe you've got a plethora of examples that you can provide us?

Twice is too often.
In fact it should not happen at all with all the checks and balances in place.

Ofcourse. But accidents do happen. Even with all OH&S (sorry OB) rules and consultants in the world, accidents will happen.

[wanneroo]

Sounds like from what I read, it was your typical low budget cut corners situation with amateur hour armorers, a union camera crew that quit, accidental discharges from a prop gun previous to the fatal shooting and all sorts of other stupid stuff.

[Larry]

Still no matter what this sounds more like f***ing around doing stupid s**t as well as someone doing something purposely.
Why did AB pick up a gun and point and shoot it at two of his directors? He broke several firearm rules right there.
I get that real or at least real looking ammo might be on set who want to see blanks laying on the battlefield. But whoever put them in that gun is responsible for murder.
So much wrong in this story.

[disco stu]

It could have been a scene where they had to shoot towards the camera or similar. Who knows for certain though, but I just don't think blaming the actor is fair without knowing knowing if he was goofing around being an idiot or actually doing what he was told to do. I would think the person responsible for safety in that instance would make sure no one was in the line of fire.

But the fact live rounds were there at all.........

[bigrich]

Sounds like from what I read, it was your typical low budget cut corners situation with amateur hour armorers, a union camera crew that quit, accidental discharges from a prop gun previous to the fatal shooting and all sorts of other stupid stuff.

Thanks for the additional information mate. I’ve read some other comments on this topic, I think I’ll wait for more facts to come out about this tragedy before I form a opinion

[Oldbloke]

Sounds like from what I read, it was your typical low budget cut corners situation with amateur hour armorers, a union camera crew that quit, accidental discharges from a prop gun previous to the fatal shooting and all sorts of other stupid stuff.

Thanks for the additional information mate. I’ve read some other comments on this topic, I think I’ll wait for more facts to come out about this tragedy before I form a opinion

That's my view as well.

[Blr243]

People mostly respect Real firearms And handle accordingly.....perhaps there’s a general idea among the movie crowd that .....ITS OK ..THEY ARE JUST FAKE GUNS ...... right there is the answer. , that fake prop gun attitude needs to change......every single gun needs to be treated With respect like a real loaded gun .....then Actors will hopefully stop Killing each other

[Bugman]

Could well be that not enough checks and balances were carried out. No doubt the Coroner will reveal all. Sad to lose a gifted cinematographer in that way.

[Communism_Is_Cancer]

The cookie is crumbling!!!!!!! Hours before the shooting some cameramen walked off set to protest poor conditions for the low budget movie. Days before the shooting Alec Baldwins stunt double fired off a round accidentally as he was told the firearm was not loaded.


All these hollywood losers who want to ban guns yet have no concept of firearm safety. What kind of sycophant just takes someones word for it that the firearm is clear and does not check it themself.

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-a ... ed-off-set

[bigrich]

The cookie is crumbling!!!!!!! Hours before the shooting some cameramen walked off set to protest poor conditions for the low budget movie. Days before the shooting Alec Baldwins stunt double fired off a round accidentally as he was told the firearm was not loaded.


All these hollywood losers who want to ban guns yet have no concept of firearm safety. What kind of sycophant just takes someones word for it that the firearm is clear and does not check it themself.

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-a ... ed-off-set

agreed . alec baldwin is a bit of a anti gun lefty from memory i think . wouldn't be suprised if this gets used for more anti gun propoganda instead of the people handling the firearms taking responsability

[Oldbloke]

Hope I get this right.
Reports indicate:
A number of firearm related safety incidents in the days prior.
Live ammo was in use. (This surprised me)
The armourer was young and likely not a lot of experience.
Some union members walked off the site just hours before the death citing to firearm related safety concerns.
They use real firearms, (I expected this.)
Baldwin believed the gun was empty at the time.
The firearm was given to Baldwin by Assistant director Dave Halls.

To me, sounds like a debacle. But there will be more come out later.

More here.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-23/ ... /100562498

[bigrich]

Hope I get this right.
Reports indicate:
A number of firearm related safety incidents in the days prior.
Live ammo was in use. (This surprised me)
The armourer was young and likely not a lot of experience.
Some union members walked off the site just hours before the death citing to firearm related safety concerns.
They use real firearms, (I expected this.)
Baldwin believed the gun was empty at the time.
The firearm was given to Baldwin by Assistant director Dave Halls.

To me, sounds like a debacle. But there will be more come out later.

More here.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-23/ ... /100562498

prop gun or not, they should be treated with respect . maybe firearms saftey coarses should be mandatory for films that involve firearms

[Larry]

I would have thought that mandatory before each scene. A bit like work site Job risk assessments. A electrician cant just start work without going through like a flight check list before take off.

[wanneroo]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -film.html

Many more details in this article about how it happened.

I've seen this in various industries I have worked in that are "gig" type industries. When a company cuts corners on the day rate and other stuff, they cut corners everywhere else and it turns into amateur hour. I've seen companies that cut their day rate and working conditions in the belief that hey this guy working as a french fry cook at McDonalds, hey he shot a gun before or drove a car, lets use him. And then disaster happens.

[Tiger650]

sky news has already had some clown comment that this must reflect on the availability of firearms.
Baldwin is the damn Director, who else is responsible for management of the s#itshow ?
Also he shot a Cinematographer, pretty sure she was not doubling as an actor ?
Baldwin is a rabid lefty anti gun zealot, Hollywood trash who make their living out of depicting violence and promoting societal perversion.
New Mexico is Democrat, he will walk.

[Die Judicii]

After reading all the comments/replies in this thread,,,,,,,,, The real BIG issue has not even been mentioned.

The buck should have stopped with the last person in line.
ie: The person who pulled the trigger.

For Christ sake,,,,,,,,,,, regardless of there being an armorer employed on the set,,,,,,,, and regardless of any OH+S protocol,,,,,,,,,
The person that pulled the trigger should have done his/her own check of the weapon/ammo before using it.

If anyone hands you a rifle,,, and says, "It's ok, it's not loaded,,,,, or it's only a prop/stage gun,,, you do NOT take their word as Gospel truth.
You check it yourself. FFS.

[Oldbloke]

Agree DJ. But I'm guessing a armourer is hired because majority of actors know SFA about forearms. And info is that the armourer was an inexperienced 24 yr old woman.

[Die Judicii]

Agree DJ. But I'm guessing a armourer is hired because majority of actors know SFA about forearms. And info is that the armourer was an inexperienced 24 yr old woman.

One could rightfully expect to see criminal charges laid in that respect alone.

Oh, and as an aside,,,,,,,,,, "forearms" really,,,,, ???

[bigrich]

Agree DJ. But I'm guessing a armourer is hired because majority of actors know SFA about forearms. And info is that the armourer was an inexperienced 24 yr old woman.

Heard yesterday on main stream media, the same pistol was being used by the crew with live ammo for plinking. And they kept the live ammo in the same storage as the blanks FFS ! If this is correct, that’s gotta be the dumbest thing to do

[Communism_Is_Cancer]

The whole situation sounds like a debacle. Literally every single thing that could of gone wrong, did go wrong. Movie guns are more often than not fully functioning guns and not toys as a lot of people think.

The movie was set in the late 1880s so I wonder if the round was a 45 long colt seeing as the one projectile went through 2 people.

[Oldbloke]

Perhaps, simply no safety procedures in place. In any case they were not followed.

[bladeracer]

The whole situation sounds like a debacle. Literally every single thing that could of gone wrong, did go wrong. Movie guns are more often than not fully functioning guns and not toys as a lot of people think.

The movie was set in the late 1880s so I wonder if the round was a 45 long colt seeing as the one projectile went through 2 people.

Movie prop firearms that are used at distance, or only holstered, or carried during stunt work are usually rubber or resin moulds with no moving parts. Firearms handled close-up are very often real firearms with dummy ammo. Those used in shooting scenes are often real also, but firing blanks. Semi-auto and auto firearms generally need some sort of concealed blank-fire adaptor to provide pressure to cycle the action. This is generally just a plug in the barrel with a small hole through it to vent the excess gas out the muzzle.

Even here in Oz movies bring in functioning firearms on the very strict proviso that they leave the country afterwards.

Very low-budget directors often use Airsoft replicas and add the effects later on.

Essentially, movie producers are constrained by what we, the paying public (I haven't paid to watch a movie since I got roped into Lord of the Rings for a mate's birthday, before that the last movie I'd paid for was Spiderman, again dragged to it by a mate) will accept in place of the firearms we know and love. I can't imagine Blackhawk Down shot with Airsoft toys would've gone down well

[bladeracer]

Live ammo has been used in movies also, although very rare to find it documented. Sometimes it's just a hell of a lot easier to get a puff of sand by firing a bullet at a hill side than get an armourer and a pyro team out and cordon off several acres of land for a day.

[bladeracer]

An example that most us should be familiar with is the Quigley Rifle, a genuine fully-functional lever-action rifle used in filming Quigley Down Under. There are numerous reports of them firing live ammo through it off set during the making of the movie.

[Communism_Is_Cancer]

A good video from gun Jesus about movie firearms.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnOUrRT ... e=youtu.be