National service for Australian youth

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National service for Australian youth

Post by samf » 16 Apr 2014, 11:10 am

You might have caught this on Monday.

Instead of having kids on the dole who don't know what they're doing with their life, get them into the army for a term.

Not a bad suggestion I thought, especially coming from someone who's been there herself... Can't accuse her of being one of these old farts who's happy to impose rules on a generation they're no longer part of. Too many of these things get killed that way when the people pushing the idea have never/will never be effected by it.

Dunno about you but I could have used a bit more discipline and work ethic drilled into me as a kid :D

Palmer United Party Senator-elect Jacqui Lambie proposes fighting youth unemployment with national service

COMBAT youth unemployment with national service. That’s what Palmer United Party senator-elect Jacqui Lambie suggests.

The former Australian Army soldier who joins the upper house in July wants to see a greater utilisation of military national service.

“You can put them in for 12 months. I’m not saying they sign on for war,” she told ABC TV on Monday night.

Senator-elect Lambie made her debut appearance on the ABC program last night.

Such a stint would arm young people with valuable experience for the workforce, Ms Lambie said.

“It’s got to be better than being on the dole.”

The suggestion sparked debate and some derision.


Article here.
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Re: National service for Australian youth

Post by Baldrick314 » 16 Apr 2014, 11:28 am

Good idea I reckon. Being backed by the Palmer party though it may not gain traction cos a lot of people don't take them all so seriously
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Re: National service for Australian youth

Post by Warrigul » 16 Apr 2014, 11:47 am

Baldrick314 wrote:Good idea I reckon. Being backed by the Palmer party though it may not gain traction cos a lot of people don't take them all so seriously


Clive Palmers stance on firearms automatically put me offside and I would never vote for them however I find it ironical that the major parties are deriding Jacqui Lambie for speaking her mind.

Indeed perhaps they are simply afraid the majority of Australians will end up preferring honest opinions instead of carefully crafted party line policies read verbatim from a carefully scripted speech(probably written by a PR guru and calculated to appeal to the voter rather than address the cold hard facts).

If only she could have had the preparation that Brian Harridine(may he rest in peace, I for one think he did a magnificent job) received(courtesy of the Labour movement) before entering parliament.
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Re: National service for Australian youth

Post by SendIt » 16 Apr 2014, 4:27 pm

“It’s got to be better than being on the dole.”

Can't argue with that.
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Re: National service for Australian youth

Post by headspace » 04 May 2014, 5:55 pm

Unfortunately that won't work in today's Army.

There are looking for professionals not a bunch of misfits who can't get out of bed in the morning.

Work for the dole is a better look and they don't get to play with any guns.

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Re: National service for Australian youth

Post by Xerox » 04 May 2014, 9:46 pm

headspace wrote:Work for the dole is a better look and they don't get to play with any guns.


I don't really know, but I imagine the jobs in 'work for the dole' are all pretty bottom of the barrel.

Doesn't the defence force to apprentice type setups where you are 'in the army' but learning to be an electrician or things like that?

That's gotta be better than stacking shelves or some crap like that on work for the dole.
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Re: National service for Australian youth

Post by sooey » 04 May 2014, 10:21 pm

headspace wrote:Unfortunately that won't work in today's Army.


I'm sure she's got slightly higher hopes than just paying them to play with guns and hopefully not shoot themselves.

Gotta be something useful they can learn/do.
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Post by Davies » 04 May 2014, 10:25 pm

Stuff like the tech trades is good in theory.

Gotta have half a brain to have a chance though is the problem I guess. If you could do it you probably already would be... Wouldn't be on the dole to start.
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Post by Baldrick314 » 05 May 2014, 5:35 am

Davies wrote:Stuff like the tech trades is good in theory.

Gotta have half a brain to have a chance though is the problem I guess. If you could do it you probably already would be... Wouldn't be on the dole to start.


There's always the one's that are completely capable but are either lazy or out to rort the system
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Re: National service for Australian youth

Post by Davies » 05 May 2014, 9:12 am

Yeah true.

I'd be happy to let those lazy ones fend for themselves but you don't wanna catch up the needy in cutting them off I guess.

It's tough...
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Re: National service for Australian youth

Post by whert » 05 May 2014, 9:19 am

Baldrick314 wrote:There's always the one's that are completely capable but are either lazy or out to rort the system


There are definitely those.

A mate of mine works for a tech support phone place and they have some arrangement with centrelink or whatever to place people. (I dunno the details but that's the short version).

Anyway the policy is there is a 2 week training period or whatever and there are a few things which are 'instant fails' like being absent for two days.

One of the guys gets a phone call in the middle of a presentation and stands up the back of the room taking the call. Afterwards he says he's gotta go because he's "gotta move some cars" :shock: :? Whatever the hell that means?

Didn't show up the next day....

Got the boot a couple of days later and was apparently pretty happy with getting the boot. Obviously just wants to be back on the dole.
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Re: National service for Australian youth

Post by Baldrick314 » 05 May 2014, 6:01 pm

whert wrote:There are definitely those.

A mate of mine works for a tech support phone place and they have some arrangement with centrelink or whatever to place people. (I dunno the details but that's the short version).

Anyway the policy is there is a 2 week training period or whatever and there are a few things which are 'instant fails' like being absent for two days.

One of the guys gets a phone call in the middle of a presentation and stands up the back of the room taking the call. Afterwards he says he's gotta go because he's "gotta move some cars" :shock: :? Whatever the hell that means?

Didn't show up the next day....

Got the boot a couple of days later and was apparently pretty happy with getting the boot. Obviously just wants to be back on the dole.


In a perfect world they'd get cut off if they stuffed up a job that was given to them like that
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Re: National service for Australian youth

Post by petemacsydney » 05 May 2014, 6:25 pm

I've been lucky enough to have never been without work, but if i was without work, i would be happy to work for the dole in whatever industry or discipline the community see's fit.

There's no such thing as a free lunch, so i don't think its unreasonable to ask someone to work for the dole - after all, its tax payers who are paying the bill !!

In terms of national service, i personally believe the nation would benefit from a mandatory service stint for all youth (regardless of employ), just like most European nations.

There's a lot to be gained from the exercise, although I doubt it would ever happen...
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Re: National service for Australian youth

Post by Norton » 06 May 2014, 2:38 pm

Baldrick314 wrote:In a perfect world they'd get cut off if they stuffed up a job that was given to them like that


+1
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Re: National service for Australian youth

Post by samf » 06 May 2014, 2:41 pm

petemacsydney wrote:I've been lucky enough to have never been without work, but if i was without work, i would be happy to work for the dole in whatever industry or discipline the community see's fit.


Yeah there must be something.

Pick up trash, scrub off graffiti, I'm sure there are hundreds of things they could be doing if the Gov gave it some thought.

If people don't want to menial jobs for their government paycheck, all the more incentive to go and get a job yourself.
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Re: National service for Australian youth

Post by Oldbloke » 07 May 2014, 9:20 pm

I have provided training to the unemployed.

It is a mix, some desperate to work and some totally not interested, usually the kids are less interested.

I would be cautious about putting the less interested in the ADF, may be problematic and costly to manage. But for those keen, the Government should give them a go.

There is a serious shortage of trades persons, now because the Government stopped having apprentices about 30 yrs ago.

Sometimes cost cutting can be too deep.
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Re: National service for Australian youth

Post by Hennie Dreyer » 08 May 2014, 3:43 am

Look - I may be out of line here since I am not an Australian citizen (wish I was though)

I was forced by the then government to go to the army at the tender age of 17 years for two years (Albeit to prepare for a 'war' we never understood)

But that aside, I do think this was a good thing that happened to me. Let me explain:

1. The first two - three months army initiation/training was horrifically strenuous and pushed me physically and mentally so far beyond a point that I never thought I am capable of! I am still proud today that I could make it
2. This gave me self respect and discipline
3. This gave me the perspective that one can achieve anything really...just apply your mind...and blah blah blah

Reason I reply to this post is: I do feel for the youngsters out there who get out of school unemployed and land up in a 'leaderless' situation - the army made me feel proud that I could do things, I had my mates with me, we laughed and cried together, became tough as nails together, had seriously good fun and bad times together, and you know what? We even got paid to do that... could be good for them, or not?

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Post by Warrigul » 08 May 2014, 10:40 am

Hennie Dreyer wrote:Look - I may be out of line here since I am not an Australian citizen (wish I was though)

1. The first two - three months army initiation/training was horrifically strenuous and pushed me physically and mentally so far beyond a point that I never thought I am capable of! I am still proud today that I could make it
2. This gave me self respect and discipline
3. This gave me the perspective that one can achieve anything really...just apply your mind...and blah blah blah



Thank you for your perspective,

Yes, I know two people who have been through the South African system, pretty serious stuff at times.

I personally believe youth are capable of great deeds if led properly (be it at school, work or in the military), over here we often talk badly of them when it really is our own fault they treat life that way.

On Monday I had to listen to a teacher try to tell me my son (a prefect) was out of school uniform for wearing white socks with a small nike tick on the top edge and that he was setting a bad example - all whilst this teacher was wearing a T shirt, shorts and thongs. It didn't end well.

Our youth in Australia are just badly led (well some of them anyway).
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Re: National service for Australian youth

Post by VICHunter » 08 May 2014, 10:51 am

Oldbloke wrote:Sometimes cost cutting can be too deep.


Dunno if you've been following the budget stuff on the radio this week?

Cuts, cuts, cuts, cuts, cuts...

Everything gets announced next week I think. Quite a few people going to meet with the short end of a stick soon I think...
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Re: National service for Australian youth

Post by Norton » 08 May 2014, 10:57 am

Warrigul wrote:On Monday I had to listen to a teacher try to tell me my son (a prefect) was out of school uniform for wearing white socks with a small nike tick on the top edge and that he was setting a bad example - all whilst this teacher was wearing a T shirt, shorts and thongs. It didn't end well.


I can't stand people like that. They get some tenuous shred of "power" and this is what they do with it.

They should go find something useful to do... Maybe try and teach some kids or something. Wild idea?
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Re: National service for Australian youth

Post by headspace » 13 May 2014, 7:59 pm

Didn't end well eh Warrigal; I think I'd have paid money to see that one! Ha
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Re: National service for Australian youth

Post by yoshie » 13 May 2014, 8:27 pm

Don't defence do firearms training with electronic simulation, and runaround with pipes and packs etc. (Spent some time at holesworthy as a contactor) I know they eventually do live fire but you could train national service intake that way? They are the PlayStation generaton anyway... I think they could be trained to drive a heavy vehicle, cook for 200 people, and other skills like that, not so much soldiering.
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Re: National service for Australian youth

Post by inventurkey » 13 May 2014, 11:09 pm

yoshie wrote:Don't defence do firearms training with electronic simulation, and runaround with pipes and packs etc.


Someone was talking about that on here the other day.

Air Force I think?

Others too maybe but I think this person was in the AF.
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Re: National service for Australian youth

Post by FuzzyM » 04 Aug 2014, 3:29 pm

To save money the government is planning on making all people under the age of 30 ineligible for the doll unless they have been out of work for 6 months.

I am a responsible 22 year old and I have just bought my first home, under the new scheme if I were to lose my job I would be relying on my partners childcare wage to support us both until I found a new one. Yet losers I went to school with went for years without getting a job, they are eligible.

Sigh.
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Re: National service for Australian youth

Post by Baldrick314 » 04 Aug 2014, 5:48 pm

FuzzyM wrote:To save money the government is planning on making all people under the age of 30 ineligible for the doll unless they have been out of work for 6 months.
I am a responsible 22 year old and I have just bought my first home, under the new scheme if I were to lose my job I would be relying on my partners childcare wage to support us both until I found a new one. Yet losers I went to school with went for years without getting a job, they are eligible.
Sigh.


Mate I lost my job about 6 months after I bought my first house. Went to centrelink, never been on a payment before but worked since I was 16. They told me my wife earned too much ($50,000) and I should sell the house and use the money to get somewhere to rent :shock: I ended up back in work after a month but I couldn't believe their advice
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Re: National service for Australian youth

Post by petemacsydney » 04 Aug 2014, 6:19 pm

jesus, that's lame advice!
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Re: National service for Australian youth

Post by Norton » 05 Aug 2014, 10:14 am

Baldrick314 wrote:They told me my wife earned too much ($50,000) and I should sell the house and use the money to get somewhere to rent


Pathetic. Nothing else to say...

Would love to see how the idiot that said that likes losing their house.
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