SSAA Magazine - ADI Powder & Trail Boss Update

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SSAA Magazine - ADI Powder & Trail Boss Update

Post by Jackaroo » 29 Dec 2021, 10:56 am

Does anyone remember what month the SSAA published an ADI Powder & Trail Boss Update this year?
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Re: SSAA Magazine - ADI Powder & Trail Boss Update

Post by No1Mk3 » 29 Dec 2021, 11:36 am

Can't recall, if you want the latest check ADI website or search this forum, there is a thread made recently, like the last fortnight. Cheers.
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Re: SSAA Magazine - ADI Powder & Trail Boss Update

Post by rc42 » 29 Dec 2021, 11:38 am

http://www.adiworldclass.com.au/2021/12 ... nt-update/

no good news for pistol/shotgun reloading
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Re: SSAA Magazine - ADI Powder & Trail Boss Update

Post by bigrich » 29 Dec 2021, 11:55 am

rc42 wrote:http://www.adiworldclass.com.au/2021/12/16/propellant-update/

no good news for pistol/shotgun reloading


unfortunately ya need the same powders for 22 hornet as well :cry:
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Re: SSAA Magazine - ADI Powder & Trail Boss Update

Post by Jackaroo » 29 Dec 2021, 12:03 pm

Thanks, but there was a large article in one of the SSAA magazines this year where it went into depth the reasons and explained the problems that ADI was having.
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Re: SSAA Magazine - ADI Powder & Trail Boss Update

Post by rc42 » 29 Dec 2021, 2:11 pm

ADI posted a news item about their problems, blaming weather, humidity, new factory etc etc but they removed it after a few weeks, I think this is the one, duplicated on the SSAA facebook pages but the problems sound like BS.

https://www.facebook.com/ssaahacq60/pos ... 244517892/



With regard to 22 Hornet, 2207 powder has load data available from ADI themselves and that is still available
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Re: SSAA Magazine - ADI Powder & Trail Boss Update

Post by Jackaroo » 29 Dec 2021, 4:04 pm

rc42 wrote:ADI posted a news item about their problems, blaming weather, humidity, new factory etc etc but they removed it after a few weeks, I think this is the one, duplicated on the SSAA facebook pages but the problems sound like BS.

https://www.facebook.com/ssaahacq60/pos ... 244517892/



With regard to 22 Hornet, 2207 powder has load data available from ADI themselves and that is still available



Thanks for that link.

Does anyone remember SSAA in a magazine article mentioning and quoting ADI that "so many XX kilos" of Trail Boss powder goes into some Australian Military artillery shells and that's what's causing TB to be non existent at the moment for the civilian market?
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Re: SSAA Magazine - ADI Powder & Trail Boss Update

Post by Communism_Is_Cancer » 30 Dec 2021, 3:03 pm

I can only think to email SSAA magazine editor and ask for the issue number then track down a copy.
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Re: SSAA Magazine - ADI Powder & Trail Boss Update

Post by Jackaroo » 30 Dec 2021, 3:51 pm

Communism_Is_Cancer wrote:I can only think to email SSAA magazine editor and ask for the issue number then track down a copy.



Thanks, I will do that and if I get an answer I'll post it up.

Happy NYE to you.
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Re: SSAA Magazine - ADI Powder & Trail Boss Update

Post by geoff » 31 Dec 2021, 10:43 am

The most salient point for me in this thread is that SSAA have published an issue of their magazine with useful or relevant information in it.

Mind blown..

2021 really has been a wild year folks.
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Re: SSAA Magazine - ADI Powder & Trail Boss Update

Post by No1_49er » 01 Jan 2022, 2:28 pm

Jackaroo wrote:Does anyone remember what month the SSAA published an ADI Powder & Trail Boss Update this year?

Only thing I found is July, starting p48
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Re: SSAA Magazine - ADI Powder & Trail Boss Update

Post by Jackaroo » 01 Jan 2022, 2:32 pm

No1_49er wrote:
Jackaroo wrote:Does anyone remember what month the SSAA published an ADI Powder & Trail Boss Update this year?

Only thing I found is July, starting p48


Thanks for looking.

Does it mention artillery rounds using ADI Trail Boss?
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Re: SSAA Magazine - ADI Powder & Trail Boss Update

Post by bladeracer » 01 Jan 2022, 5:25 pm

Jackaroo wrote:
No1_49er wrote:
Jackaroo wrote:Does anyone remember what month the SSAA published an ADI Powder & Trail Boss Update this year?

Only thing I found is July, starting p48


Thanks for looking.

Does it mention artillery rounds using ADI Trail Boss?


I don't see anything about artillery.
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Re: SSAA Magazine - ADI Powder & Trail Boss Update

Post by bladeracer » 01 Jan 2022, 5:34 pm

Might be something in another issue, but I don't much want to wade through them all.
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Re: SSAA Magazine - ADI Powder & Trail Boss Update

Post by Oldbloke » 01 Jan 2022, 9:06 pm

Do people really think that ADI would tell the world what is in their munitions?

It may not be hard for some to work out but it is defence related info after all.
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Re: SSAA Magazine - ADI Powder & Trail Boss Update

Post by MtnMan » 01 Jan 2022, 9:26 pm

Well if we tell the world we are buying into a nuclear submarine program that will maybe operational in 20 years, why not tell them what powder we use too.
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Re: SSAA Magazine - ADI Powder & Trail Boss Update

Post by bladeracer » 01 Jan 2022, 9:51 pm

Oldbloke wrote:Do people really think that ADI would tell the world what is in their munitions?

It may not be hard for some to work out but it is defence related info after all.


I can't see why it would matter with artillery, anybody interested in the subject already knows what's in there. I would've just assumed they use some sort of smokeless for the primer rather than blackpowder nowadays, but it's possible they produce a propellant for that specific purpose. I think artillery shells are very basic compared to the enormous variety found in smallarms ammunition. I don't believe any artillery uses the same smokeless powders as we use in smallarms, except perhaps as part of the primer.
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Re: SSAA Magazine - ADI Powder & Trail Boss Update

Post by bladeracer » 01 Jan 2022, 9:52 pm

Oldbloke wrote:Do people really think that ADI would tell the world what is in their munitions?

It may not be hard for some to work out but it is defence related info after all.


I know in the US the specifications for smallarms ammunition lists exactly which powder has to be used.
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Re: SSAA Magazine - ADI Powder & Trail Boss Update

Post by bladeracer » 02 Jan 2022, 10:04 am

MtnMan wrote:Well if we tell the world we are buying into a nuclear submarine program that will maybe operational in 20 years, why not tell them what powder we use too.


It'll never be operational, Defence just blew their funding on two-dozen howitzers :-)
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Re: SSAA Magazine - ADI Powder & Trail Boss Update

Post by Oldbloke » 02 Jan 2022, 10:20 am

bladeracer wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:Do people really think that ADI would tell the world what is in their munitions?

It may not be hard for some to work out but it is defence related info after all.


I can't see why it would matter with artillery, anybody interested in the subject already knows what's in there. I would've just assumed they use some sort of smokeless for the primer rather than blackpowder nowadays, but it's possible they produce a propellant for that specific purpose. I think artillery shells are very basic compared to the enormous variety found in smallarms ammunition. I don't believe any artillery uses the same smokeless powders as we use in smallarms, except perhaps as part of the primer.


Agree. And that type of info is well known in the industry. Just seems to me they wouldn't want to make it public.
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Re: SSAA Magazine - ADI Powder & Trail Boss Update

Post by Jackaroo » 02 Jan 2022, 10:21 am

I definitely read in one of the SSAA mags that its around 18 kilos of Trail Boss in some of the artillery shells used by the ADF.
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Re: SSAA Magazine - ADI Powder & Trail Boss Update

Post by bladeracer » 02 Jan 2022, 10:51 am

Jackaroo wrote:I definitely read in one of the SSAA mags that its around 18 kilos of Trail Boss in some of the artillery shells used by the ADF.


Would be interesting, 18kg of TB is a lot of volume, about the same as 50kg of a conventional powder, so it'd have to be a large cartridge.

If I had enough interest in the magazines that'd be worth spending a few hours trying to find. They would have digital copies so could search it for you in seconds, if they were inclined to be helpful, let us know you go with that.
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Re: SSAA Magazine - ADI Powder & Trail Boss Update

Post by Jackaroo » 02 Jan 2022, 10:55 am

bladeracer wrote:
Jackaroo wrote:I definitely read in one of the SSAA mags that its around 18 kilos of Trail Boss in some of the artillery shells used by the ADF.


Would be interesting, 18kg of TB is a lot of volume, about the same as 50kg of a conventional powder, so it'd have to be a large cartridge.

If I had enough interest in the magazines that'd be worth spending a few hours trying to find. They would have digital copies so could search it for you in seconds, if they were inclined to be helpful, let us know you go with that.



I've written to the editor, I think they are closed for some time in Jan though.
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Re: SSAA Magazine - ADI Powder & Trail Boss Update

Post by bladeracer » 02 Jan 2022, 10:58 am

Oldbloke wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:Do people really think that ADI would tell the world what is in their munitions?

It may not be hard for some to work out but it is defence related info after all.


I can't see why it would matter with artillery, anybody interested in the subject already knows what's in there. I would've just assumed they use some sort of smokeless for the primer rather than blackpowder nowadays, but it's possible they produce a propellant for that specific purpose. I think artillery shells are very basic compared to the enormous variety found in smallarms ammunition. I don't believe any artillery uses the same smokeless powders as we use in smallarms, except perhaps as part of the primer.


Agree. And that type of info is well known in the industry. Just seems to me they wouldn't want to make it public.


With military contracts, the required powder is usually part of the specification. It's not like commercial contracts where a resaler asks an ammo manufacturer to make a load that uses this bullet at this velocity giving this accuracy, and leaving the engineering of the cartridge up to the manufacturer.

Actually I'm not correct in the above. When the military puts out a tender for a new munition they do not specify the powder to be used. They only specify the powder after they have accepted a cartridge design, that way all future supply of that type of cartridge must use the same powder, regardless of who manufactures the ammo.
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Re: SSAA Magazine - ADI Powder & Trail Boss Update

Post by bladeracer » 02 Jan 2022, 11:18 am

Aussie 5.56mm NATO F1A1 "Green Tip" for example uses AR2210V01 powder.
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Re: SSAA Magazine - ADI Powder & Trail Boss Update

Post by bigrich » 02 Jan 2022, 2:39 pm

rc42 wrote:ADI posted a news item about their problems, blaming weather, humidity, new factory etc etc but they removed it after a few weeks, I think this is the one, duplicated on the SSAA facebook pages but the problems sound like BS.

https://www.facebook.com/ssaahacq60/pos ... 244517892/



With regard to 22 Hornet, 2207 powder has load data available from ADI themselves and that is still available


yeah , 2207 is not the best powder for 22 hornet but , 2205 was so-so for me as well . good accuracy at times, but speed was down on alliant 2400.

best powder for accuracy/speed was lil gun . closely followed by win296. can't get either in this country anymore :cry:

alliant 2400 gets ok speed , average accuracy . at least that's how things went for me . tried all the tricks , small pistol primers , light crimp ,ect .
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Re: SSAA Magazine - ADI Powder & Trail Boss Update

Post by rc42 » 02 Jan 2022, 3:20 pm

I'm working on a 9mm load right now using 2207 after successfully testing it in 38 Special and 357 Magnum.

A full case with a Berry's 147gn at 1.16" OAL holds a compressed 8.6gn of 2207 and it's enough to get the projectile out of the barrel with almost no recoil and no chance of cycling the slide on a 92FS. A similar recipie with 2205 makes a weak but passible load and will cycle.

Duplex loading is looking promising so I'm working up slowly replacing more of the slow powder with faster powder near the primer.

Yesterday I tested 0.4gn APS350 with 7.6gn of both 2205 and 2207, the rounds with 2205 were actually the best of the day, no cycling issues and the smallest 10 shot group, I don't have a chrono but recoil felt just a little lighter than a factory 147 round.

The duplex loaded 2207 rounds do now cycle the slide but still feel very weak and the group was fairly poor so I'll need to try that with a little more fast powder.


We can make our stocks last a little longer and reload more rounds over the next few years by swapping a small amount of fast powder for a large amount of rifle powder and it looks like some reasonable loads are possible, even in 9mm, but some fast powder is still needed, there's just no way around that.
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Re: SSAA Magazine - ADI Powder & Trail Boss Update

Post by ash_hendo » 06 Jun 2023, 11:09 pm

rc42 wrote:I'm working on a 9mm load right now using 2207 after successfully testing it in 38 Special and 357 Magnum.

A full case with a Berry's 147gn at 1.16" OAL holds a compressed 8.6gn of 2207 and it's enough to get the projectile out of the barrel with almost no recoil and no chance of cycling the slide on a 92FS. A similar recipie with 2205 makes a weak but passible load and will cycle.

Duplex loading is looking promising so I'm working up slowly replacing more of the slow powder with faster powder near the primer.

Yesterday I tested 0.4gn APS350 with 7.6gn of both 2205 and 2207, the rounds with 2205 were actually the best of the day, no cycling issues and the smallest 10 shot group, I don't have a chrono but recoil felt just a little lighter than a factory 147 round.

The duplex loaded 2207 rounds do now cycle the slide but still feel very weak and the group was fairly poor so I'll need to try that with a little more fast powder.


We can make our stocks last a little longer and reload more rounds over the next few years by swapping a small amount of fast powder for a large amount of rifle powder and it looks like some reasonable loads are possible, even in 9mm, but some fast powder is still needed, there's just no way around that.


This is interesting, are you still "duplexing"? I was thinking of doing this (uncompressed) with trailboss and AR2207 in 9mm or 357 mag...
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Re: SSAA Magazine - ADI Powder & Trail Boss Update

Post by deye243 » 06 Jun 2023, 11:52 pm

ash_hendo wrote:
rc42 wrote:I'm working on a 9mm load right now using 2207 after successfully testing it in 38 Special and 357 Magnum.

A full case with a Berry's 147gn at 1.16" OAL holds a compressed 8.6gn of 2207 and it's enough to get the projectile out of the barrel with almost no recoil and no chance of cycling the slide on a 92FS. A similar recipie with 2205 makes a weak but passible load and will cycle.

Duplex loading is looking promising so I'm working up slowly replacing more of the slow powder with faster powder near the primer.

Yesterday I tested 0.4gn APS350 with 7.6gn of both 2205 and 2207, the rounds with 2205 were actually the best of the day, no cycling issues and the smallest 10 shot group, I don't have a chrono but recoil felt just a little lighter than a factory 147 round.

The duplex loaded 2207 rounds do now cycle the slide but still feel very weak and the group was fairly poor so I'll need to try that with a little more fast powder.


We can make our stocks last a little longer and reload more rounds over the next few years by swapping a small amount of fast powder for a large amount of rifle powder and it looks like some reasonable loads are possible, even in 9mm, but some fast powder is still needed, there's just no way around that.


This is interesting, are you still "duplexing"? I was thinking of doing this (uncompressed) with trailboss and AR2207 in 9mm or 357 mag...

You cannot do it without compressing it or it will just mix in the case major no no the object of the game is to put the fast burning powder in next to the primer so it ignites the slower burning powder in front of it.
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Re: SSAA Magazine - ADI Powder & Trail Boss Update

Post by ash_hendo » 07 Jun 2023, 8:46 pm

deye243 wrote:
ash_hendo wrote:
rc42 wrote:I'm ........there's just no way around that.


This is interesting, are you still "duplexing"? I was thinking of doing this (uncompressed) with trailboss and AR2207 in 9mm or 357 mag...


You cannot do it without compressing it or it will just mix in the case major no no the object of the game is to put the fast burning powder in next to the primer so it ignites the slower burning powder in front of it.


I had planned to separate the two powders with a bit of toilet paper to prevent mixing.

I had read people use thicker cardboard, like a milk carton to keep powder in place and to prevent mixing.
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