Arrested for trying to sell a 'high powered' Browning .22

News and events in the media and political arena relating to firearms.

Re: Arrested for trying to sell a 'high powered' Browning .2

Post by bladeracer » 18 Apr 2022, 11:06 am

rc42 wrote:In my opinion, all laws really do is define crime and usually have a recommended punishment for those convicted of breaking them, in a way they define society and what is or is not acceptable.
Unfortunately, those that write and approve them are so biased and corrupt and trying to push personal agendas that laws are a mess that nobody fully understands, police and courts have an ongoing battle to understand and define them whilst politicians are constantly churning out more amendments and complexity to pile on top of the existing mess.

Those who try to be law abiding have to put in some effort to understand the laws that relate to their activities and try to follow them, especially with complex issues like firearms. In other areas, most people seem to just live their lives following the values they were brought up with usually that is enough to keep them within the law or just not infringing significantly enough to be prosecuted.

Criminals don't care about laws and they have minimal effect on their behaviour other than making them more careful about not being caught when breaking them, it is only the law abiding that are really affected by laws as we endeavour to follow them.


Fionn - If I've made any grammatical errors or used words contrary to their Oxford English Dictionary definitions please jump in and let me know.


Agreed. Law-abiding people can inadvertently become criminals because of our confusing laws. It does require some effort and diligence on our part to remain law-abiding, and it shouldn't work like that.

We only need one law that makes homicide illegal, we don't need another thousand laws listing every possible type of homicide and reiterating that that is also illegal. Our firearm laws could be a single line, "don't use firearms to threaten or injure other people or damage property". Any breach of this law is already adequately covered by the thousands of laws already in place regarding threatening or injuring people or damaging property. If we make the assumption that people applying for firearm licences are essentially law abiding, as the vast majority are, then we don't need 300 pages of laws about where and how we can use them and what sort of firearms we can and can't own. Instead, our laws start on the basis that we only want a firearm licence so we can be a nuisance to society, thus they want to regulate every conceivable act we might potentially want to do with them, regardless of whether it makes our society any safer.
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Re: Arrested for trying to sell a 'high powered' Browning .2

Post by Fionn » 18 Apr 2022, 10:05 pm

bladeracer wrote:Agreed. Law-abiding people can inadvertently become criminals because of our confusing laws. It does require some effort and diligence on our part to remain law-abiding, and it shouldn't work like that.


Ignorance or mistake about the existence or application of legislation creating an offence is no excuse in the eyes of the law in most cases.

Generally, ignorance or mistaken belief is taken into account during sentencing.

Seeing how you don’t seem to like how it works, how should it work?

bladeracer wrote:We only need one law that makes homicide illegal, we don't need another thousand laws listing every possible type of homicide and reiterating that that is also illegal.


The reason there are different types of homicide, is because homicide simple means to kill another person. It doesn’t differentiate between, intentional, reckless, accidental or negligent acts. It doesn’t even differentiate when the person intended no harm.

Going on what you have said they should all be treated the same.


bladeracer wrote:Our firearm laws could be a single line, "don't use firearms to threaten or injure other people or damage property". Any breach of this law is already adequately covered by the thousands of laws already in place regarding threatening or injuring people or damaging property.


The issue with this is, what is a firearm?, what does to threaten mean?, What does injure other people mean? And what does damage property mean?

These terms can and are defined in a numerous ways, much like the word “prevent” can be which we have already covered but still don't understand.

bladeracer wrote:If we make the assumption that people applying for firearm licences are essentially law abiding, as the vast majority are, then we don't need 300 pages of laws about where and how we can use them and what sort of firearms we can and can't own.


Clearly society thinks we do.

Laws have developed over hundreds/thousands of years, they are constantly evolving and refining as life becomes more complex. When cases are lost in court because lets say "firearm" hadn't be defined properly, the laws are updated to close this "loop hole" thus adding to the number of pages.

bladeracer wrote:Instead, our laws start on the basis that we only want a firearm licence so we can be a nuisance to society, thus they want to regulate every conceivable act we might potentially want to do with them, regardless of whether it makes our society any safer.


No, the laws start on the basis that owning a firearm is illegal. While not unexpected, its kind of astounding that you don't understand how laws work. I understand people think we have a right to own firearms like Americans but we don't.

The government permission the ownership of them, when permissioning something, that means the government takes on a duty of care when granting permission.

So naturally they are expected to exercise that duty with care or they can and have been held responsible for not doing so.
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Re: Arrested for trying to sell a 'high powered' Browning .2

Post by Fionn » 18 Apr 2022, 10:12 pm

Larry wrote:FFS back to the original topic. This forum every topic just wanders off into a complete wank fest


The discussion is related to the original topic as it relates to the definitions of terms , "high powered rifle" isn't legally defined, so its not incorrect to call a .22lr rifle "high powered", disingenuous maybe, but not incorrect.
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Re: Arrested for trying to sell a 'high powered' Browning .2

Post by womble » 19 Apr 2022, 3:43 am

It’s not a legal question, it’s a technical one.
22lr is a rimfire cartridge, limited to low pressures.
It’s not a high powered rifle on any scale of velocity or energy. Or by any firearm definition.
High powered is a reference to centerfire cartridges. High pressure cartridges.

If you want to look at it from a legal perspective, then it would fall into a category (a) firearm, therefore not high powered.
Otherwise we wouldn’t have categories to differentiate.

Or you could look at it from a worldly perspective as a training rifle for kids.

It would have been a high powered firearm in the 17th century :) if that helps your argument,
However, one could contest that this article was written in may of 2022.

It is what it is. Tabloid journalism intentionally biased for sensationalism. It’s not a factual account.
Op is merely pointing out the obvious bias of exaggeration.

On the laws as prevention debate i would agree with you Fionn. Historically lawless societies were far more rampant with violence and crime. Simply because there was no deterrent or threat of consequences.

Look at the history of the goldfields here. If the chinaman downstream from you found a nugget he would somehow go missing that night. And umm so what.

But when consequences for actions can cause great discomfort, then i reject the assertion that criminals are immune to discomfort.

Did the chinaman sleep well that night, knowing that the other miners would not harm or steal from him, purely out of the goodness of their hearts. :)
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Re: Arrested for trying to sell a 'high powered' Browning .2

Post by NTSOG » 19 Apr 2022, 7:00 am

Jeez, when I started this thread I only wanted to poke fun at the ignorant wankers working at the ABC, not start WW III amongst participants of this great site.

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Re: Arrested for trying to sell a 'high powered' Browning .2

Post by Fionn » 19 Apr 2022, 10:58 am

womble wrote:It’s not a legal question, it’s a technical one.
22lr is a rimfire cartridge, limited to low pressures.
It’s not a high powered rifle on any scale of velocity or energy. Or by any firearm definition.
High powered is a reference to centerfire cartridges. High pressure cartridges.


Well is kind of both, the reporter didn't give any qualifying information on why its high-powered, in comparison to centrefire rifles, I think most would agree its not high-powered, but in comparison to BB gun which as you know is also a firearm then you would not be incorrect in saying a 22lr is a high powered rifle.

womble wrote:If you want to look at it from a legal perspective, then it would fall into a category (a) firearm, therefore not high powered.
Otherwise we wouldn’t have categories to differentiate.


I don't believe any state/territory in Australia classifies firearm arms into categories based on being high or low powered. As I said before high-powered isn't legally defined, mainly because it serves no legal purpose to do so.



womble wrote:It would have been a high powered firearm in the 17th century :) if that helps your argument,
However, one could contest that this article was written in may of 2022.


It also would be high powered compared to a Daisy Ryder bb gun which is classed as a firearm that you can still buy today. ;)

womble wrote:It is what it is. Tabloid journalism intentionally biased for sensationalism. It’s not a factual account.


I agree, its worded for sensationalism or is disingenuous at best.

But its not factually incorrect when no qualifying statement has been made on the term "high-powered". So its not false advertising as someone here claimed (leaving aside that its not advertising) its not even a false claim, just sensationalism or disingenuous (possibly ignorance).

Its the way journalist are taught to write articles to leave meanings open.
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Re: Arrested for trying to sell a 'high powered' Browning .2

Post by Fionn » 19 Apr 2022, 11:10 am

NTSOG wrote:Jeez, when I started this thread I only wanted to poke fun at the ignorant wankers working at the ABC, not start WW III amongst participants of this great site.

Jim


What is interesting is that "high-powered rifle" is mentioned MSN link but not in the original ABC article on the ABC site.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-07/kalgoorlie-man-pleads-guilty-to-trying-to-sell-rifle-illegally/100974958

So it seems the people at the ABC aren't such ignorant wankers after all.
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Re: Arrested for trying to sell a 'high powered' Browning .2

Post by womble » 19 Apr 2022, 1:00 pm

By that reasoning a Toyota Yaris is a high powered car.
High powered is placing it at the high end of the scale in any spectrum .
High asserts relatively.

Relative to other firearms it's not high powered
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Re: Arrested for trying to sell a 'high powered' Browning .2

Post by Bugman » 19 Apr 2022, 1:08 pm

Fionn wrote:
NTSOG wrote:Jeez, when I started this thread I only wanted to poke fun at the ignorant wankers working at the ABC, not start WW III amongst participants of this great site.

Jim


What is interesting is that "high-powered rifle" is mentioned MSN link but not in the original ABC article on the ABC site.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-07/kalgoorlie-man-pleads-guilty-to-trying-to-sell-rifle-illegally/100974958

So it seems the people at the ABC aren't such ignorant wankers after all.


Have you ever worked fro or done work for the ABC? Well I have and in my opinion, there appears to be a LOT of ignorant wankers there.
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Re: Arrested for trying to sell a 'high powered' Browning .2

Post by Tomotron » 19 Apr 2022, 1:46 pm

Bugman wrote:
Fionn wrote:
NTSOG wrote:Jeez, when I started this thread I only wanted to poke fun at the ignorant wankers working at the ABC, not start WW III amongst participants of this great site.

Jim


What is interesting is that "high-powered rifle" is mentioned MSN link but not in the original ABC article on the ABC site.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-07/kalgoorlie-man-pleads-guilty-to-trying-to-sell-rifle-illegally/100974958

So it seems the people at the ABC aren't such ignorant wankers after all.


Have you ever worked fro or done work for the ABC? Well I have and in my opinion, there appears to be a LOT of ignorant wankers there.

The ABC changed it, here was the original version of the article which lines up with the msn one. I guess someone must've called out the ABC for their reporting on this story.
https://web.archive.org/web/20220407080 ... /100974958
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Re: Arrested for trying to sell a 'high powered' Browning .2

Post by Fionn » 19 Apr 2022, 2:58 pm

womble wrote:By that reasoning a Toyota Yaris is a high powered car.
High powered is placing it at the high end of the scale in any spectrum .
High asserts relatively.

Relative to other firearms it's not high powered


If you don't qualify the statement "a Toyota Yaris is a high powered car" then it is not an incorrect statement.
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Re: Arrested for trying to sell a 'high powered' Browning .2

Post by Fionn » 19 Apr 2022, 3:01 pm

Tomotron wrote:The ABC changed it, here was the original version of the article which lines up with the msn one. I guess someone must've called out the ABC for their reporting on this story.
https://web.archive.org/web/20220407080 ... /100974958


Maybe they read this forum and don't like being called ignorant wankers by Bugman :lol:
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Re: Arrested for trying to sell a 'high powered' Browning .2

Post by Bugman » 19 Apr 2022, 3:16 pm

Fionn wrote:
Tomotron wrote:The ABC changed it, here was the original version of the article which lines up with the msn one. I guess someone must've called out the ABC for their reporting on this story.
https://web.archive.org/web/20220407080 ... /100974958


Maybe they read this forum and don't like being called ignorant wankers by Bugman :lol:


The truth always hurts. And the ABC never let the truth get in the way of a good story.
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Re: Arrested for trying to sell a 'high powered' Browning .2

Post by jwai86 » 19 Apr 2022, 3:52 pm

Bugman wrote:The truth always hurts. And the ABC never let the truth get in the way of a good story.

You say that like other news channels in Australia aren't also guilty of doing the same thing when it suits them. Or are you just upset that the ABC doesn't share your views or biases?
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Re: Arrested for trying to sell a 'high powered' Browning .2

Post by Bugman » 19 Apr 2022, 4:12 pm

jwai86 wrote:
Bugman wrote:The truth always hurts. And the ABC never let the truth get in the way of a good story.

You say that like other news channels in Australia aren't also guilty of doing the same thing when it suits them. Or are you just upset that the ABC doesn't share your views or biases?


Your pissing on the wrong tree there, lad. All media are guilty of twisting and editing the truth. Blind Freddie could see that.
As I said, having worked for and worked with the ABC, I found that a great deal of me fellow co-workers were very much leaning left but more than happy to pick up their pay regularly. I am talking from my own experiences, not yours.
And I am not upset if they agree with me or not so I don't really know where you are coming from with that.....or do you work for the ABC? :wtf:
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Re: Arrested for trying to sell a 'high powered' Browning .2

Post by womble » 19 Apr 2022, 4:20 pm

The other channels are commercial enterprises. Only accountable to themselves.
The abc is public. We have the right to call them out because we own it. They get audited for bias. And their charter dictates that they are fair, accurate and impartial.

Not always the case obviously, but they are accountable to the public.
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Re: Arrested for trying to sell a 'high powered' Browning .2

Post by Bugman » 19 Apr 2022, 4:47 pm

Me thinks this original post has very much lost its way and has been hijacked well and truly. I sincerely hope the mods ditch it. :?
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Re: Arrested for trying to sell a 'high powered' Browning .2

Post by jwai86 » 19 Apr 2022, 4:51 pm

Bugman wrote:And I am not upset if they agree with me or not so I don't really know where you are coming from with that.....or do you work for the ABC? :wtf:

I work for a Commonwealth government agency, but not the ABC ;)
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Re: Arrested for trying to sell a 'high powered' Browning .2

Post by bladeracer » 19 Apr 2022, 5:09 pm

Bugman wrote:Me thinks this original post has very much lost its way and has been hijacked well and truly. I sincerely hope the mods ditch it. :?


It seems to have come back onto the topic actually, discussing media bias, which is what the original post was about.
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Re: Arrested for trying to sell a 'high powered' Browning .2

Post by Bugman » 19 Apr 2022, 5:19 pm

bladeracer wrote:
Bugman wrote:Me thinks this original post has very much lost its way and has been hijacked well and truly. I sincerely hope the mods ditch it. :?


It seems to have come back onto the topic actually, discussing media bias, which is what the original post was about.



Well...it took it's f#&king time getting there. ;)
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Re: Arrested for trying to sell a 'high powered' Browning .2

Post by Bugman » 19 Apr 2022, 5:20 pm

jwai86 wrote:
Bugman wrote:And I am not upset if they agree with me or not so I don't really know where you are coming from with that.....or do you work for the ABC? :wtf:

I work for a Commonwealth government agency, but not the ABC ;)


Oh so glad it aint the ABC. :D
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Re: Arrested for trying to sell a 'high powered' Browning .2

Post by cz515 » 19 Apr 2022, 7:43 pm

womble wrote:By that reasoning a Toyota Yaris is a high powered car.
High powered is placing it at the high end of the scale in any spectrum .
High asserts relatively.

Relative to other firearms it's not high powered


No as an actual fact in Victoria atleast and many other states high powered is defined, especially in relation to what vehicles P plate people can drive.

Now going back to the Toyota Yaris it does actually come in a 200kw version. And that is more powerful then many of Ford/Holden v8 vehicles (till the early 2000s)
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Re: Arrested for trying to sell a 'high powered' Browning .2

Post by cz515 » 19 Apr 2022, 7:47 pm

Bugman wrote:Me thinks this original post has very much lost its way and has been hijacked well and truly. I sincerely hope the mods ditch it. :?

And why are some so gungho about getting mods to close every thread. If people don't like the conversation or cannot add to it in any meaningful manner then just move on there are plenty of other threads about guns etc.

As repeated closing of threads..... is IMHO censorship. Quite ironic some people complain about censorship in the media and then they themselves work extra hard to report posts to get threads shut down left right and centre
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Re: Arrested for trying to sell a 'high powered' Browning .2

Post by Bugman » 20 Apr 2022, 7:03 am

cz515 wrote:
Bugman wrote:Me thinks this original post has very much lost its way and has been hijacked well and truly. I sincerely hope the mods ditch it. :?

And why are some so gungho about getting mods to close every thread. If people don't like the conversation or cannot add to it in any meaningful manner then just move on there are plenty of other threads about guns etc.

As repeated closing of threads..... is IMHO censorship. Quite ironic some people complain about censorship in the media and then they themselves work extra hard to report posts to get threads shut down left right and centre


Probably because of the diatribe that some members post become mundane, inane and vindictive. Not interested in what is happening in the media only this forum. As has been said before, what is said on this forum stays on this forum, BUT there those in the Gov and general public who see this type of banter and may well eventually use it to add more restrictions to our interests. By the way just who are the Gung Ho members who want the mods to close every thread? Can you name some?
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Re: Arrested for trying to sell a 'high powered' Browning .2

Post by bladeracer » 20 Apr 2022, 10:23 am

Bugman wrote:Probably because of the diatribe that some members post become mundane, inane and vindictive. Not interested in what is happening in the media only this forum. As has been said before, what is said on this forum stays on this forum, BUT there those in the Gov and general public who see this type of banter and may well eventually use it to add more restrictions to our interests. By the way just who are the Gung Ho members who want the mods to close every thread? Can you name some?


If you're not interested in the media why are you reading the media forum? This forum is specifically for people to post and discuss what happens in the media...
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Re: Arrested for trying to sell a 'high powered' Browning .2

Post by Bugman » 20 Apr 2022, 12:08 pm

bladeracer wrote:
Bugman wrote:Probably because of the diatribe that some members post become mundane, inane and vindictive. Not interested in what is happening in the media only this forum. As has been said before, what is said on this forum stays on this forum, BUT there those in the Gov and general public who see this type of banter and may well eventually use it to add more restrictions to our interests. By the way just who are the Gung Ho members who want the mods to close every thread? Can you name some?


If you're not interested in the media why are you reading the media forum? This forum is specifically for people to post and discuss what happens in the media...


THIS forum contains sections of various elements of firearm discussion, etc etc. THIS forum is not specifically designed for people to post and discuss what happens in the media. I think you have totally confused THIS current posting with that of the actual FORUM itself. I am interested in a lot of things in the media itself so please don't make such innuendos about me, you end up making yourself very shallow and from someone who appears to have had a long association with the FORUM, you are coming across, at times very inaccurate. Shame really.
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Re: Arrested for trying to sell a 'high powered' Browning .2

Post by bladeracer » 20 Apr 2022, 12:21 pm

Bugman wrote:THIS forum contains sections of various elements of firearm discussion, etc etc. THIS forum is not specifically designed for people to post and discuss what happens in the media. I think you have totally confused THIS current posting with that of the actual FORUM itself. I am interested in a lot of things in the media itself so please don't make such innuendos about me, you end up making yourself very shallow and from someone who appears to have had a long association with the FORUM, you are coming across, at times very inaccurate. Shame really.


This thread is in the "Firearm Related Media and Politics" forum of Enoughgun. If you don't have any interest in the media don't read the Media forum.

I have no idea what your rant relates to. My association with this forum only goes back to 2016 I think. I'm not making any assumptions about you, you stated yourself "Not interested in what is happening in the media only this forum." which I can only interpret as you having no interest in the media...
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Re: Arrested for trying to sell a 'high powered' Browning .2

Post by jwai86 » 20 Apr 2022, 12:28 pm

Bugman wrote:Oh so glad it aint the ABC. :D

On the other hand, you might also not like the agency I work for, but I'll stay quiet about who they are ;)
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Re: Arrested for trying to sell a 'high powered' Browning .2

Post by cz515 » 20 Apr 2022, 3:35 pm

That's my point. Be it firearms or cars, or golf related forums. All have the same thing.

A group of people after they learn the basics have not huge interest in the original topic. They are likely a treasure trove of knowledge. But they like social banter. Wren I met with my friends, we talk about cricket, world politics, covid, local politics maybe in the middle we might talk about guns, how was their hunting trip or visit to little river, what rifle they planning to buy next. But in 3 hours that might be 15 minutes. Doesn't mean we don't like guns. No but there is just more to talk about.

Now same there are people who think only thing to talk about should be guns, I see they usually don't come very often cuz they have nothing to talk about. Don't be like them. Enjoy life.
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Re: Arrested for trying to sell a 'high powered' Browning .2

Post by bladeracer » 20 Apr 2022, 6:33 pm

cz515 wrote:That's my point. Be it firearms or cars, or golf related forums. All have the same thing.

A group of people after they learn the basics have not huge interest in the original topic. They are likely a treasure trove of knowledge. But they like social banter. Wren I met with my friends, we talk about cricket, world politics, covid, local politics maybe in the middle we might talk about guns, how was their hunting trip or visit to little river, what rifle they planning to buy next. But in 3 hours that might be 15 minutes. Doesn't mean we don't like guns. No but there is just more to talk about.

Now same there are people who think only thing to talk about should be guns, I see they usually don't come very often cuz they have nothing to talk about. Don't be like them. Enjoy life.


Much as with bikes, I have little tolerance for the garbage that so often gets spewed in social chat, I prefer to avoid it entirely :-)
I generally try to stay within the technical topics of firearms.
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