20,000 Pigs

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20,000 Pigs

Post by Madang185 » 08 Aug 2022, 7:12 pm

Of recent date, it was claimed in the media that 20,000 feral pigs had been eliminated in southern NSW by aerial shooting.

Whilst I am all for assisting the farmers to rid the country of these feral pests the cost of this exercise seems to be strangely missing.

One media outlet claimed that one pig every fifteen minutes was destroyed, unless my math's are wrong this equates to 5000 flying hours.

After all, helicopters are not the cheapest form of aerial transport.

Surely someone has their wires crossed or are the media simply wrong -again!

Does anyone know the correct figures?
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Re: 20,000 Pigs

Post by on_one_wheel » 08 Aug 2022, 7:45 pm

Did they mention how many years that was over?

Considering they'd only fly daylight hours, it would be impossible to do within a single year given the average of one pig every 15 minutes in 5000 flying hours.
Perhaps it was several Helicopters?
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Re: 20,000 Pigs

Post by Baronvonrort » 08 Aug 2022, 8:55 pm

Madang185 wrote:Of recent date, it was claimed in the media that 20,000 feral pigs had been eliminated in southern NSW by aerial shooting.

Whilst I am all for assisting the farmers to rid the country of these feral pests the cost of this exercise seems to be strangely missing.

One media outlet claimed that one pig every fifteen minutes was destroyed, unless my math's are wrong this equates to 5000 flying hours.

After all, helicopters are not the cheapest form of aerial transport.

Surely someone has their wires crossed or are the media simply wrong -again!



The fake news are wrong again.

Around 200 per hour can be taken when they're thick on the ground i think peak record is around 240 an hour.

Of course when Governments do this thing it's far more expensive than it needs to be. The regulations say helicopters must be turbine powered so no cheap piston engined R22 or R44s. Then you have a spotter who counts shots and kills so minimum 3 in aircraft with one person doing SFA. Every animal has to be double tapped with .308 so ammo costs are nearly double. They generally use Cat D L1A1 yet those who own these rifles can only use L1A1 for aerial culling so having a spare rifle in case of malfunction or it just gets hot means the Pros have 2 Cat Ds they can pnly use for this job and if they do contract work with ground shooting they have to buy another Cat D .308 which isn't used by military.so they end up with 3 Cat D in .308.

If you have private non government contractors doing it then a cheap to run R22 is ideal as pilot sits beside shooter so he can line up chopper with shooters sights as they chase animals ( they sit behind pilot with turbine choppers) and if they have a go pro they can go over footage count shots vs kills etc when they get back to base. When animal drops and doesn't get up or move from first shot they don't need to double tap them to follow government rules to appease those who hate guns which also saves on ammo. It can be done with 1/3 of the running costs by using R22 and 2/3 of labor cost and just over half the ammo costs if you don't have to follow government regulations.

Everything the government does costs far more than it needs to those in NSW just have to look at cost of new flagpole on harbour bridge for an example.
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Re: 20,000 Pigs

Post by No1Mk3 » 08 Aug 2022, 9:11 pm

8 choppers would put in 625 flying hours each to get 20000 pigs at 4 per hour. A cheapie like an R22 could operate as little as $185 per hour, but regardless of numbers used total hours remain the same for costing so $925000 or $46.25 per porker. I very much doubt they used something as cheap as a Robinson R22 though.
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Re: 20,000 Pigs

Post by deye243 » 08 Aug 2022, 9:16 pm

Oh yes if you're going to use a gun you got to double tap or smack them in the head.
But the green anti gun like running around with 1080 or another poisons taking up to10 hours for the poor buggers to die in agony bunch of hypocrite mongrels
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Re: 20,000 Pigs

Post by Baronvonrort » 08 Aug 2022, 9:16 pm

No1Mk3 wrote:8 choppers would put in 625 flying hours each to get 20000 pigs at 4 per hour. A cheapie like an R22 could operate as little as $185 per hour, but regardless of numbers used total hours remain the same for costing so $925000 or $46.25 per porker. I very much doubt they used something as cheap as a Robinson R22 though.


Government regulations for government run aerial culling say chopper must be turbine powered which automatically rules out R22 and R44 as they're piston engine choppers.

They would range between 50-200 per hour with aerial culling.
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Re: 20,000 Pigs

Post by Billo » 08 Aug 2022, 9:19 pm

A station I use to hunt culled just under 1000 pigs in 2 days, single shooter using an SLR and a few spare mags, no idea on the flight time but $20k bill. largest boars scaled just under 400lbs. Nth western NSW. Pig numbers out that way have exploded at the moment with 2 good seasons of rain and crops. :thumbsup:
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Re: 20,000 Pigs

Post by animalpest » 08 Aug 2022, 9:31 pm

Having shot plenty out of choppers, a R44 is the minimum I would contract with. A R22 lacks the power to pull up when there is a downdraught or wind change.

Turbines are great as there is no dead man's zone compared to piston powered. Picture being 30ft above the ground and wind changes or the engine hiccups.

If you are only smacking 4 per hour it not worth it. Not for pigs, different if bigger species. Even then we would be doing 1-2 per minute.
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Re: 20,000 Pigs

Post by Blr243 » 08 Aug 2022, 9:52 pm

Words MEDIA TRUTH ACCURCY not good in one sentence
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Re: 20,000 Pigs

Post by JimTom » 09 Aug 2022, 6:31 am

No1Mk3 wrote:8 choppers would put in 625 flying hours each to get 20000 pigs at 4 per hour. A cheapie like an R22 could operate as little as $185 per hour, but regardless of numbers used total hours remain the same for costing so $925000 or $46.25 per porker. I very much doubt they used something as cheap as a Robinson R22 though.



Not sure exactly what the direct operating costs are for the R22 mate, perhaps that is what you are referring to, however I am certain you couldn’t hire one for $185 / hr.
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Re: 20,000 Pigs

Post by JimTom » 10 Aug 2022, 8:30 am

animalpest wrote:Having shot plenty out of choppers, a R44 is the minimum I would contract with. A R22 lacks the power to pull up when there is a downdraught or wind change.

Turbines are great as there is no dead man's zone compared to piston powered. Picture being 30ft above the ground and wind changes or the engine hiccups.

If you are only smacking 4 per hour it not worth it. Not for pigs, different if bigger species. Even then we would be doing 1-2 per minute.



All helicopters have a deadman’s curve regardless of the type of engine. It is about having a sufficient combination of height and airspeed to be able to autorotate safely. At 30’ above the ground if you lose an engine in the hover or low airspeed you will be in a spot of bother. Not all turbines have buckets of power either, take the jet ranger for example. Limited tail rotor authority, limited power. A Squirrel on the other hand is quite capable in comparison.
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Re: 20,000 Pigs

Post by on_one_wheel » 10 Aug 2022, 8:32 am

When I grow up I want to be a helicopter.
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Re: 20,000 Pigs

Post by JimTom » 10 Aug 2022, 12:18 pm

They are nothing but a thousand small parts spinning in close formation around an oil leak, just waiting for metal fatigue to set in.
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Re: 20,000 Pigs

Post by animalpest » 10 Aug 2022, 9:01 pm

JimTom wrote:
animalpest wrote:Having shot plenty out of choppers, a R44 is the minimum I would contract with. A R22 lacks the power to pull up when there is a downdraught or wind change.

Turbines are great as there is no dead man's zone compared to piston powered. Picture being 30ft above the ground and wind changes or the engine hiccups.

If you are only smacking 4 per hour it not worth it. Not for pigs, different if bigger species. Even then we would be doing 1-2 per minute.



All helicopters have a deadman’s curve regardless of the type of engine. It is about having a sufficient combination of height and airspeed to be able to autorotate safely. At 30’ above the ground if you lose an engine in the hover or low airspeed you will be in a spot of bother. Not all turbines have buckets of power either, take the jet ranger for example. Limited tail rotor authority, limited power. A Squirrel on the other hand is quite capable in comparison.


True, but unfortunately when aerial shooting your at low speed and low level.

That is why you won't get a shooting job using a R22. Simply not enough oomph, unless doing it for a farmer
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Re: 20,000 Pigs

Post by animalpest » 10 Aug 2022, 9:04 pm

JimTom wrote:
animalpest wrote:Having shot plenty out of choppers, a R44 is the minimum I would contract with. A R22 lacks the power to pull up when there is a downdraught or wind change.

Turbines are great as there is no dead man's zone compared to piston powered. Picture being 30ft above the ground and wind changes or the engine hiccups.

If you are only smacking 4 per hour it not worth it. Not for pigs, different if bigger species. Even then we would be doing 1-2 per minute.



All helicopters have a deadman’s curve regardless of the type of engine. It is about having a sufficient combination of height and airspeed to be able to autorotate safely. At 30’ above the ground if you lose an engine in the hover or low airspeed you will be in a spot of bother. Not all turbines have buckets of power either, take the jet ranger for example. Limited tail rotor authority, limited power. A Squirrel on the other hand is quite capable in comparison.


True, but unfortunately when aerial shooting your at low speed and low level.

That is why you won't get a shooting job using a R22. Simply not enough oomph, unless doing it for a farmer.

Generally the cost for shooting is about $1000 per hour - chopper hire, fuel (50 Lts per hr with a R44), shooter and ammo. Can be more depending
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Re: 20,000 Pigs

Post by JimTom » 11 Aug 2022, 7:15 am

Yep totally agree that the 44 is more suited to aerial shooting.
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Re: 20,000 Pigs

Post by Blr243 » 11 Aug 2022, 5:17 pm

I love choppers. Used them to get dropped in remote spot in new seal and. I’m kn ow two blokes that went down in choppers One told me about the incident he was donkey shooting in west oz. the other bloke Also in west oz did not survive
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Re: 20,000 Pigs

Post by animalpest » 11 Aug 2022, 7:56 pm

Yep Blr, that was chopper versus spotter plane. Did not end well. My former department. Thankfully I only did the firearms training, not responsible for the helicopter component.
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Re: 20,000 Pigs

Post by Blr243 » 11 Aug 2022, 8:54 pm

The bloke that survived was telling me about the accident 34 years ago when we were sitting down having drinks New Years I the kimberlies. It may have been on Kimberley downs I can’t remember the name of the station. and I’m not sure how any years before that his accident was. I don’t remember any mention of a spotter plane. Probably a separate incident
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Re: 20,000 Pigs

Post by on_one_wheel » 11 Aug 2022, 10:02 pm

I'm surprised there's not more chopper accidents.
I've witnessed some stupid unnecessary high risk s**t involving mustering with Helicopters, mostly in the top end, one of the closest calls I saw was a helicopter catch a fence with one of its skids literally 30 metres away from stockmen on horseback, for some reason he decided to dive in to push the cattle hard despite the fact there was no need... pure stupidity.

Most of the chopper pilots that I've spent enough time with to down a beer or two came across as having heaps to prove, it's probably why they fly like that.

I remember one fella in SA offering my partner of the time and myself a scenic flight over the Flinders on his day off, after drinking with him for a for an hour or two I'd already sussed him out as a total w anker so it took me all of 2 seconds to say no. I just had a bad feeling he'd be out to show off especially given he'd spent the evening sizing himself up as some kind of tough guy :lol:

Funny thing is, very few aeroplane pilots I'd met were like that, only 1 comes to mind, a station overseer who liked to do aerobatic displays in the bosses plane with all the seats filled, here's a big shout out to Curly from Bunda Station... you idiot
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Re: 20,000 Pigs

Post by JimTom » 12 Aug 2022, 6:52 am

I too have witnessed a lot of bravado and risky behaviour with younger pilots, particularly in the mustering industry. Although it may be more prevalent in the Heli mustering industry, I don’t think it is isolated to rotary wing, as I see plenty of risky behaviour with fixed wing pilots also. In saying that, I do acknowledge that the vast majority of mustering pilots are ringers who are sick of being on a horse and will more than likely only ever fly R22 in the bush whereas the fixed wing blokes generally aspire to be white shirt wearing airline pilots. Not all chopper pilots fall into to aforementioned category though.
I do applaud your decision not to fly with that fella offering you a scenic flight though.
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Re: 20,000 Pigs

Post by animalpest » 12 Aug 2022, 10:23 am

Blr243 wrote:The bloke that survived was telling me about the accident 34 years ago when we were sitting down having drinks New Years I the kimberlies. It may have been on Kimberley downs I can’t remember the name of the station. and I’m not sure how any years before that his accident was. I don’t remember any mention of a spotter plane. Probably a separate incident


Thats the only incident when aerial shooting in the Kimberley killed someone. We seriously reviewed our operating procedures after that and the coronial enquiry.

If it wasn't that then it was a station doing their own in a R22 and didn't report it as doing aerial shooting. Very few have CASA approval to carry and discharge a firearms.
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Re: 20,000 Pigs

Post by Blr243 » 12 Aug 2022, 7:14 pm

Sounds like jimmy must have been doin a private casual shoot. Either way , You gotta be scared I think when the bird starts falling to earth fast
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Re: 20,000 Pigs

Post by Blr243 » 12 Aug 2022, 7:17 pm

On the farm I visit in northern nsw there’s certain bugs that are only vulnerable to insecticides from aerial crop dusting when it’s done at night because daytime the bugs are underground.. so the crop dusters are low flying at night ( and under some powerlines just to make it more interesting)
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Re: 20,000 Pigs

Post by JimTom » 12 Aug 2022, 8:06 pm

Yep those blokes who fly night Ag have pills the size of rocks. Need to be a handy hands and feet man to survive doing that I’d say.
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