Has anyone read "A Presentation on the Port Arthur Incident"

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Has anyone read "A Presentation on the Port Arthur Incident"

Post by big matt » 18 Apr 2023, 2:30 pm

I have a 288 page article on "A Presentation on the Port Arthur Incident" by Noel McDonald and has anyone read it or seen it and what's your thoughts on the paper. Interested to hear about it.
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Re: Has anyone read "A Presentation on the Port Arthur Incid

Post by Lazarus » 19 Apr 2023, 10:21 am

I suspect old Noel might have a few roos loose in the top paddock, like his mate Joe Vialls.
The fact that nobody would publish his "work", forcing him to self publish, is not a sign of government interference as some have suggested simply that it's an unsupported rant.

I'd hoped we'd seen the last "The Gummint done it" type silliness on this subject.

What we had was a person of extremely low intelligence, with a whole circus of mental and personality disorders, who should have been knocked on the head at birth, who for his own twisted little reasons, went "postal".
End of story.

Boringly normal, there was no big guvvy conspiracy to take our guns, just the usual knee-jerk overreaction.

For those who love a good conspiracy, I would ask; If it was all a plot to "disarm" the population, why didn't Little Johnny Howler take all our guns?
Why just the semi-autos?

We all hate the idea of collective punishment for someone else's actions, but just because something we don't like has happened, doesn't mean there's a sinister plot behind it.

Occam's Razor should always be the first thing applied when trying to decipher something.

William of Ockam's "entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity", simply means that when presented with competing hypotheses about the same prediction, one should prefer the one that requires fewest assumptions.
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Re: Has anyone read "A Presentation on the Port Arthur Incid

Post by bladeracer » 19 Apr 2023, 1:18 pm

What should be investigated is not some cracked government conspiracy but the failings of the Police to work within the laws we already had in place that would have prevented him having "legal" access to firearms. He would very likely have still gotten them illegally of course, but that will always be the case, irrelevant of laws. Like far too many of these tragedies, the causes are the authorities failing to do the jobs they're paid to do.

Even more, if he'd been properly cared for by his family and community as a child he may well have never developed the mentality that would precipitate such actions.
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Re: Has anyone read "A Presentation on the Port Arthur Incid

Post by Lazarus » 19 Apr 2023, 1:58 pm

bladeracer wrote:What should be investigated is not some cracked government conspiracy but the failings of the Police to work within the laws we already had in place that would have prevented him having "legal" access to firearms. He would very likely have still gotten them illegally of course, but that will always be the case, irrelevant of laws. Like far too many of these tragedies, the causes are the authorities failing to do the jobs they're paid to do.

Even more, if he'd been properly cared for by his family and community as a child he may well have never developed the mentality that would precipitate such actions.


I totally agree Blade, with one exception.

Bryant, may he be sewn up in the belly of a dead camel, was a wrongun from birth.
True, his upbringing probably had a negative influence, but he was a tragedy waiting to happen.

Some interesting reading on the phenomenon of conspiracy theory belief and the psychology of those who willingly go down that Alice in Wonderland rabbit hole

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6282974/

Edit
An interesting(to me at least) look at the relationship between god bothery and conspiracy belief

https://www.abc.net.au/religion/why-are ... s/13003550
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Re: Has anyone read "A Presentation on the Port Arthur Incid

Post by bladeracer » 19 Apr 2023, 4:20 pm

I agree that he was a wrong-un, but with proper support from family and community he should've been recognised as such long before he was able to commit mass murder. He may well have still managed to do so, but he should've been "on the radar" from childhood with the community and the authorities monitoring his situation. These people don't just "break" one day, they are broken for years or decades beforehand, but ignored, or tolerated as "different", or simply avoided as "wrong-uns", with nothing done to assist or guide them. I don't think it requires a lot of outside "support" to dissuade many of these perpetrators from believing committing mass tragedy will make them feel any better about themselves. Similarly the Qld killers kept skipping from one small community to the next small community, staying ahead of the legal consequences of what they were doing. Clearly the education department, and the Police, knew they were wrong-uns as well, for years, but did nothing about it.


Lazarus wrote:I totally agree Blade, with one exception.

Bryant, may he be sewn up in the belly of a dead camel, was a wrongun from birth.
True, his upbringing probably had a negative influence, but he was a tragedy waiting to happen.

Some interesting reading on the phenomenon of conspiracy theory belief and the psychology of those who willingly go down that Alice in Wonderland rabbit hole

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6282974/

Edit
An interesting(to me at least) look at the relationship between god bothery and conspiracy belief

https://www.abc.net.au/religion/why-are ... s/13003550
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Re: Has anyone read "A Presentation on the Port Arthur Incid

Post by Lazarus » 19 Apr 2023, 4:54 pm

In an ideal world perhaps, people like him wouldn't fall through the cracks, but short of pre-emptively locking people away, just in case, there's just no funding in the mental health space to coddle every violent psychopath.

Absolutely agree that the police, and the system are to blame for the Qld shooting to which you refer.
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Re: Has anyone read "A Presentation on the Port Arthur Incid

Post by Wm.Traynor » 19 Apr 2023, 7:05 pm

bladeracer wrote: Like far too many of these tragedies, the causes are the authorities failing to do the jobs they're paid to do.


Agree wholeheartedly.
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Re: Has anyone read "A Presentation on the Port Arthur Incid

Post by womble » 19 Apr 2023, 7:09 pm

bladeracer wrote:What should be investigated is not some cracked government conspiracy but the failings of the Police to work within the laws we already had in place that would have prevented him having "legal" access to firearms. He would very likely have still gotten them illegally of course, but that will always be the case, irrelevant of laws. Like far too many of these tragedies, the causes are the authorities failing to do the jobs they're paid to do.

Even more, if he'd been properly cared for by his family and community as a child he may well have never developed the mentality that would precipitate such actions.


He didn’t have a firearms licence.
The lgs bears that responsibility. Should not have sold him firearms.
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Re: Has anyone read "A Presentation on the Port Arthur Incid

Post by womble » 19 Apr 2023, 7:22 pm

bladeracer wrote:I agree that he was a wrong-un, but with proper support from family and community he should've been recognised as such long before he was able to commit mass murder. He may well have still managed to do so, but he should've been "on the radar" from childhood with the community and the authorities monitoring his situation. These people don't just "break" one day, they are broken for years or decades beforehand, but ignored, or tolerated as "different", or simply avoided as "wrong-uns", with nothing done to assist or guide them. I don't think it requires a lot of outside "support" to dissuade many of these perpetrators from believing committing mass tragedy will make them feel any better about themselves. Similarly the Qld killers kept skipping from one small community to the next small community, staying ahead of the legal consequences of what they were doing. Clearly the education department, and the Police, knew they were wrong-uns as well, for years, but did nothing about it.


He was recognised as such from early childhood. He was treated by psychiatrists and given medication. I believe he got a pension or his family got carers allowance or something like that.
He couldn’t manage in the public school system.
He was recognised as the weird kid who nobody wanted a bar of.
There isn’t a diagnosis that fits him and his parents tried everything.
Unfortunately he came into a lot of money and with it the freedom to estrange himself from any genuine support and just be himself.
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Re: Has anyone read "A Presentation on the Port Arthur Incid

Post by Lazarus » 19 Apr 2023, 7:43 pm

The only good news in the whole saga is that he's locked away forever, 160kg and doing sexual favours for chocolate and 2 min noodles.

https://www.news.com.au/national/crime/ ... fef6aebe87
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Re: Has anyone read "A Presentation on the Port Arthur Incid

Post by womble » 19 Apr 2023, 7:45 pm

Lazarus wrote:
bladeracer wrote:What should be investigated is not some cracked government conspiracy but the failings of the Police to work within the laws we already had in place that would have prevented him having "legal" access to firearms. He would very likely have still gotten them illegally of course, but that will always be the case, irrelevant of laws. Like far too many of these tragedies, the causes are the authorities failing to do the jobs they're paid to do.

Even more, if he'd been properly cared for by his family and community as a child he may well have never developed the mentality that would precipitate such actions.


I totally agree Blade, with one exception.

Bryant, may he be sewn up in the belly of a dead camel, was a wrongun from birth.
True, his upbringing probably had a negative influence, but he was a tragedy waiting to happen.

Some interesting reading on the phenomenon of conspiracy theory belief and the psychology of those who willingly go down that Alice in Wonderland rabbit hole

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6282974/

Edit
An interesting(to me at least) look at the relationship between god bothery and conspiracy belief

https://www.abc.net.au/religion/why-are ... s/13003550


Look deeper. Where do these conspiracy theories being pushed through Christian conservative and far right forums, facebook groups, social media etc originate.
They don’t trace back to in country servers.
The theories are designed to create confusion, division, distrust in the government.
The targets are the most easily led, easily manipulated demographics of the society.
The ultimate goal is no need for a full scale invasion. The people will welcome you as liberators.
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Re: Has anyone read "A Presentation on the Port Arthur Incid

Post by womble » 19 Apr 2023, 7:58 pm

Yes Noel’s work is a crock. You can access it through university libraries if of interest. Because we shouldn’t ban or censor it.
Even if no one would publish it for their own conscience.
It is a rabbit hole you could be dragged down into and a particularly deep one, because if you accept it as real and true then you’re extremely susceptible to believing just about anything else they’ve got down there.
Fair warning, some people never come back up and their lives are ruined.
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Re: Has anyone read "A Presentation on the Port Arthur Incid

Post by bladeracer » 19 Apr 2023, 8:03 pm

womble wrote:
bladeracer wrote:What should be investigated is not some cracked government conspiracy but the failings of the Police to work within the laws we already had in place that would have prevented him having "legal" access to firearms. He would very likely have still gotten them illegally of course, but that will always be the case, irrelevant of laws. Like far too many of these tragedies, the causes are the authorities failing to do the jobs they're paid to do.

Even more, if he'd been properly cared for by his family and community as a child he may well have never developed the mentality that would precipitate such actions.


He didn’t have a firearms licence.
The lgs bears that responsibility. Should not have sold him firearms.


As far as I'm aware he did have a licence, but he certainly should not have been given one. Or perhaps he didn't need one back then in Tas?
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Re: Has anyone read "A Presentation on the Port Arthur Incid

Post by womble » 19 Apr 2023, 8:15 pm

They didn’t take all our guns because on the ground there was a fierce push back.
Costello the leader of the nationals ( who’s now the ceo of channel 9 by the way and the brother to the founder of Australia’s anti gun lobby ) has been know to later boast we could’ve taken them all.
Newscorp was founded by Murdock in 1980 and fully supported the conservatives in Howard’s liberal party.
It dominated the media and didn’t cover the people’s resistance. Public owned media did to a small degree.
But newscorp only covered the anti gun rallies at the time. Which were also huge.
In reality the country was divided but that’s not the perception the viewers were given. It’s still pushed as such today, that Australians all agreed.
We didn’t. The government had chosen to let fear dictate its mandates. Fear of it’s own constituents. Howard wore a vest.
Many don’t agree with that. Should we let those who inflict terror apon us have power over how we live our lives.
A more mature country with a longer history may have reacted differently.
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Re: Has anyone read "A Presentation on the Port Arthur Incid

Post by womble » 19 Apr 2023, 8:32 pm

bladeracer wrote:
womble wrote:
bladeracer wrote:What should be investigated is not some cracked government conspiracy but the failings of the Police to work within the laws we already had in place that would have prevented him having "legal" access to firearms. He would very likely have still gotten them illegally of course, but that will always be the case, irrelevant of laws. Like far too many of these tragedies, the causes are the authorities failing to do the jobs they're paid to do.

Even more, if he'd been properly cared for by his family and community as a child he may well have never developed the mentality that would precipitate such actions.


He didn’t have a firearms licence.
The lgs bears that responsibility. Should not have sold him firearms.


As far as I'm aware he did have a licence, but he certainly should not have been given one. Or perhaps he didn't need one back then in Tas?


You needed a license to purchase from a gun dealer. I believe the dealer knew Martin was unlicensed and he didn’t ask to see it. Martin liked the gun shop and visited often but never had much money.
Until he did and then the dealer couldn’t resist the sale. Over charged him and ripped him of fierce.
You could however by guns from the classifieds, private sales. No need to exchange details. He got one of his guns by that means.
But the ar15 came from the shop and from memory he paid about 5 grand for this very special gun the dealer had. Came with its own special scope.
One of the guns he got from the newspaper was handed in previously during an amnesty at boronia police station in Victoria. That’s actually true.
Licences weren’t really policed in Tasmania or Qld at the time. But they were in some other states. Significant in the nfa that all civil firearm ownership is now under police control and discretion.

In the 80s you could by a gun in the mail from qld through the trading post and have it sent to you in any other state. But by the early 90,s you’d need to take the ferry to Tassy, no customs of course. Just take a big sports bag. You could actually buy a bazooka in Tasmania at the time. :D
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Re: Has anyone read "A Presentation on the Port Arthur Incid

Post by Lazarus » 19 Apr 2023, 8:44 pm

Ah Womble, sorry to put a pin in your balloon, but Costello, a Liberal, was treasurer.
Tim Fischer was Nationals leader, and I believe he's dirt napping.

As to the "country being divided on the issue", in 1996 gun ownership was 6.52%, meaning that for 93.48% of the population it was not something of vital interest.

As to the rabbit hole of conspiracies, you can't be "dragged" into a complete suspension of logic and reason, you have to be able to blindly believe the patently unbelievable, like religion, hence the strong correlation between the two.

""Look deeper. Where do these conspiracy theories being pushed through Christian conservative and far right forums, facebook groups, social media etc originate.
They don’t trace back to in country servers.
The theories are designed to create confusion, division, distrust in the government.
The targets are the most easily led, easily manipulated demographics of the society.
The ultimate goal is no need for a full scale invasion. The people will welcome you as liberators.""

As to the origin of these fairy tales, your response above sounds perilously close to that mentality.
Who is it you believe is not going to need to invade us?
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Re: Has anyone read "A Presentation on the Port Arthur Incid

Post by womble » 20 Apr 2023, 4:05 am

My mistake, Tim Fisher, stand corrected.
There was division from my own perspective at the time because it’s what myself and friends were into.
Consider what percentage of the population lives in the coastal cities verses rural inland. On the land everyone had guns. Every home.
And they were useful. Rabbits were in still in abundance and they banned guns that your kids would use to cull them. People still had a distrust for poisons and viruses being cooked up by the csrio

The worlds super powers are always in competition for world domination and every inch of territory gained or lost matters.
Every conflict worldwide. Every minor skirmish. Since the end of the Cold War, has seen internal rebellion backed and funded by your rival state.
Despite public reassurances your governments and military complexes have known since the 50’s that they must control the world’s finite resources to support their future populations. There just won’t be enough world for all of us.
A final showdown is inescapably inevitable. It’s just a race to find the technological higher ground.
The internet just made it easier to access the hearts and minds of your rivals to corrupt their populations.
All involved invest heavily in influencing foreign policy and elections. By heavily I mean billions.

This is a bit dated, about 10 year old info. It employs 10 times that at least now. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Research_Agency They have farms in Eastern Europe also.
China has farms in Ghana. CIA has farms in every western country.
Just the state of world today. It’s what intelligence and counter intelligence actually does. just foreign psyops.
It’s even for hire in the private and commercial sector. Private companies in Israel that are highly reputed to get you a successful outcome within your domestic population.
Countries that allow free speech can be very easily manipulated. There’s speculation that a certain unnamed mining magnate here employed their services.
Corporate media is only one side of the coin. People spend more time on the net than watching the idiot box.
Those calling for a second civil war in the US to divide the country again. That’s foreign influence.
Divide and conquer.
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Re: Has anyone read "A Presentation on the Port Arthur Incid

Post by Lazarus » 20 Apr 2023, 9:06 am

All of the above is true Womble, unfortunately.

I get your point about foreign influence attacks via nonsense conspiracies, also no doubt true.

That however is not anywhere near new. Getting into your enemy's head is as old as dirt, even apes do it, in their own fashion.

What pokes me in the blurter is the sheer number of seemingly rational people who are not only able to completely suspend their higher cognitive functions and accept as gospel one totally preposterous conspiracy, but seem to be looking for the next and the next.........

Like religion, their beliefs are a core thing for them and any contradiction of that nonsense is seen as a direct attack.

I have had numerous arguments with these numpties, some came close to physical, just trying to get a handle on why they believe the palpably unbelievable.
Not one has had any other response than to pronounce those who don't "drink the kool aid" as being sheeple or convenient idiots.
The irony of someone who believes nonsense deprecating those who don't seems totally lost on them.
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Re: Has anyone read "A Presentation on the Port Arthur Incid

Post by womble » 20 Apr 2023, 9:23 am

Qanon is no different than a cult.
But when you combine it with evangelism then their reasoning directly relates to fear of God's wrath.
They won't put forward an argument to illustrate that though.
But it's what they believe and their fear is real
Go against doctrine and you won't be saved in the rapture. You will be dammed along with all the sinners in a world full of depravity .
You're arguing against their salvation
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Re: Has anyone read "A Presentation on the Port Arthur Incid

Post by Lazarus » 20 Apr 2023, 9:59 am

There lies the problem, eh?
It's totally possible to have a real fear of something unreal.
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Re: Has anyone read "A Presentation on the Port Arthur Incid

Post by straightshooter » 21 Apr 2023, 7:54 am

Sadly most people make up their minds based on what they would prefer to believe.
Now the facts of the matter are that Mr. Bryant had an IQ in the mid 60's, roughly equivalent to that of a normal 8 year old who in a less enlightened era would have been classified as a moron, was induced to plead guilty to all charges.
No evidence was presented or more importantly tested in court.
So in this particular matter the cocksure believers of the putative "official version" as speculated in the media are little different to the cocksure believers of the various conspiracy stories.
Thus the only concrete non speculative fact is that Mr Bryant pled guilty to all charges much of which may have been beyond his comprehension and it is all now rock solid history.
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Re: Has anyone read "A Presentation on the Port Arthur Incid

Post by womble » 21 Apr 2023, 9:28 am

Don't need an official version
Don't care for subsequent speculation
I remember it well
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Re: Has anyone read "A Presentation on the Port Arthur Incid

Post by Lazarus » 21 Apr 2023, 9:37 am

Nice try, but even a moron with an IQ of 60, a moron who was seen doing the deed by many survivors let's not forget, can be proud enough of their work to admit to it.

Perhaps you missed the fact that if a defendant pleads guilty, there is no trial at which to present evidence. Someone like Bryant would be proud of his actions and want to brag about it.

You say he was "induced" to plead guilty, can you provide evidence for this claim?

If not, my guess would be you are also drinking the kool aid straightshooter.
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Re: Has anyone read "A Presentation on the Port Arthur Incid

Post by straightshooter » 21 Apr 2023, 1:08 pm

Nice try, but even a moron with an IQ of 60, a moron who was seen doing the deed by many survivors let's not forget,
How do you know if the witness statements were not tested in court?
.... can be proud enough of their work to admit to it....Someone like Bryant would be proud of his actions and want to brag about it.
Is there a reason that you have been gifted with an innate ability to understand these aspects of the character and motivation of morons?
Perhaps you missed the fact that if a defendant pleads guilty, there is no trial at which to present evidence.
No kidding. Did you read what I wrote or did you read what you wanted to see?
You say he was "induced" to plead guilty, can you provide evidence for this claim?
Simply google the words Bryant's mother regrets and you will find plenty of hits in the media you trust.
........you are also drinking the kool aid straightshooter.
Even with that feeble attempt at denigration you don't quite seem to get it right. It was the trusting true believers at Jonestown that drank the Koolaid as is claimed in popular culture where as in actual fact the drink was Tang. It was the doubters and sceptics that survived.
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Re: Has anyone read "A Presentation on the Port Arthur Incid

Post by Lazarus » 21 Apr 2023, 3:28 pm

OK, first, why would the numerous survivors lie about who traumatised them for life?

Second, one doesn't need an "innate ability" to study psychology or even to read the innumerable peer reviewed papers on people with Bryant's particular twist, one only has to look.

Third, what you wrote was plainly clear, ""....the putative "official version..."" says it all.

Fourth, as you're unable to provide backup for your claim of inducement to plead guilty other than the suggestion to google the words of someone with a vested interest, the claim falls over. It is true that his defence solicitor suggested he should but it was Bryant's own decision.

Fifth, even when you're right, you're wrong.
True, it wasn't kool aid, it also wasn't Tang as you authoritatively declare, it was Flavour Aid.
You obviously miss the fact that the expression is an ironic dig at those who accept nonsense as reality.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drinking_the_Kool-Aid

Sixth, and I don't expect you to watch it, as it was a production of the "media" you so distrust and shoots all manner of holes in your conspiracy, but the the video below is informative for those who don't harbour the gobsmacking idea that Israeli and American intelligence agents did it to foster a fear of guns in Australia, to name just one of the loony tune bullsh!t spouted by numpties.

https://youtu.be/DCyZbr-7SG0

Finally, thank you for so thoroughly proving my earlier point that god botherers and conspiracy fantacists beliefs are a core facet of their psychopathology, and any hint of contradiction is seen as a personal attack.
It wasn't, so flush that gravel out of your vagina.
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Re: Has anyone read "A Presentation on the Port Arthur Incid

Post by Baronvonrort » 21 Apr 2023, 3:53 pm

There were some strange things that happened with PA that doesn't make it a conspiracy.

I think MB should have been found not guitly due to mental illness as control of his inheritance money was taken awy from him for mental health reasons. It wouldn't change anything he would still be locked up for the rest of his life.

There were strange things with gun dealer Mr Hill who suffered persecution until he sorted it out it appears MB had a fake firearm license.

There should be questions asked on how that AR15 ended up in his hands after being handed in to police diuring amnesty. The police claimed that rifle was destroyed in Sims metal furnace
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Re: Has anyone read "A Presentation on the Port Arthur Incid

Post by womble » 21 Apr 2023, 6:37 pm

Definitely Baron.
Some high profile people are being protected and we likely won’t know until those people have passed.
Yes he should’ve been institutionalised, but the nature of the event was unsurpassed. People wanted to lynch him. And i don’t think they could have been stopped. I actually don’t think the authorities would have been able to control the mob. If he wasn’t put in the most secure facility they had. If they had him present in any public setting.
Emotions were way too high in the community and people were out of control with anger and grief.

The events are unbelievable and people can be forgiven for that. It dose’nt make sense to anyone who isn’t batshit crazy. It’s easy to raise questions as to how and why. Its an entirely irrational event.
It only made sense to him. He was having the time of life. Highly elated.
This played out over 24 hours as the whole country watched.
It wasn’t in any way shape or form staged.
Within 5 minutes of entering the cafe he had shot 25 people dead, not wounded, all kill shots at close range.
As people began to flee he was less successful hunting them down. He killed a few more but wounded most targets.

The m16 is an amazing design. It is designed for morons to use effectively in high stress situations. Because that’s what the army needed. Everything about this weapon is remarkably natural for any moron to just pick up and go. The straight comb, high sights that are brilliant, light and quick to aim, no recoil. It’s user friendly to the extreme. ( and you know this straightshooter )
Despite being dumb as s**t he was capable of doing what he did with this weapon.

Morbid curiosity only, when i was younger I listened to the audio from the cafe, I listened to the calls with the negotiators. I watched the police interviews. It’s the same guy. No doubt whatsoever. He’s very distinctive in his voice and tone and jovial nonchalance
He’s not quite a human being. A close imitation and reasonably good at imitating one. But he’s not one of us.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3562751/Harrowing-photos-Port-Arthur-massacre-unfolded-20-years-ago.html

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I dream of a world where chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned
womble
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Victoria

Re: Has anyone read "A Presentation on the Port Arthur Incid

Post by Lazarus » 22 Apr 2023, 11:03 am

""There should be questions asked on how that AR15 ended up in his hands after being handed in to police diuring amnesty. The police claimed that rifle was destroyed in Sims metal furnace""

This is a question yet to be addressed by the (serial gun losing) police, and you're spot on Baron.
Courage is knowing it might
hurt, and doing it anyway.
Stupidity is the same
.
And that's why life is hard
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Lazarus
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New South Wales

Re: Has anyone read "A Presentation on the Port Arthur Incid

Post by Fionn » 22 Apr 2023, 9:42 pm

Lazarus wrote:""There should be questions asked on how that AR15 ended up in his hands after being handed in to police diuring amnesty. The police claimed that rifle was destroyed in Sims metal furnace""

This is a question yet to be addressed by the (serial gun losing) police, and you're spot on Baron.


Hanlon's razor.
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Fionn
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Victoria

Re: Has anyone read "A Presentation on the Port Arthur Incid

Post by Lazarus » 23 Apr 2023, 6:18 am

Good point Fionn.
Basic stupidity is a far more likely cause than malice in police losing track of the guns for which they are responsible.
Courage is knowing it might
hurt, and doing it anyway.
Stupidity is the same
.
And that's why life is hard
User avatar
Lazarus
Officer Cadet
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New South Wales

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