ADI Powder shortages

[Oldbloke]

Rather than derail another thread thought I would start a new one.

There is lots of whinging about no ADI Fast powders such as shot gun, pistol and trail boss.
And not a lot of the less common slower rifle powders either.

I remembered this today.
We are providing gunpowder to France to make 155mm ammo to help Ukraine.
Now, have NFI what powder is used. Unlikely anything we would use. But I assume it would be diverting resources from other production areas.
Article dated 31.1.23

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-01-31/ ... /101909512?

utm_source=abc_news_web&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_campaign=abc_news_web

Resized_Screenshot_20240102-155156_Samsung_Internet.jpeg (227.43 KiB) Viewed 2616 times

[Oldbloke]

In addition I'll more or less repeat what I said on another thread.

The production line for the fast powder has not produced so much as 1kg of product that is suitable to use in about 3 years. (Since it was built)

And the old line has been demolished. This was done prior to the new line being proved.

The other production line for slower powder is operational and some powders are available to buy.

And let's not forget, they are a business that will consider profits and the often government sets the priorities.

We are a sport, so I'm guessing we are low priority.

[bladeracer]

I've read that they use very fast powders in the priming tube (the tube full of holes that spreads the primer detonation deep into the propellant charge). That could be a "pistol" powder perhaps but I have no idea. Even if it is, several thousand shells would probably only use a couple of tonnes of powder in those I would think. The shell itself would use an explosive material rather than a propellant.

Rather than derail another thread thought I would start a new one.

There is lots of whinging about no ADI Fast powders such as shot gun, pistol and trail boss.
And not a lot of the less common slower rifle powders either.

I remembered this today.
We are providing gunpowder to France to make 155mm ammo to help Ukraine.
Now, have NFI what powder is used. Unlikely anything we would use. But I assume it would be diverting resources from other production areas.
Article dated 31.1.23

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-01-31/ ... /101909512?

utm_source=abc_news_web&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_campaign=abc_news_web

Resized_Screenshot_20240102-155156_Samsung_Internet.jpeg

[No1_49er]

I remembered this today.
We are providing gunpowder to France to make 155mm ammo to help Ukraine.
Now, have NFI what powder is used. Unlikely anything we would use. But I assume it would be diverting resources from other production areas.

As much as we may like to think that ADI is a great Australian company (think Mulwex) you can not escape the fact that ADI is now owned by Thales. Guess where that business is domiciled.
Australia is a pimple on their arse, no matter which way you cut it, but oh so handy to have a production facility a little bit out of harms way.
Just sayin'.

[No1Mk3]

G'day Oldbloke,
The powder is very much like "what we use", just different grain size and coatings. (M1 artillery propellant grain size 3mm dia x 4mm long)

[Oldbloke]

As much as we may like to think that ADI is a great Australian company (think Mulwex) you can not escape the fact that ADI is now owned by Thales. Guess where that business is domiciled.
Australia is a pimple on their arse, no matter which way you cut it, but oh so handy to have a production facility a little bit out of harms way.
Just sayin'.

Yes, of course. ADI is owned ny the French. (Thales) But they only lease the facilities from the commonwealth government. I think that's well known.

I could be wrong but there are two basic recipes. ( I guess they can be tweeked) The burn rates are only determined by, shape, size & coatings.

[darklazor]

You can still find ADI rifle powers and there's a good supply of pistol primes. Shotgun power is like finding gold in a sand pit rifle primers are non-existent.

[wanneroo]

You guys may as well accept ADI ain't saving you or gives a crap about you.

For the industry at large that means they better just arrange a steady supply from vendors overseas, Hodgdon, Vihtavouri, Lovex, etc.

[Billo]

I remembered this today.
We are providing gunpowder to France to make 155mm ammo to help Ukraine.
Now, have NFI what powder is used. Unlikely anything we would use. But I assume it would be diverting resources from other production areas.

As much as we may like to think that ADI is a great Australian company (think Mulwex) you can not escape the fact that ADI is now owned by Thales. Guess where that business is domiciled.
Australia is a pimple on their arse, no matter which way you cut it, but oh so handy to have a production facility a little bit out of harms way.
Just sayin'.

And Thales who make ADI powders have the French State as a 25.7% major shareholder.

The French dont give a s**t about Aussie shooters, esp after Scomo and his Submarine subterfuge

[straightshooter]

Although coming up with a credible explanation for the powder and primer drought might provide comfort to some it's not magically going to make it appear on gunshop shelves.
Unfortunately those who have not adequately provided for their future needs will have to pay. Not just the private opportunists but dealers as well.

[bladeracer]

You guys may as well accept ADI ain't saving you or gives a crap about you.

For the industry at large that means they better just arrange a steady supply from vendors overseas, Hodgdon, Vihtavouri, Lovex, etc.

I think their finally going public about trying to get the pistol/shotshell powders happening again says that they do care about the loss of revenue. Whether they're able to make it happen though remains to be seen. After a deafening silence for almost three years it's a step in the right direction.

[Lazarus]

Probably best to learn how to use a bow.

Once this new world war gets going properly, that's probably all we'll have

[darklazor]

Yea, It’s not good. Factory ammo is getting over priced. And with no primers around and those that got no stock left it’s back to factory ammo.
I heard don’t know if its true or not but, ADI production line of pistol and shotgun power has been offline for years. Want we need is a Australian ammo company for Aussies by Aussie’s. Primers power and ammo. Cause importers and dealers are all trying to make a cut and shipping cost from overseas its just Driving prices though the roof when there is stock.

[bladeracer]

Yea, It’s not good. Factory ammo is getting over priced. And with no primers around and those that got no stock left it’s back to factory ammo.
I heard don’t know if its true or not but, ADI production line of pistol and shotgun power has been offline for years. Want we need is a Australian ammo company for Aussies by Aussie’s. Primers power and ammo. Cause importers and dealers are all trying to make a cut and shipping cost from overseas its just Driving prices though the roof when there is stock.

ADI already produce factory ammo in .223 and .308, since they make 5.56mm and 7.62mm for NATO anyway those are easy ones. Would be good to see them expand to other cartridges, especially .22LR, and primers. But I don't know that we have a profitable market for them so they would probably be reliant on export, which might be difficult as most of the countries we might export to do have their own manufacturers to compete against. Perhaps if they can get the fast powders working and start seeing some real profit from those then we can try pushing them to expand. But it's difficult to expect anybody to pour millions into ammo manufacturing in a country that has shown it is more than happy, and plenty willing, to ban shooting altogether overnight with no legitimate reasoning.

[bladeracer]

Probably best to learn how to use a bow.

Once this new world war gets going properly, that's probably all we'll have

I have a bow but my shoulders really aren't up to it, even at low power levels. Crossbows are a much smarter option for taking live targets, but prohibited in most states.

[Lazarus]

Probably best to learn how to use a bow.

Once this new world war gets going properly, that's probably all we'll have

I have a bow but my shoulders really aren't up to it, even at low power levels. Crossbows are a much smarter option for taking live targets, but prohibited in most states.

To be honest, I'm amazed that bows haven't been banned for the same nonsensical reasoning as suppressors; "how can innocent vegans know some evil carnivore is out murdering Bambi if they/them/it/? can't hear the shot?"

[Jackaroo]

ADI can get STUFFED I've been able to buy Vihtavouri, Lovex and Vectan pistol powders in the last 4 months and hope the Aussie importers are making a motza for stepping up and I'm happy to support THEM.

Again....ADI can go and GET stuffed.

[bigpete]

Probably best to learn how to use a bow.

Once this new world war gets going properly, that's probably all we'll have

Way ahead of you there

[bladeracer]

ADI can get STUFFED I've been able to buy Vihtavouri, Lovex and Vectan pistol powders in the last 4 months and hope the Aussie importers are making a motza for stepping up and I'm happy to support THEM.

Again....ADI can go and GET stuffed.

Well, if ADI gets their line running again I can only hope there remains a supply of these foreign powders for people like yourself that won't be using the Aussie-made stuff. I would expect ADI to follow the pricing the market has set with these foreign imports, so I think ADI will be making the motza.

[zbenga]

whats the point of making primers and powder when you can 5x on making factory ammo

[darklazor]

The 223 ammo cans from ADI 900 round for $1100 that’s good value. Apparently there’s a Winchester primer production factory in Victoria somewhere that has been setup and is sitting still, something do with the VIC government. Don’t much about it but it would good when and if it dose start production since they closed the Geelong factory. Which was a shame. But ADI is military complex orientated it States it in its name. Domestic market is probably just a Thorn in its back.

Yea, It’s not good. Factory ammo is getting over priced. And with no primers around and those that got no stock left it’s back to factory ammo.
I heard don’t know if its true or not but, ADI production line of pistol and shotgun power has been offline for years. Want we need is a Australian ammo company for Aussies by Aussie’s. Primers power and ammo. Cause importers and dealers are all trying to make a cut and shipping cost from overseas its just Driving prices though the roof when there is stock.

ADI already produce factory ammo in .223 and .308, since they make 5.56mm and 7.62mm for NATO anyway those are easy ones. Would be good to see them expand to other cartridges, especially .22LR, and primers. But I don't know that we have a profitable market for them so they would probably be reliant on export, which might be difficult as most of the countries we might export to do have their own manufacturers to compete against. Perhaps if they can get the fast powders working and start seeing some real profit from those then we can try pushing them to expand. But it's difficult to expect anybody to pour millions into ammo manufacturing in a country that has shown it is more than happy, and plenty willing, to ban shooting altogether overnight with no legitimate reasoning.

[Oldbloke]

The 223 ammo cans from ADI 900 round for $1100 that’s good value. Apparently there’s a Winchester primer production factory in Victoria somewhere that has been setup and is sitting still, something do with the VIC government. Don’t much about it but it would good when and if it dose start production since they closed the Geelong factory. Which was .

[/quote]

My understanding is when the factory was decommissioned everything went back to the US, including primer manufacturing gear.
Now, just a warehouse.

ADI scraped their primer production line a few years ago. All their primer s are imported.

Over the last year or so at least 3 factories overseas have started producing primers on new lines.
Don't recall the details but 1 in Sth America, one in USA & 1 in Europe.

[darklazor]

My understanding is when the factory was decommissioned everything went back to the US, including primer manufacturing gear.
Now, just a warehouse.

ADI scraped their primer production line a few years ago. All their primer s are imported.

Over the last year or so at least 3 factories overseas have started producing primers on new lines.
Don't recall the details but 1 in Sth America, one in USA & 1 in Europe.

That was understanding too, but APPARENTLY, they as set up a new one ready to go but isn't in action. Whether you believe gun shop talk or not.
But hopefully, we start seeing power and primers back on shelves.

[Oldbloke]

My understanding is when the factory was decommissioned everything went back to the US, including primer manufacturing gear.
Now, just a warehouse.

ADI scraped their primer production line a few years ago. All their primer s are imported.

Over the last year or so at least 3 factories overseas have started producing primers on new lines.
Don't recall the details but 1 in Sth America, one in USA & 1 in Europe.

That was understanding too, but APPARENTLY, they as set up a new one ready to go but isn't in action. Whether you believe gun shop talk or not.
But hopefully, we start seeing power and primers back on shelves.

Right first I've heard that.
If it's being held up by government then could be worksafe approval or licensing requirements.

[Jackaroo]

ADI can get STUFFED I've been able to buy Vihtavouri, Lovex and Vectan pistol powders in the last 4 months and hope the Aussie importers are making a motza for stepping up and I'm happy to support THEM.

Again....ADI can go and GET stuffed.

Well, if ADI gets their line running again I can only hope there remains a supply of these foreign powders for people like yourself that won't be using the Aussie-made stuff. I would expect ADI to follow the pricing the market has set with these foreign imports, so I think ADI will be making the motza.

I couldn't give a crap what pistol powder I use as long as its available to buy. I'll buy ADI if they ever pull there collective fingers out of French coit holes.

Do I give a rats arse about ADI .....not one stinking iota......because that's how much they care about us....anyone with ANY loyalty to ADI is a fool.

BIG THUMBS up to the Aussie's who have stepped up and brought pistol powders into the country to keep Aussie pistol shooters reloading.

[wanneroo]

You guys may as well accept ADI ain't saving you or gives a crap about you.

For the industry at large that means they better just arrange a steady supply from vendors overseas, Hodgdon, Vihtavouri, Lovex, etc.

I think their finally going public about trying to get the pistol/shotshell powders happening again says that they do care about the loss of revenue. Whether they're able to make it happen though remains to be seen. After a deafening silence for almost three years it's a step in the right direction.

If it is, the impetus is probably the Australian military. There does seem to be some interest on the part of the government in being somewhat sufficient in some things in case the big one breaks out.

[wanneroo]

ADI can get STUFFED I've been able to buy Vihtavouri, Lovex and Vectan pistol powders in the last 4 months and hope the Aussie importers are making a motza for stepping up and I'm happy to support THEM.

Again....ADI can go and GET stuffed.

That is really the answer because there is no shortage of pistol powder on the world market, it just needs imported.

[wanneroo]

The 223 ammo cans from ADI 900 round for $1100 that’s good value. Apparently there’s a Winchester primer production factory in Victoria somewhere that has been setup and is sitting still, something do with the VIC government. Don’t much about it but it would good when and if it dose start production since they closed the Geelong factory. Which was .

My understanding is when the factory was decommissioned everything went back to the US, including primer manufacturing gear.
Now, just a warehouse.

ADI scraped their primer production line a few years ago. All their primer s are imported.

Over the last year or so at least 3 factories overseas have started producing primers on new lines.
Don't recall the details but 1 in Sth America, one in USA & 1 in Europe.[/quote]

Fiocchi is opening a specific primer plant in Arkansas, USA. It may already be open, I know it was under construction.

Remington is back online making primers. Today I visited a gun store here in the USA, tons of Remington primers on the shelf and when I looked down at the floor, there were big cardboard boxes sliced opened with tens of thousands of primers sitting there.

There is a factory in Argentina making small pistol primers now.

There is also another primer factory that opened in Arkansas called White River and they are making primers. They kinda popped up out of nowhere but people are buying them and reviewing them on the various forums and Youtube.

I know for a fact Sig Sauer is looking at getting into primer production themselves.

[darklazor]

That's good, that you guys are getting stock back on shelves, But there are no primers in Australia at the moment, I haven't seen primers since 2020. Australia needs its own domestic production. Also, I am pretty sure the US government placed an export ban on ammo for 90 days so that might have to do with why our shelves are getting bare all around.

Fiocchi is opening a specific primer plant in Arkansas, USA. It may already be open, I know it was under construction.

Remington is back online making primers. Today I visited a gun store here in the USA, tons of Remington primers on the shelf and when I looked down at the floor, there were big cardboard boxes sliced opened with tens of thousands of primers sitting there.

There is a factory in Argentina making small pistol primers now.

There is also another primer factory that opened in Arkansas called White River and they are making primers. They kinda popped up out of nowhere but people are buying them and reviewing them on the various forums and Youtube.

I know for a fact Sig Sauer is looking at getting into primer production themselves.

[Jackaroo]

There's been a LOT of Federal primers coming into OZ for the last 18 months (yes pricey, but seriously so what?).

You've got to be proactive and keep on ringing around the gun shops and putting your name down, but keep ringing.

There was a large shipment of Fiocchi primers that were spread out everywhere a few months back that were great value because they were priced OK and 1500 per brick (nice smaller size packaging as well).

Later around the end of January there should be a very healthy supply of White River Energetic primers around LGSs, but again you have to be proactive and ring around and put your name down and be prepared to pay up front.