Lead Free Bullets Study.

[Fionn]

Stellar research and comm's work here by the GMA.

https://www.facebook.com/GameManagementAuthority/posts/pfbid02Sugsyp1uPdUoEdyD3cNCjQUMU5YGHTtCdPjKQ3HNmF6KVBeH6Gz1tnKfUnZbv6DNl

In preparation for the peak deer hunting period, we’re encouraging hunters to visit to their local shooting range and trial lead-free bullets to see which ones perform best in their firearm.

Lead fragments from lead-based bullets pose a risk to wildlife scavengers, like Wedge-tailed Eagles, and humans who consume meat from shot animals.
Researchers from the GMA and University of Melbourne recently x-rayed the carcasses of Hog Deer shot with both lead-based and lead-free bullets. They found that lead-based bullets contaminated the carcasses with metallic bullet fragments significantly more than lead-free bullets.

We’re recommending that all wildlife managers and recreational hunters in Victoria consider transitioning to lead-free bullets.

[bladeracer]

Stellar research and comm's work here by the GMA.

https://www.facebook.com/GameManagementAuthority/posts/pfbid02Sugsyp1uPdUoEdyD3cNCjQUMU5YGHTtCdPjKQ3HNmF6KVBeH6Gz1tnKfUnZbv6DNl

In preparation for the peak deer hunting period, we’re encouraging hunters to visit to their local shooting range and trial lead-free bullets to see which ones perform best in their firearm.

Lead fragments from lead-based bullets pose a risk to wildlife scavengers, like Wedge-tailed Eagles, and humans who consume meat from shot animals.
Researchers from the GMA and University of Melbourne recently x-rayed the carcasses of Hog Deer shot with both lead-based and lead-free bullets. They found that lead-based bullets contaminated the carcasses with metallic bullet fragments significantly more than lead-free bullets.

We’re recommending that all wildlife managers and recreational hunters in Victoria consider transitioning to lead-free bullets.

Nice, so helicopter culls will finally be banned?

[Blr243]

Barnes rubbing their hands together

[Oldbloke]

I'd like to see the stat's regarding how many hunters that don't cast, nor shoot in enclosed ranges have died or become severe handicapped due to lead poisoning.

My bet is that it's fewer than, rock fisherman drowning and microscopic compared to drug related deaths. Perhaps even fewer than death by a police shooting.

P.S. I also predict it will be microscopic compared to medical mistakes.

[Oldbloke]

Sooo, the experts at GMA and the University of Melbourne came to the conclusion that copper bullets don't leave lead in the dead animal. But lead bullets do leave lead in the carcass.

What can I say, lucky we don't rely on them to conduct any brain surgery.

Resized_Screenshot_20240109-205756_Samsung_Internet.jpeg (137.51 KiB) Viewed 1491 times

I think they are forgetting that people normally remove the bruised, damaged, contaminated meat during butchering.

AND the body actually removes lead in the body over time. So, unless you eat a LOT of contaminated meat ( remember we remove it) it isn't a problem.

BUT it's OK for us to be breathing in the pettol fumes, including all that lovely Benzene everything we fill up.

And was ok for people to be exposed to asbestos for about 100 years before the government's stepped in. And it's been a known health issue when the Egyptians were mining it perhaps 3 000 years ago.

So, why is it I get the feeling this is just another anti-shooter agenda?

[bladeracer]

I'd like to see the stat's regarding how many hunters that don't cast, nor shoot in enclosed ranges have died or become severe handicapped due to lead poisoning.

My bet is that it's fewer than, rock fisherman drowning and microscopic compared to drug related deaths. Perhaps even fewer than death by a police shooting.

P.S. I also predict it will be microscopic compared to medical mistakes.

I don't think anybody is seriously worried about hunters ingesting lead, it's more about native wildlife feeding on the bits we leave behind in the bush.

[Oldbloke]

tempFileForShare_20240109-213616_178418687766864.jpg (159.67 KiB) Viewed 1485 times

Sooo if this is their "evidence " they need to go back to the drawing board.

Where are the blood test results from hunters and wild life to indicated elevated lead levels? NOTHING.

Now, unless it's higher than the acceptable levels for a person working in a lead environment I say hog wash.

And let's be clear, these results must not include shooters who cast. ( nlood tests if they have the balls to collect them) That would give a false impression.

Also if dogs, fixes, cats and rats, are eating, great. Because they would be the main consumers of contaminated meat left in the bush.

Honestly, very unprofessional reporting IMO.

[on_one_wheel]

Lead doesn't affect affect affect me.

I'll stop using copper coated lead projectiles once I've depleted the enormous stockpile I've amassed, it should take me around 2 lifetimes to unload that lot.

[Oldbloke]

I'd like to see the stat's regarding how many hunters that don't cast, nor shoot in enclosed ranges have died or become severe handicapped due to lead poisoning.

My bet is that it's fewer than, rock fisherman drowning and microscopic compared to drug related deaths. Perhaps even fewer than death by a police shooting.

P.S. I also predict it will be microscopic compared to medical mistakes.

I don't think anybody is seriously worried about hunters ingesting lead, it's more about native wildlife feeding on the bits we leave behind in the bush.

That would be right. So, where are the test results.
Just because it MIGHT happen means nothing.

[Oldbloke]

Hog deer. The smallest. Means the lead will spread further. Sounds worse than " lead wss only in the shoulder of a sambar". It's just BS.

[Oldbloke]

I really get sick of knowalls (who know SFA) using safety for other agendas.
They only do it because it's not political correct to sound antisafety.

Th hey need to be factual and scientific. Not just BS on.

[Oldbloke]

Just a thought. If they are so worried about preditors dieing from lead poisoning and our health.

Does that mean:
1. The grubiement is going to stop using 1080?
2. And silences will be legalised next year.
3. I want the $10 bounty if they find a dead fox.

[wanneroo]

I remember one company I did work for, the place I worked was a start up business and was built from scratch. With it was a whole outdoor range complex they hacked out of the woods from nothing. As they were building it they were in contact with the state environmental protection folks as well as the federal EPA.

In a nutshell what I learned was lead dust being inhaled or ingested was the issue, i.e. indoor ranges with poor ventilation or handling lead or having lead dust on hands and then eating or something like that. Lead bullets or even lead pieces though are basically inert. As the EPA described with a bullet landing out in the woods, it is inert and just sits there for perpetuity just like a rock, it doesn't contaminate anything or hurt anything.

[Oldbloke]

I remember one company I did work for, the place I worked was a start up business and was built from scratch. With it was a whole outdoor range complex they hacked out of the woods from nothing. As they were building it they were in contact with the state environmental protection folks as well as the federal EPA.

In a nutshell what I learned was lead dust being inhaled or ingested was the issue, i.e. indoor ranges with poor ventilation or handling lead or having lead dust on hands and then eating or something like that. Lead bullets or even lead pieces though are basically inert. As the EPA described with a bullet landing out in the woods, it is inert and just sits there for perpetuity just like a rock, it doesn't contaminate anything or hurt anything.

Yes, it's the very fine dusts and fumes that you breath.
The body does not absorb lead well through the digestive system.
The body is very good at absorbing lead via the lungs.

It's not the larger pieces that you handle and in theory you could eat. This is because if you eat pieces say the size of NO 10 shot the total surface area of say 1 gram of lead is only a fraction of the surface area of the same amount of lead that is fine like flour. The larger the surface give the body greater opportunity to attack the lead. Larger pieces less opportunities.

In the mean time the body is also constantly removing it.

Standard practice in the lead industry is if your blood levels are elevated you just stop working with lead for few months.

Show me the dead wildlife and the dead hunters.

[Lazarus]

That would be right. So, where are the test results.
Just because it MIGHT happen means nothing.

Come on OB, don't be a fudd.
Do you insure your house?
Do you wear your seatbelt?

[Oldbloke]

Well, yes, I wear a seat belt and insure my house.

That's because there is plenty of evidence through history that's houses some times burn down or get flooded. And for years plenty were dying on the roads.

Where is the evidence that animals or hunters are dieing or even being seriously effected from consuming lead?

Decisions should be decided on evidence and science, not hear say.

[Lazarus]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10104915/

https://phys.org/news/2022-08-exposure- ... -game.html

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 9123003196

https://www.ehn.org/lead-ammunition-in- ... 08170.html

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... ition-ban/

[bladeracer]

What the story is telling us is that it's only a short matter of time while they draft some ridiculous regulations until we will be forced to hunt with non-lead bullets, like California, I believe UK, and parts of Europe already are. As far as I'm aware these restrictions only apply to actual hunting of live targets, those countries are still free to litter hillsides with as many lead bullets as they wish.

I'd rather see education than draconian measures. Educate hunters about the effect of lead bullets on the wildlife and hopefully they'll do a better job of cleaning up after themselves, or making their own choice to use zinc/copper/brass bullets instead. Of course, helicopter culls will be exempted and free to leave carcasses everywhere.

They may push the human health ramifications but I really see that being a non-issue, backed up by a few hundred years of hunting data.

[Oldbloke]

Mate, all that is needed is to provide advice not to eat meat, or feed the meat to hunting dogs that has potential lead contamination.

As far as wild life goes who cares about the foxes and dogs.

[bladeracer]

Mate, all that is needed is to provide advice not to eat meat, or feed the meat to hunting dogs that has potential lead contamination.

As far as wild life goes who cares about the foxes and dogs.

The wildlife are not the ferals but the native animals that predate carcasses left in the bush, eagles, hawks, crocs, etc.

[Lazarus]

Mate, all that is needed is to provide advice not to eat meat, or feed the meat to hunting dogs that has potential lead contamination.

As far as wild life goes who cares about the foxes and dogs.

You know it's not about the foxes or the dogs, OB, now you're just being disingenuous.

It's the raptors, the corvids, the small carnivorous mammals, all the scavenging natives they are talking about.

[Lazarus]

What the story is telling us is that it's only a short matter of time while they draft some ridiculous regulations until we will be forced to hunt with non-lead bullets, like California, I believe UK, and parts of Europe already are. As far as I'm aware these restrictions only apply to actual hunting of live targets, those countries are still free to litter hillsides with as many lead bullets as they wish.

I'd rather see education than draconian measures. Educate hunters about the effect of lead bullets on the wildlife and hopefully they'll do a better job of cleaning up after themselves, or making their own choice to use zinc/copper/brass bullets instead. Of course, helicopter culls will be exempted and free to leave carcasses everywhere.

They may push the human health ramifications but I really see that being a non-issue, backed up by a few hundred years of hunting data.

So would we all, I bitch about over regulation all the time.
Trouble is, "people" are often stupid, selfish cnuts who don't give an arse full of steam for anything or anyone else, hence, regulation.

[Lazarus]

Here's an example of what's left behind when we drop a feral and leave it.

20231122_134052.jpg (338.33 KiB) Viewed 1374 times

[Oldbloke]

Here's an example of what's left behind when we drop a feral and leave it.

20231122_134052.jpg

Yep, and because of the size of the particles it is more or less harmless to ingest. As was explained earlier.

Only lead particles the as fine or smaller than flour will harm you. Unless you sprinklr it on your wheelies every morning for 6 months.

It's about the particles size and the DOSE. And if the body can remove the toxins.

e.g. panadol is great for headaches. Eat a packet and next week you will need a liver transplant.
e.g. We cannot survive without salt. Use too much every day you BP goes up. Eat half a cup in 1 day, your the walking dead.

Same applies to lead. The small amounts consumed by hunters every year will not harm you.
NOTE: One of the papers you linked was about hound teams. That's because they already know its a common practice for them to feed a lot of the scrap/ bruised meat to the hounds. They new what the results would be before they took the blood samples.

Q. Did they take blood samples from the hunters and their families. NO. I wonder why? Perhaps they knew what the results would be. SFA because hunters don't eat the bullet damaged meat, that's why.

These prick have a anti gun agenda and they prey on those without the knowledge and are using scare tactics. They are feeding out DISINFORMATION. Or if you like lies.

Ask yourself if it was so fukn bad why is it used in industry?
Why aren't they taking blood samples from hunters and their families? The consumers of the shot game.

Why aren't there reports of wildlife having elevated levels of Pb in their blood. Mmmm I wonder.

[Lazarus]

Here's an example of what's left behind when we drop a feral and leave it.

20231122_134052.jpg

Yep, and because of the size of the particles it is more or less harmless to ingest. As was explained earlier.

Only lead particles the as fine or smaller than flour will harm you. Unless you sprinklr it on your wheelies every morning for 6 months.

It's about the particles size and the DOSE. And if the body can remove the toxins.

e.g. panadol is great for headaches. Eat a packet and next week you will need a liver transplant.
e.g. We cannot survive without salt. Use too much every day you BP goes up. Eat half a cup in 1 day, your the walking dead.

Same applies to lead. The small amounts consumed by hunters every year will not harm you.
NOTE: One of the papers you linked was about hound teams. That's because they already know its a common practice for them to feed a lot of the scrap/ bruised meat to the hounds. They new what the results would be before they took the blood samples.

Q. Did they take blood samples from the hunters and their families. NO. I wonder why? Perhaps they knew what the results would be. SFA because hunters don't eat the bullet damaged meat, that's why.

These prick have a anti gun agenda and they prey on those without the knowledge and are using scare tactics. They are feeding out DISINFORMATION. Or if you like lies.

Tell you what OB, in the name of science, how about you put your metabolism where your mouth is.

If you reckon "small" lumps of lead are harmless, how about you swallow a .177 airgun pellet every day and we can see for ourselves.

Or maybe think about why lead water pipes were discontinued, because just by running through the pipes, the water had toxic levels of lead.

Take a valium OB, not everything's a conspiracy.
Nobody's coming for your ute, or your gun, or even your lead ammo, but seriously, lead is not good sh!t to ingest in any sized particle, how are we worse off by spraying less around?

[Lazarus]

And I have to ask OB, would you really eat meat with that amount of visible lead debris, let alone the stuff you cant see?
Or feed it to your family?

[Oldbloke]

1. OK, so I'm sure eaten plenty of shotty pellets of lead from rabbits ducks. But not intentionally.

2. Hunters don't deliberately swallow lead from game. They remove the lead damaged meat. Do you eat the bruised lead filled meat?
3. If I had a concern, which I don't , I would visit my Dr and arrange a blood test. If it was elevated I would identify the source and eliminate my exposure. And after a few months Pb levels would return to normal. THATS WHAT HAPPENS I INDUSTRY where the exposure levels are MUCH higher.

You have been conned.

[Fionn]

Lead doesn't affect affect affect me.

I'll stop using copper coated lead projectiles once I've depleted the enormous stockpile I've amassed, it should take me around 2 lifetimes to unload that lot.

Commenting in a thread I made, but yeah, you don't read my post



Just have to wait for

mickb

to come along soon I guess, although I may have let the cat out of the bag.

[Fionn]

tempFileForShare_20240109-213616_178418687766864.jpg

Sooo if this is their "evidence " they need to go back to the drawing board.

I understand why you think this, as it was written to confuse and they are writing and implying it to cause confusion and maybe for another agenda.

A clever piece of propaganda.

[Tomotron]

Stellar research and comm's work here by the GMA.

https://www.facebook.com/GameManagementAuthority/posts/pfbid02Sugsyp1uPdUoEdyD3cNCjQUMU5YGHTtCdPjKQ3HNmF6KVBeH6Gz1tnKfUnZbv6DNl

In preparation for the peak deer hunting period, we’re encouraging hunters to visit to their local shooting range and trial lead-free bullets to see which ones perform best in their firearm.

Lead fragments from lead-based bullets pose a risk to wildlife scavengers, like Wedge-tailed Eagles, and humans who consume meat from shot animals.
Researchers from the GMA and University of Melbourne recently x-rayed the carcasses of Hog Deer shot with both lead-based and lead-free bullets. They found that lead-based bullets contaminated the carcasses with metallic bullet fragments significantly more than lead-free bullets.

We’re recommending that all wildlife managers and recreational hunters in Victoria consider transitioning to lead-free bullets.

Nice, so helicopter culls will finally be banned?

I agree with the study, however, non-lead ammunition is still not widely available in rimfire cartridges. Also, there should always be a choice between lead and non-lead ammo while encouraging people to adopt or favor the latter through gradual education. As for chopper culls, I don't see it as honorable as there's normally a sporting aspect to hunting which gives the prey time to react. If people always hunt from choppers then they must be s**t at actual hunting and are therefore cowards.