BBC Panorama - Americas. Gun. Addiction.

Shooting in the news and political arena.

BBC Panorama - Americas. Gun. Addiction.

Post by Guliver » 03 Dec 2014, 9:10 pm

BBC Panorama 2013 Americas Gun Addiction.

Well worth a watch for those who can find a download.

Found just a little part of it on You Tube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bc1FLSg2wIY

The you Tube shows just a couple of minutes from a half hour show,

To outsiders, it's a mystifying and maddening symptom of America's infatuation with firearms that barely four months after the Sandy Hook shootings took the lives of 26 people, the gun lobby is as strong as ever. While President Obama struggles to pass any form of new gun regulations in a country where some states will let you walk into a bank with a handgun (see Alex Hannaford's remarkable piece in the new issue of GQ) tonight's Panorama sees Hilary Andersson meet the opposition. The extreme wing of the gun lobby she meets actually want to prevent more school shootings by giving teachers guns - and scarily, tonight's programme airs after the news that this weekend that South Dakota has just voted in favour of the proposal. One can't watch without feeling that the next American tragedy is only a matter of time.
User avatar
Guliver
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 414
Victoria

Re: BBC.Panorama.2013.Americas.Gun.Addiction.

Post by Westy » 04 Dec 2014, 6:39 am

I say God Bless America and don't take their s**t laying down Guys!!!!!!
I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.
User avatar
Westy
Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major
 
Posts: 1698
Queensland

Re: BBC.Panorama.2013.Americas.Gun.Addiction.

Post by fawksel » 05 Dec 2014, 8:53 am

Interesting a private seller can sell without any checks required on buyer.

Dealers have to run the check, but not private sellers.

I wonder if there is any implication for private seller who sells to someone dealer is prohibited from selling to?
Marlin 1894 .44 Magnum
Remington 770 Stainless Camo .270 Win
Mossberg 802 Plinkster 22LR
User avatar
fawksel
Private
Private
 
Posts: 63
New South Wales

Re: BBC.Panorama.2013.Americas.Gun.Addiction.

Post by Mich » 05 Dec 2014, 10:14 am

Not that I know of.

The onus is on the felon to not be in possession of a firearm.

The seller would have no way to check the buyer for any criminal history.

I must say this is a loophole I think should be closed.

Criminals can get guns other ways I know, but making it easy for them by leaving it open so they can walk into a show any day of the week and buy one over the counter is stupid.

All goes towards incidents and figures that hurt law abiding Americans like myself.
User avatar
Mich
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 221
United States of America

Re: BBC.Panorama.2013.Americas.Gun.Addiction.

Post by ChicagoTed » 05 Dec 2014, 11:25 am

its already illegal for them to have a gun, how would another law stop them if they are breaking one in the first place. universal background checks have been tried and dont work.
mossberg 500
mosin 91/30
ar15 frankengun
glock 22 gen 4
User avatar
ChicagoTed
Private
Private
 
Posts: 62
United States of America

Re: BBC.Panorama.2013.Americas.Gun.Addiction.

Post by Mich » 05 Dec 2014, 2:29 pm

I did say they can get them other ways... I then said, and my points was, at the moment they can buy one as easily as a pack of cigarettes at any corner store.

I don't have all the solutions, but that goes beyond 'making it easy' for them to get there hands on them. That's a facility for them to have an endless supply.

And to point out an obvious flaw... Saying "universal background checks have been tried and don't work" makes no sense when we've just established people don't have to go through them. Of course they don't work when people can choose to by from a venue that requires a check, or one that does not.

I think a check for criminal convictions is reasonable. Dealers could do them on the spot, gunshow organisers could arrange it as part of shows.

I'm not a fool, I realise a background check won't solve gun crime but I think a check before sale is reasonable and would reduce the problem by some degree without unnecessarily inconveniencing law abiding citizens like ourselves. I can wait 2 minutes for a dealer to type my name into his computer.

That's my personal opinion.
User avatar
Mich
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 221
United States of America

Re: BBC.Panorama.2013.Americas.Gun.Addiction.

Post by Rayder44 » 08 Dec 2014, 7:29 pm

Put it this way:

After all the legislation, precautions, background checks, storage and licensing, PTAs and waiting periods, here in Australia the criminals still have guns. Make them outright illegal for citizens to own them, and the criminals will still have them.

My opinion? You will never eliminate gun crime. The gangs here have resorted to making homemade guns to augment the smuggled guns. That's right, fully home-made. And they're not some little .22 pea shooter either. We're talking Mac-10 style automatics, among other things.

So legislate away. But don't be surprised when it doesn't work and those same politicians say that they need to implement more restrictions. Once they have their foot in the door, it's over.

The biggest problem that you guys over in the US have is the gang culture. Although there are gangs and such over here, they're nowhere near as prevalent as the US. You can't turn to us as a poster boy for gun control. Our society and culture are different. We have always had a low murder rate. Gun control never stopped murders and they certainly didn't stop organisations like the Bikies and the Middle-Eastern Organised Crime groups.

You guys have FAR more firearms in circulation and when you realise that so many Americans have guns, it's surprising that the crime rate is so low.

Now look, sure there are some people that I'd really prefer not to have a gun. Ultimately, if they don't use it for crime who am I to complain? But if they were, I'd much rather there be someone there with a concealed firearm to stop them, than shoot up a shopping center and rack up 30-50 kills before Police arrive, because citizens aren't allowed to carry a firearm for Self Defence.
Rayder44
Recruit
Recruit
 
Posts: 7
New South Wales

Re: BBC Panorama - Americas. Gun. Addiction.

Post by cavok » 09 Dec 2014, 11:40 am

Possibly as is written above on the post, the actual crime rate in America is so low, Because many people own guns. As a felon if he/she is unaware they target people whom are unarmed. This is why England has possibly the third highest crime rate in the world. Poor poms have no weapons, easy prey for their scum.
“When all about you have lost their heads and you remain calm, perhaps you do not understand the problem”.
Per ardua ad astra.
User avatar
cavok
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 583
Victoria

Re: BBC Panorama - Americas. Gun. Addiction.

Post by cavok » 09 Dec 2014, 1:23 pm

An addendum to my above post: The news item article I used in my submission to the recent Senate enquiry which was due on 2 December. The report is now due in March 2015, this is there second extension and there appears to be no explanation provided by the Senate,? Most strange. The original article published in 2009 made fascinating reading, seeing as they have banned everything almost down to Fish and Chips.

"The most violent country in Europe: Britain is also worse than South Africa and U.S. By James Slack
Updated: 09:14 AEST, 3 July 2009
Britain's violent crime record is worse than any other country in the European Union, it has been revealed. Official crime figures show the UK also has a worse rate for all types of violence than the U.S. and even South Africa - widely considered one of the world's most dangerous countries. The figures comes on the day new Home Secretary Alan Johnson makes his first major speech on crime, promising to be tough on loutish behaviour. Britain has an even worse violence rate than South Africa. The Tories said Labor had presided over a decade of spiralling violence. In the decade following the party's election in 1997, the number of recorded violent attacks soared by 77 per cent to 1.158million - or more than two every minute.
The figures, compiled from reports released by the European Commission and United Nations, also show:
• The UK has the second highest overall crime rate in the EU.
• It has a higher homicide rate than most of our western European neighbours, including France, Germany, Italy and Spain.
• The UK has the fifth highest robbery rate in the EU.
• It has the fourth highest burglary rate and the highest absolute number of burglaries in the EU, with double the number of offences than recorded in Germany and France.
But it is the naming of Britain as the most violent country in the EU that is most shocking. The analysis is based on the number of crimes per 100,000 residents. In the UK, there are 2,034 offences per 100,000 people, way ahead of second-placed Austria with a rate of 1,677. "
“When all about you have lost their heads and you remain calm, perhaps you do not understand the problem”.
Per ardua ad astra.
User avatar
cavok
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 583
Victoria

Re: BBC Panorama - Americas. Gun. Addiction.

Post by jackles » 09 Dec 2014, 1:36 pm

cavok wrote:This is why England has possibly the third highest crime rate in the world.


I reckon they're just pissed about there being 20 cameras every block and are acting out :lol:

I'd get the s**ts being watched 24/7/365 everywhere I go.
32-20 Winchester 9422
.22LR Remington Model 5
.308 Remington 700
Coming soon... 17HMR
User avatar
jackles
Private
Private
 
Posts: 73
Queensland

Re: BBC.Panorama.2013.Americas.Gun.Addiction.

Post by saucy » 09 Dec 2014, 1:39 pm

Rayder44 wrote:You guys have FAR more firearms in circulation and when you realise that so many Americans have guns, it's surprising that the crime rate is so low.


Low? Is that the case?

I can't quote any figures but I'm sure I've seen numbers from the worse parts of the countries there figures were very high for various types of crime?
Sako L46 222 Remington
Savage 112 300 Winchester Magnum
Winchester 1886 45-70 (Goes here when I win the lottery :( )
saucy
Recruit
Recruit
 
Posts: 40
New South Wales

Re: BBC.Panorama.2013.Americas.Gun.Addiction.

Post by cavok » 09 Dec 2014, 2:47 pm

If you look at these figures from my previous post, the violent crime rates are most interesting. America appears to have a lesser violent crime rate than many countries. Note it is violent crime, so we need to look at what countries call violent perhaps?

""The U.S. has a violence rate of 466 crimes per 100,000 residents, Canada 935, Australia 92, and South Africa 1,609.
Shadow Home Secretary Chris Grayling said: 'This is a damning indictment of this government's comprehensive failure over more than a decade to tackle the deep rooted social problems in our society, and the knock on effect on crime and anti-social behaviour.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z36lL8dPch""
“When all about you have lost their heads and you remain calm, perhaps you do not understand the problem”.
Per ardua ad astra.
User avatar
cavok
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 583
Victoria

Re: BBC Panorama - Americas. Gun. Addiction.

Post by saucy » 10 Dec 2014, 12:15 pm

It would be interested to see the specific crimes as part of those numbers rather than the total.

e.g. I see the homicide rate for the UK is low while the burglary rate is very high. But they don't give these specifics for the US, Canada etc.

I'm surprised to see Canada double the US, but I suspect it's to do with the above.

You'd rather have 935 burglaries than 466 murders for example. (Not suggesting those numbers are at all accurate or likely, but you get the idea).

Maybe the figures I'm remembering where specifically for murder, not violent crime as a whole or something.

More research required on my end I guess.
Sako L46 222 Remington
Savage 112 300 Winchester Magnum
Winchester 1886 45-70 (Goes here when I win the lottery :( )
saucy
Recruit
Recruit
 
Posts: 40
New South Wales

Re: BBC.Panorama.2013.Americas.Gun.Addiction.

Post by Pennsylvania Yank » 19 Dec 2014, 11:00 pm

Mich wrote:I did say they can get them other ways... I then said, and my points was, at the moment they can buy one as easily as a pack of cigarettes at any corner store.

I don't have all the solutions, but that goes beyond 'making it easy' for them to get there hands on them. That's a facility for them to have an endless supply.

And to point out an obvious flaw... Saying "universal background checks have been tried and don't work" makes no sense when we've just established people don't have to go through them. Of course they don't work when people can choose to by from a venue that requires a check, or one that does not.

I think a check for criminal convictions is reasonable. Dealers could do them on the spot, gunshow organisers could arrange it as part of shows.

I'm not a fool, I realise a background check won't solve gun crime but I think a check before sale is reasonable and would reduce the problem by some degree without unnecessarily inconveniencing law abiding citizens like ourselves. I can wait 2 minutes for a dealer to type my name into his computer.

That's my personal opinion.


The problem with allowing so-called "universal background checks" is that we have an entire political class in this country who would try to exploit the process in order to further restrict and eliminate gun ownership.

The challenge for them is not reducing the number of criminals who obtain guns, it is establishing a database of gun owners and the full registration of legally owned guns. Once this is accomplished, an infinite number of restrictions and bans can be implemented via future legislation and/or by regulatory edicts. Then it's "Mr and Mrs America turn them all in or else face felony charges because we know what guns you have and where you have them".

Anyone who thinks the left's efforts to "strengthen" our background check system is about reducing illegal gun purchases and possession is off their rocker.
Pennsylvania Yank
Private
Private
 
Posts: 68
United States of America

Re: BBC Panorama - Americas. Gun. Addiction.

Post by Mich » 21 Dec 2014, 5:30 pm

I'm sure there is some truth to that too.

I don't know PY... If I had all the answers I'd share them :|
User avatar
Mich
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 221
United States of America


Back to top
 
Return to Media and politics