Martin Place Terrorist did NOT hold Firearms licence

[1290]

I could care less how the beast that are bred for our FOOD are slaughtered, as long as hygiene is maintained

What I do care about is the hypocrisy; we are ABSOLUTELY UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES allowed to kill the animals without stunning......

buuuuuuuuuuuuuut maybe we could make some exceptions....

Similar to the Victorian law that we ABSOLUTELY UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES allowed to carry a knife.....

buuuuuuuuuuuuuut maybe we could make some exceptions....like for Sikhs.. Nothing against Sikhs, but the one rule for some, different for others because they are a minority or to be politically correct... is plain wrong. If a Sikh is permitted to carry a 1 metre long knife! why cant I carry a 3inch folding knife to cut my fruit????

[Point223]

Cavok Didnt you post earlier stating: "I know of no others that slaughter animals so inhumanely"

Ever heard of Kosher??

And that article you googled to back your point works against you..

"For cattle, stunning is still required but this occurs immediately after the throat is cut. Two separate slaughtermen must be present: one to perform the cut (which must sever both the carotid arteries and jugular veins) and one to perform the stunning.
For sheep, stunning is not required except where the animal is distressed or does not rapidly lose consciousness, in which case they must be immediately stunned.
The requirements for cattle and sheep are different because cattle take longer than sheep to lose consciousness as they have an extra blood supply to the brain at the back of the neck running along the vertebrae.

All Halal slaughter of chickens in Australia includes prior stunning."

Cattle is stunned... As the throat gets cut
Chicken gets stunned
Sheep gets stunned if distressed.

And these aren't all halal slaughterhouses by the way, these are the few halal slaughterhouses that are exempt and not all of them are the same.

[ex_reven]

I feel this thread has gone waaaay off topic now lol

[cavok]

Totally agree, I'm out. Must be a reason why it went that far, lucky it's a new year. Think I might avoid some areas, to many land mines.

[anthillinside]

Totally agree, I'm out. Must be a reason why it went that far, lucky it's a new year. Think I might avoid some areas, to many land mines.

Yeah but some has to clear them.
Keep it up, I admire your tenacity.

[brett1868]

I'm having a case of deja vu here....didn't some other thread deal with all the killing of food stuff? I think the mods cleaned that one up and this is heading in a similar direction.

The big questions on this Martin Place deal are:-
1. Why have no hostages come forward to cash in on their experience?
2. Why did it take 90 shots to take down the gunman?
3. When will the full report be made public?

[Westy]

Hey Brett do you think the State police have put a gag order on what happened??? LOL!!!! I reckon something went cluster f*** in that show down myself!!!!Didn't you have people on the inside at the Lindt Café ???? Well it was always going to end bad as it IMHO dragged on for way to long !!! Sadly the innocent are always the victims in Terrorist attacks.... this includes the police and others involved, dropping the hammer on any human life isn't a easy thing to do but if the 90 shots number is true then that's about 89 to many In my book!!!!! the only other question I have is what the f*** are we feeding and training police dogs for then

[1290]

......well, very quickly a shot gun pellet was blamed for one of the death.... thennnnnnn they werent so sure. coullllllld have been a BULLET, say a 224 diameter bullet!!!

oh... very quiet now

[anthillinside]

The big questions on this Martin Place deal are:-
1. Why have no hostages come forward to cash in on their experience?
Mayne because all the media personalities are on holiday
More likley is they and te media havebeen told to keep their mouths shut untill after #3
2. Why did it take 90 shots to take down the gunman?
You know you've got to empty your mag before a cease fire
3. When will the full report be made public?
When they have come up with some "recomendations" that the govt. spin to their own advantage and/or point the finger away from all the failings raised here

On a ore serious note, I can't remember the Media dropping such a dramatic event so fast.
I really do wonder why.

[brett1868]

Hey Brett do you think the State police have put a gag order on what happened??? LOL!!!! I reckon something went cluster f*** in that show down myself!!!!Didn't you have people on the inside at the Lindt Café ???? Well it was always going to end bad as it IMHO dragged on for way to long !!! Sadly the innocent are always the victims in Terrorist attacks.... this includes the police and others involved, dropping the hammer on any human life isn't a easy thing to do but if the 90 shots number is true then that's about 89 to many In my book!!!!! the only other question I have is what the f*** are we feeding and training police dogs for then

Our 4 guys haven't returned to work as yet and I'm not sure if they'll return anytime soon. I suspect that the police have slapped a gag order on the hostages to prevent them going public for fear of being charged with obstruction and forfeiture of any money paid for their story. Watch that 90 number, I think you'll find it's fairly accurate and justifying it will take some serious spin. Sending the dog in wasn't an option as in the confusion there was no guarantee it would attack the correct person and it would have ruled out the use of flash bangs. The media are regulated by government regulations and I suspect are under orders to go silent on the matter. I suspect we'll be drip fed fragments of truth in such a way so as not to enrage the general public into wanting the governments head on a plate.

[cavok]

Not sure I want to say anything more, the topic of what etc should be left alone, for reasons stated above.

[Westy]

Hey Brett do you think the State police have put a gag order on what happened??? LOL!!!! I reckon something went cluster f*** in that show down myself!!!!Didn't you have people on the inside at the Lindt Café ???? Well it was always going to end bad as it IMHO dragged on for way to long !!! Sadly the innocent are always the victims in Terrorist attacks.... this includes the police and others involved, dropping the hammer on any human life isn't a easy thing to do but if the 90 shots number is true then that's about 89 to many In my book!!!!! the only other question I have is what the f*** are we feeding and training police dogs for then

Our 4 guys haven't returned to work as yet and I'm not sure if they'll return anytime soon. I suspect that the police have slapped a gag order on the hostages to prevent them going public for fear of being charged with obstruction and forfeiture of any money paid for their story. Watch that 90 number, I think you'll find it's fairly accurate and justifying it will take some serious spin. Sending the dog in wasn't an option as in the confusion there was no guarantee it would attack the correct person and it would have ruled out the use of flash bangs. The media are regulated by government regulations and I suspect are under orders to go silent on the matter. I suspect we'll be drip fed fragments of truth in such a way so as not to enrage the general public into wanting the governments head on a plate.

Personally I'd rather be bitten by a Copper than shot by one!!! Flash Bang is as good as useless in most instances maybe they had some with best before dates on them????? Hope your collages are all doing well although it would have been very traumatic for them and I hope they recover soon from this shameful ordeal. !!!! as for the cops wouldn't like to put my hand up foir that gig on that day, dammed if you do-- dammed if you didn't. Poor Bastards

[brett1868]

I'm starting to suspect there's a massive team of solicitor's thrashing out compensation and non-disclosure agreements between NSW police and the hostages. No names have been released of those there at the end (That lived) so the Police have an edge in keeping a lid on it providing the price is right. I'm also curious as to the media effectively killing the story.

[1290]

and it wouldnt surprise me if the NSW gub has already $settled$ with the 2 victims families....

[bigfellascott]

I'm having a case of deja vu here....didn't some other thread deal with all the killing of food stuff? I think the mods cleaned that one up and this is heading in a similar direction.

The big questions on this Martin Place deal are:-
1. Why have no hostages come forward to cash in on their experience?
2. Why did it take 90 shots to take down the gunman?
3. When will the full report be made public?

Where did you get the 90 shots fired from Brett? I haven't heard the number mentioned until now.

[brett1868]

Where did you get the 90 shots fired from Brett? I haven't heard the number mentioned until now.

Came from a friend of mine who's generally reliable on these types of things.

[1290]

I'm having a case of deja vu here....didn't some other thread deal with all the killing of food stuff? I think the mods cleaned that one up and this is heading in a similar direction.

The big questions on this Martin Place deal are:-
1. Why have no hostages come forward to cash in on their experience?
2. Why did it take 90 shots to take down the gunman?
3. When will the full report be made public?

Where did you get the 90 shots fired from Brett? I haven't heard the number mentioned until now.

........First 3 blokes went in...3 mags-worth of 30rounds??

[Westy]

90,s a hell of a lot but being human like myself I guess they were a little up tight and kept pulling the trigger till it went click!!!!Bloody mess all around this effort,and lets be clear if some asshole could have just controlled himself this would have never happened!!!Bloody shame that's all!!!!!!

[brett1868]

Heard a small update on this topic this morning, apparently there's now a possibility that the dead female was stuck by a police bullet. No mention of where she was struck or if it was the wound that eventually killed her. That little titbit was mentioned very quickly at the end of the update....hmmmm. The S.O.P for the TRG in hostage situations is "Contain and Negotiate", the only justification for direct action is only if hostages were being shot. I'm sure we'll be drip fed all the details slowly in time....

[Baronvonrort]

Heard a small update on this topic this morning, apparently there's now a possibility that the dead female was stuck by a police bullet. No mention of where she was struck or if it was the wound that eventually killed her. That little titbit was mentioned very quickly at the end of the update....hmmmm.

From what I understand the autopsy report hasn't been released yet,i think I will wait for that.

A hostage friend who was pregnant and a co worker said Mrs Dawson shielded her from Monis.

Islamic fundamentalists rarely surrender being martyred is what they seek, I think we were lucky to have only 2 killed,perhaps the rules of engagement need to be changed to allow Police to shoot first in hostage situations.

My view is if you hold people hostage at gunpoint then don't whinge to me if the Police shoot you.

[cooker]

My view is if you hold people hostage at gunpoint then don't whinge to me if the Police shoot you.

Agreed.

Personally I can't understand why they give these guys the room, time and benefits they do.

If it's 1 guy only holding hostages with a firearm and a Police sniper has a view on him... Seems like a solution presenting itself to me.

It would be a different story if there we multiple hostages takes, but if it's a matter of dropping one and being done it it. Do it IMO.

[Point223]

It's never this simple..

There's no telling if it's one hostage taker or many.. The police always think worse case scenario and proceed from that assumption. They did what they could and they did it well.

[cooker]

I'll let Baron speak for himself, but I'm not talking about the Sydney incident there specifically. I believe Baron was speaking generally towards the end too.

I'm saying as a general principle.... If a single gunman takes a group hostage I don't think it's unreasonable for the Police to shoot them to end the danger to the hostages immediately instead of letting it drag on and give more time and changes to the gunman shooting a hostage. I say he's voided any rights in doing what he's doing.

From what I've read/seen/heard in the media it seems like the Martin Place incident matches that scenario, but if I've missed something then fair enough to act differently.

Just a personal opinion here in any case.