Martin Place Terrorist did NOT hold Firearms licence

[disco2]

Sorry to start a new topic, on this horrible event, however I though it may get lost in the 'Sydney Siege' one.

It was reported on the Queensland news - Channel 10 News at 5 this afternoon that, 'Breaking News - the NSW police have stated that the information that the Prime Minister -Tony Abbot - has given is incorrect'.

They (NSW Police) have searched the records and can find no evidence that the gunman held a legal firearms licence.

Then things went strange, The reporter stumbled and stammered and the station went to an ad break.

When they came back there was no mention of that story again.

So, if the information can be proven, then it should be shouted from the roof tops.

I'd not like to think that Channel 10 was trying to conceal information.

Cheers

Disco

[cavok]

Thanks for that fantastic update, and lets push to have it confirmed till the cows come home. You still have the best avatar, great choice.

[disco2]

Thanks,

Yeah , if we can spread this message to as many other Forums as possible, we may achieve two things-
1. Get it confirmed, and
2. Get every other law abiding licenced firearms owner to put a stop to any of the 'get rid of guns' rubbish that may be put out by the anti mobs.

Can always complain to your local MP and to the Australian Press Council if the media keeps repeating 'mis- information'.

I've sent the same information to the Shooters and Fishers Party.

I hope the news is true, but we have to be on the front foot with this one or we will get hammered (again). And I for one am sick of the anti mobs spreading lies.

Cheers

Disco

[sbd3927]

It was also stated on 7pm news ABC radio, NSW Police stated gunman had never held a firearms licence in NSW. There are also some ABC articles online.

[Noisydad]

News on commercial radio (Thursday morning) is STILL saying he did have one but then we shouldn't expect anything else from them!

[bluerob]

Just saw an example of misleading media on Ch 7 Sydney concerning "private citizens carrying firearms for self protection" without one sensible comment being made,

1. "We don't want to go back to the future." Don't know what he meant by that.
2. "Lunatics walking the streets armed to the teeth."
3. "Do we want A Shoot Out in the Ok Corral."
4. Some crap about Martin Bryant.......

I would've thought that if you are allowed to carry a concealed firearm (as in certain US states), a certain level of training is required.

I know that I would feel a lot safer wandering Sydney streets for my doctors appointments knowing that there were trained citizens carrying a concealed firearm.

I'm disabled and can't do what normal people might be able to do, like run away or bolt for an open door. I'd be the one trying to belt a crim with my walking sticks!

Before people have a caniption, where I live Police don't always get to you in 2 mins and Australia has changed enormously in the last 40 years and not for the better.

I fully support trained citizens carrying in this day and age.

[Point223]

Was he or was he not licensed?

[bigfellascott]

Was he or was he not licensed?

According to police - NO!

[Point223]

That's all that matters! Police can prove it! PM can put a sock in it!

[RoginaJack]

How in hell's name would he be fit to hold a Weapons Licence?

He had a "Mental Condition" , as stated by his solicitor and a charge sheet as long as a toilet roll plus out on bail for other serious charges AND the weapon was reported as "a cut down pump action shotgun"! Aren't they on the Illegal list and banned?

[Point223]

If police say he didn't have a license then he didn't. End of argument. All the PM did was prove himself to be a dickwad with lots of misinformation and a nice stab at us LAFO and gave the greens and anti gun lobby some ammo to be used against US!

[Guliver]

Lindt Cafe gunman Man Haron Monis didn’t hold a firearm licence, AFP now confirm

http://www.news.com.au/national/lindt-c ... 7160499931

THE Federal Police has confirmed Lindt cafe gunman Man Haron Monis did not have a registered firearms licence, admitting their advice to Tony Abbott was wrong
In a statement, the AFP said it provided a brief to the Prime Minister on Tuesday.
But “the AFP has since confirmed that Mr Monis was not a registered firearms licence holder,” it said.
“NSW Police have since confirmed that there is no record of Mr Monis ever having held a firearms licence.

[cavok]

To a post way up above, the Prime Minister Mr. Tony Abbott does not have to put a sock in it. He has nothing to answer for, all he did in in statements was speak regarding a licenced shooter, as per the INFORMATION given to him by various police sources. If that information was wrong, this has been corrected and Mr Abbott was advised according to posts here. hence Mr Abbott will still call for an enquiry and we as licenced shooters have nothing to fear. See recent senate enquiry.

[RoginaJack]

No doubt all of Australia and a lot of the rest of the world watched, horrified at the Martin Place Siege and one thing that stunned me was the amount of "Experts" from various University's that the media dug up for comment . We listened to Experts from just about any field one could think of.

Well, here's another one - From SKY.News.com.au

BAIRD SAYS CALLS TO RELAX GUN LAWS 'WRONG'
Updated: 12:06 pm, Thursday, 18 December 2014

Gun control expert Philip Alpers, from the University of Sydney, said.......

Can anyone explain to me WTF is a "GUN CONTROL EXPERT", other than the obvious.

My suggestion to the PM Tony Abbott is to look into all these so called university experts and get them out of university heaven and hit the ground running. We appear to be over run by experts on everything!

OK rant over.

[Point223]

To a post way up above, the Prime Minister Mr. Tony Abbott does not have to put a sock in it. He has nothing to answer for, all he did in in statements was speak regarding a licenced shooter, as per the INFORMATION given to him by various police sources. If that information was wrong, this has been corrected and Mr Abbott was advised according to posts here. hence Mr Abbott will still call for an enquiry and we as licenced shooters have nothing to fear. See recent senate enquiry.

The Prime Minister Mr Lord of All human beings Master of Universe His Highness the Worshipful Tony Motherf#$3in Abbot all praises be sung should make sure the information he's recieving are correct before walking to a podium to give a speech about something as serious as 2 people dying at the hands of a lunatic don't you think?

[1290]

The initial advice to Abbott from the Feds was, as I understand, that there was an entry in the national database, whether entry means that he HAD a licence, which his interview record states...or he has a licence..... only a NSWPol or NSWPol+Crimtrac statement can clarify.

Its also said that he was a security guard, if so then then would be an entry, his name added to a corporate licence....its all speculation, thats what the media thrives on....

And Tony Abbott is the representative of the cabinet, such an individual is chosen at the whim of a very select few....reprsentative of the elected members of parliament. He speaks for parliament. His national leadership role is a fantasy, perpetuated by you, and you and even you... along with a good dose of media manipulation thrown in... He is to be respected in that role, but the head of state he is not.
Please someone produce a law that creates the role of prime minister.....I'll wait.

[Seconds]

If police say he didn't have a license then he didn't. End of argument. All the PM did was prove himself to be a dickwad with lots of misinformation and a nice stab at us LAFO and gave the greens and anti gun lobby some ammo to be used against US!

NSW Pol have been crystal clear on that and he's still going with in

Obviously makes a good sound bite for him to get some attention.

[trekin]

To a post way up above, the Prime Minister Mr. Tony Abbott does not have to put a sock in it. He has nothing to answer for, all he did in in statements was speak regarding a licenced shooter, as per the INFORMATION given to him by various police sources. If that information was wrong, this has been corrected and Mr Abbott was advised according to posts here. hence Mr Abbott will still call for an enquiry and we as licenced shooters have nothing to fear. See recent senate enquiry.

Long time lurker, first time poster yada.. yada.. To cavok and all those who think like wise, do not be fooled. The Senate inquiry has not handed down it's findings yet, and will not until next year sometime, and the first rule all Senators are taught is "You don't call for one unless you pretty much know what the outcome will be."
We all come to these forums to seek advice from the older, wiser or more experienced shooters out there, and from what I have seen as a long time lurker is that, most of these 'blokes' advising as to what fallout that we LAFO's can expect, were there back in '96/'97. Heed their advice, as they have first hand experience, and remember this, all the naysayers, deniers and quislings from back then were proven wrong, and these 'blokes' (the ones mentioned above, and not the naysayers, deniers and quislings from back then) are still here to pass on their experience.

[cavok]

To a post way up above, the Prime Minister Mr. Tony Abbott does not have to put a sock in it. He has nothing to answer for, all he did in in statements was speak regarding a licenced shooter, as per the INFORMATION given to him by various police sources. If that information was wrong, this has been corrected and Mr Abbott was advised according to posts here. hence Mr Abbott will still call for an enquiry and we as licenced shooters have nothing to fear. See recent senate enquiry.

Long time lurker, first time poster yada.. yada.. To cavok and all those who think like wise, do not be fooled. The Senate inquiry has not handed down it's findings yet, and will not until next year sometime, and the first rule all Senators are taught is "You don't call for one unless you pretty much know what the outcome will be."
We all come to these forums to seek advice from the older, wiser or more experienced shooters out there, and from what I have seen as a long time lurker is that, most of these 'blokes' advising as to what fallout that we LAFO's can expect, were there back in '96/'97. Heed their advice, as they have first hand experience, and remember this, all the naysayers, deniers and quislings from back then were proven wrong, and these 'blokes' (the ones mentioned above, and not the naysayers, deniers and quislings from back then) are still here to pass on their experience.

Welcome to the forum and hope you contribute more, all posts have a story to tell, we all hold views. I have read every one of the 410 + submissions to the senate, my submission is in the first 10 listed. There are experts and the average Joe who have made their vies known, glad to say only 3 nay sayers in submissions. If I was prime minister who was having a rotten year, he has annoyed everyone, I also would hold an enquiry into the Martin Place shooting, just as a diversion so the public can see him doing something constructive. Lets not all loose hope, and from memory the Senate is handing down their findings early March. Be well and shoot straight.

[Guliver]

A hint for Mr. Abbott, "when in doubt say nought"

[cavok]

A hint for Mr. Abbott, "when in doubt say nought"

Mr Abbot was given incorrect information by authorities whom he believed. Mr Abbott cannot actually check out anything, he would not be allowed access to our files, hence he relies on officials whom for whatever reason gave him incorrect information. Hence again he was badly advised, hence he made the remarks he did. He was advised, hence there was at that time he spoke NO doubt.

[Point223]

A hint for Mr. Abbott, "when in doubt say nought"

Couldn't have said it better! A politician should know!

[Baronvonrort]

Long time lurker, first time poster yada.. yada.. To cavok and all those who think like wise, do not be fooled. The Senate inquiry has not handed down it's findings yet, and will not until next year sometime, and the first rule all Senators are taught is "You don't call for one unless you pretty much know what the outcome will be."
We all come to these forums to seek advice from the older, wiser or more experienced shooters out there, and from what I have seen as a long time lurker is that, most of these 'blokes' advising as to what fallout that we LAFO's can expect, were there back in '96/'97. Heed their advice, as they have first hand experience, and remember this, all the naysayers, deniers and quislings from back then were proven wrong, and these 'blokes' (the ones mentioned above, and not the naysayers, deniers and quislings from back then) are still here to pass on their experience.

I am not worried about the senate inquiry, there is a link to the transcripts in this forum,Sen David Leyonhjelm has won pistol shooting comps and had to hand in his AR15 and FNFAL back in 1996,he is a Vet,Lawyer and has a masters in business administration, there is also a female senator who is involved I forgot her name she has a firearm licence,the transcripts will reveal her identity.
Shooters are represented on the senate panel,Dr Samara McPhedran gave excellent evidence as did many others.

Not many were on the internet back in 96, today we are far more united to fight the idiots with their buzzwords and one liners that have no real substance when examined properly.

[Baronvonrort]

In political forums I visit the vibe is more of Tony has been caught yet again telling lies.

He stays with the AFP when in Canberra, I wonder if they are taking the rap for him with more funding as a reward.

[RoginaJack]

When the Prime Minister, President or Head of a country requests basic information about a citizen and it's supplied "from the National Registry and based on a hand written entry" that proves to be totally inaccurate, does this show -
a) The National Registry is not worth the paper it's written on
b) There is no liaison between the States and Federal agencies
c) The information as supplied by the States cannot be relied on
d) The information in the States Registry is inaccurate
e) The personal charged with keeping and maintaining the registery could be better employed elsewhere.
OR
f) ALL OF THE ABOVE.

Scary, isn't it?

[cavok]

Probably none of the above, what could have happened is that the "idiot" who held the hostages was a security guard some years ago, his name could have been on some security register, which in haste by authorities could have shown up as being a licenced gun owner, hence as people where trying to provide out Prime Minister with quick ownership details, someone forgot to double/triple check facts, or miss read an entry, hence Mr Abbott was provided with wrong information. Mr Abbott even as prime minister is not privy to our records, he relied on wrong information, NOT his fault, let him alone, better than any Labor minister, who would have been given exactly the same wrong information.

[Seconds]

what could have happened is that the "idiot" who held the hostages was a security guard some years ago, his name could have been on some security register, which in haste by authorities could have shown up as being a licenced gun owner, hence as people where trying to provide out Prime Minister with quick ownership details, someone forgot to double/triple check facts, or miss read an entry, hence Mr Abbott was provided with wrong information.

That's not much of a justification IMO.

"We only got it wrong because we were in a rush"

Not much of a business philosophy for the people who are supposed to be running out states and countries.

Act in haste repent at leisure.

[cavok]

That's not much of a justification IMO.

"We only got it wrong because we were in a rush"

Not much of a business philosophy for the people who are supposed to be running out states and countries.

Act in haste repent at leisure.

Sorry, I can't follow your logic, Mr Abbott was given the wrong information by the authorities, no haste, just wrong information. It was not the first time a person provides wrong or misleading information to a politician for reason best known to themselves. Do no blame Mr Abbott for the errors of the authorities.

Just remember Mr Abbott does not have access to OUR records himself, HE relies on facts. Hence cast stones at whomever provided the information, not the Prime Minister.

[Seconds]

I was talking about the government as a whole there, not saying Abbot directly. (Could have been clearer, my bad)

My point (vent?) was more that everyone's scrambling all over this thing and as with every gun-related story in the media there is misinformation and assumptions being told as fact left, right and centre by people who don't know what they're talking about.

Surely between the AFP, NSW firearms registry and Prime ministers office they should be able to find out if 1 person had a license, or in this case didn't.

If that's too complex a puzzle for our government to solve we're in trouble.

[sbd3927]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-18/a ... ce/5976112

AFP officially blamed for Abbots big mouth.

However I find it hard to believe the AFP would state something as a concrete fact without being certain it was accurate.

I find it far easier to think a politician opened his mouth too far, and in an attempt to regain credibility (which he never had) has chosen AFP as a scapegoat.

I wonder if that counts as a feral goat problem, Canberra is full of scapegoats