Shooting accident at Little River

[anthillinside]

Just saw the guy that got hit on channel 7 news, he's fine, not blowing it up.

Projectile didn't penetrate, even the press isn't trying to make a big deal out of it (yet)

So Range open, little flak, an incident to remind us to "play safe"

Perhaps 2015 will be a very good year.

[1290]

Let them try to run with an angle on this incident.... target shooting is still one of the safest sports around..... I always think back to a footy match in an eastern league where a 25yo dropped dead of a heart attack. Would never happen at the range unless the guy was about at the other end agewise....

[Oldbloke]

http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf ... =atalities,

Ha, try horse riding and fishing/boating and lets not forget cyclists and surgical errors.

[anthillinside]

Ah yes, the ABS. the pinicle of the bean counters art.
Dont you just love some of the category descriptions?

Deaths due to Other ill-defined and unspecified cause of mortality (R99) accounted for 567 deaths, or 58.3% of all deaths due to Ill-defined causes.

In other words "Stuffed if I know"

[veep]

Im puzzled why worksafe is involved. Perhaps it was an employee that was hit?
I will have a look at the worksafe powers under the act.

They are tied into shooting though aren't they... Powder storage for example is covered under Worksafe regs not firearms acts I'm pretty sure?

Something similar for operating a range no doubt.

[huccl]

Projectile didn't penetrate, even the press isn't trying to make a big deal out of it (yet)

They needed a bit of blood so they could blow it out of proportion.

They must be sad they missed out

[1290]

Im puzzled why worksafe is involved. Perhaps it was an employee that was hit?
I will have a look at the worksafe powers under the act.

They are tied into shooting though aren't they... Powder storage for example is covered under Worksafe regs not firearms acts I'm pretty sure?

Something similar for operating a range no doubt.

only from the workplace perspective.... else Vicpol are responsible for approving the range, and therefore enforcing any potential non-compliance with the ongoing operation.

[1886]

Interesting.

Are there any actual EMPLOYEES being paid a wage at this range ?

If not, how can it be a workplace.

[Westy]

Interesting.

Are there any actual EMPLOYEES being paid a wage at this range ?

If not, how can it be a workplace.

Well people are working there right????? That would make it a workplace in my Book???

[cavok]

Interesting.

Are there any actual EMPLOYEES being paid a wage at this range ?

If not, how can it be a workplace.

There certainly is, they have a manger who is terrific, and several office staff at the range every day they are open, it is a very professional setup. A huge office where all manner of material can be purchased, primers, ammunition, all manner of loading material in great quantities. Also every person entering the range must register, pay the SSAA fees, if shooting. A huge coffee shop, lunch etc. Note there are approximately 80 rifle shooting positions, al undercover, with benches at every position. A secondary rifle range, then 21 pistol ranges to the right of the main range. Then shotgun ect.

[ex_reven]

Interesting.

Are there any actual EMPLOYEES being paid a wage at this range ?

If not, how can it be a workplace.

WHS/OHS applies everywhere.
If people are attending a range - even if they are not paying - the range has expectations to provide a safe environment.

At our range we make a point that all visitors, even if they are not shooting to sign in.
For example if I go out there to do some range improvements, we sign in prior to starting work - this ensures we have a paper trail for insurance purposes should anyone be injured etc

[1886]

Interesting.

Are there any actual EMPLOYEES being paid a wage at this range ?

If not, how can it be a workplace.

WHS/OHS applies everywhere.
.............................................................

OK Cavok has answered the question in the affirmative as there are employees present but it still seems a bit odd they are involved in a sporting situation that didn't involve an employee.

But are you sure it applies everywhere as not every range or sport has employees, only volunteers etc and its a sport not your occupation.

Otherwise, every accident in every sport would require investigation by OHS and surely that doesn't happen in NSW.

Our Occupational Safety and Heath Act is precisely that. It only applies to work environments.

[cavok]

Interesting.

Are there any actual EMPLOYEES being paid a wage at this range ?

If not, how can it be a workplace.

WHS/OHS applies everywhere.
.............................................................

OK Cavok has answered the question in the affirmative as there are employees present but it still seems a bit odd they are involved in a sporting situation that didn't involve an employee.

But are you sure it applies everywhere as not every range or sport has employees, only volunteers etc and its a sport not your occupation.

Otherwise, every accident in every sport would require investigation by OHS and surely that doesn't happen in NSW.

Our Occupational Safety and Heath Act is precisely that. It only applies to work environments.

From very reliable range information, the person injured was a friend of the shooter who was participating in the rifle shooting, sitting I am advised and he sat behind the shooter, a ricocheted. Not an employee or other paid person, just an unfortunate spectator, who from all counts is very with a bruise to the stomach area, the round DID NOT penetrate. The incident was handled by the manager and his organisation of trained personnel who dealt with the incident etc.

[ex_reven]

Our Occupational Safety and Heath Act is precisely that. It only applies to work environments.

If the shooting range meets the criteria for being classified as a PCBU then volunteers are included as workers under the legislation - regardless of whether they are paid or reimbursed.

A variety of entities can be PCBU's, even not for profit organisations. So it depends on how the range is structured.

[Oldbloke]

"Our Occupational Safety and Heath Act is precisely that. It only applies to work environments" close but not 100%. It also applies to business, companies etc when it comes to "other persons" in Section 23 of the Vic Act. In real life this usually means visitors or members of the public. Common examples of this part of the act being implemented would be pedestrian controls along a footpath beside a construction site. Or visitors sign into a company factory so that if there is an evacuation due to fire the visitors can be accounted for. It would also cover the volunteers. The Act is close to identical in all states now because the WHS act was a 95% copy paste of the Victorian OHS act. So should now apply in all jurisdictions that have signed up to the new WHS (WA & Vic are an exception at this stage) My guess is that the guy who collects the money is a part time employee. & that would be enough.

See attached sec 3 of the Vic OHS act

S 23.JPG (93.26 KiB) Viewed 6419 times

[1886]

Cheers for that.

There must still be some "exemptions" as such even in NSW as one dangerous sport that comes to mind and is in NSW is the Bathurst race

All team members are "employees" of the team and the drivers are employed under contract and paid well and they HAVE to all race at Bathurst and everywhere else.

There was a zillion bad crashes this year and previously etc but the race is NEVER stopped on the first crash of an "employee" until OHS investigate and this would include fires that have burnt mechanics and accidents etc in the pits. There's no way racing at Bathurst could be classified as a complete safe working environment under the OHS.

In these scenarios no team owner could meet all the OHS requirements in relation to its employees or drivers so I guess even in NSW exemptions must apply somehow.

Thus, to me it still does appear odd that OHS decided to stick their nose in at Little Creek and maybe its just because it involved those dreaded firearms..

[Oldbloke]

Corporal, You raise a couple of good points. I believe that workcover can get involved with the car race scenario if they wish. They have been known to be involved with jockey fatalities in Vic. And it had me buggered why they never got involved with the Essendon Football debacle where they were injecting paid players with "substances" made for horses. Other examples are the death of cricket players (Phil Hughes) and rugby players that end up quadriplegics. Yet no investigations that I am aware of.
It could be because of the "dreaded firearms" , as they usually don't involved is the sporting area. But I'm not aware of any exemptions. ( I may be corrected here) S 23 certainly seems to give them the power to get involved. The act gives workcover/safe incredibly broad powers.
My best guess(es) is that decisions about what they get involved in are based on:
1 Number of inspectors available
2 Cost ( Governments can starve departments of funds and staff to achieve certain means)
3 The media
4 Priorities
5 Public perception & pressure
6 Political aims
7 Political correctness
8 I'm sure this list could be added to.

For me it is a constant source of frustration that the road toll gets a mention every night, every fatality on tv, (1291 for 2011) yet it is rare that a fatality at work gets a mention. (perhaps 1 every 4 weeks) Now 211 people died on work sites 2011 & there were 612 diagnoses of mesothelioma for 2011 reported. (by the way that is a death sentence & do not get a mention in the stats as fatalities) That does not include at least another 1000 that die early in life due to various cancers caused through work place exposure to hazardous substances. In fact few ever receive compensation. (that number is a very conservative guess) I will get of my soap box now.

[anthillinside]

Yep the decisions of any statutory body is not to be understood by us mere mortals.
Your football and cricket is a good example.
My 2c is they are both BIG business with BIG money so are left alone, until Julia wanted a massive diversion.
[3 The Media] plays a big part.
They make a lot of money out of big sport one way or another.
They also want HEADLINES,
This incident is a prime example;
First report: “Man rushed to hospital in a serious but stable condition”
End result … barley broke the skin

But then I wasn’t there so I should not be commenting but…we all do
The paramedics must have had some reason to fly him to hospital?
Perhaps taking absolutely NO chances.

Sometimes I think I should just stop thinking. I know what ever I know for certain today will be questionable tomorrow.

Shooting is so simple in comparison.

[petemacsydney]

Interesting.

Are there any actual EMPLOYEES being paid a wage at this range ?

If not, how can it be a workplace.

WHS/OHS applies everywhere.
.............................................................

OK Cavok has answered the question in the affirmative as there are employees present but it still seems a bit odd they are involved in a sporting situation that didn't involve an employee.

But are you sure it applies everywhere as not every range or sport has employees, only volunteers etc and its a sport not your occupation.

Otherwise, every accident in every sport would require investigation by OHS and surely that doesn't happen in NSW.

Our Occupational Safety and Heath Act is precisely that. It only applies to work environments.

From very reliable range information, the person injured was a friend of the shooter who was participating in the rifle shooting, sitting I am advised and he sat behind the shooter, a ricocheted. Not an employee or other paid person, just an unfortunate spectator, who from all counts is very with a bruise to the stomach area, the round DID NOT penetrate. The incident was handled by the manager and his organisation of trained personnel who dealt with the incident etc.

the bullet rico'd backwards?

[Westy]

Interesting.

Are there any actual EMPLOYEES being paid a wage at this range ?

If not, how can it be a workplace.

WHS/OHS applies everywhere.
.............................................................

OK Cavok has answered the question in the affirmative as there are employees present but it still seems a bit odd they are involved in a sporting situation that didn't involve an employee.

But are you sure it applies everywhere as not every range or sport has employees, only volunteers etc and its a sport not your occupation.

Otherwise, every accident in every sport would require investigation by OHS and surely that doesn't happen in NSW.

Our Occupational Safety and Heath Act is precisely that. It only applies to work environments.

From very reliable range information, the person injured was a friend of the shooter who was participating in the rifle shooting, sitting I am advised and he sat behind the shooter, a ricocheted. Not an employee or other paid person, just an unfortunate spectator, who from all counts is very with a bruise to the stomach area, the round DID NOT penetrate. The incident was handled by the manager and his organisation of trained personnel who dealt with the incident etc.

the bullet rico'd backwards?

It happens , normally when concrete or steel ar involved!!!!

[Westy]

Interesting.

Are there any actual EMPLOYEES being paid a wage at this range ?

If not, how can it be a workplace.

WHS/OHS applies everywhere.
.............................................................

OK Cavok has answered the question in the affirmative as there are employees present but it still seems a bit odd they are involved in a sporting situation that didn't involve an employee.

But are you sure it applies everywhere as not every range or sport has employees, only volunteers etc and its a sport not your occupation.

Otherwise, every accident in every sport would require investigation by OHS and surely that doesn't happen in NSW.

Our Occupational Safety and Heath Act is precisely that. It only applies to work environments.

From very reliable range information, the person injured was a friend of the shooter who was participating in the rifle shooting, sitting I am advised and he sat behind the shooter, a ricocheted. Not an employee or other paid person, just an unfortunate spectator, who from all counts is very with a bruise to the stomach area, the round DID NOT penetrate. The incident was handled by the manager and his organisation of trained personnel who dealt with the incident etc.

the bullet rico'd backwards?

It happens , normally when concrete or steel ar involved!!!!

[petemacsydney]

so does anyone have a detailed descript of wot happened?

[cavok]

Having been involved in shooting for some days, lol.
When shooting steel plates, or large steel targets, we use a minimum distance for engaging the steel, 9 metres. Many times spectators or fellow shooters are struck by pieces of the projectile as it strikes the steel, much the same as hitting concrete. I have many a bruise and even times when the skin was broken, all from splatter from the projectile, many shooters have, it hurts, THANK God for safety glasses, quickly one learns why we use them.

[ex_reven]

Have been on the receiving end of target splatter.
Had a steel plate out at 100m for guys to shoot rifle (was only put out with the intention of smaller calibres) another visitor fired a 22-250 at the plate.
I was standing about 15m to the right of the shooter and copped half the jacket in the ribs as part of it came back. Left a small welt and that was about it.

Pistol shooters encounter the same thing (especially IPSC), but generally you never get anything coming back with sufficient velocity to do any damage so long as you are wearing eye protection. Generally for rifle shooting if the plate is angled correctly you can control any ricochets to end up in the ground.

[anthillinside]

so does anyone have a detailed descript of wot happened?

Um ... Wait for the OHS Report

[veep]

Are there any actual EMPLOYEES being paid a wage at this range ?

If not, how can it be a workplace.

There are a few girls in the shop that do the sign and sell ammo and bits and pieces.

Same ones every single time so I'm 99% sure they're employed there.

Never spoke to the RO's about their exact status there so not sure about them.

[veep]

Generally for rifle shooting if the plate is angled correctly you can control any ricochets to end up in the ground.

At little river I know if you're shooting steel targets they have to be swinging or angled for this reason.

Maybe a fixed forward facing one slipped through un noticed.

[anthillinside]

Eagle Park Update

Dear subscriber
>>
>> Victoria Police and Worksafe Victoria have conducted an investigation in to the incident at Eagle Park where a shooter was struck by a ricochet causing a minor injury.
>>
>> There is no clear conclusion as to how the ricochet occurred or what the projectile was. As a precaution swinging targets are not approved between 0m and 300m until we seek clarification of the standards.
>>
>> Both Police and Worksafe have deemed the range safe and Police have lifted the closure notice. The range will re-open for business on Friday 2nd January. SSAA Vic will de-brief into the incident early next week specifically focusing on the post incident response. Police will attend the de-brief.

[scrolllock]

300m

So much for some freehand practice then.