Could recent events, not rights, lead to concealed carry

[Harper]

Just thinking here (maybe dreaming).

I talk shooting with the guys at work sometimes. They're non shooters, not pro or anti guns. I guess what you'd call normal moderate views that there should be some restrictions on firearms but they also have legitimate uses. Anyway that's not the topic here, just background.

So, the point of the conversation was that as a general rule concealed carry isn't a popular notion. Gun "rights" is just concept here as they're treated as a privilege. No one other than shooters is really pushing for the "rights" concept. It's either anti or indifferent.

With the various attacks, incidents etc. though the defence of citizens is getting a little lime light now though. Even if it's from a bit of an angle if you get what I mean.

One work mate joking put it to me that with all the incidents lately more people might call for CC for self defence due to there own now personal fear, not peoples rights overall. Said jokingly, but got me wondering.

It's not going to happen tomorrow but if thinks continue the way they have recently, will peoples minds change. Even if it's for self-interest and not fighting for general rights the end is largely the same.

Food for thought anyway. What do you think? Maybe in a year? 5? How long?

[Baldrick314]

I think it would take a long time and a lot of horrible events before CC would become a serious consideration here. You would have to overcome the standard Anti's as well as people who may support us owning firearms but not for self defence purposes.

Personally I think it's a hard minefield to navigate. On the one hand I think we need better options for self Defense and would love to be able to carry a firearm for self defence when I saw fit.

On the other though there is the lowest common denominator to worry about. People who through stupidity would injure themselves or other innocent parties or would misuse their firearms in anger.

If it were to become legal I think we would need serious training requirements and perhaps harsh penalties for people who abuse the privilege.

Just my 2c

[tom604]

you would need a few events to happen and a fair few die and even that wont change the pollies minds ,, now if a few events were stopped, by off duty cops or members of the public that got hold of a gun(shot cops gun?) you may get a better hearing . dont hold your breath with the antis, the only time they will change their minds would be if they were in danger and then only for the time it took for someone to save them.

[Newdave]

CC will never happen in Australia. The way things are going we will be lucky to even posses firearms in our own home in the next ten to twenty years. They are just waiting for a major tragedy involving a licensed shooter to take them away. Should be very interesting to see what the green senate inquiry comes out with. It won't be good for us that's for sure.

[Korkt]

I think it would take a long time and a lot of horrible events before CC would become a serious consideration here. You would have to overcome the standard Anti's as well as people who may support us owning firearms but not for self defence purposes.

I think said horrible events would need to start happening here in Australia for it to matter, even something that touches some of the anti's personally.

They carry on like they're working for the greater good but really they don't care about these things happening overseas and the people it effects. It's just another soap box for them to stand on.

I don't see it happening without problems flaring up here at home.

[cuvy]

I'd be happy with just the law changing to allow us to carry *anything* for self defense. Being able to carry pepper spray or a baton for self defense would be a massive change compared to the current situation (where carrying anything for self defense is strictly illegal)

[pajamatime]

I think it would take a long time and a lot of horrible events before CC would become a serious consideration here. You would have to overcome the standard Anti's as well as people who may support us owning firearms but not for self defence purposes.

Personally I think it's a hard minefield to navigate. On the one hand I think we need better options for self Defense and would love to be able to carry a firearm for self defence when I saw fit.

On the other though there is the lowest common denominator to worry about. People who through stupidity would injure themselves or other innocent parties or would misuse their firearms in anger.

If it were to become legal I think we would need serious training requirements and perhaps harsh penalties for people who abuse the privilege.

Just my 2c

I absolutely agree with the serious training and harsh penalties for misuse. I would even go as far as by law CC'ers should wear some sort of personal standard monitoring device like a Audio recorder? and for Castle law situations Video survellience if you want to excercise that right. something like that?

[Norton]

I'd be happy with just the law changing to allow us to carry *anything* for self defense. Being able to carry pepper spray or a baton for self defense would be a massive change compared to the current situation (where carrying anything for self defense is strictly illegal)

Pepper spray would be a good step forward. One in the bag for the wife/daughter.

At the moment they're supposed to carry a whistle, right? Pathetic.

[huccl]

I absolutely agree with the serious training and harsh penalties for misuse. I would even go as far as by law CC'ers should wear some sort of personal standard monitoring device like a Audio recorder? and for Castle law situations Video survellience if you want to excercise that right. something like that?

Wouldn't bother me but I'm sure the majority would rail against any kind of "surveillance" like that.

[inspector]

I think said horrible events would need to start happening here in Australia for it to matter, even something that touches some of the anti's personally.

They carry on like they're working for the greater good but really they don't care about these things happening overseas and the people it effects. It's just another soap box for them to stand on.

I don't see it happening without problems flaring up here at home.

I think that's a fair assessment.

[pajamatime]

I absolutely agree with the serious training and harsh penalties for misuse. I would even go as far as by law CC'ers should wear some sort of personal standard monitoring device like a Audio recorder? and for Castle law situations Video survellience if you want to excercise that right. something like that?

Wouldn't bother me but I'm sure the majority would rail against any kind of "surveillance" like that.

not monitored by Government but useful to help prove justified homicide or not. The biggest Concern with something like CC is the possibility that someone might use it for the wrong reasons?

[cuvy]

not monitored by Government but useful to help prove justified homicide or not. The biggest Concern with something like CC is the possibility that someone might use it for the wrong reasons?

I wonder what the stats are in the US for concealed carry permit holders using a concealed carry firearm for violent crime? Can't say I've ever heard of any reports on this (from pro or anti gun sides). Then there's non-justifiable homicides carried out by concealed carry permit holders, although that could be a bit grey.

My guess is that violent crime perpetrated by concealed carry permit holders (using their concealed firearm) would be nearly non-existent, since they would be generally responsible, trained people well aware of the repercussions. I'm sure that there would be non-justifiable homicides, but the number of clear cut cases I would think would be significantly lower than general homicide rates. Would be very interesting to see if there is any available data.

[huccl]

Not monitored by Government but useful to help prove justified homicide or not. The biggest Concern with something like CC is the possibility that someone might use it for the wrong reasons?

Not actively monitored, ok. But are you suggesting it should be legislated, or just making a suggestion for people to follow for their benefit?

Any sort of requirement to record themselves I reckon people would crack the s**ts.

[Bourt]

I'm sure that there would be non-justifiable homicides, but the number of clear cut cases I would think would be significantly lower than general homicide rates. Would be very interesting to see if there is any available data.

I don't have any data but there was that incident in Minnesota a year or so ago.

Guy was in his basement when 2 teens broke into the house, the first came to the top of the basement stairs and the owner (he claims) was worried he was armed so shot him from there with his .22 rifle. Arguably justifiable, but after the guy fell down the stairs from the first couple of shots to the chest the owner walked over and finished him off with a shot to the face.

The other burglar came to the stairs a minute later and again he shot her from there, after she fell down the stars he moved her next to her partner and then shot her under the chin to finish her.

That's a clear case (IMO) of non-justifiable homicide, as you say. Not arguing either way but there's a story/piece of information.

[ChicagoTed]

if you don't want to get shot don't break into someones house, its simple really

[Westy]

Harper hate tell you but your

http://youtu.be/dik_wnOE4dk

[Harper]

I like to be optimistic, call it hoping

[Vati]

I hate to think of the state we'd have to be in for them to allow it.

Probably need to be so bad they weren't able to stop it.

I'm thinking no.