Discussion: Shooters Lobby Groups

[Wylie27]

Hi all,

Another thread regarding the latest attempt by the police, media and politicians at coming after our firearms I suggested that we need the SSAA to be more involved like the NRA or that we have lobby groups like this.

We have the SSAA and our political team of the SFP but who else do we have? I did a quick google And found an SSAA page that lists all the anti gun lobbyists but calls itself the contact group for shooters.

http://www.ssaa.org.au/research/2009/20 ... bbies.html

Do we need to start our own body with the sole purpose of actively protecting shooters interests only? A pro gun lobby group which will use our power in numbers to shout down legislation or anyone who will take our civil liberties away.

Is there an existing body who we could join and help take up the fight?!

The SSAA say they have 165,000 members nationally and I have seen numbers of 600,000 in the media of firearms licences issued. Do you all realise that is more members and holders than ALL the anti gun lobbyists combined!

With that in mind I ask the question? Why are we in this situation?'

This is where I apologise for a long winded topic starter.

National Body what do we look for in them?

What I want would want to see/implement.

1)Non political body that first and foremost is there to protect the interests of ALL shooters.
2)To lobby our politicians state and federal to ensure we keep what we have in terms of laws
3)to lobby to remove the draconian and idiotic laws we currently have
4)to get back some of firearms in cat c and d.
5)to push positive messages in mainstream and online media regarding our sport/passion

About me.... In my 40's. Started shooting when I was 10, from 18 to 30 was a pistol shooter. Gave up due to my ex wife. Now I am back with my new wife.

I leave the floor open to enough gun!

[bigfellascott]

Some Lobby Groups already in existence and fighting for our rights

http://www.ic-wish.org/

http://www.shootersunion.com.au/

http://www.shootersandfishers.org.au/

http://www.ssaa.org.au/

Senators who support Firearms Ownership/use

Senator Bridget McKenzie
David Leihelm

And no doubt there are plenty of other organisations etc that are supportive of firearms ownership.

[Wylie27]

Good start Scott

I don't think SSAA do fight for us but thanks for addition

[bigfellascott]

Good start Scott

I don't think SSAA do fight for us but thanks for addition

You could well be right Wylie.

I'd rather invest my $$ with the S&F Party and try and make them stronger financially, that way we might just get a say in what happens in years to come.

Good luck if you do set up a Lobby Group mate.

[Title_II]

It's going to need to be nationalistic. I don't know if you have any RKBA in your Constitution, I can't believe you do since you can't even defend your loved ones in your homes.

You need to get everybody to support this, not just for themselves, but for your culture, and for their children. Your Country, your nation, deserves Free Men and Woman, not slaves.

Based on what I have read here about your society I doubt you can count on 600,000 friends. It sounds like you are all but ground under the heal of the boot and only go about your business at the pleasure of the government. With additional peril for owning arms.

I have a feeling a lot of people are afraid to speak up or get involved. We have that here in the States. You should take a look at our gun ownership polls. The legitimate polls show gun ownership rates going from 65% one year to 30% the year after a big gun control push or some kind of publicized murder. Does anybody think people in America are selling off all their guns when there is a gun control push?

If there are a great number of people in these United States that are afraid to say they own guns (and it's really just in a few states with large populations and bad laws), what do you expect where you live?

You need to get everybody out of the shadows and active. Willing to sign their name, address, email and phone number. Crap, every legal gun owner in Aussy already registered that anyway. Should be easier for you.

They are STILL trying to take everything away from you. Stand up and be counted, and fight. If some politician or cop decides to take your guns, well, at this pace they'll all be gone in 30 years anyway.

[pajamatime]

http://www.ldp.org.au/index.php/policies
these guys are on our side too

Yeah out of all parties these guys impressed me the most.
Not every one agrees with everything but if someone can offer a very broad umbreller it could centralize allot of divided shooters efforts into one hammer so to speak. Let's be honest our biggest weakness these days is not so much lack of numbers it's the way the government and media have even divided Lafos and have us bickering about this and that instead of "you scratch my back I will scratch yours approach" so to speak. What do we have in common? We all love guns and no one wants to loose them to the disarmament agenda.

[Bark]

SSAA are just another self-interested business as far as I can tell.

Nothing wrong with that, gotta make a living.... but I don't see them as a representative body for us.

[Gwion]

We need to recognise that we are culturally and politically distinct from the USA. We also need to recognise that we are not distinct from the mainstream of Australia. We are, in fact, just every day citizens. I have said it before and will say it again: there is too much "them and us".

Just my take.

[valkyrie]

the thing that we all need to realise is that, the police, politicians, and the general public are never going to listen to our reasons for wanting firearms. this is because they have been conditioned to think that anybody who owns guns is a little bit nuts. what we need to do is not go out and start fighting to keep our guns or get more lenient or realistic laws in relation to guns. if we start to push that way they will just push back harder. what we need to do is make the general public see that as gun owners we have nothing but their safety and best interests at heart. my suggestion is that we start with another not much talked about aspect of the australian weapons legislation that will appeal to the vast majority of the public as a totally sane and rational idea. i think that we need to make a push as gun owners to have pepper spray and other non lethal self defense devices legalised so as to better protect the weaker members of society ie, women the disabled and the elderly. the media has been playing dirty for a long time saying that all our guns do is kill people and that by disagreeing with heir points of view we are in some way responsible for the deaths. this has been going on so long that people are now beginning to believe them. we need to beat them at their own game. every time someone makes an argument against these self defense items being legalised, we not only need to refute their argument using the facts that we all know, but we also need to ask them why they want women to be unable to defend themselves against bigger stronger rapists, the elderly against home in invasions and the disabled against assaults. why do they want the weakest members of our society to be defenseless against the strongest. in this way we can start to change the view that everybody these days has of firearms owners, so they think of us not as crazy gun nuts, but as reasonable members of society. this is also the first steps toward us being able to defend ourselves and our families where the police cannot.

[trekin]

the thing that we all need to realise is that, the police, politicians, and the general public are never going to listen to our reasons for wanting firearms. this is because they have been conditioned to think that anybody who owns guns is a little bit nuts. what we need to do is not go out and start fighting to keep our guns or get more lenient or realistic laws in relation to guns. if we start to push that way they will just push back harder. what we need to do is make the general public see that as gun owners we have nothing but their safety and best interests at heart. my suggestion is that we start with another not much talked about aspect of the australian weapons legislation that will appeal to the vast majority of the public as a totally sane and rational idea. i think that we need to make a push as gun owners to have pepper spray and other non lethal self defense devices legalised so as to better protect the weaker members of society ie, women the disabled and the elderly. the media has been playing dirty for a long time saying that all our guns do is kill people and that by disagreeing with heir points of view we are in some way responsible for the deaths. this has been going on so long that people are now beginning to believe them. we need to beat them at their own game. every time someone makes an argument against these self defense items being legalised, we not only need to refute their argument using the facts that we all know, but we also need to ask them why they want women to be unable to defend themselves against bigger stronger rapists, the elderly against home in invasions and the disabled against assaults. why do they want the weakest members of our society to be defenseless against the strongest. in this way we can start to change the view that everybody these days has of firearms owners, so they think of us not as crazy gun nuts, but as reasonable members of society. this is also the first steps toward us being able to defend ourselves and our families where the police cannot.

How can you say that "what we need to do is not go out and start fighting to keep our guns or get more lenient or realistic laws in relation to guns.", when that is that only thing we, as LAFO's, have not yet tried? How do you know that "if we start to push that way" 'they' will not just fold?
For nineteen years now, we have sat, with our thumbs firmly implanted up our arses and done nothing, while 'they' have restricted us Law Abiding Firearms Owners access to semi-auto rifles, pump/semi-auto shotguns, hand guns greater than .38 cal or less than 250 mm in length and now, in all probability, all lever actions.
And why have we LAFO's assumed this thumb/arse position and allowed these restrictions? Because those treasonous organisations who supposedly represent us have told us that if we pay them ****** loads of money every year, and sit quietly in the corner like good little kiddies and not rock the boat, that, that will prove how wrong 'they' were, and 'they' will give back to us LAFO's what 'they' took away. The NFA started out with 10 points back in '96, it now has well in excess 25 and counting!

"the thing that we all need to realise is that, the police, politicians, and the general public are never going to listen to our reasons for wanting firearms. this is because they have been conditioned to think that anybody who owns guns is a little bit nuts", and who's to blame for this? Well, I'll tell you, the blame for this sits squarely on our, LAFO's, own shoulders. Oh, you say, but our representatives write strongly worded editorials that the media ignore, and we're always writing to this, that and the other pollie, and we've joined this, that and the next political party, started lobby groups (and boy, have there been a lot of those spring up in the last week on Facebook). Well folks, I hate to the bearer of bad news, but it ain't working, we're going backwards, and at an ever increasing rate of knots.
So, I hear you ask with bated breath, what is the solution? There's an old adage that says "Actions speak louder the words", and now is the time we LAFO's stood up, extracted our thumbs and start rocking the boat. Now I'm not saying we need a full blown Eureka Stockade type action (although this could be revisited at a later date), but if a hundred people with placards outside of a Mosque in Caboolture earlier this week can get a 30 second slot on national news, then WTF is wrong with us!

So, do we need another lobby group, in my opinion, no we don't. What we badly need is a proactive protest group. A national group with divisions in all States that can organise permits where needed, provide media statements and well spoken representatives to speak with the media at protests etc, allowing the national body to mount legal challenges against changes to firearms laws at State level, and to challenge the validity of the NFA in court.
Too expensive, you say, well if you think outside of the box, there are solutions to anything to be had.
If your interested, PM me, and if there is enough I'll message back with my ideas for a plan.

[SendIt]

what we need to do is not go out and start fighting to keep our guns or get more lenient or realistic laws in relation to guns. if we start to push that way they will just push back harder.

Mate, they're already pushing and they're sure as hell not going to stop.

If no one was pushing back they'd have already rolled over the lot of us.

[valkyrie]

Fair enough. Whens the first protest and where do I sign up?

[Wylie27]

National coordinated protest. Hit all capital cities simultaneously. One voice all shooters!

[pajamatime]

the thing that we all need to realise is that, the police, politicians, and the general public are never going to listen to our reasons for wanting firearms. this is because they have been conditioned to think that anybody who owns guns is a little bit nuts. what we need to do is not go out and start fighting to keep our guns or get more lenient or realistic laws in relation to guns. if we start to push that way they will just push back harder. what we need to do is make the general public see that as gun owners we have nothing but their safety and best interests at heart. my suggestion is that we start with another not much talked about aspect of the australian weapons legislation that will appeal to the vast majority of the public as a totally sane and rational idea. i think that we need to make a push as gun owners to have pepper spray and other non lethal self defense devices legalised so as to better protect the weaker members of society ie, women the disabled and the elderly. the media has been playing dirty for a long time saying that all our guns do is kill people and that by disagreeing with heir points of view we are in some way responsible for the deaths. this has been going on so long that people are now beginning to believe them. we need to beat them at their own game. every time someone makes an argument against these self defense items being legalised, we not only need to refute their argument using the facts that we all know, but we also need to ask them why they want women to be unable to defend themselves against bigger stronger rapists, the elderly against home in invasions and the disabled against assaults. why do they want the weakest members of our society to be defenseless against the strongest. in this way we can start to change the view that everybody these days has of firearms owners, so they think of us not as crazy gun nuts, but as reasonable members of society. this is also the first steps toward us being able to defend ourselves and our families where the police cannot.

How can you say that "what we need to do is not go out and start fighting to keep our guns or get more lenient or realistic laws in relation to guns.", when that is that only thing we, as LAFO's, have not yet tried? How do you know that "if we start to push that way" 'they' will not just fold?
For nineteen years now, we have sat, with our thumbs firmly implanted up our arses and done nothing, while 'they' have restricted us Law Abiding Firearms Owners access to semi-auto rifles, pump/semi-auto shotguns, hand guns greater than .38 cal or less than 250 mm in length and now, in all probability, all lever actions.
And why have we LAFO's assumed this thumb/arse position and allowed these restrictions? Because those treasonous organisations who supposedly represent us have told us that if we pay them ****** loads of money every year, and sit quietly in the corner like good little kiddies and not rock the boat, that, that will prove how wrong 'they' were, and 'they' will give back to us LAFO's what 'they' took away. The NFA started out with 10 points back in '96, it now has well in excess 25 and counting!

"the thing that we all need to realise is that, the police, politicians, and the general public are never going to listen to our reasons for wanting firearms. this is because they have been conditioned to think that anybody who owns guns is a little bit nuts", and who's to blame for this? Well, I'll tell you, the blame for this sits squarely on our, LAFO's, own shoulders. Oh, you say, but our representatives write strongly worded editorials that the media ignore, and we're always writing to this, that and the other pollie, and we've joined this, that and the next political party, started lobby groups (and boy, have there been a lot of those spring up in the last week on Facebook). Well folks, I hate to the bearer of bad news, but it ain't working, we're going backwards, and at an ever increasing rate of knots.
So, I hear you ask with bated breath, what is the solution? There's an old adage that says "Actions speak louder the words", and now is the time we LAFO's stood up, extracted our thumbs and start rocking the boat. Now I'm not saying we need a full blown Eureka Stockade type action (although this could be revisited at a later date), but if a hundred people with placards outside of a Mosque in Caboolture earlier this week can get a 30 second slot on national news, then WTF is wrong with us!

So, do we need another lobby group, in my opinion, no we don't. What we badly need is a proactive protest group. A national group with divisions in all States that can organise permits where needed, provide media statements and well spoken representatives to speak with the media at protests etc, allowing the national body to mount legal challenges against changes to firearms laws at State level, and to challenge the validity of the NFA in court.
Too expensive, you say, well if you think outside of the box, there are solutions to anything to be had.
If your interested, PM me, and if there is enough I'll message back with my ideas for a plan.

To be honest I agree with both valkyrie and you to some degree. Winning the hearts of the people and shooters alike is important though...so it should be a significant part of our "grass roots" movement. Like I have said before though the hardest part is getting Lafos to essentially come together to create critical mass which really gives these things the momentum and attention it needs to turn heads. Also I think Some Lafos need a serious attitude adjustment because I have witnessed public relation skills that leave allot to be desired. So maybe teaching people how communicate in a way that leaves people thinking "wow what a nice bunch" or something positive like that instead of leaving them thinking we are a bunch of defensive jackasses lol but hey more points to talk about right?

[valkyrie]

Exactly what I was trying to get at pajamatime

[Carter]

Even just a bit of positive media to counter the endless bulls**t.

One segment showing a bunch of people having a fun, safe time on the range would be a big step forward in reaching people are are not anti, but just uneducated on shooting and only have the BS the media currently feed them to go on.

[Title_II]

You're going to have to make your own media if that's what you want. Which is a great idea.

[Deco]

Pirate radio, lets do it