SSAA with a stern warning to shooters

[Heckler303]

on_one_wheel. Thats fine if you have made your decision, just as I have made mine.

[Baronvonrort]

Nup ... I haven't bothered to waste my time sending emails to politicians that won't read them.
We are kidding ourselves to think that we can sway the thoughts of government, how many Australians wanted a GST ? How many of us wanted speed limits reduced on major country roads ? How many of us wanted our power networks privatized ? These people just do what they want, this is not a democracy.
The only thing that can save our shooting interests is making sure we upset the ballance of the 2 party powerhouse next election.

With you on that one, mate.

I read on another page a post where someone was indicating that they felt the responsibility for submissions rests on the SSAA and other large organisations. The SSAA and other associations and organisations are only part of the solution. It is entirely apathetic that shooters continue to pass the buck and not get involved themselves and make individual representations!

And yet the SSAA will still take your money under false pretenses

Do the job that people are paying you to do, "protect firearm owner's interests", and that alone is worth more than 170,000 submissions!

If I am going to give money to a group representing shooters I expect them to be very active when the hoplophobes are spreading their bulls**t in the media.
Is it wrong to expect more from a group that claims to represent 170,000 people?

If I pay for membership I expect them to do more than I do in speaking up for our lack of freedom, I am a part time amateur they are full time professionals.

[<<Genesis93>>]

The SSAA DO NOT, HAVE NOT AND WILL NOT ROCK THE BOAT BECAUSE THE STATUS QUO WORKS FOR THEM....

If the laws were changed such that club membership was not a valid 'reason' or 'excuse' to demonstrate a 'need'.....

HOW MANY members would the SSAA have?

Lets be honest, we're all adults (well most of us) 96 laws were the best thing that happened for the SSAA!

[Baronvonrort]

Lets be honest, we're all adults (well most of us) 96 laws were the best thing that happened for the SSAA!

It would have increased the membership of that old boys club.

[pajamatime]

lol while your at it google tobacco conspiracy? you probably won't trust your doctor again

anyway...I came across this. It appears allot of organizations are coming together under one banner the only problem is our grass roots is at the mercy of cry babies who can't settle down and focus (lol yes I do have a way with words) http://www.firearmscouncil.org.au/index ... our-reach/


Everyone seems to have a bad thing to say about someone and it appears that is all that is keeping us from coming together and really being a powerful movement. Don't like SSAA? who cares work together. Don't like Bob the Cockroach? who cares! learn to work together and learn to WIN

[trekin]

Folks……….I am disgusted to read the above negativity. You do realise that YOU are the problem and not the solution. You are either pulling the wagon or in the wagon, and frankly those of us pulling the wagon are not happy about the dead weights.

The folk who make noise about Gay marriage get a lot of attention, and yet there are ONLY 280-300,000 of them. Shooters number well over 800,000. So for every gay person there are three shooters.

You need to get active and stop taking the apathetic approach that just because the SSAA or Shooters Union or whoever you are a member of are being paid to do the work alone. They are there as a representative body but we the members need to support their work.

Get off your arses and do something positive or shut up the whinging. If you do not do anything you have no right to whinge about the outcome or whinge about the SSAA/SU/ACTA/PSA/<insert your group> who represent you taking your money and failing.

For those who have had their head in the sand of late and would like to know where to send a submission; here it is.

National Firearms Act Review Committee
By email : NationalFirearmsAgreement.Submissions@ag.gov.au

If you want some tips on content to reword in your own words go to Ozzie Reviews Facebook page or go to the link posted above and get some ideas. mine are all there to get some material from.

For anyone who feels a bit wound up at me for getting a bit harsh on you, sorry, I wish it were not this way, but you need to help us help everyone.

Well, I don't know what negative posts you were reading, as I'm only seeing posts from people who share the same disgust as yourself, only it is directed not at those in the wagon, but at those who are hanging off the side dragging their feet in the mud and cracking the whip at us to pull harder.
The others, no doubt, like myself have woken up to the fact writing letters and submissions is going to have no effect on the outcome of the NFA review, but that is not to say we have given up, far from it!
I also take offence to the implication that by not writing endless letters and submissions, I am not pulling my weight. As a firearms safety instructor for the last fifteen years, I have personally helped close to one thousand people obtain their firearms licence's (over one hundred in 2013 alone). Everyone of those who have sat there firearms safety course with me, have been asked to speak to at least four non shooting people they know and garner their support for that person and his/her sport/hobby. Now I don't know exactly how many do this, but in my own neighborhood, I can take my rifles out to my car in broad daylight knowing that I am not causing fear to my neighbors. And in the wider community (small regional city of approx 65,000) I don't fear telling people, such as my doctor, bank manager, police etc, that I am a LAFO, in fact, in twenty years here, I've only meet four or five anti's, and only one of them was a typical hoplophobe. I use my firearms licence as photo ID, and have been given firearms from the evidence locker when the local police have had a clean up.
It is my belief that in the end, it is only with the support of the wider non shooting community that we LAFO's are going to put a stop to these lunatic's imposing their will on us, and taking more of our rights and freedoms from us.

[Title_II]

Fight every single time. Every single time. Lose as much as possible. You lose on your way to winning. Because nobody will take you seriously right away.

Americans lost over and over and over and we did not stop. And now we have them on their heals.

Your children and grandchildren will look at you in some years, and they will say, "You had 800,000 shooters back then? Why didn't you do anything?"

These are the good old days. There is no instant gratification, so get started.

[Title_II]

Nup ... I haven't bothered to waste my time sending emails to politicians that won't read them.
We are kidding ourselves to think that we can sway the thoughts of government, how many Australians wanted a GST ? How many of us wanted speed limits reduced on major country roads ? How many of us wanted our power networks privatized ? These people just do what they want, this is not a democracy.
The only thing that can save our shooting interests is making sure we upset the ballance of the 2 party powerhouse next election.

With you on that one, mate.

I read on another page a post where someone was indicating that they felt the responsibility for submissions rests on the SSAA and other large organisations. The SSAA and other associations and organisations are only part of the solution. It is entirely apathetic that shooters continue to pass the buck and not get involved themselves and make individual representations!

And yet the SSAA will still take your money under false pretenses

Do the job that people are paying you to do, "protect firearm owner's interests", and that alone is worth more than 170,000 submissions!

If I am going to give money to a group representing shooters I expect them to be very active when the hoplophobes are spreading their bulls**t in the media.
Is it wrong to expect more from a group that claims to represent 170,000 people?

If I pay for membership I expect them to do more than I do in speaking up for our lack of freedom, I am a part time amateur they are full time professionals.

Do you know what powers the NRA in the US? It's not their money (they don't spend much). It's not their paid employees. It is their members, period. The NRA didn't save us, we brought them to water.

All of the firearms law reform in The Great Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, who did that? The Citizens. That's who. Gun groups are to facilitate keeping you informed and to a limited extent coordinated. They are NOT there to do your job for you.

Why the hell would anybody listen to a Gun group when only 500 out of 800,000 shooters are doing anything?

Citizens must do the heavy lifting or nothing gets done.

[Heckler303]

Nup ... I haven't bothered to waste my time sending emails to politicians that won't read them.
We are kidding ourselves to think that we can sway the thoughts of government, how many Australians wanted a GST ? How many of us wanted speed limits reduced on major country roads ? How many of us wanted our power networks privatized ? These people just do what they want, this is not a democracy.
The only thing that can save our shooting interests is making sure we upset the ballance of the 2 party powerhouse next election.

With you on that one, mate.

I read on another page a post where someone was indicating that they felt the responsibility for submissions rests on the SSAA and other large organisations. The SSAA and other associations and organisations are only part of the solution. It is entirely apathetic that shooters continue to pass the buck and not get involved themselves and make individual representations!

And yet the SSAA will still take your money under false pretenses

Do the job that people are paying you to do, "protect firearm owner's interests", and that alone is worth more than 170,000 submissions!

If I am going to give money to a group representing shooters I expect them to be very active when the hoplophobes are spreading their bulls**t in the media.
Is it wrong to expect more from a group that claims to represent 170,000 people?

If I pay for membership I expect them to do more than I do in speaking up for our lack of freedom, I am a part time amateur they are full time professionals.

Do you know what powers the NRA in the US? It's not their money (they don't spend much). It's not their paid employees. It is their members, period. The NRA didn't save us, we brought them to water.

All of the firearms law reform in The Great Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, who did that? The Citizens. That's who. Gun groups are to facilitate keeping you informed and to a limited extent coordinated. They are NOT there to do your job for you.

Why the hell would anybody listen to a Gun group when only 500 out of 800,000 shooters are doing anything?

Citizens must do the heavy lifting or nothing gets done.

^ This.

[winchestersx]

I can assure everybody on this forum that posts are monitored and members profiled and there are agents that deliberately incite division.

[Sam45]

I can assure everybody on this forum that posts are monitored and members profiled and there are agents that deliberately incite division.

Hmm interwebs, It has been the way for years.

[<<Genesis93>>]

I can assure everybody on this forum that posts are monitored and members profiled and there are agents that deliberately incite division.

You'd be foolish to not realise these forums are monitored.... the old shooting forum was even hit up at least once... maybe several times by the police for IPs.....and even david ****** hangs around...it might even be suggested like a filthy pedo stalking his prey... waiting for a juicy morsel of text to incriminate the shooting fraternity . ..

[Heckler303]

In that case this post goes out to him:

Dear Shoebridge:

FU

Sincerely heckler303

[on_one_wheel]

David Shoebridge ? Fair dinkum ?

What a wet wick, There's no way I'd trust that bloke alone with my children, he looks like a creepy little rock spider.
Parasites like that are the reason the Australian government are in such turmoil.

[Heckler303]

Im with you on_one_wheel, no wonder he's a member of the greens the friggin creep.

[pajamatime]

Nup ... I haven't bothered to waste my time sending emails to politicians that won't read them.
We are kidding ourselves to think that we can sway the thoughts of government, how many Australians wanted a GST ? How many of us wanted speed limits reduced on major country roads ? How many of us wanted our power networks privatized ? These people just do what they want, this is not a democracy.
The only thing that can save our shooting interests is making sure we upset the ballance of the 2 party powerhouse next election.

With you on that one, mate.

I read on another page a post where someone was indicating that they felt the responsibility for submissions rests on the SSAA and other large organisations. The SSAA and other associations and organisations are only part of the solution. It is entirely apathetic that shooters continue to pass the buck and not get involved themselves and make individual representations!

And yet the SSAA will still take your money under false pretenses

Do the job that people are paying you to do, "protect firearm owner's interests", and that alone is worth more than 170,000 submissions!

If I am going to give money to a group representing shooters I expect them to be very active when the hoplophobes are spreading their bulls**t in the media.
Is it wrong to expect more from a group that claims to represent 170,000 people?

If I pay for membership I expect them to do more than I do in speaking up for our lack of freedom, I am a part time amateur they are full time professionals.

Do you know what powers the NRA in the US? It's not their money (they don't spend much). It's not their paid employees. It is their members, period. The NRA didn't save us, we brought them to water.

All of the firearms law reform in The Great Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, who did that? The Citizens. That's who. Gun groups are to facilitate keeping you informed and to a limited extent coordinated. They are NOT there to do your job for you.

Why the hell would anybody listen to a Gun group when only 500 out of 800,000 shooters are doing anything?

Citizens must do the heavy lifting or nothing gets done.

@Title: spot on Title. @Slackers: Or as I say...our organizations are doing their bit but our Grass roots movement is struggling to gain momentum because of the slackers who think fighting for our guns is only for people who don't want to sit back and drink stubbies ( beer ) all day. well your probably right...if your fighting to keep your right to own and use firearms your less likely to be sitting on your arse drinking beer all day. I guess some people just prefer to drink beer all day? because at the end of the day when they take your gun you won't be able to shoot that bunny that sticks his head out of the grass while your drinking that beer ^_^

Edit: @ title: btw m8 we have recently had a Canadian fellar preech to us about the importance of a strong Grass roots movement and you were just talking about similar things as well. Maybe we need more yanks to throw some support Australia way because our movement is infested with Pro Gun pretenders who are really just Anti gun pro Greens Party members lol...how do we smoke the bastards out m8?

[on_one_wheel]

Do you realy think your submission count ?
Do you realy beleve that your emails are being read.

If you do then I beleve your delusional.

[pajamatime]

Do you realy think your submission count ?
Do you realy beleve that your emails are being read.

If you do then I beleve your delusional.

I get a fair few replies back. And I get ping backs telling me it was opened or deleted etc.
so put it this way its kinda like fishing...lol but less boring? lots of success to be had though ^_^

[on_one_wheel]

Ah the good old automatic replies.

[<<Genesis93>>]

Do you realy think your submission count ?
Do you realy beleve that your emails are being read.

If you do then I beleve your delusional.

I get a fair few replies back. And I get ping backs telling me it was opened or deleted etc.
so put it this way its kinda like fishing...lol but less boring? lots of success to be had though ^_^

Deleted...... id be placing bets on that option.....

At the coquespank lovefest next month they print out and circulate only submissions from the invited parties ONLY

[Heckler303]

Do you realy think your submission count ?
Do you realy beleve that your emails are being read.

If you do then I beleve your delusional.

I get a fair few replies back. And I get ping backs telling me it was opened or deleted etc.
so put it this way its kinda like fishing...lol but less boring? lots of success to be had though ^_^

Pajamatime, can you copy and paste a reply you got back?

[trekin]

Do you realy think your submission count ?
Do you realy beleve that your emails are being read.

If you do then I beleve your delusional.

I get a fair few replies back. And I get ping backs telling me it was opened or deleted etc.
so put it this way its kinda like fishing...lol but less boring? lots of success to be had though ^_^

Pajamatime, can you copy and paste a reply you got back?

Let's start a new thread where everyone can post copies of their replies, and I'll run side bets as to how close to these exact words each post will be;






They recently did this on several FB pages, so I know I'm in the money with the side bets.

[Title_II]

Do you realy think your submission count ?
Do you realy beleve that your emails are being read.

If you do then I beleve your delusional.

What do you mean by, "count?" You mean everything will be good and fixed next week?

When Aussies fire their weapons in combat to save the World from evil, and their bullets hit nothing, and their m8s die, do they think their bullets counted? Aussies still saved the day. And you are not going to risk dropping over dead tomorrow from sending an email or meeting with a legislator.

Either fight or announce your unconditional surrender. Pick one, and send an email that corresponds with your choice. I think that is the minimum that can be asked. Send them an email that says you surrender and welcome new firearm restrictions and bans. Stand up and make your position known.

If you actually don't like their boilerplate email responses, do what I have said all along. Call their staffers and request they do things, and request they get back to you. If they don't get back to them. Have one or two things every time you call them. Make them work for you.

"Well, mate, they don't care!"

They don't care because you don't do it! This does not happen overnight. It's going to be a long, bumpy, very satisfying trip! Get started now!

Or look your children in the eyes and teach them to be subjects and cowards.

We are not talking about a friggen revolution here. We are talking about emails, phone calls, and perhaps meetings with staffers. 10 minutes a month. They work for you!

Well, my take.

[RoginaJack]

Yes, I too am in 2 minds as to contact my State and Federal members and voice my concerns OR have the SSAA represent me at the NRA meetings because after all, the SSAA Federal has a seat and this is where the decisions (supposingly) will be made.
I feel my local State and Federal members just don't understand or really care about 1 vote but when the SSAA take their seat at the NFA table and state that there are something like 800,000 firearm owners in Australia and that represents up to 2.4 million votes, we might get a bit of respect and attention paid to our concerns.
The Gun Control Australia (GCA), spokesperson, Ms S Lee rantings are merely a side show and is something that should not be a distraction from the important goals. Yes, she gets on my goat too, and the untruths on the GCA website as well. However, should GCA be invited to submit, that is when all this misinformation and untruths will have to be supported by facts and open to challenge by members.
I think that the SSAA will have more clout at the NFA table than me trying to explain to my local Representatives.
Rant over.

[Gwion]

Totally with Trekin in that the support of the general populace is what is needed to make any difference.

Us and them.... Nope... It's about all Australians and many shooters are only too ready to polarise the population, which will not do anyone any good.

[pajamatime]

Do you realy think your submission count ?
Do you realy beleve that your emails are being read.

If you do then I beleve your delusional.

I get a fair few replies back. And I get ping backs telling me it was opened or deleted etc.
so put it this way its kinda like fishing...lol but less boring? lots of success to be had though ^_^

Pajamatime, can you copy and paste a reply you got back?

yeah sure. I changed the names for privacy reasons but here is a couple.

Dear Bob the Cockroach,



The Australian Greens acknowledge that many firearms owners abide by firearms laws in Australia. Greens Senator, Penny Wright for South Australia in her capacity as Chair of the Legal and Constitutional Affairs References Committee has recently tabled a report entitled Ability of Australian law enforcement authorities to eliminate gun-related violence in the community. The majority report is a considered look at the issue of illicit firearms in Australia and ways to monitor their prevalence and prevent their use. Senator Di Natale, Senator Wright and the Australian Greens understand the frustration that decent Australian citizens who own and use a firearm in compliance with the law experience. However, it would be naive to suggest that all registered firearms owners abide by the law all of the time, or that no firearms owners have relationships with or connections to people who seek to use firearms for illicit purposes. It is a central finding of the report tendered by Senator Wright that more needs to be done to address gun crime in Australia and that all levels of government need to be better resourced and to work together better to reduce crime caused by illegal weapons. As such, some of the majority recommendations included: a rolling gun amnesty; nationally consistent regulation of firearms laws; and continued monitoring of the risks posed by 3D-printed weapons.



Further important recommendations were to fund a National Firearms Monitoring Program and the Firearm theft in Australia series to continue in an ongoing basis. We also recommended funding for the Australian Institute of Criminology to conduct a review of current data collection and reporting arrangements. The Australian Greens believe that better data and getting all levels of government speaking the same language and sharing information will help tackle the illicit firearms trade and make our streets safer.



Throughout the inquiry, the minority senators on this issue challenged the evidence about illegal guns and questioned the data at every point. But then they opposed any further funding for new research and new, more reliable data. To address your concerns regarding restrictions you believe are unwarranted I will refer to a report by Australian Customs which found that the Australian illicit firearms market is predominantly comprised of firearms diverted from legal domestic sources, a finding broadly backed by research from the Australian Crime Commission and the Australian Institute of Criminology. I want to acknowledge that illegal international gun trafficking is a serious concern and there is more that can be done on this front, but we cannot address illegal gun crime by focusing on illegal sources alone.



Illegal weapons have caused terrible tragedies in almost every Australian capital city in the last few years. The Australian Greens firmly believe that more can be done to reduce gun crime. The Australian Greens are firmly committed to getting illegal guns off our streets and making our communities safer



Kind regards,



Catherine Garner

Office of Senator Larissa Waters

Co-Deputy Leader Australian Greens, Australian Greens Senator for Queensland

Locked Bag 3004, Paddington, QLD, 4064

T (07) 3367 0566 F (07) 33670577

E catherine.garner@aph.gov.au W larissa-waters.greensmps.org.au

Facebook https://www.facebook.com/larissawaters

Twitter @larissawaters

Here is another one:

Dear Mr and Mrs Pajamatime



Thank you for your email.



We acknowledge the valid concerns that you have raised, as they are shared by our constituents in our home state of South Australia. For that reason, in August during the Senate sittings in Canberra we worked with our New South Wales LDP colleague Senator David Leyonhjelm and Victorian AMEP colleague Senator Ricky Muir to convince the government that it must:



(a) consult better with a host of reputable firearm owner associations on the National Firearms Agreement; and

(b) certify that their ‘temporary’ ban on the Adler A110 would not become permanent.



With Senators Leyonhjelm and Muir we secured those commitments from the government.



We encourage you to work with representative groups in your home state and nationally on these matters. We will be happy to receive their representation about these matters as they develop.



We hope that the foregoing demonstrates that the crossbench of the Senate is a place where concerns can be raised and acted upon swiftly. Without a crossbench, prompt action on this matter would not have occurred.



Senator Day appreciates that you have written to him about a current issue that concerns you. The Senator has been elected as a Family First Senator for South Australia on a platform of “Every family, a job and a house”. This is a massive task which promotes independence and self-reliance, reducing the need for government intervention. This leads to smaller government, lower taxes and therefore more money in the pockets of families. Senator Day therefore has a limited capacity to advocate for (a) issues outside of his State or (b) policy priorities beyond that focus. Were Senator Day to have more Family First colleagues elected to the Senate, we could provide greater support. Having said that, Senator Day has indicated above what he has to say about the issues that you have raised.



Kind Regards



On behalf of:

Senator Bob Day AO

Senator for South Australia



Email logo block

http://www.senatorbobday.com.au



Commonwealth Parliamentary Offices

Level 13, 100 King William Street Adelaide SA 5000

Tel 08 8205 1080 Fax 08 8205 1085



Electorate Office

77 Fullarton Road, Kent Town SA 5067

Tel 08 8331 0151 Fax 08 8331 0138

[Heckler303]

The first reply you put there seems pretty shoddy and sus, but seeing as it came from the Greens I'm not surprised.


That second one from Bob Day actually does sound pretty promising. If he's helping out Leyonhjelm and Muir, he gets my support too.

[pajamatime]

The first reply you put there seems pretty shoddy and sus, but seeing as it came from the Greens I'm not surprised.


That second one from Bob Day actually does sound pretty promising. If he's helping out Leyonhjelm and Muir, he gets my support too.

yeah I get mostly dodgies back from the greens lol

edit: I hope you guys didnt mind me posting one from the greens. I wanted to give a example of the type of unsubstantiated rubbish they come out with and the smear work they do in response to emailers.

WHAT THEY SAY IS LIES

[Heckler303]

Fully agree with you there Pajamatime.

Be like hickock45, never trust watermelons!

[Title_II]

Of course they don't care! Nobody bothers them! Nobody cared when we called in America. Are Americans just better than Aussies? Is it a big penis thing?

It could be years before they care. Stay on them. Call them and ask them to consider information you have and get back to you. Make them work. The day will come when they take you seriously.

Or when our children and grandchildren ask, "Daddy, when did we give up our firearms rights?"

You can respond, "I gave them up on 10/4/2015."

"But, Daddy, you had 800,000 shooters back then! Why?"

"Yeah, sorry about that."