on the run fugitives - Victoria

[<<Genesis93>>]

i heard it was a 308, they will travel a few klms (not that you would be aiming at anything at that distance) and if it was a small tree,very small, twigish in fact, it may go through it.

saying that, they have more range and stopping power than a handgun and if i were the cops i would bide my time and get them another time. its a job and no job is worth getting killed for.

Sounds like a smart idea. They are traffic police, not soldiers. If the two people on the run really do have a 308 winchester in their hands it has more energy at 1000 yards than a 357 magnum at the muzzle and a much greater effective range than whatever a traffic cop is carrying. The fact they shot at police shows how desperate they are and that makes them dangerous so sooner they are caught the better.

Bit dramatic with the comparo.... 308win at 1000yds would have a fraction of the energy of the 357Mag at muzzle..... but I get the point, a decent rifle round compared to a handgun round, accuracy and range, but a rifle against four black landcruisers and an APC full of M4s and MP5s..... no wonder these guys are bolting across states

[Rocker]

I stopped watching TV all together since last year, so much BS and crap channels we could get meant it was just a waste of electricity more than something decent to watch.

I'm not far behind you.

About 10 minutes a day of news is interesting and the rest is complete crap.

[Baronvonrort]

Along with the "very very" comments I head the other day it was "similar to an AK-47"

Ch 9 news said it was a semi auto SKS with armour piercing bullets.

So where did he get this Cat D ?

[<<Genesis93>>]

...laser guided very very highly very ultra powerful armour piercing DU lethal death gun rifle weapon....

[sandgroperbill]

wow...sounds dangerous. Still, it could be worse. Could you imagine how many people they would have killed and airplanes they would have shot down if they had a lever action shotgun? Either way, I'm glad our strict licensing laws are preventing them from getting anything really dangerous...

[coloradoboy]

that ain't dangerous.

those liberals and left wing communists are dangerous with their disarming of the citizenry obsession

[happyhunter]

.

[anthillinside]

7 year + committing similar crimes across 3 states.
So how about LE actually TELLING us about them!
There was a post on this forum earlier this year about tires being slashed, now obviously them!
Perhaps if the word had spread to farmers about them then they would have been caught several years ago.
Now after "They Shot at Police" they become "Australia's Most Wanted"
And because of the apparent inability of the police to anything to capture these two and the police and media hysteria about "Very High Power Firearms" they now feel the need to reassure the public by saying that they have no history of violence towards the public.
The vindictive damage against past employers doesn't seem to count.
A prime example of the inability of the police "Protect us"
NOTE: I do NOT blame the working officers, it's the Law and Order politicians and the high command who remove the ability of acting police (or anyone else for that matter) to to protect anyone.

[Gwion]

Sound's like an extended stay at the BlueStone Bed'n'Breakfast is coming up for these guys.

[<<Genesis93>>]

Bit dramatic with the comparo.... 308win at 1000yds would have a fraction of the energy of the 357Mag at muzzle..... but I get the point, a decent rifle round compared to a handgun round, accuracy and range, but a rifle against four black landcruisers and an APC full of M4s and MP5s..... no wonder these guys are bolting across states

The comparison isn't mine. Somebody that knows better than you or me said it and the data doesn't lie.
24" barrel 1:12 twist shooting M118LR (Federal GMM, 175g SMKs) at 1000 yards = 547 ft-lbs -- vs -- 4" barrel 158g .357 Mag Federal DoubleTap JHPs = 539 ft-lb at the muzzle. You can check that for yourself.

I have no idea how proficient these two pricks are with a rifle although no doubt their number is going to come up.

How do you know they know better then me? did he/or she tell you so??

The beauty about numbers, is just that, they're just numbers, random assortments at times, that can be assembled in various orders to 'prove' anything statement... from numerous combinations of loads.... so choose a load, a projectile and their are limitless combinations, if you want to 'prove' how dangerous the 308win is then a statement will convince the 'majority'.....and make good reading for the masses -

Yes, the media AKA the presstitutes HAVE taken quotes from the forums....so just imagine;

"Fugitive's rifle(s) more powerful at one kilometer (yards is too difficult) than Dirt Harry's hand cannon (or insert other more scary description) at point blank (they always use the 'point blank' without an understanding of the words).... then for good measure they might even mention that its a common type of rifle....

.....but as far as this particular comparison, I selected the hottest pistol load - which makes sense if your comparing the max energy 357Magnum,125gr@1839fps.... I then spoke some reverse Polski to the HP and came up 939 ft.lb Energy at the muzzle.....even the 158 produces 800+ft.lb according to ADI velocities...and these are not even rifle loads.... (so if you want to prove how powerful the 308 is you might even choose lighter or min loads )

While for the 308win, I selected the most popular projectiles 150, 168 and ultimately came up with maximum retained energy of 333 and 476ft.lb at range....respectively...even the 175gr is less than 500ft.lb...


So, with the correct combination the 357Mag is 2x 308win....given that you could get a few more fps from the 357, while the 308win is pushing it to get that energy with ideal conditions not to mention it's a heck of a good deal easier to get the 357 onto target at the zero feet range compared to the 308 at 1000yds, at least for me.....ABC fact check results are in.

cue; long range keyboard snipers

[Heckler303]

ABC, SBS & NITV the rest are a waste of space.

NITV itself deserves to be taken off air with no reason given to do so.

[Tiger650]

These two ****** need to be shot dead and a profitable mini series made to advertise braindead rubbish for the Proles to buy.

More likely though is that they will be apprehended and a team of QC's will increase their wealth before the Stocco's are sentenced to live in a motel, when released they will both get on the dole and all will live happily ever after !

Except of course for Muggins the Taxpayer, call us collateral damage when old age pensioners have to huddle in shopping centers to avoid the cold in winter and eat black and gold brand cat food for sustenance.

The Government are "people cockys"and we are their stock.

[Elek]

Just read in the news, they nabbed both of them a couple of hours ago.

[<<Genesis93>>]

Wait for it...... they'll be falling over each other to claim credit.... for taking 8 YEARS.

they were too busy entering law abiding citizens homes to check safe storage....

[Gwion]

ABC, SBS & NITV the rest are a waste of space.

NITV itself deserves to be taken off air with no reason given to do so.

Can you, in any way, reasonable justify that statement???

[sbd3927]

ABC, SBS & NITV the rest are a waste of space.

NITV itself deserves to be taken off air with no reason given to do so.

Can you, in any way, reasonable justify that statement???

Assuming by the ABC and SBS co-references it's a public funded media of some sort? It must be a useful, well targeted and popular medium? I've never heard of it, so they aren't doing a good job of reaching an audience. There's a reason

[MR. WINCHESTER]

N.S.W coppers did, what the Vic boys couldn't ...

Please discuss. ( BAHAHAHA )

[<<Genesis93>>]

N.S.W coppers did, what the Vic boys couldn't ...

Please discuss. ( BAHAHAHA )

You Mean what the Vic coppers couldnt do in 3 days.... NSW did in 8yrs?? (and Qld)

[adam]

Glad they're caught. Sadly it seems as though they have taken a life - only discovered today (?) but was done a couple of weeks ago. An manager of a farm in his late 60's from what I've heard - name not yet released.

As for real news TV with investiative journalism (as opposed to opiniative journalism). It no longer exists. Commercial or govt. I tend to find my news via other avenues these days - mainly from the internet. Still got to sort the rubbish through the real stuff, but at least you can get both sides as opposed to completely biased one way delusions such as the ABC.

[MR. WINCHESTER]

N.S.W coppers did, what the Vic boys couldn't ...

Please discuss. ( BAHAHAHA )

You Mean what the Vic coppers couldnt do in 3 days.... NSW did in 8yrs?? (and Qld)

Hey !

Its all about TODAY.

'8 years' is akin to prehistoric days.

I suspect the Vic boys would do it different, if they had the option / choice ...

[anthillinside]

And another innocent civilian dies because they were left on the run.
"They don't have a history of harming the public" That was the official line in Vic. ...Well they never do until they DO then it's too late for someone.
8 YEARS across 3 States, the public are treated like mushrooms, keep in the dark and feed nothing but BS.
If the farmers or public had been told what to look out for 7 years ago it could have ended about 6.5 years ago.
I want some answers from the TOP (see previous post re who I blame)

[<<Genesis93>>]

Lets recall.....
When vicpol caught up with then they did Not pursue because they were armed you'd think it would be reason enough TO pursue....

[adam]

I'm skeptical about the whole '8 years on the run' thing... Does anyone know why they were 'on the run' for that many years. (ie, what they were wanted for).

I'm sure there are thousands of people out there with active warrants at the moment dating back months and years. (Skipped bail, wanted for theft, haven't paid a fine imposed on them by court, etc). At this stage I'm suspicious these guys were one of the thousands, and only because a priority once they were intercepted and they reacted violently - hence the increased awareness and press.

My bet is that the press would have hyped up the whole 'warrant out for 8 years' to 'on the run' to make a good story from it.

As for the pursuing them when they're armed. Whilst they haven't killed anyone (that was known about) - I'm sure that the good ol' OH&S laws step in there, and that VicPol aren't necessarily the ones to blame. I've got mates in the force and OH&S is embedded into everything they do now, just like other work places.

[sandgroperbill]

but what about the ohs of everyone else? not to mention a duty of care to the public that may be exposed to a desperate fugitive feeling trapped whilst armed.

[adam]

OHS doesn't care about the public - it's only workplaces that it has the power with / where it's concerns lie or the public in a designated workplace.

If someone armed invades your house and you call the cops, do not expect them to get their quickly and break in like the movies. Firstly they will most likely organise a rendaivu place nearby to wait & meet with other units before all approaching your place for OH&S requirements. That's the way it is these days... Your house is private, so OH&S doesn't touch you there, however when the police come in, it's a workplace to them, and they have to abide by OH&S requirements.

You might disagree with this, but the issue's with the OH&S requirements, and that''ll be partly why they were ordered not to pursue.

In addition to that, the police can never win. If they pursued, and someone was killed. (Whether it be a innocent 3rd party with a car accident, or one of the police members), they'd once again be under attack from the general public for doing it wrong.

If they try and play it safe, they're still under attack. It's easy for people to have an opinion about how it should be done when they're not the ones responsible and whichever way it goes there's likely to be a post inquiry critisising every decision that was made.

The government has made it this way. People are now encouraged to do nothing, as it's generally harder to get into hot water for doing nothing than it is for doing something and it hitting the fan because then they're the ones to blame and not the crims.

On a separate note - do we know what the original warrant was for, before this escalated?

[<<Genesis93>>]

Recently I had an officer set up with a hand held speed detector..... in my street, which is what I would consider relatively quiet, in the morning at 7am.... on a saturday...IN A FOLD OUT CAMPING CHAIR.... you know the ones with the stubbie holder in the armrest!!!

FFS. So I takes a picture of the scene;

Delete the photo, says cop.... "THIS IS MY WORKPLACE"......

So yes, their primary concern is to make the worksite safe for themselves....and their workplace is where we are.

[sandgroperbill]

Adam, I'm not disagreeing with you, but if ohs restricts emergency and essential services from having any effectiveness then you have to start applying common sense and winding it back.

It should be a risk/reward analysis. If police can't do anything for fear of getting it wrong, then why have police? We can subcontract speed cameras and parking inspection.

[Harper]

"They don't have a history of harming the public" That was the official line in Vic.

Awesome attitude