Gun theft Melb. East - police called, what happens next?

[sandgroperbill]

I'm sorry, but when you join the Police, you do so understanding that you may find yourself in dangerous situations, and you put yourself into these situations to protect the public. Might as well just get rid of the Police. Its not like they can be used to do anything, anyway.

We're getting very close to a prediction made several decades ago. I actually found an old video that somebody put on YouTube predicting something very similar in 1970.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DNj1dXi-z0M

[adam]

But Asst. Commissioner Doug Fryer hit back, saying there was a lot of misinformation surrounding the policy.

"Everyone is referring to it as a 'no pursuit' – that is not the case – it's a restricted pursuit policy," he explained.

"The safety of our community has to come first."

Pitty there wasn't a caller who rang in asking about the gun safe theft where police didn't pursue then.

[<<Genesis93>>]

Next time the chief or assistant commish gets on 3AW, someone should call in..... I think one of them go in there quite often, for their usual slot for the propaganda, feed the sheeple, the police are here helping...

The Police, whom I have the utmost respect for, when they deserve it, swear an oath to uphold the Queen's peace, that means doing the Queens duty of keeping the 'subjects' safe. I dont think allowing the crims to casually drive away from any and every incident qualifies as keeping the peace....

Their job isnt at all to be the state's revenue collectors.....or if you like the states armed highway robbers

[Redwood]

What're they chances they'd air the bit though.

Close to zip I'd say.

It'd just get chopped and all listeners would get is the spiel on how our tough laws are keeping us all "safe"

[happyhunter]

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[sandgroperbill]

I don't know all the inner workings and decision making that went into creating such policies, but my understanding is basically risk v reward while minimizing the risk to innocent civilians and the pursuing officers as best as possible.

I agree, it shouldn't be left up to arm chair experts to make such calls, therefore, let the pursuing officers make that call, not someone back at the station, at least initially or until you can get other methods of tracking the thieves, ie air support.

Now, without knowing all the details, and making an assumption that they had stolen a firearms safe, or even what looks like a firearms safe, natural assumption would dictate that said thieves aren't going to take the firearms safe home, reinstall it, and then use the contents responsibly. Nope, they're most likely to sell the contents off, which to my mind, can see multiple people who cannot or will not get licenses now with illegal firearms, which will be used for who knows what, multiplying the risk well beyond that of the original pursuit.

The exception to this is if there is a very clear lead or idea as to who may be responsible and, therefore, a very good chance of recovering the firearms safe with its contents quite quickly.

As for trying to remove risk from the equation, ie only pursuing in extreme circumstances, this emboldens criminals to commit further crimes and puts more restraints on Police trying to do their job, therefore, most likely making their job more dangerous over time whilst also increasing the risk to the community over time. I can't see the longer term benefits, but feel free to correct me here.

As for me, I have the utmost respect for Police Officers and realise, just like everywhere and everything else, a few bad ones can tarnish the reputation of everyone, but I've almost always found them to be level headed and respectful. They don't deserve to be ridiculed or spoken down to because the decisions of people making their decisions for them or giving them their orders. They have just as much right to go home to their families or friends as any of us do, but there are inherent risks associated with their jobs, something that everyone that joins the Police undoubtedly knows and accepts (which is why each individual officer should have our respect unless they do something seriously wrong to lose it, and I don't mean making a mistake. People make mistakes and should have our backing even when they do, unless it is very serious).

Do I think every crim should be pursued? nope. Do I think that, assuming they knew or thought the thieves had a firearms safe, they should have pursued? yes. Do I know for a fact that they did, or that the Police thought there was a firearms safe involved? nope. If they did, then they should have pursued. If they didn't, I'll defer to their decisions.

[<<Genesis93>>]

The cops weigh up the circumstances at the time and make a risk assesment in the interest of somebody innocent being taken out versus the pursuit. Sounds like common sense? Arm chair experts blow hot air about a policy they don't even understand because a gun safe is mentioned.

You would have thought that the 'weigh up the risk / make a judgement call ' was the standard operating procedure for, well... forever. But apparently the po po officers were not really good at making the judgement call.... so it was decided for them by others. This has resulted in one or maybe 2 Officers literally sitting on their hands while WATCHING a safe full of stolen firearms drive away toward the horizon and into the hands of the criminal underworld. The same criminals -so many guns available gun crime more guns being discovered everyday world they BLEAT on about at every press conference or media interview.....

Yes, I'm an arm chair expert too, but if I misunderstood something here please elucidate...

This policy of Zero / or limited pursuit (exemplified by the matter of this thread) WILL change, sooner rather than later.....It simply must.

[David Brown]

And wait……what happens when one of these serial numbers appears at a crime scene after killing some innocent (usually not) victim. Yep the LFO source of guns is real!! Better round em all up.

[happyhunter]

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[<<Genesis93>>]

If you read the reports from police it's not a zero pursuit policy. The call is made by a senior officer back at base whether to chase or not. This has been part of the policy for years. Experienced TOG police in the right type of vehicle are involved in pursuits daily. You might assume that these types of media reports are beat up no different to reports on gun crime.

I have no doubt the policy has always /for a long time, to call it in and get an OK for a green light to so speak....the policy behind the decision make has definitely changed, this is admitted by the police, call it no pursuit, call it limited pursuit call it the easter bunny....

but what the media beats up on the matter is really irrelevant once the police confirmed they didnt pursue a safe full of stolen guns.

[agentzero]

If you read the reports from police it's not a zero pursuit policy. The call is made by a senior officer back at base whether to chase or not. This has been part of the policy for years.

I'd be interested to know the criteria that has to be met for them to engage in a chase.

Seems to be all but unachievable in recent memory.

[happyhunter]

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[anthillinside]

Ah yes ... "limited pursuit policy" where the decision is made by "senior police" who are nowhere near the scene and somehow have an exact understanding of the current situation facing the acting officer.
Previously it was the officer on the spot making the decisions and keeping HO informed, HO might sugest calling it off but the acting officer was taken notice of.
Now ... lets report it , put in the paperwork in triplicate and wait for approval .... by which time the perp is probably halfway to WA.
A man without legs is able to perform a "limited pursuit"

[RealNick]

I think people are having a hollywood mentality when it comes to police and the car chase shoot em up bang bang response expected of them and the guns are adding an emotional element.

I've had a few conversations where that's clear too.

The other day we were talking about an older justified shooting when an office was attacked by a suspect in the states.

More than a few comments of "should have just shot him in the leg" like all the cops are Dirty Harry and can split a hair at 100 yards.

No idea about the reality of such a situation.

[<<Genesis93>>]

Almost a month later.....

http://www.vicpolicenews.com.au/news/86 ... house.html

"Police have released images of two men they would like to speak to following a burglary at a house in Blackburn South last month. ......"

"Local police spotted the car on Hawthorn Road near Blackburn Road and activated their lights and sirens however the car failed to pull over for police....."

I shall post the pics....unbelievable...

[KWhorenet]

What would be wrong with inconspicuous pursuit ?
Code name 'Trivial'

No alarming lights and sirens to get their fight or flight adrenaline pumping further.

Follow from afar whilst calling in back up.

[<<Genesis93>>]

Burglary at Blackburn South house

Friday, 11 December 2015 02:55

Police have released images of two men they would like to speak to following a burglary at a house in Blackburn South last month.

Investigators have been told two men used a jemmy bar to force open a garage door at the Holland Road property about 11am on Monday 16 November.

Once inside the garage, the pair stole a safe containing two firearms.

The offenders then carried the safe outside and placed it into the boot of a car, believed to be a silver coloured Volkswagon Passat sedan bearing stolen number plates.

The vehicle drove off and was last seen travelling east along Burwood Highway.

Local police spotted the car on Hawthorn Road near Blackburn Road and activated their lights and sirens however the car failed to pull over for police and took off at a fast rate of speed.

Police did not pursue the car.

Whitehorse Crime Investigation Unit detectives have released the below images of two men they believe may be able to assist with their enquiries.

One of the men is described as being Caucasian, aged in his 30s, approximately 170cm tall with a slim build.

He was wearing a black baseball cap, black jacket, blue jeans and red shoes with red gloves.

The second man is described as being Caucasian with a slim build.

He was wearing a black and white hooded jumper.

Anyone who can identify the men or who has any information about the incident is urged to contact Crime Stoppers on 1800 333 000 or submit a confidential crime report at www.crimestoppersvic.com.au

Kelly Grindley

Media Officer

46203

[anthillinside]

I'd recognise him anywhere, especially if he was traveling at "a fast rate of speed" ... exactly how fast would that be?, whow about a rough guess .. somthing above 40K?

[Deco]

Police have released images of two men they would like to speak to following a burglary at a house in Blackburn South last month.

I can think of an opportunity they had already to "speak" to them....

[<<Genesis93>>]

as expected this disappeared from the radar, rather quickly.....wonder if the owner was charged with something or other ...

I was reading today theres concern about the phasing out of 'pursuit' vehicles from local production, how can they replace the hot rod Falcon and Commodore V8 so they can chase the crims... theyre testing a $200,000 Mercedes V8 twin turbo all wheel drive....

..... but hang on, I though they no longer pursued criminals.... especially those in the act

[David Brown]

Prestige safe inspection no doubt.

[<<Genesis93>>]

VicPols new 'loaner' Non-Pursuit...pursuit vehicle.....


Mercedes-Benz GLE 63 AMG coupe
Price: $198,900
Engine: Twin turbo 5.5-litre V8
Transmission: 7-speed auto, all-wheel-drive
0 to 100km/h: 4.2 seconds
430kw / 570hp

I wonder how theyre deciding who gets the keys in the morning....

[happyhunter]

They must be swimming in money.

[AusTac]

They practically escort them down the road with stolen firearms and then we're the problem.. right

[chacka]

police... activated their lights and sirens however the car failed to pull over

f***ing hell.

That's nice that for criminals driving away with stolen firearms pulling over is optional

[Mr.Seacucumber]

There are so many people breaking into cars and taking them for a joy ride then burning them out afterwards in my town at night. Because I mean why not? The cops can't indetify them in the dark, they can't get any evidence from a burnt out vechial and they sure as hell cant chase them. This entire situation is just plain stupid, the public needs to realise criminals are criminals and have made thier decisions in life.

[adam]

Good to see that the Vic Government has finally worken up to this being a bad idea and has reversed their decision on their no pursuit policy.

It still leaves me scratching my head as to who they are listening to in the beginning for their advise. It really didn't take a high school certificate to figure out what the outcome of a 'No pursuit policy' would lead to...

[<<Genesis93>>]

Did they actually change the policy? Isn't the current policy that they will not say?
Either way, the victorians have been let down, by the Commie Vic Government (they now have an etensive list of failures) along with the police command. No pursuit, no jail, no community action (in response to home invasion hot spots) the CC even stated today on 3aw, that if your house is invaded... to call 000 and dont defend yourself!!!! FFS.

I'll have to find the audio...

[southwest shooter]

Did they actually change the policy? Isn't the current policy that they will not say?
Either way, the victorians have been let down, by the Commie Vic Government (they now have an etensive list of failures) along with the police command. No pursuit, no jail, no community action (in response to home invasion hot spots) the CC even stated today on 3aw, that if your house is invaded... to call 000 and dont defend yourself!!!! FFS.

I'll have to find the audio...

fight back if your lifes at risk , the cops are to busy eating maccas or donuts to come to your aid.

[adam]

fight back if your lifes at risk , the cops are to busy eating maccas or donuts to come to your aid.

Correction - too busy being told to police us for 'our safety' such as if we're not wearing a helmet whilst riding a bike, or doing 5kph over the limit.. but home invasions... I guess low down on their risk assessment priorities for the government to priorities Vicpol to address that area.

They seem to be very worried about our safety when it comes to some $'s to be made... but when it comes to real safety where criminals are involved... all a matter of time.

I don't blame the police. Anyone working a job where the boss backs them up 100% in one area, and leaves them out to dry in another will do what they're going to be commended and backed up for.

The government backs up the police completely when it comes to minor traffic infringements - both via policies, regulations and via media advertisement. But when it comes to dealing with repeat or violent criminals - they can't get them back out on the streets quick enough. Why would the police would bother when they're not backed up by the courts and government...

Interesting to hear that talk back radio says to dial 000... I wonder how many people are going to die over the next 24 months taking on that advise.