Another U.S Mass Shooting this morning

[brett1868]

At least 14 dead, Multiple gunmen still at large....

Can't wait to see how much we'll get beaten up by the anti's over this latest tragedy...

[Ed9362]

Won't be long now until Sam lee is carrying on about how we have to ban something in Australia to stop things that happen on the other side of the world.

In my opinion the Americans really need to do something to stop the violence that plagues their country. I think gun control would have very little effect even if the people wanted it. The United states is a wonderful country with lovely people, unfortunately there is a culture of violence which is made worse by the huge drug problem and the organized crime that goes along with it.

I think it is such a complex issue that it is almost impossible to solve, I rould really love to see the USA maintain it's current gun laws and achieve a more peaceful society like australia to prove once and for all, that guns are not the reason people want to hurt each other.

[adam]

Tragic what is happening in the US with this violence.

I agree with Ed9362 - something needs to be done, but gun control isn't it. They have so many guns already out there - if they ended up taking them away it would only be the law abiding that would end up having firearms reduced, which would most likely create a worse situation.

Guns have been part of the US since it's foundation. Violence has been increasing. The easy thing to do is to pretend to be doing good and bring in tougher gun control, which will have zero effect.

The difficult thing to do is to attack the real cause of the issue - evaluate what differences have changed in the country over the past number of decades that may be contributing to the root cause of this issue. But even this won't solve the current problem - it may only help to correct the issue for future generations.

As for drugs, it's not a losing war against drugs. The battle has been lost. The situation continues to get worse - completely out of control.

There is one solution I can think of but I don't like what it is - and I know many wouldn't like it either, but maybe the west needs to stop thinking that it's got it all together, and start looking at countries that have much less drug crime and see how they go about it.

Sadly things have gotten that far out of control I fear that only very harsh corrections can fix it.

However since both looking at what's changed over the past number of decades will be unpopular, and thoughts of having harsh penalties for drug crimes wont' even be allowed to be discussed - the only option is to play with other 'nice' ideas such as gun control which will have ill effect and the problem will continue to only get worse.

[southeast varmiter]

It's almost happening at a rate being planned until they get laws changed. Unbelievable

[Title_II]

Won't be long now until Sam lee is carrying on about how we have to ban something in Australia to stop things that happen on the other side of the world.

In my opinion the Americans really need to do something to stop the violence that plagues their country. I think gun control would have very little effect even if the people wanted it. The United states is a wonderful country with lovely people, unfortunately there is a culture of violence which is made worse by the huge drug problem and the organized crime that goes along with it.

I think it is such a complex issue that it is almost impossible to solve, I rould really love to see the USA maintain it's current gun laws and achieve a more peaceful society like australia to prove once and for all, that guns are not the reason people want to hurt each other.

You probably don't understand it very well. Keep in mind, the US is the black sheep of the UN and all the Socialists since we have a protected RKBA, which they want to get rid of. We always get painted in a bad light and usually down right lied about.

I have less of a chance of being murdered in a year than a Canadian. Black people are about 12% of our population, yet they are 50% of our murdered people. So you can cut my murder rate from <5/100,000 down to 2.5/100,000 right there. And I haven't even started with Hispanic gangs. A little more analysis and I could probably get close to the roughly 1/100,000 risk you face.

The truth is, there is a small minority of our population facing most of the murder risk from one another. BTW, without looking it up, our murder rate is about 250th out of 300 countries. That's overall murder rate. It's pretty low. Is Australia lower? Yes, it certainly is. But the US is not some sort of murder capitol, and it's safer for the majority of people (not involved in gangs.etc.) than Canada or much of Europe.

Regarding mass shootings, compared to Europe, Australia, and Canada (the only countries were are allowed to compare ourselves to apparently) our murder rate from mass shootings ranks about 5th. For worst mass shootings, we have two of the top five among Commonwealth Countries and EU, 5th and 3rd. You guys have the top two and number 4. On average it's 100 people per year in a country of 330 million people. We have 4,000 kids die in swimming pools every year. It's a great media story, but it ranks barely double being struck dead by lightning.

If you want to go talk to some US black or Latino gang members getting killed at the rate of 25-50/100,000 and fix that problem, good luck with it. Our government will fight you tooth and nail.

[disco2]

It's almost happening at a rate being planned until they get laws changed. Unbelievable

Can't help but agree with you Southeast.

I smell a rat in relation to all this.

Samantha Lee would sink to this level to get her wish, and I have no doubt that there are the Anti- Gunners in the USA who would perpetrate crimes of this level in order to get there wish,

Cheers

Disco

[Ed9362]

Correcting the murder rate for you personally is kinda flawed I think. In the end I think all statistics are bulls**t, anyone can manipulate them to show what ever they want.

like I said, I in no way believe that America should tighten its gun laws, I love going to your shooting ranges when ever I am over there. But unfortunately from what I have seen, you guys have a habit of killing each other. I would think that reducing the level of violence on the street would be something everyone would be interested in.

[Heckler303]

Annnd this happened in the most restrictive state when it comes to firearms


The gun control arguement is automatically invalid. Come up with a decent argument that relies on people, not inanimate objects and you get my support. That's what I say.

[Ed9362]

Are you talking to me? That's prety much what I have just said

[coloradoboy]

we are a big country with a big population and with land borders. we obviously have more problems and we have the world's media everywhere. I am sure if i let off some firecrackers in my yard - cnn is going sent a chopper to my house and vans following and some liberal headline grabber will follow.

It is all perception.

[valkyrie]

The us ranks 211 out of 250 for overall murder rate but much of that is thanks to cities like detroit which it it were a country would rank 2. Also happy accident here detroit has some of the strictest gun controls in the us

[Ed9362]

Val, do you think it would be fair to say that gun crime has more to do with poverty than guns?

[Baronvonrort]

California does have strict gun laws including bans on assault weapons and 50BMG despite the fact no crimes have been done with 50BMG, my American friends say if criminals could afford to shoot the 50BMg then crime must pay.

Lucky these innocent victims were in a gun free zone.

Obama is in Paris saying these types of mass shootings don't occur outside of the USA, he must have forgotten the recent shootings in Paris.

I haven't ruled out terrorist attack, the reports they were white does not discount this,the latest beheading video from the Caliphate was done by a white muslim beheading a white Russian.

[<<Genesis93>>]

Sorry, bit long;

It's almost happening at a rate being planned until they get laws changed. Unbelievable

naaaaah thats just silly talk.... next you'll say Sandy hook didnt happen, that it was a drill, and there were many parallels with Port Arthur, in purpose and intended outcome.... That both Paris attacks were not what we were lead to believe.....

As far as this Cali incident.... I just cant believe it could occur!!?? in the gun control capital of the USA,
( I'm of course assuming they used old trusty AK or Mr AR)
.......where theyve banned Ass-ault weapons (read semi-autos to most sane people).. They have even banned revolving shotguns (Taurus type!), and 50Brownings.... 2 firearms you can even get in Vic!

They can still own hunting type semis like the BAR and the Rem 750, and few other non-pistol grip types...

What could the gradtards possibly offer as a 'solution' when theyre already banned??
I'd say un-ban them.... both in Cali and Australia!!

This is the text of the ban, its a good read.... no really;

-----------------------------
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/

30510. As used in this chapter and in Sections 16780, 17000, and 27555, "assault weapon" means the following designated semiautomatic firearms:
(a) All of the following specified rifles:
(1) All AK series including, but not limited to, the models identified as follows:
(A) Made in China AK, AKM, AKS, AK47, AK47S, 56, 56S, 84S, and 86S.
(B) Norinco 56, 56S, 84S, and 86S.
(C) Poly Technologies AKS and AK47.
(D) MAADI AK47 and ARM.
(2) UZI and Galil.
(3) Beretta AR-70.
(4) CETME Sporter.
(5) Colt AR-15 series.
(6) Daewoo K-1, K-2, Max 1, Max 2, AR 100, and AR 110C.
(7) Fabrique Nationale FAL, LAR, FNC, 308 Match, and Sporter.
(8) MAS 223.
(9) HK-91, HK-93, HK-94, and HK-PSG-1.
(10) The following MAC types:
(A) RPB Industries Inc. sM10 and sM11.
(B) SWD Incorporated M11.
(11) SKS with detachable magazine.
(12) SIG AMT, PE-57, SG 550, and SG 551.
(13) Springfield Armory BM59 and SAR-48.
(14) Sterling MK-6.
(15) Steyer AUG.
(16) Valmet M62S, M71S, and M78S.
(17) Armalite AR-180.
(18) Bushmaster Assault Rifle.
(19) Calico M-900.
(20) J&R ENG M-68.
(21) Weaver Arms Nighthawk.
(b) All of the following specified pistols:
(1) UZI.
(2) Encom MP-9 and MP-45.
(3) The following MAC types:
(A) RPB Industries Inc. sM10 and sM11.
(B) SWD Incorporated M-11.
(C) Advance Armament Inc. M-11.
(D) Military Armament Corp. Ingram M-11.
(4) Intratec TEC-9.
(5) Sites Spectre.
(6) Sterling MK-7.
(7) Calico M-950.
(8) Bushmaster Pistol.
(c) All of the following specified shotguns:
(1) Franchi SPAS 12 and LAW 12.
(2) Striker 12.
(3) The Streetsweeper type S/S Inc. SS/12.
(d) Any firearm declared to be an assault weapon by the court pursuant to former Section 12276.5, as it read in Section 3 of Chapter 19 of the Statutes of 1989, Section 1 of Chapter 874 of the Statutes of 1990, or Section 3 of Chapter 954 of the Statutes of 1991, which is specified as an assault weapon in a list promulgated pursuant to former Section 12276.5, as it read in Section 3 of Chapter 954 of the Statutes of 1991.
(e) This section is declaratory of existing law and a clarification of the law and the Legislature's intent which bans the weapons enumerated in this section, the weapons included in the list promulgated by the Attorney General pursuant to former Section 12276.5, as it read in Section 3 of Chapter 954 of the Statutes of 1991, and any other models that are only variations of those weapons with minor differences, regardless of the manufacturer. The Legislature has defined assault weapons as the types, series, and models listed in this section because it was the most effective way to identify and restrict a specific class of semiautomatic weapons.
(f) As used in this section, "series" includes all other models that are only variations, with minor differences, of those models listed in subdivision (a), regardless of the manufacturer.




30515. (a) Notwithstanding Section 30510, "assault weapon" also means any of the following:
(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.
(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
(3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.
(4) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.
(B) A second handgrip.
(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning the bearer's hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.
(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.
(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
(6) A semiautomatic shotgun that has both of the following:
(A) A folding or telescoping stock.
(B) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon, thumbhole stock, or vertical handgrip.
(7) A semiautomatic shotgun that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine.
(8) Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder.


------------------------------------------

How about a pistol with a mag is a pistol, but thread the barrel and its an assault weapon....

Further example of gun control laws that protected the perpetrators ....

....I have less of a chance of being murdered in a year than a Canadian. Black people are about 12% of our population, yet they are 50% of our murdered people. So you can cut my murder rate from <5/100,000 down to 2.5/100,000 right there. And I haven't even started with Hispanic gangs. A little more analysis and I could probably get close to the roughly 1/100,000 risk you face.

The truth is, there is a small minority of our population facing most of the murder risk from one another. BTW, without looking it up, our murder rate is about 250th out of 300 countries. That's overall murder rate. It's pretty low. Is Australia lower? Yes, it certainly is. But the US is not some sort of murder capitol, and it's safer for the majority of people (not involved in gangs.etc.) than Canada or much of Europe.

Regarding mass shootings, compared to Europe, Australia, and Canada (the only countries were are allowed to compare ourselves to apparently) our murder rate from mass shootings ranks about 5th. For worst mass shootings, we have two of the top five among Commonwealth Countries and EU, 5th and 3rd. You guys have the top two and number 4. On average it's 100 people per year in a country of 330 million people. We have 4,000 kids die in swimming pools every year. It's a great media story, but it ranks barely double being struck dead by lightning.

If you want to go talk to some US black or Latino gang members getting killed at the rate of 25-50/100,000 and fix that problem, good luck with it. Our government will fight you tooth and nail.

As usual, title shines some reality on the American example, and help cut through the bovineexcrement...

The blacks (and hispanic, but to a lesser extent) are driving the violent crime stats in the USA, the FBI tells us that last year blacks represented 51% of murder victims while making up 13.2% of population, thats make it an almost 4x over representation.....

Yes, take the blacks and hispanics out of the equations, and the whites, which probably covers everything not black or hispanic....(no not the white Euro we might think of) would be a heck of a lot closer to the Australian, and many Western European rates.....

Breaking it down further, the most numerous age group for murder is 20-24 yrs, which comprises of 1414 Blacks (=65%!! or 5x over represented) while Hispanics are 374 victims.

^ That number of hispanics in the above, being the most violent, you would imagine 'gang crime vulnerable' age category works out to a very interesting percentage; I'll include the working to prove this, 374 / 2181 = 0.171 = 17% = exactly the proportion of Hispanics in the population........ hmmmmmm all those CSI shows and out of control Hispanic crime gangs.....

Weapons; 64 to 70% of the murders were by firearm...50% handgun, while around 2% were rifle...

So when you isolate the Black from the murder stats, the murder rate becomes 6095 in 42.1M pop = 14.5 per 100,000 similar to many South American or African nations.......... hmmmmm Certainly a very 'violently inclined' segment of the population you have there.

Lots of info there....
justifiable homicide by civilian 277,
justifiable homicide by Law enforcement 444 <death by cop



https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/c ... ed-offense

[sandgroperbill]

I think there will be more to this horrible and tragic story that will come out. I think it is likely that there will be some form of political or idealogical motivation behind it, that it is unlikely to be random, and therefore, will turn out to be some form of terrorism. Gun control would be unlikely to have some form of impact in these situations, as perpetrators will use whatever they can. But there is far too little information so far with which to form any understanding of what has happened, so I will reserve my judgements and not jump to any more conclusions until there is more information.

It is a terrible thing that has happened, and recent events worldwide have me scratching my head, angry, and feeling deeply sorry for the victims and families. I simply cannot understand how people can do such things.

edit: auto correct.

[Baronvonrort]

One of the suspects is Farooq Saeed.

[<<Genesis93>>]

01:50 GMT
Assistant Director from FBI Los Angeles David Dowdich said he is "still not willing" to say the attack was terrorism, though he said "it is a possibility." He also said the relationship between the two deceased suspects is unknown.

01:49 GMT
Police Chief Burgian said the suspects were dressed in "assault-style clothing," and armed with assault rifles and hand guns.
He said that police are dealing with "sensitive stuff" around the vehicle and are working to ensure it is safe from explosives.

01:47 GMT
Two suspects in relation to the shooting are dead, San Bernardino Police Chief Jarrod Burguan said at a press conference. Both people were in the SUV and engaged in a gun battle with officers, he said. One person was male and the other was female.
A third person was seen running away from the scene, Burguan said. This person has been detained, but it's unclear if they are related to the incident, he said.


Not likely a worker gone 'postal' , they dont usually bring along a bunch of mates on a suicide mission....
Given that they drove off, not your Allens Snackbar variety of 'suicide terrorist'

Hmmmm a woman too....

and..... we have a new variety of clothing look out for Borderfarce memo controlling all imports....

[<<Genesis93>>]

One of the suspects is Farooq Saeed.

Stay tuned to ISIS twitter feed.....

[Title_II]

Correcting the murder rate for you personally is kinda flawed I think. In the end I think all statistics are bulls**t, anyone can manipulate them to show what ever they want.

like I said, I in no way believe that America should tighten its gun laws, I love going to your shooting ranges when ever I am over there. But unfortunately from what I have seen, you guys have a habit of killing each other. I would think that reducing the level of violence on the street would be something everyone would be interested in.

So, if every single murder occurred in Tazmania, and exactly zero occurred on Mainland every year, you would tell me mainland Australia is dangerous?

Like I said, the US is not even dangerous overall compared to other countries. If you look at 80% of the population and 99% of our surface area, we rival most of the commonwealth.

I think it's kind of flawed to ignore the actual issues. But you have been propagandized.

[Baronvonrort]

ISIS and its supporters openly celebrated the mass shooting in San Bernardino that left 14 people dead and 17 injured.

www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2015/12/02 ... sacre.html

[Ed9362]

Correcting the murder rate for you personally is kinda flawed I think. In the end I think all statistics are bulls**t, anyone can manipulate them to show what ever they want.

like I said, I in no way believe that America should tighten its gun laws, I love going to your shooting ranges when ever I am over there. But unfortunately from what I have seen, you guys have a habit of killing each other. I would think that reducing the level of violence on the street would be something everyone would be interested in.

So, if every single murder occurred in Tazmania, and exactly zero occurred on Mainland every year, you would tell me mainland Australia is dangerous?

Like I said, the US is not even dangerous overall compared to other countries. If you look at 80% of the population and 99% of our surface area, we rival most of the commonwealth.

I think it's kind of flawed to ignore the actual issues. But you have been propagandized.

So you are saying that aside from all the gangs. The USA is a perfectly normal western country. The things is though. Every other country in the world has gangs. Given they are generally not as violent American gangs but that is sort of my point.

[Baronvonrort]

So you are saying that aside from all the gangs. The USA is a perfectly normal western country.

Having spent 2 years of my life living and working in the USA I would say it's a perfectly normal country, I never had any reason to be scared of anything or anyone.

My father left Australia to work in the USA 20 years ago and hasn't come back, he has an American wife and no desire to come back

[Ed9362]

I must agree I never saw any violence while I was over there but it is a big place. It just seems like a lot of s**t happens there. Either way if there is a problem then it is up to them to sort it out. I just hope it isn't at the cost of their gun rights

[Baronvonrort]

The intense media coverage of shootings makes people think gun crime is rising, firearm homicides have dropped by 49% since the 1990's while gun numbers have increased.

Despite the attention to gun violence in recent months,most Americans are unaware that gun crime is markedly lower than it was two decades ago.
A new PEW research center survey (march 14-17) found that 56% of Americans believe the number of crimes involving a gun is higher than it was 20 years ago, only 12% say it's lower and 26% say it stayed the same,An additional 6% did not know or did not answer.

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2013/05/ ... ic-unaware

I would say 100% of the antis here are unaware gun crimes have dropped 49% in the USA since 1993

[<<Genesis93>>]

The intense media coverage of shootings makes people think gun crime is rising, firearm homicides have dropped by 49% since the 1990's while gun numbers have increased.

Despite the attention to gun violence in recent months,most Americans are unaware that gun crime is markedly lower than it was two decades ago.
A new PEW research center survey (march 14-17) found that 56% of Americans believe the number of crimes involving a gun is higher than it was 20 years ago, only 12% say it's lower and 26% say it stayed the same,An additional 6% did not know or did not answer.

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2013/05/ ... ic-unaware

I would say 100% of the antis here are unaware gun crimes have dropped 49% in the USA since 1993

Has been trending down for a long time, but it is the inconvenient truth that doesnt fit the "gun crime out of control" narrative. The USA is one of the most populous nations, so with lots of humans.... human nature brings violence... unfortunately.. But every gun death is beaten to death in the media, conveniently overlooking all other deaths and forms of violence. Why is there no heart disease or cancer or road fatality epidemic??

The anti's 'at the top' , the Soros level, are well and truly 'in the know'.....

[brett1868]

Most countries have gang issues, Mexico is in the press at the moment after the bodies of 2 Aussie surfers were found in a burnt out van. South American gangs are on a whole different level but the violence there is so common place it's lost any newsworthiness. Let's go back to the 80's in Marrickville where the "Legends" actually opened fire on the police station and maybe some remember the Milperra Massacre, it's obvious gang related violence has been part of Australia for many years as well. The U.S like any country has it's good and bad areas like any country.
If the Australian Anti's jump on this latest tragedy in the U.S to push their disarmament agenda down here then I see it as them supporting ISIL by wanting to disarm the lawful and therefore is easier for ISIL to commit acts of terror.

[Heckler303]

I see it as them supporting ISIL by wanting to disarm the lawful and therefore is easier for ISIL to commit acts of terror.

I personally think that behind the scenes, those particular kinds of crooks are working to push the dissarmament agenda.

How would they not be? Control media, halal tax on food, PC brigade, appeasement, just more acceptance of something we should never accept.

[Baronvonrort]

Most countries have gang issues, Mexico is in the press at the moment after the bodies of 2 Aussie surfers were found in a burnt out van. South American gangs are on a whole different level but the violence there is so common place it's lost any newsworthiness. Let's go back to the 80's in Marrickville where the "Legends" actually opened fire on the police station and maybe some remember the Milperra Massacre, it's obvious gang related violence has been part of Australia for many years as well. The U.S like any country has it's good and bad areas like any country.
If the Australian Anti's jump on this latest tragedy in the U.S to push their disarmament agenda down here then I see it as them supporting ISIL by wanting to disarm the lawful and therefore is easier for ISIL to commit acts of terror.

Mexico has really strict gun laws, their firearm homicide rate is 3x higher than the USA, the antis never talk about the success of Mexicos strict laws.
www.mexperience.com/mexicos-strict-gun-laws

We had Saleh Jamal do a drive by shooting of Lakemba Police station back around 1998,which station did the legends shoot at was it Marrickville?

The drug trade causes a lot of gun crime, it's a multi billion dollar business with no legal recourse for deals that go bad so they usually resort to extreme violence to settle business disputes.
The nobel prize winning economist Milton Friedman has also spoken on how the government actually keeps drug cartels is business with the current laws.
A pretty good article on ending the drug war to cut gun violence-
www.cato.org/publications/commentary/en ... n-violence

The antis never talk about Arab gun culture, try google for Arab wedding gunfire

[on_one_wheel]

Based on what I see on the news, not a single person has been bashed to death in the USA all year .... I don't think there has been any stabbings either , just gun crime.

[happyhunter]

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