FUDDS the disease of the shooting community

[Rifle realist]

Knowing I will be branded a FUDD I will go out on a limb here & say I agree with Gwion . I have no problem with locking up things I regard as valuable. As far as the registration and licencing it could be better. On the other hand having spent the last 10 + years working in the construction industry, in the boom times, I shudder to think of some of the cashed up bogans being able to walk into a gun shop and putting their not so hard earned cash down and picking up whatever takes their fancy.a lot of the pastoralists have enough trouble with illegal shooters as it is.

[Norton]

If there are any other sports that the police decide when and where you can play them somebody please let me know?

Someone will have to get hurt with a soccer ball and maybe they'll step in for the "public good".

New zone templates and field officers for soccer?

[pajamatime]

Knowing I will be branded a FUDD I will go out on a limb here & say I agree with Gwion . I have no problem with locking up things I regard as valuable. As far as the registration and licencing it could be better. On the other hand having spent the last 10 + years working in the construction industry, in the boom times, I shudder to think of some of the cashed up bogans being able to walk into a gun shop and putting their not so hard earned cash down and picking up whatever takes their fancy.a lot of the pastoralists have enough trouble with illegal shooters as it is.

I like keeping my guns locked up and secured if not in use as well. Your definition of "bogan" gave me a chuckle though lol. I hate tattoos, they make people look dirty and angry but does that mean they aren't a fit and proper and should be prohibited from obtaining a firearms licence based on my opinion and or personal preference on what should and shouldn't be on someone elses skin and why? I think its a lesson we all need to learn! Law abiding citizens come from all walks of life and as long as they are fit and proper and keep to the high standard we lafos hold ourselves to who are we to deny them? because its a extra slippery slope if we do.

[happyhunter]

If there are any other sports that the police decide when and where you can play them somebody please let me know?

Someone will have to get hurt with a soccer ball and maybe they'll step in for the "public good".

New zone templates and field officers for soccer?

.. yeah, and a yellow card gets you 2 years prison or 45,000 dollar fine, or both

[Rifle realist]

Hi pajamatime
It not so much about appearances , as attitude over here in the West the only places we are able shoot are registered rifle ranges or private property with the owners consent. Consequently a supporting letter from either is a requirement when applying for a licence. My point is most of these people have no interest in joining a club to to shoot targets and are unlikely to be able procure a letter from a landowner. If there were no licencing requirement, we would have them driving around in their SS Ute with the jet ski towed behind and the arm covered in tough stickers out the window, looking for something to shoot with whatever piece of artillery they managed to pick up.
Not being facetious the drivel I have listened to on those work sites in the Pilbara chose my name on this site. Examples are " I am going to get a .338 LM " M y question have you used a rifle much. Answer "My mate has a.22". To my Uncle has a .223 that shoots dead flat to 1000 meters. My mate head shoots Roos on the run at 300 meters. my favorite is the muppet whose dads mate has a fully automatic revolver. These are some of the reasons why I support a form of licencing, our system is draconian,but it is not going to change. It keeps firearms out of the hands of people who would give us a bad name.
Regards
RR

[lole]

Someone will have to get hurt with a soccer ball and maybe they'll step in for the "public good".

New zone templates and field officers for soccer?

Hmm, a range needs an 8km backdrop zone or something for shooting .50 cal.

How far do you need for lobbing around a 8.65 calibre "projectile" lol.

[Baronvonrort]

If there were no licencing requirement, we would have them driving around in their SS Ute with the jet ski towed behind and the arm covered in tough stickers out the window, looking for something to shoot with whatever piece of artillery they managed to pick up.
These are some of the reasons why I support a form of licencing, our system is draconian,but it is not going to change. It keeps firearms out of the hands of people who would give us a bad name.
Regards
RR

I haven't heard anyone here saying licensing is a bad thing I reckon most agree it's essential to try and keep guns away from the criminals and mentally ill along with those who are stupid enough to have an AVO taken out against them.

I support fairly strict licensing and safe storage regulations, once upon a time I was ok with gun registration until I saw the evidence it does nothing to prevent or solve gun crimes and the money spent on registries would be better spent putting more police on the streets, the NSW police minister recently said greater than 97% of gun crimes were done with unregistered guns.

[Title_II]

If there were no licencing requirement, we would have them driving around in their SS Ute with the jet ski towed behind and the arm covered in tough stickers out the window, looking for something to shoot with whatever piece of artillery they managed to pick up.
These are some of the reasons why I support a form of licencing, our system is draconian,but it is not going to change. It keeps firearms out of the hands of people who would give us a bad name.
Regards
RR

I haven't heard anyone here saying licensing is a bad thing I reckon most agree it's essential to try and keep guns away from the criminals and mentally ill along with those who are stupid enough to have an AVO taken out against them.

It's a bad thing and I'm not most, apparently

[happyhunter]

If there were no licencing requirement, we would have them driving around in their SS Ute with the jet ski towed behind and the arm covered in tough stickers out the window, looking for something to shoot with whatever piece of artillery they managed to pick up.
These are some of the reasons why I support a form of licencing, our system is draconian,but it is not going to change. It keeps firearms out of the hands of people who would give us a bad name.
Regards
RR

I haven't heard anyone here saying licensing is a bad thing I reckon most agree it's essential to try and keep guns away from the criminals and mentally ill along with those who are stupid enough to have an AVO taken out against them.

It's a bad thing and I'm not most, apparently

I agree, because licensing fails to achieve it's purpose. I'd like to see evidence where licensing

keep guns away from the criminals and mentally ill along with those who are stupid enough to have an AVO taken out against them.

when every day in the news is a new story that proves otherwise.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/polic ... nfm3e.html

Guns, he said, are more readily available through thefts from homes, manufacturing and the internet. He said police have been finding firearm moulds in homes they have raided.

We already know theft from homes is a load of crap. Manufacturing is the new black.

[Gwion]

From Happyhunter's link above:

A Fairfax Media analysis has found the apex of the state's gun crime is an area of about 10 square kilometres around Broadmeadows, where 12 shootings have been recorded in less than 15 months.

A third of all the shootings this year have occurred in the area, which is loosely bordered by Sydney, Camp, Pascoe Vale, and Barry roads.

How so extraordinarily unsurprising.

Licensing keeps a legal restraint on criminals and the unstable from legally obtaining firearms. Of course, if they choose to pursue more nefarious means of obtaining firearms; having both the connections and the means; then licensing won't stop them.

Motor vehicle licensing does nothing to stop car thieves, either; i guess we don't need vehicular licenses, then.

Laws against murder don't stop the contract killer or enraged domestic dispute; so i guess they are pointless; let's strike them from the books as well.....

Assault laws don't prevent bashings, both in public and domestically; useless, let's abolish them!

[Baronvonrort]

If there were no licencing requirement, we would have them driving around in their SS Ute with the jet ski towed behind and the arm covered in tough stickers out the window, looking for something to shoot with whatever piece of artillery they managed to pick up.
These are some of the reasons why I support a form of licencing, our system is draconian,but it is not going to change. It keeps firearms out of the hands of people who would give us a bad name.
Regards
RR

I haven't heard anyone here saying licensing is a bad thing I reckon most agree it's essential to try and keep guns away from the criminals and mentally ill along with those who are stupid enough to have an AVO taken out against them.

It's a bad thing and I'm not most, apparently

I agree, because licensing fails to achieve it's purpose. I'd like to see evidence where licensing

keep guns away from the criminals and mentally ill along with those who are stupid enough to have an AVO taken out against them.

when every day in the news is a new story that proves otherwise.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/polic ... nfm3e.html

Guns, he said, are more readily available through thefts from homes, manufacturing and the internet. He said police have been finding firearm moulds in homes they have raided.

We already know theft from homes is a load of crap. Manufacturing is the new black.

The Americans in this forum can say the 2A is their gun license and any gun regulation is an infringement of their rights.

Licensing only stops criminals and the mentally ill from buying guns in gun shops, I think it would be near impossible to abolish licensing in Australia.

[Aussier]

I think it would be near impossible to abolish licensing in Australia.

We went without it once. We could do again.

Not saying we will, but we could.

[happyhunter]

From Happyhunter's link above:

A Fairfax Media analysis has found the apex of the state's gun crime is an area of about 10 square kilometres around Broadmeadows, where 12 shootings have been recorded in less than 15 months.

A third of all the shootings this year have occurred in the area, which is loosely bordered by Sydney, Camp, Pascoe Vale, and Barry roads.

How so extraordinarily unsurprising.

Licensing keeps a legal restraint on criminals and the unstable from legally obtaining firearms. Of course, if they choose to pursue more nefarious means of obtaining firearms; having both the connections and the means; then licensing won't stop them.

Motor vehicle licensing does nothing to stop car thieves, either; i guess we don't need vehicular licenses, then.

Laws against murder don't stop the contract killer or enraged domestic dispute; so i guess they are pointless; let's strike them from the books as well.....

Assault laws don't prevent bashings, both in public and domestically; useless, let's abolish them!

Murder and assault are voilent crimes. Gun ownership is not a crime. You are associating legally owning a gun with voilent crime. The point you are attempting to make is ridiculous.

[<<Genesis93>>]

Although I read it over and over and try to work out whether G2 is taking the P15S or seriously making a point...

Licensing keeps a legal restraint on criminals and the unstable from legally obtaining firearms

Obviously the crims take zero heed of the laws of the land. If there was no firearm licensing laws they would have firearms and use them to injure & kill others. With firearm licensing..... they do the same. The question is whether a proportion of the crims moderate their criminal activities DUE to the licensing and penalty regime?? no one can answer that but one thing is for sure; there are many many law abiding citizens who would without hesitation carry a firearm to protect the rest of the community, as well as themselves and their families from the criminal element.

As far;

Murder and assault are voilent crimes. Gun ownership is not a crime. You are associating legally owning a gun with voilent crime. The point you are attempting to make is ridiculous.

Well, we know this.... but the balance of society perhaps didnt get the memo.... we are by association linked, as with the latest Victorian firearm furor and calls for 'more stringent gun laws' we are the target of any action, and I'd put $5 on no more hardwood receptacles and higher standards for steel 'safes'.....after all, that would make it harder for the crims to access firearm, dont they ALL come from lawful owners (answer would be no, they dont)

But yes, lawful ownership is a crime, that why lawful owners, once licensed are placed on the CRIMINAL TRACKING DATABASE (aka CRIMTRAC, refer https://www.crimtrac.gov.au/) right?? They put YOUR photo, YOUR address, YOUR private detail, YOUR storage address and list in detail each and every firearm YOU own, right in their with each and every CONVICTED OR SUSPECTED CRIMINAL....... but you say 'we' are not crims?? perhaps not 'convicted'... yet... but certainly suspected; (why else would we need a gun, other than to shoot up road signs in the country, to murder protected wildlife during the night hours, to intimidate our competitor and shoot garage doors while slowly driving through the suburbs, right?) the 'system' suspected any one of the thoroughly vetted hunters or sporting shooters may err at any time, so to be safe (for the children, someone think of the children) we are conveniently pre-registered on the criminal system...mixed in with those violency criminals, and available to not only any national wide law enforcement officer, but, and most dont realise - available to ANY INTERPOL agency [thats International Police]

Yes. We are for all intents and purposes.....criminals.

[Gwion]

HH & Gen:

There is no inference that gun ownership is a crime.

The point being illustrated is that incessantly bleating that a laws do nothing to stop criminals breaking them is a futile argument in that it can be extrapolated to any law to the point of shear idiocy.

[<<Genesis93>>]

HH & Gen:

There is no inference that gun ownership is a crime.

The point being illustrated is that incessantly bleating that a laws do nothing to stop criminals breaking them is a futile argument in that it can be extrapolated to any law to the point of shear idiocy.

of course there the inference.... more than that the declaration that most punters never notice;

You want a licence? Then you're on the Crim database....
"But thats for 'crims'"....
Correct.

[Gwion]

To re-phrase: I was not inferring any such thing.

[Title_II]

HH & Gen:

There is no inference that gun ownership is a crime.

The point being illustrated is that incessantly bleating that a laws do nothing to stop criminals breaking them is a futile argument in that it can be extrapolated to any law to the point of shear idiocy.

Robbing a bank is a crime. There are laws against it.

Owning a gun is not a crime. Yet there are laws against it.

It's more than inference, it is a reality and a fact. Hope that simplifies it a bit.

And I won't stick my nose too far into this, I know these are your affairs. I love it when we agree and I am supportive, but I am cautious in advising you guys when I see you going off the rails because I know we have different cultures.

[Gwion]

There are not laws against owning a gun, there are laws governing the ownership of guns.

Big difference. There is no law that says you cannot own a gun, you just need a licence.

Last i checked, there was no bank robbers licence available in any state.

[Title_II]

I tried to help you get his point, but I do not believe I will. If you carry a gun in Australia you will go to jail. Same as if you robbed a bank.

The latter is a law designed to punish what you did, a crime. The former is designed to punish an innocent man for something he hasn't done, but maybe sort of could have, no crime. Perhaps if there was a bank around and he was into that.

[Heckler303]

If you carry a fun in Australia you will go to jail.

I'm putting that in my signature.

[Title_II]

If you carry a fun in Australia you will go to jail.

I'm putting that in my signature.

LOL, it was a mistake, but sadly also true if we want some gallows humor. I will edit

[happyhunter]

So far in this thread..

If you have tattoos you are not fit to own a gun.
If you drive a V8 ute you are not fit to own a gun.
If you do ride a jet ski you are not fit to own a gun.
.. and the whoppa.. it has been infered that gun ownership is a crime, just like murder.

It appears we have no shortage of fudds in the shooting community..and they have revealed themselves

[Gwion]

.. and the whoppa.. it has been infered that gun ownership is a crime, just like murder.
D

No, it hasn't. Of course that won't stop you from continuing to construe it in which ever way suits your argument.

You should go into politics or talk back radio. You seem to have the knack of obstinately ignoring reason in order to push a pointless barrow; you'd go well.

[<<Genesis93>>]

so...... can we start on gay marriage now??

[Title_II]

It sounds like they already are gay married and it's that time of the month for both.

Everybody please calm down. Say your piece and drop it. I know sometimes we need to argue a little, or try to explain things to one another, but it becomes clear fairly quickly when there is an intransigent disagreement and there is no reason to yell about it. We are all on the same side despite our disagreements, the antis are the ones we need to spend our anger on. All the energy wasted here could have been better well spent if you nagged your pollies, embarrassed a lying media agent, or educated a neighbor. Think of the progress that could be made. I know I fly off the handle from time to time but I try to catch myself when I notice. There is no win in ticking each other off or dividing us.

[Gwion]

All good. Just being clear about what I have and haven't stated or implied or inferred.

[Title_II]