News article on the Gold Coast

[David Brown]

Front page stuff.

Check the poll results.

http://www.goldcoastbulletin.com.au/new ... fd86680852

[Heckler303]

Blimey, that's actually pretty good. 77% now

It's good to see people not acting completely stupid regarding stuff like CC. I would also like to FOU to keep pushing for non-lethal self defense items alongside firearms, as that'll gain a lot more support if they keep the talk about pepper spray and tasers up there. It'd be popular with women for sure.

That was a pretty good article from what we see normally, except the last part with the comment by Michael Hart they just haaad to include.

Mosques? Yeah sure, lets build those, needle exchanges? Hell yeah! Sports Stores that sell to licensed firearm owners and archers? Ooh noo how horrifying!

[<<Genesis93>>]

Me, I would be the first to line up to get a concealed carry permit, I think its every responsible adult's duty to have the means to defend those around them, in ALL occurrences and situation. Leaving the plebs with just their bare hands for this purpose, by LAW, is nothing short of treasonous.

But as far as this proposal goes; Not the slimmest of chances. period.

The cart has been put before the horse;
We are not permitted to own a firearm for self defence.
We are not allowed to general carry a firearm (as opposed to 'carry' en route to a permitted use)

It is impossible to move to defensive + carriage, concealed or not. in one sudden change of heart by those who 'legislate' on firearms; the Police (what, you still beleive in the fantasy that gun laws is 'made in parliament'???

If a bill was even considered for drafting...... the Pol-union would absolutely revolt, they have NO TIME whatsoever for it, they have declared ANY firearm is a threat to their OH&S, they dont discern between the guns possessed by the crims or those possessed by the most upstanding members of our community....

[pajamatime]

Make a mature and polite splash on the facebook comments for the article and show your support. Don't be a fudd support legal firearms ownership for all legit reasons
Does not matter whether you prefer rifle or pistol, sport or self defense we are all in this together and we need to fight together across all fronts.

https://www.facebook.com/goldcoastbulletin/posts/10153411368707358?hc_location=ufi

make sure all links go out to all the forums please

edit: btw David I noticed you posted this on the AHV, lol lets see how it goes? I hate posting on the forums because its full of fudds

[David Brown]

Yes, it is a bit more crazy there, but it pays to keep an eye on all sectors

[David Brown]

I think the results speak for themselves.

[BBJ]

They do, but polls don't make legislation unfortunately.

[Releb]

Can be good for entertainment value though when some stupid Green posts a poll thinking they'll get a big ego stroke and only people with common sense vote and smash them

[adam]

“I have no issue with legal owners of firearms. But I will never support the right of people to carry concealed firearms,” Mr Hart said.

Isn't this from the same person who opposes having a legal and licensed firearm dealer in his electorate?!? no issues with legal owners of firearms my rear.

[adam]

Me, I would be the first to line up to get a concealed carry permit

I'd have my wife in as the first to line up for training and a permit for CC of pepper spray. I could wait a bit (I don't see a pervert fancying me, and if they did - I think I could hold my own ) - but seeing women being able to defend themselves from the perverts that are around really appeals to me big time as this is a situation that women are faced with every day.

I'm not opposed to the idea of citizens CC firearms either - but I'd like to see serious and ongoing situational training as a prerequisite at minimum. I think it'd be too easy for people without good training to let adrenaline get the better of them, and there's no coming back from a bullet.

We have the army reserve - maybe something similar with the police force for CC - have citizens with a certain level of training who know how to handle various situations.

In saying that, they don't seem to have a huge problem with CC in the USA so I might be wrong, but I'd still be more comfortable with some sort of mandatory training.

[Heckler303]

Me, I would be the first to line up to get a concealed carry permit

I'd have my wife in as the first to line up for training and a permit for CC of pepper spray. I could wait a bit (I don't see a pervert fancying me, and if they did - I think I could hold my own ) - but seeing women being able to defend themselves from the perverts that are around really appeals to me big time as this is a situation that women are faced with every day.

I'm not opposed to the idea of citizens CC firearms either - but I'd like to see serious and ongoing situational training as a prerequisite at minimum. I think it'd be too easy for people without good training to let adrenaline get the better of them, and there's no coming back from a bullet.

We have the army reserve - maybe something similar with the police force for CC - have citizens with a certain level of training who know how to handle various situations.

In saying that, they don't seem to have a huge problem with CC in the USA so I might be wrong, but I'd still be more comfortable with some sort of mandatory training.

In the U.S I'm fairly certain the states that have CC permits, the occupant has to go through training and regulation, being taught the rules of when to draw or not draw e.t.c

https://www.frontsight.com/courses/conc ... course.asp


Expensive maybe, but life is worth more than a mere few plastic notes.

[adam]

In the U.S I'm fairly certain the states that have CC permits, the occupant has to go through training and regulation, being taught the rules of when to draw or not draw e.t.c

https://www.frontsight.com/courses/conc ... course.asp


Expensive maybe, but life is worth more than a mere few plastic notes.

Good stuff - thanks for the info and link!

[<<Genesis93>>]

Me, I would be the first to line up to get a concealed carry permit

I'd have my wife in as the first to line up for training and a permit for CC of pepper spray. I could wait a bit (I don't see a pervert fancying me, and if they did - I think I could hold my own ) - but seeing women being able to defend themselves from the perverts that are around really appeals to me big time as this is a situation that women are faced with every day.

I'm not opposed to the idea of citizens CC firearms either - but I'd like to see serious and ongoing situational training as a prerequisite at minimum. I think it'd be too easy for people without good training to let adrenaline get the better of them, and there's no coming back from a bullet.

We have the army reserve - maybe something similar with the police force for CC - have citizens with a certain level of training who know how to handle various situations.

In saying that, they don't seem to have a huge problem with CC in the USA so I might be wrong, but I'd still be more comfortable with some sort of mandatory training.

My wife would be the first to apply, heck, she would carry her lever action long arm OC!....
Personally, I find is disgusting that the women especially are specifically prohibited from carrying a means of self defence.... it says a lot about our legislators(with armed guards) along with their advisors, the police with side arms for THEIR self defence.....

[Heckler303]

Me, I would be the first to line up to get a concealed carry permit

I'd have my wife in as the first to line up for training and a permit for CC of pepper spray. I could wait a bit (I don't see a pervert fancying me, and if they did - I think I could hold my own ) - but seeing women being able to defend themselves from the perverts that are around really appeals to me big time as this is a situation that women are faced with every day.

I'm not opposed to the idea of citizens CC firearms either - but I'd like to see serious and ongoing situational training as a prerequisite at minimum. I think it'd be too easy for people without good training to let adrenaline get the better of them, and there's no coming back from a bullet.

We have the army reserve - maybe something similar with the police force for CC - have citizens with a certain level of training who know how to handle various situations.

In saying that, they don't seem to have a huge problem with CC in the USA so I might be wrong, but I'd still be more comfortable with some sort of mandatory training.

My wife would be the first to apply, heck, she would carry her lever action long arm OC!....
Personally, I find is disgusting that the women especially are specifically prohibited from carrying a means of self defence.... it says a lot about our legislators(with armed guards) along with their advisors, the police with side arms for THEIR self defence.....

Couldn't agree more. Somehow, I suspect sometime in the future (though I pray that there never be a case) that there will be an horrendous event that happens, whether it be to one person or to 15, it would be then they would take notice.

[Mr.Seacucumber]

I think people should watch this video before they make a decision https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5U4bAO0E6U

[VICHunter]

Blimey, that's actually pretty good. 77% now

Now 79%

[Angel]

It's up to 78.58% now.

[Jandamurra]

On the topic of CC, I would like to make a couple of quick comments.
If there were a lot of problems with it in the US, the media would be all over it by now. It would now firmly be part of received wisdom that CC causes more trouble than not, and that would be one of the "facts" your typical uninformed, brainwashed Australian would use to justify not making the effort to change their opinion. I know, because I sometimes unwisely try to convince typical uninformed, brainwashed Australians that CC would be a good idea. More fool me.
I do get people saying that having a weapon would only make things worse. That's something that seems to be baked in good and hard.They seem to think an attacker will be more aggressive if someone has a weapon. They don't seem to be able to get their heads around the possibility that an attacker won't attack if the potential victim has a weapon. If an attacker goes for an old lady who has a baseball bat, which is not much of a weapon, then possibly the brute might make her life harder if she puts up any resistance, so there is a kernel of truth in what they say. However, if the old lady has a gun, the crim will likely not go anywhere near her, and even a baseball bat might be enough. Then again, the old lady's attacker may be intent on doing her as much harm as he can, in which case, she won't make it any worse for herself if she hits him.
What we have, then, are a number of possible outcomes, only one of which is negative for our theoretical old lady.

If I ever argue with people about this again, I will ask them why police have weapons if weapons only make things worse-or the military, for that matter.

[Heckler303]

If I ever argue with people about this again, I will ask them why police have weapons if weapons only make things worse-or the military, for that matter.

I've always agreed too, the threat of violence is a deterrent to violence itself.

[scotty87]

There is a series on YouTube called first person defender which places people with CC/OC in scenarios with actors to see how they respond to different levels of threat then assess the response.

[Gwion]

If I ever argue with people about this again, I will ask them why police have weapons if weapons only make things worse-or the military, for that matter.

People have a tendency to take things completely out of context, or just a snippet with no supporting background and then believe it as cold hard fact.

In this case, they are taking the fact that many people are known to have their own weapon used against them in an assault. This is because many people are under the delusion that simply having the weapon and some vague idea how to use it gives them the protection they need. The reality is that to successfully defend your self with any weapon you need three things:
1/ the weapon
2/ effective training in it's proper use and application
3/ the willingness and ability to use it effectively in a necessary situation.

Many, many people do not have the 2nd &/or 3rd requisites and some simply will never acquire them. In these cases, having a weapon does indeed 'just make things worse', because if the attacker was previously unarmed, they have now just been armed by and ineffective display of weaponry.

It is actually well documented by many law enforcement agencies but is very poorly understood by the general public.

[GLS_1956]

I wish you all well in getting a CCW permit law passed. I've had mine for about 5 years now but let me clue you into a few things about a concealed weapon, first they are a pain to carry, you have to dress around the weapon and with Australia's restriction on firearms, handguns specifically, you do not have the options that I do here in the USA. My preferred carry gun is a full sized 1911 in 45ACP, but people it is for the most part a winter gun, but the 5 inch barrel and full length grip frame is a bear to conceal. The 2 inch barreled 38 snub nose is easier to stash but with its steel frame and a couple of reloads it still hits the scales close to 2 pounds. My default gun is a 1 1/2 inched barreled 22 magnum mini-revolver that fits in a watch pocket but the grip and sights are so tiny that I'm sure only for the first shot, and it will be under 15 foot distance with follow up shots being timed in seconds and not tenths and hundredths of a second while a reload would be timed with an hour-glass. But in the long run the old saying that: "Carrying a gun is supposed to be comforting, not comfortable." runs true.

[vexesus]

It is actually well documented by many law enforcement agencies but is very poorly understood by the general public.

Nothing a little education wouldn't fix but people don't care to learn.

I'm not an expert or instructor or anything in this but you can see the mentality in a lot of people, especially yanks, when they pick up a pistol or talk anything about defence really, that they start feeling like Rambo and that's that... Or so they think.

[Jandamurra]

@vexuses
Not all yanks are braggers but they tend to be, and part of that is to talk tough. Sure, I'll concede that, but has it resulted in a bloodbath when gun laws were relaxed over there?
No, it hasn't, because this whole yanks-are-big-talkers thing has its limits.
Even most of the big talkers know how to be responsible with guns, otherwise we'd have seen an increase and not a decrease in violence after carry laws were liberalised over there.
You and Gwion seem to think you need to be some sort of SAS person to be able to carry in a safe and effective way. Of course safety is paramount, but IMHO there is such a thing as putting too much emphasis on training. I know that could come out all wrong but there, I said it.
Before the Glorious Revolution of 1996, members of the public the police considered to be sufficiently at risk because of domestic violence or some other reason were temporarily lent a handgun. I don't know precisely what kind of training was involved, but I imagine an officer took them through the basics for an hour or two. A useful basic level of ability to defend oneself with a gun is not rocket science after all.
They didn't seclude them in some ninja academy for two years on a diet of bread and water or something.
BTW I wonder how much training our hypocrite pollies get with their self-defence guns.

[vexesus]

Hey Jandamurra,

I never said anything like you need to be trained special forces, I said "a little education".

My point was more that in the states there is an over abundance of 'tough guy' mentality and persona.

Like the signs people put up with pictures of firearms and slogans like "This house doesn't call 911", "Make my day" or some other challenge or dare to break into the given household.

Home and self defence is obviously a serious thing, and being forced to shoot someone in a defence situation would be a horrible, horrible thing. I realise most of the signs and bravado are done jokingly, but I don't think there is any call or place for daring someone to try something or glorifying shooting an intruder.

I'm not arguing against self defence in any way, but it's serious thing and should be approached with respect, not bravado.

[Jandamurra]

@ vexesus
I didn't put words into your mouth and I'd appreciate it if you didn't put them in mine.
You said "a little aducation". Well, so did I!
Re-read my post.
If you do in fact realise those signs are bravado mainly, then I fail to see what you're worrying about.
I don't know about you, but I'd prefer to be joking about popping a cap in some criminal's ass than joking about having my wife and children raped and murdered. But that's just me.
Anyway, do you have any idea how much training was required to be allowed a handgun for self-defence in Australia before the post-PAM laws were brought in?