Alpha Chang

[Heckler303]

http://www.smh.com.au/comment/tighter-g ... k#comments

I can't read too far in, the article is overflowing with biased emotion and anti-gun agendas.

I would say to Alpha, the revolver acquired was a .38 SW which he got from a middle eastern CRIME GANG after visiting a mosque. He then brings it back, and commits the act of which he did with it, so suddenly you believe restricting us further could have stopped it?

[adam]

I wouldn't be calling him out. I'd be encouraging him for wanting to fight gun crime, and more importantly imploring him not to waste the opportunity he has...

His end goal, and ours are the same - less gun related crime, and it's that imploring him not to waste the opportunity he has where I believe the key is...

I'd be encouraging him to be very careful what he promotes. There has been a huge waste of resources and money already with gun laws - but what is worse, is that the politicians, media, and other authorities have sit back after Howard's new laws and given themselves a pat on the back thinking they've done a good job - in reality it has done very little for gun crime. A huge waste of resources, police, and finance for little effect.

It's a sad truth that his fathers death may have even been contributed to by the authorities because they continue to focus and commit resources to the wrong areas bragging of their success.

An opportunity was wasted back then to be effective, and Chang runs the same risk if he goes down the same path. I believe he has the best of intentions, just the wrong advise and understanding.

We as LFAO's need to show that we are sympathetic to victims of gun crime - and that we care as much - if not more than GCA, the greens, the media, etc. But that our caring is more practical and not just emotionally based, responding with more practical and better suggestions than those others.

He has a voice, and an audience at the moment. If he wants to be effective (and it sounds like he's willing to listen to the other side which is a huge plus) - then a real and practical solution could be put forward by the legal firearm community. Not just one saying he doesn't know what he's doing, or isn't bright - but getting along side him, and steering his passion and concern in the right direction.

The target needs to be illegal gun crime. Laws don't affect them, but penalties do - and this is what needs to be made all the more clearer.

Strewth, I've been told if someone poaches abalone, they run the risk of losing their boat, their trailer, their car. So - one suggestion is to introduce similar penalties to these criminals If criminals use firearms in a crime, they should lose everything they own. The lot. (I'm not talking about a LFAO who makes a small oversight - which is where most of the laws are directed at the moment - I'm talking about serious crime and criminal gangs).

Police need to be backed when they bust into criminals and find firearms. More task forces for identifying the importing sources, and dealing with it effectively. Free up LRD to put resources where it would be better spent. Let's get some good ideas to put forward that will be effective. Much better than letting the Greens and GCA put forward stupid ideas that have no effect but hurt us.

We can either fight Chang and people who have concerns like him - or we can help them to put their passion, concerns and effort in the right direction where they will be more effective - which would be better for everyone involved. (Except gun grabbers, and criminals).

[<<Genesis93>>]

...proceeded to shoot his victims in quick succession with a semi-automatic rifle" Reading straight off the GCA script,

.....when guns end up in the wrong hands. There is widespread belief that the gun control measures introduced post-Port Arthur largely eradicated illegal guns in Australia.

This guy is truly a victim of the 'professional victim psychopathy syndrome' (ok, I just invented that particular syndrome), he's been sucked in to the GCA bandwagon and they will milk 'his' story for all its worth and MORE.... does anyone in this land actually believe the 96 plan was meant to eradicate all illegal guns, maybe some, the old banger the crooks could get some quick cash....the inconvenient FACT is that of the almost 700,000 firearms handed in - a small proportion of those were the fabled 'semi auto', most of them rimfire..... of ALL the semi's handed in, I would put money on the vast majority of those being possessed by law abiding farmers and sport shooters....

He says 'more' needs to be done about firearm theft.... Well yes it does, and it would help if the police would do something, enforce some laws other than random inspection and PURSUE CRIMS when they steal safeloads of guns (refer Blackburn gun theft when VICPOL sit in their cruiser and watched the thieves drive away....

First, there should be fewer guns.

I'm reading no further.

[knowsnothin]

What happened to his father was an appalling crime against an innocent man. I do feel for him and his family.
Sad to see he is being lead down the garden path.
Interesting that he wants an amnesty on guns.
Maybe a targeted amnesty?
He could make a personal public appeal to radicalised islamists and wannabe gangsters to hand in their illegal weapons.

[juststarting]

And my favourite, as always, the comments section:

This is an excellent article with strong evidence and good analysis underlain by heartfelt personal tragedy. But I don't understand why shooting should be regarded as a sport and why we need laws to pander to people who regard shooting as some form of recreation.

[brett1868]

Some interesting points and not all bad....lets play a word game and swap Gun for Car and Shooting Victim for motorcyclist....puts a whole new perspective on it although the results are similar. Lets start banning cars to protect the motorcyclists, a blanket ban that punishes the responsible drivers along with the irresponsible but hey, that's ok cause it'll protect all motorcyclists. Far more motorcyclists are killed by cars doing the wrong thing than people by firearms yet little is done to punish the drivers, in fact it's us motorcyclists that get punished by having to pay more of our 3rd party insurance. I'd bet the farm he's been coached on what to say or had words put in his mouth cause it's way too similar to all the other anti firearm rhetoric spewed forth as gospel by the ignorant.

[Heckler303]

And my favourite, as always, the comments section:

This is an excellent article with strong evidence and good analysis underlain by heartfelt personal tragedy. But I don't understand why shooting should be regarded as a sport and why we need laws to pander to people who regard shooting as some form of recreation.

I read that too. I also cringed just like everybody else who read it here.

[Heckler303]

What happened to his father was an appalling crime against an innocent man. I do feel for him and his family.
Sad to see he is being lead down the garden path.
Interesting that he wants an amnesty on guns.
Maybe a targeted amnesty?
He could make a personal public appeal to radicalised islamists and wannabe gangsters to hand in their illegal weapons.

Walk in with an AK, walk out with camel? trade in your mag, get a stag?

[knowsnothin]

Walk in with an AK, walk out with camel? trade in your mag, get a stag?

Perrlease.
Those 'Australia post' glock 19's have got to be worth 15 virgins. each.

[juststarting]

Heckler303, I also cringed when I read few comments from different fools about buy-back. What do they expect? Yes, hello, I am a criminal and I'd like to surrender my weapon..

[Baronvonrort]

And my favourite, as always, the comments section:

This is an excellent article with strong evidence and good analysis underlain by heartfelt personal tragedy. But I don't understand why shooting should be regarded as a sport and why we need laws to pander to people who regard shooting as some form of recreation.

Try reading the comments in this one.

http://www.catallaxyfiles.com/2016/04/0 ... ave-failed

[happyhunter]

His end goal, and ours are the same - less gun related crime, and it's that imploring him not to waste the opportunity he has where I believe the key is...

My goal is to break the idea that gun ownership is some how linked to crime.

[Heckler303]

Heckler303, I also cringed when I read few comments from different fools about buy-back. What do they expect? Yes, hello, I am a criminal and I'd like to surrender my weapon..

The fact they breed is the worst of it all.

[<<Genesis93>>]

His end goal, and ours are the same - less gun related crime, and it's that imploring him not to waste the opportunity he has where I believe the key is...

My goal is to break the idea that gun ownership is some how linked to crime.

That would be quite a task.... but it would have to start with removing firearm licence holders details from the criminal tracking database....

[Heckler303]

His end goal, and ours are the same - less gun related crime, and it's that imploring him not to waste the opportunity he has where I believe the key is...

My goal is to break the idea that gun ownership is some how linked to crime.

That would be quite a task.... but it would have to start with removing firearm licence holders details from the criminal tracking database....

AND establishing a decent organization which fully embodies shooting sports, hunting and the last of our gun rights we still have. Proving to the general public again that we are and never have been the problem.

[zobster]

I feel for alpha but what he said is unrelated to the matter at hand. Exactly like what the drug laws are trying to achieve. Banning/outlawing/restricting anything isn't going to solve the problem.

[happyhunter]

Where is it written I should have sympathy for some dude I don't kknow, will never meet? Is this meant to be some type of collective guilt that sucks up to the anti crowd hoping they change their anti gun agenda?

[adam]

Where is it written I should have sympathy for some dude I don't kknow, will never meet? Is this meant to be some type of collective guilt that sucks up to the anti crowd hoping they change their anti gun agenda?

Empathy (which I think you're more referring to) is a basic human skill. As for where it is written - well, according to various psychiatric associations documentation lack of empathy is one of the more striking features of people with narcissistic personality disorder.

Empathy isn't a weakness - and doesn't mean that you're sucking up to other people. And with lack of it - well, personally I just hope that I never see anyone with lack of empathy on TV representing LFO's. It'll do far more harm than good.

If I want someone to be considerate of me, I figure it's reasonable for them to expect the same in return, but it seems as though I was brought up with older values that aren't appreciated or shared as much these days.

[Blackened]

A few posts edited here now.

Keep the disagreements and criticism constructive, no more slinging names/insults.

[Blackened]

Blackened perhaps you didnt catch his performance ?

[happyhunter]

Where is it written I should have sympathy for some dude I don't kknow, will never meet? Is this meant to be some type of collective guilt that sucks up to the anti crowd hoping they change their anti gun agenda?

Empathy (which I think you're more referring to) is a basic human skill. As for where it is written - well, according to various psychiatric associations documentation lack of empathy is one of the more striking features of people with narcissistic personality disorder.

Empathy isn't a weakness - and doesn't mean that you're sucking up to other people. And with lack of it - well, personally I just hope that I never see anyone with lack of empathy on TV representing LFO's. It'll do far more harm than good.

If I want someone to be considerate of me, I figure it's reasonable for them to expect the same in return, but it seems as though I was brought up with older values that aren't appreciated or shared as much these days.

I know what empathy is and it is easily manipulated, which is exactly what the anti crowd are doing. In regards to the gun debate we should be attempting to get people to think rationally, not emotionally.

[<<Genesis93>>]

The sad thing is an innocent guy was killed ... arguably as a direct result of 'our' foreign national policy... decided by maybe 6 individuals....not necessarily in this country... so that 'we' could play with the big boy...and bishop could talk tough from behind obama...

Unfortunately any such death is fodder for the greens and gca.... they could have only hoped he was shot with a semiauto

[Gwion]

So a long standing tradition of racial and religious intolerance in Australia has absolutely nothing to do with any of these issues.....

Better to blame immigration than to address issues in the Australian culture, right?

Just for a minute: imagine you grew up in a country that your parents or grand parents had immigrated to because, for instance, Australia was invaded and life was no longer tenable here ..... & 7 days out of ten, for your entire life, people called you a 'roo rooting, wombat shagging, pie munching, lazy, good for nothing, free loading Thong Wearer. Now. Imagine that when ever you tried to defend yourself from this, the locals got physically violent with you. Imagine you fought them when they harassed and disrespected your sister and mother. Imagine this all started as young as 5 years old.
So, given this situation: how hard do you think it would be for some extremist Pie & Thong Religious Zealots to get hold of you and radicalise you to fight against those who have put you down your whole life?

Now, before anyone spouts about how this is not what happens in Australia and we are all very accepting and open to other cultures, etc, et.al: my mother was a WHITE immigrant who was CHRISTIAN and even she experienced cultural persecution, harassment and abuse in her formative years in Australia and it was severe enough for her to remember it and tell us (her kids) about it and ensure that we were never part of it, on either side. I believe it affected her until the day she died.

Xenophobia is rife in Australia and is a large contributor to the radicalisation of young, disenfranchised individuals.

[Gwion]

The sad thing is an innocent guy was killed ... arguably as a direct result of 'our' foreign national policy... decided by maybe 6 individuals....not necessarily in this country... so that 'we' could play with the big boy...and bishop could talk tough from behind obama...

Unfortunately any such death is fodder for the greens and gca.... they could have only hoped he was shot with a semiauto

Re-reading this, i see you may be referring to our involvement is the unnecessary, illegal and un-restrained waging of war across the world. This i would agree with. However, my last post still stands.

[adam]

I know what empathy is and it is easily manipulated, which is exactly what the anti crowd are doing. In regards to the gun debate we should be attempting to get people to think rationally, not emotionally.

Agreed. But that doesn't mean we need to completely disconnect or disregard what victims are going through, or attack the person themselves. I believe attacking someone's logic and policy is effective and helpful - and I'm completely behind you on that. But I'm opposed to people attacking a person themselves (especially a victim) as I believe it is at the least counter productive and actually helps and feeds the fuel of GCA and their emotional plee.

I mean - (and being a firearm owner myself) - the message I was getting from some of the posts on this forum is that gun owners care more about keeping our guns than the victims of terrorism. I'm assuming that this is not the message that you were intending to portray, but if I was getting that I can only wonder what someone with no firearms experience would think.

Alternatively, I believe there would be more benefit in showing people we're not heartless gun lovers, but we actually care about victims - and that is actually part of the reason why we want to tear down these bad GCA policies. Yes we want to get focus away from targeting LFO's on real crime - but not just so we keep our guns - so that we can all make a positive difference that might help in the future - instead of pretending which is what the government did in the wake of PA.

Unfortunately any such death is fodder for the greens and gca.... they could have only hoped he was shot with a semiauto

Yes - it doesn't take a stretch of the imagination to think that behind closed doors that some of the greens and GCA's would have been jumping for glee that another firearm was used by a terrorist so they could further their cause and get more people 'on side' (especially if there's another election coming).

I believe that Alpha Chang's fathers death was contributed to indirectly by JH, GCA and the Greens. Innefective changes to our laws that only targeted law abiding people, and then the naievity to think that people were safer from criminals as a result.

And now, Alpha has unfortunately being sucked into believing their propaganda and now is unwittingly potentially assisting crime in the same way - by further promoting the targeting the wrong group, and wanting more focus on innefective laws that hurt LFO's and not criminals.

How helpful would it be if there were some victims that had an organisation to come forward to that would help expose the real issue at hand. Not just to us LFO's - but to the country in general - potentially reducing the number of future deaths?

Guys - I might disagree with you, and even challenge you in a number of areas - but please don't mistake me as being your enemy. I live with the thought that it's far better to be challenged by someone who shares your concerns so that we can all improve than attacked by someone who is straight out against you that wants to pull you down.

[Blackened]

Blackened perhaps you didnt catch his performance ?

Posts were brought to my attention regarding other terms, I did gloss over the original content and missed what you previously quoted.

Now removed also.