Think Tank: How can we reduce gun crime?

[Title_II]

Crimes involving guns have been on the decline for decades. The illegal drug trade and poverty are the biggest cuases of crimes, including crimes where guns are used. Legalise drugs and reduce poverty are the obvious solutions and would dramatically decrease most types of crime.

Secondly, The OP is showing why he is really here. Agitator.

No matter how low crime becomes in Australia, people will show up saying they have to reduce it. It will involve punishing both legal citizens and criminals, "criminals" including law abiding citizens that just got swept up in the law for arbitrary reasons. I know in the USA, generally speaking, only law abiding citizens are convicted of "gun crimes." Several years in jail for a mistake. Rob a liquor store with a gun and the gun charges are the first thing to go away, you do a few months in jail instead.

It will NEVER be enough for the people that want to take your rights. Australia could have the lowest crime rate of any nation on Earth, and they will still come back and want to pass more laws that do nothing.

Australia's murder rate is very, very low. Yet somehow it's a "problem" that requires the government to come after everyone. It will never end.

[adam]

Reduce it to what rate? You say there is a problem, what is the goal?

Actions and measures are not goals. State the goal.

That's a fair point: My goal is simple, and that is to get the focus onto the real problem - criminals, and away from pointless tasks that won't do any good, but only harm LFO's.

At present the way I see it criminals are mostly getting a free run. Because GCA, the Greens and JH (from herein refered to as Gungrabbers) are too busy targeting us and fighting with us, and we're too busy defending ourselves and targeting them. The criminals are left with little to no attention on them to continue as they want.

There's another problem. People who have been affected by gun crime, or are concerned about gun crime only see one group of people that are trying to do anything about it - the gun grabbers. They have no option to back anyone else, so by default they fall into the gun grabbers hands.

When they look at LFO's they see us as a problem - in part because we're seen to show little concern about the crime, and more concern about our rights. They see us as the enemy because we're unsympathetic towards their concerns and fight them at every turn, and we offer no alternative to them. We're seen as only wanting to stop or hinder them.

I've had a chat to a number of people who are concerned about gun crime. I believe if they had another option or organisation to back that had better ideas many would. But there is no alternative option?

So my thought is to see whether or not there are other options. Who knows - maybe even an opportunity to create another group. One that isn't based on ignorance, emotion and other agenda's, but one that can come up with effective measures that will not hurt LFO's doing the right thing but have significant impact against crime. One that can see the concerns of those worried about gun crime, and at the same time also see the concerns about LFO's and come up with campaigns that help everyone involved.

This would help those wanting to target guncrime without having to back the gungrabbers. This would help LFO's not only by getting the target off our backs, but also hopefully dealing far harsher with those who would break into our houses and steel our firearms. And hopefully this would help have an impact into gun crime as well. (Or at the very least stop some of those scumbags from reoffending).

But to get there first we need to have better solutions to put forward.

At present, we're simply fighting amongst each other. Give the gun grabbers a different enemy to go after, and the solutions. (Let's face it, at present they're too ignorant, emotional, etc to see outside of targeting LFO's with their agenda to help themselves)... so instead of fighting them, why not steer them in a different direction.

It's far easier to change the direction of a moving object than it is to stop and reverse it...

[<<Genesis93>>]

Putting all the political nonsense to the side....

I will qualify what follows by stating I have zero interest in drugs and classify those who use, whether recreationally (whatever that means)as severely laking in substance of life and judgement....

However, I firmly believe that the only way to reduce (with the view to removing as far as practically possible) ALL VIOLENT crime from our society; is to regulate the trade in all chemical substances identified as those used/traded/manufactured in the drug trade.

By Regulation I mean the controlled manufacture distribution and TAXATION......

It would remain an offence to use or be intoxicated in public, to steal, to assault etc..... so do it in the privacy of some place with a product that is quality controlled and taxed......

Is this a ridiculous idea? maybe, I know the first response by the hypnotised masses will be "...you can't legalise drugs society will implode..think of the children"..... well, theyve be illegal until now, and hows that experiment going??

We've got to a point where hospitals are calling for separate emergency rooms for ice users! not to mention the violence attributed ust to this one group of substances....

[Title_II]

Still no goal. Which country's crime rates do you wish to match? What is the goal?

Stop proposing government oppression simply for the sake of it. That makes no sense.

I'll try to bow out now, since I am a guest and don't want to push my thoughts on you. But give it a quick thought.

[adam]

Still no goal. Which country's crime rates do you wish to match? What is the goal?

Getting people's focus and aim away from targeting LFO's and onto real crime, as well as getting police resources redirected in a better way is my goal. I have no crime rates of which to match.

I'm not proposing government oppression. I'm proposing that resources and focus that's already there is turned away from those who are already doing the right thing - and towards those who have the intent of doing wrong. Redirect the heat somewhere more positive. And to do that we need good solid ideas of how to achieve that.

There are always going to be people who want a goal to be passionate and emotional about. They want to protest. They want their voice heard. When they "solve" one, they move onto the next. For many at the moment it's guns (or more precise - being anti-guns). You will never stop them from being passionate about it. You will never shut them up, until they have what they want, and even then they won't stop - they'll want more. What might be possible however is redirect that passion in a better suited direction, and for those who won't because they're so hard headed, at least we'd have alternative for others to follow who are concerned, so the dead head gun grabbers are not leaders anymore for all others to follow.

There are a number of historic battles won against the statistics - because people thought laterally... differently - not just with figures. If not winning their enemies over, at least getting their enemies to fight their own battles for them, instead of against them.

As you can tell - I'm not overly keen on goals set with numbers. At the moment our government has a goal of zero for the road toll. That's right - the slogan is "Zero is possible". Fines (over $100USD) for doing just 2mph over the limit - once again targeting citizens trying to do the right thing because it's easier to do (and in that case it raises revenue) instead of trying to address the real problem drivers. Why - because they're chasing and focused on figures - statistics which can be measured instead of the bigger picture, and the money.

I don't believe all goals need to have a statistical target figure.

[Gwion]

Getting people's focus and aim away from targeting LFO's and onto real crime, as well as getting police resources redirected in a better way is my goal. I have no crime rates of which to match.

I'm not proposing government oppression. I'm proposing that resources and focus that's already there is turned away from those who are already doing the right thing - and towards those who have the intent of doing wrong. Redirect the heat somewhere more positive. And to do that we need good solid ideas of how to achieve that.

Right behind you there, Adam. Lawful Firearms Owners, in my view (and i've stated this countless times before), need to change their public perception through open displays of concern and condemnation about gun crime and the misuse of firearms. With a proactive approach to tackling these issues, there will be greater chance of firearms owners retaining and clawing back more freedoms.

All these racial, political and idealogical slurs and insults that get bandied about in public do nothing good for the image of LFOs. An interest or passion about firearms or outdoor life styles are not predisposed by racial, political or socio-ecomomic/geographic boundaries. Those slinging epithets and slurs in a generalistic manner are actually doing the cause of firearms freedoms in Australia great harm and, in my view' may as well be working for the "ANTIs"; if they aren't already.

[<<Genesis93>>]

Still no goal. Which country's crime rates do you wish to match? What is the goal?

Stop proposing government oppression simply for the sake of it. That makes no sense.

I'll try to bow out now, since I am a guest and don't want to push my thoughts on you. But give it a quick thought.

Iceland

[happyhunter]

It will NEVER be enough for the people that want to take your rights. Australia could have the lowest crime rate of any nation on Earth, and they will still come back and want to pass more laws that do nothing.

Australia's murder rate is very, very low. Yet somehow it's a "problem" that requires the government to come after everyone. It will never end.

Australia's rate of voilent crime is very low. Corporate crime and government corruption are at a high. Australia is a haven for organised crime to launder money made from the drugs and illegal weapons trade. This situation suits the government and lines the pockets of polititions. Why would government do anything effectual about crime when the individuals voted into government benefit from the proceeds of crime?

[adam]

Right behind you there, Adam. Lawful Firearms Owners, in my view (and i've stated this countless times before), need to change their public perception through open displays of concern and condemnation about gun crime and the misuse of firearms. With a proactive approach to tackling these issues, there will be greater chance of firearms owners retaining and clawing back more freedoms.

All these racial, political and idealogical slurs and insults that get bandied about in public do nothing good for the image of LFOs. An interest or passion about firearms or outdoor life styles are not predisposed by racial, political or socio-ecomomic/geographic boundaries. Those slinging epithets and slurs in a generalistic manner are actually doing the cause of firearms freedoms in Australia great harm and, in my view' may as well be working for the "ANTIs"; if they aren't already.

Why didn't you start the thread Gwion - you word and explain things so much better (and using much less words) than I do.

Your post summarises exactly my concerns.

[Harts]

Reduce all crime by less cops sitting on their asses in parked cars taking pictures of people going 3km over the speed limit.

Have them get out there and do literally anything else...