knife attack / shooting - westfield Hornsby

[tom604]

training costs money, being holier than thou/soap box is cheap, but ill shut up now maybe

[darwindingo]

Not trying to start a fight, or attempting to slam you Tom604. So I honestly hope its is not taken as such, I'm just attempting to put myself in a theoretical position, in the way that you suggested to "G93".. that's all.....

In saying that,

I'd bet I'd feel a hell of a lot worse than I would, ending up in hospital or even dead for that matter from a stab wound, if a stray round I fired had of ended up hitting a baby in the head or something like that. Thankfully that didn't happened in this case. But I'm just saying.. ? How would you feel if that was the outcome?
I certainly don't blame her (its a tough call given the situation and time-frame at hand), however the standard of training is something worth further examination as to its suitability, in my opinion though...

So please don't go you are equally entitled to express your opinions and views as the rest of us.



Jeff

[Spudman75]

There is video available. Watch it. The cop panicked and shot into the crowd rather than the bad guy. Poor marksmanship and stupidity. She had a tazer on her belt too but pulled the gun.

[tom604]

all true but what if you were killed? instead of the baby? how would your "family" feel ? plus you have to live to feel? all the training in the world and still sh*t would happen it just annoys me with the she should do this or that and if she couldn't then she's useless ,,and don't worry i have a thick skin normally i dont comment on these topics anyway just on my soapbox

[darwindingo]

I'm glad your still here Tom604, I just got off the phone with my folks, they actually said that they would be devastated, but also proud if I made such a sacrifice in the circumstance (I'm actually pleased that they feel that way).. I can certainly accept that things examined in hindsight, generally seem quite simple in comparison to the time that they occur, particularly under the circumstance of duress..!

However I still maintain my opinion that regardless the cost, the level of training and assessment could be improved upon, for the protection and benefit of all concerned. That's all..



Jeff

[Baronvonrort]

The Police wounded 4 women and killed one with the Lindt siege when they knew there was a single offender with a beard.
3 people were wounded yesterday while trying to shoot a single male who chanted Allahu Akbar.

She was supposed to shoot centre torso she wasn't following her limited training.

[Title_II]

The Police wounded 4 women and killed one with the Lindt siege when they knew there was a single offender with a beard.
3 people were wounded yesterday while trying to shoot a single male who chanted Allahu Akbar.

She was supposed to shoot centre torso she wasn't following her limited training.

To clarify, you don't aim for the center like the circles on the silhouette targets suggest. That is for combat. In defensive shootings, you draw a triangle between the two nipples (I actually have 5 LOL) and the bottom of the Adam's apple and aim for the center of the triangle. All kinds of good stuff up in there.

That's for handgun. If you are blasting with a .303 with soft points or an AR then it probably doesn't matter much.

[bluerob]

The Police wounded 4 women and killed one with the Lindt siege when they knew there was a single offender with a beard.
3 people were wounded yesterday while trying to shoot a single male who chanted Allahu Akbar.

She was supposed to shoot centre torso she wasn't following her limited training.

To clarify, you don't aim for the center like the circles on the silhouette targets suggest. That is for combat. In defensive shootings, you draw a triangle between the two nipples (I actually have 5 LOL) and the bottom of the Adam's apple and aim for the center of the triangle. All kinds of good stuff up in there.

That's for handgun. If you are blasting with a .303 with soft points or an AR then it probably doesn't matter much.

I wouldn't be telling too many people that you have 5 nipples, otherwise, when the "burning at the stake starts," you'll be 1st in line.

[tom604]

I wouldn't be telling too many people that you have 5 nipples, otherwise, when the "burning at the stake starts," you'll be 1st in line.

i knew a bloke with five dicks,,,his pants fitted him like a glove sorry bit of a dad joke that one

[Title_II]

LOL, yeah, I'm a freak of nature. I'm sure you know that minor extra nipples are not extremely rare, but I got more than my fair share. And, that's amusing, because there was time they considered it a sign of the devil or something.

[happyhunter]

The plot thinckens..

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/man-who-rescu ... pgmzv.html

As the officer shot at Mr Sourian three times, three women standing around Alan suddenly dropped to the ground.

3 for 3.. not bad except she hit the wrong tragets.

His family also disputed reports in other media that Mr Sourian was heard yelling "Allahu Akbar" and rambling in Arabic before the shooting, saying he was a devout Catholic who couldn't speak a word of Arabic.

If you read the report the patient was already well aquainted with the two police officers.

Fairfax Media understands the male and female police officer who shot at Mr Sourian knew him personally because they frequently drop patients off at Hornsby Hospital's mental health unit, where Mr Sourian had been an involuntary patient.

[Supaduke]

Could be a government conspiracy to reduce the burden of pensioners on government revenues.......

[sandgroperbill]

Definitely need to improve training. Maybe police should also train in IPSC or similar? Perhaps also train team on team with airwoft or paint ball, hell, even laser tag?

Now, I ask, who here has ever pulled the trigger without first checking behind, above, either side or in front of target? No? Me either.

Now for what really annoys me:

I'm just gonna ask, and yeah yeah, geneva convention and all that, but when are the police going to realise that fmj is not the correct choice in situations where there may be bystanders?

Fmj ricochets, passes through, etc, not wise anywhere there may be collateral damage.

Yes, I understand that fmj means there is a greater chance for survival for the person being fired at, but IMHO, better them than an innocent bystander.

[bluerob]

LOL, yeah, I'm a freak of nature. I'm sure you know that minor extra nipples are not extremely rare, but I got more than my fair share. And, that's amusing, because there was time they considered it a sign of the devil or something.

Mate, there are some that believe that "your extra accessories" shows strong psychic abilities.

Any tips on any upcoming lotteries or....?

[bluerob]

Definitely need to improve training. Maybe police should also train in IPSC or similar? Perhaps also train team on team with airwoft or paint ball, hell, even laser tag?

Now, I ask, who here has ever pulled the trigger without first checking behind, above, either side or in front of target? No? Me either.

Now for what really annoys me:

I'm just gonna ask, and yeah yeah, geneva convention and all that, but when are the police going to realise that fmj is not the correct choice in situations where there may be bystanders?

Fmj ricochets, passes through, etc, not wise anywhere there may be collateral damage.

Yes, I understand that fmj means there is a greater chance for survival for the person being fired at, but IMHO, better them than an innocent bystander.

I think you'll find that Police are issued with JHP ammo and not FMJ's. FMJ's are military issue only.....

The cost of training is the major issue according to my pal. Sometimes the specialist units train with simuntion, but, having 4500 people shoot 1000 rounds per month would amount to a fair bit of $$$ being spent.

I reckon Police officers should be encouraged to join a pistol club, whether that be service or IPSC type shoots.

At least they'll have some time behind a handgun. I've seen new recruits drop the handgun after firing it - "gee, I didn't think it'd kick as much." That was in a range, with earmuffs on. Imagine the racket of a .40 barking in a shopping mall.

[valkyrie]

Not to mention that the .40sw is a weak ass cartridge. Very very easy to shoot very well. It came about because the fbi werent happy with the qualification scores that their agents were getting with the much much hotter 10mm round. So sw shortened the case and downloaded it till it shoots easier than a 9mm to bring their scores up.


Then they got in a few shootouts with it and realised it was s**t at neutralising targets so they went back to 9mm. Having completely ruined 10mm for everyone else lol

[happyhunter]

haha.. classic thread.

Getting cops to shoot ISPC won't solve the problem. It will possibly make it worse.

When people are faced in a high danger/stress scenario, they experience sensory overload, hence the 'spray and pray' reaction. They also revert to the first thing they learned when being taught to shoot so it is important that they are instructed correctly the first time they fire a weapon. That's called primacy in learning. They only way to overcome sensory overload is 'over learning' so the right action becomes instinct without thinking and the only way to achieve that is to training, training, training in realistic as possible simulations.

This applies to any dangerous activity, not just shootings.

[Title_II]

Definitely need to improve training. Maybe police should also train in IPSC or similar? Perhaps also train team on team with airwoft or paint ball, hell, even laser tag?

Now, I ask, who here has ever pulled the trigger without first checking behind, above, either side or in front of target? No? Me either.

I wasn't there. But if it's a crowded area and you decide you must intervene, you charge the target and either shoot them at extremely close range or you take a knee and shoot upward at them so you don't hit anyone. It's not ideal because you may not have cover and you lose mobility, but that's the way it's done.

Usually, if someone is waving a gun around, the place clears out pretty fast and the only people remaining on both sides of the fight have guns.

[bigfellascott]

s**t happens hey.