U.S.A's worst mass shooting leaves 50 dead

[Heckler303]

The news is still rolling in but we have some info up: At a gay nightclub in Orlando, florida, a man by the name of Omar Mateen, who had been known by the FBI since 2013, walked in carrying both a rifle and a pistol (Still yet to be named, but the media loves reporting it as a 'assault style' rifle) and killed 50 people, injury count still unknown.

One thing that was extremely apparent of the nightclub? Oh yes, it had some kind of protection, protection along the lines of a sign...

[wrenchman]

they named him it was a terror attack

[Heckler303]

they named him it was a terror attack

I forget to also add in the OP that he swore allegiance to ISIS, with them claiming responsibility for the attack. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with gun control, this is what Islam spawns.

[Title_II]

It was not the U.S.A.'s worst mass shooting. It was the worst Moslem terrorist attack since 9/11/2001.

[bigfellascott]

I heard he called out "Allah ******" dunno if it's true or not.

[<<Genesis93>>]

Malcolm Turdfull: We are safe because of John Howard's gun laws.

[NukeBOMB88]

Cmon guys lets not blame all Muslims for ISIS , those f**ckers don't follow Islam they just use it as their excuse

Blaming all Muslims is like how the media blames all shooters for one madman shooting people ...

[tom604]

i agree, cant blame them all for the actions of a few, not like the government does for gun owners, ,, its a pity that the moderates are not more vocal in condemning the nutters,,causes a bit of mistrust

[<<Genesis93>>]

Who's blaming muslims / Islam??

I blame US foreign policy as 100% responsible for the Islamist terror blowback, along with the the other 'western' governments who agree/assist/condone it (including ours)...

Now this incident happened to be by an individual of Afghan descent, whether it was an anti-US, or ant-gay, or whatever was the motivation, he was no doubt motivated or at least empowered 'spiritually' by the global 'jihadism' if you like. Doesnt mean he was linked to the ISIS group, even if they (ISIS) claim responsibility...

Not everyone who yells 'God is great' in arabic is an ISIS member. Remember it was not/is not unusual for other faiths to invoke not too dissimilar spiritual words and pleas - I wonder what 'we' as Christians would yell as we stormed out of the muddy trenches a century ago?? probably similar things, but in German, French, English.

[tom604]

he did a 911 call saying he was doing it in the name of isis and the fbi had investigated him a couple of times

[Heckler303]

Cmon guys lets not blame all Muslims for ISIS , those f**ckers don't follow Islam they just use it as their excuse

Blaming all Muslims is like how the media blames all shooters for one madman shooting people ...

I agree that an individuals should be judged as simply individuals, but I can not find any reason to not state that Islam itself is a religious of violence and hatred. ISIS does, as a matter of fact, follow islam, just like that of the taliban and all the other mixed bags of camelshaggers out there.

Do any of you not see the connection between the terror attacks in the past 20 years, all performed by those who followed Islam and their ideologies?

Islam itself IS a problem.

[Oldbloke]

I guess christianity is also a religion of violence and war. Just look at history.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_war

Heckler303, Perhaps we should jail all christians?

[AusTac]

the worst thing other than the obvious, is all the hippy vegan vego free lovers all piping up again, GUNS KILL PEOPLE, GUNS R BAD, aussie gun laws work etc etc...

[Pennsylvania Yank]

Cmon guys lets not blame all Muslims for ISIS , those f**ckers don't follow Islam they just use it as their excuse

Blaming all Muslims is like how the media blames all shooters for one madman shooting people ...

With all due respect, I think you are missing the underlying problem with Islam. That is, that Islam is wholly incompatible with Western Democracy. The reason is that there is a driving force behind Islam that is purely motivated by political ideology NOT BY religion, This ideology, plain and simple exists to further the goal of world Islamic conquest and subjugation. While Christianity has essentially abandoned the practice of forced conversion around the world via missionaries and conquest, Islam is still very much bound by that underlying purpose.

Thus the fact that the vast majority of Muslims are peaceful and abhor violence is rendered completely irrelevant by the other more sobering and dangerous realities of Islam. In addition, (and unfortunately) the millions of peaceful Muslims who are currently helping to change the demographics of Europe, are just as harmful by virtue of the fact that they are largely resistant to assimilation to Western Culture and Democracy.

[Pennsylvania Yank]

I guess christianity is also a religion of violence and war. Just look at history.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_war

Heckler303, Perhaps we should jail all christians?

Practicing this type of moral relativism will get you a lot of accolades in certain circles, but is not really a sound and logical analysis of the problems we face in dealing with the dangers of radical Islam, and the threat Islam currently poses to Western Democracy.

In fact, it plays right into the hands of those who seek to destroy us.

There is a very good reason that Australia has a very strict immigration policy w/respect to so-called "refugees". I only wish my country(and Europe) had the stones to do the same thing.

[Supaduke]

My missus had to wrestle her phone off me and made me promise not to make any comments on her Facebook page. As mentioned , it's barely been a day and people are already crowing loudly ,in what to me seems a boastful and arrogant fashion , about how our gun laws have saved us.

No mention of broken ideologies and extremism, just the usual anti-gun sentiment. Really makes me sick that these antis are using a tragedy to push their agenda.

[happyhunter]

With all due respect, I think you are missing the underlying problem with Islam. That is, that Islam is wholly incompatible with Western Democracy. The reason is that there is a driving force behind Islam that is purely motivated by political ideology NOT BY religion,

You hit the nail on the head.

[Gwion]

I guess christianity is also a religion of violence and war. Just look at history.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_war

Heckler303, Perhaps we should jail all christians?

Practicing this type of moral relativism will get you a lot of accolades in certain circles, but is not really a sound and logical analysis of the problems we face in dealing with the dangers of radical Islam, and the threat Islam currently poses to Western Democracy.

In fact, it plays right into the hands of those who seek to destroy us.

There is a very good reason that Australia has a very strict immigration policy w/respect to so-called "refugees". I only wish my country(and Europe) had the stones to do the same thing.

The point is: rather than banging on about "Islam" as a whole and thereby defining enmity for an entire religion; it would be much better to name the beast for what it is, "Islamic extremism".

There are varying reports as to what this guys motivations where. Some say he was not aligned with isis but was strict Christian who was not mentally stable. This implies that the official reports of his alignment with radical Islam is just a ruse to utilise the tragedy in order to baulster support for further anti Islamic actions.

Saying that Christian extremists have abandoned forcible conversion is somewhat of a misnomer. The US ruling class is rather dominated by extremist Christians; given this and the forcible conversion to 'western democracy' by a military operating under a banner 'in God we trust', it can be said that the modern crusade has merely been re-branded yet, in fact, remains the same. An ongoing battle between extreme factions of religious sects who have managed to wheedle control of gov/military in their respective countries, over some rock strewn strip of land that is supposed to have some divine significance (and a s**t load of fossil fuels).

I disagree with extremist violence of all kinds. I disagree with oppressive cultural, religious and governmental policies of all kinds. Fact is, the Islamic world is not the only place that these iniquities exist. We all need to take a good, long, honest look in our own back yards before condemning others or forcing our way of life on them because our 'gods' know best.

Oh well. It's too early for this s**t. I'm going to brew some beer!

[Gwion]

Ps: the guy who shot all those people is ******.

[wrenchman]

this happen becouse our home land secusity didnt want to offend any one the fbi was told about him and they droped the ball becouse he was complaing they were racest.

[<<Genesis93>>]

he did a 911 call saying he was doing it in the name of isis and the fbi had investigated him a couple of times

Yes, we hear he called 911 to declare his allegiance to ISIS....
wouldnt you call ISIS to declare your allegiance??

Those words mean nothing.

[happyhunter]

The more you read about these type of shooting the greater the arrow points to mental health issues. The underlying theme for the type of people who commit these crimes is they have a history of being nutters. The usual plethora of selfies, the crazy behavior witnessed by family and friends, rejection by their peers etc.. are all too common stories in the follow up investigations.

Whatever is sick in modern society that is producing these types of people needs to be identified and sorted.

[Blackened]

Guy, I'll leave the existing comments about Islam / Religion as it's been civil enough so far, but I'm drawing the line in the sand here.

We all know how these conversations go, e.g. off the rails, and the original topic is lost to arguments that have been had 1000x before.

Stick to the facts of the shooting and the elements directly relating to it. If the thread starts going down the path of turning into the same old broad sweeping arguments over religions the padlock goes on.

[bluerob]

I guess christianity is also a religion of violence and war. Just look at history.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_war

Heckler303, Perhaps we should jail all christians?

Practicing this type of moral relativism will get you a lot of accolades in certain circles, but is not really a sound and logical analysis of the problems we face in dealing with the dangers of radical Islam, and the threat Islam currently poses to Western Democracy.

In fact, it plays right into the hands of those who seek to destroy us.

There is a very good reason that Australia has a very strict immigration policy w/respect to so-called "refugees". I only wish my country(and Europe) had the stones to do the same thing.

Your reference to Australia's immigration laws is quite an interesting situation where many people who should've been allowed were denied entry and those who should not have been allowed, were. I could write a book on my experiences from my teenage years through to old age with what I've seen and personally experienced.

I can't help but wonder what the future holds for quite a few countries where "displaced immigrants" have turned up and are now creating enclaves, like we have in certain Sydney suburbs. I'm sure that there's examples of this in other cities also.

Here's hoping....

[brett1868]

Apparently the "Trigger" for his actions was seeing 2 men kissing in public. I suspect he was conditioned to hate homosexuals by both his father and beliefs. My theory is that he may have harboured deep homosexual tendencies himself and was in denial. Rather then come out of the closest and openly embrace his true self he killed those he wanted to be like and identified with most. Sort of a psychological way of "Killing" his own homosexual leanings, family and religion forbid this lifestyle which conflicted him and this is how he acted out, sort of "If I kill gay people then I can't be gay". The associating himself with ISIS was probably an afterthought in an attempt to divert his true motives and add some credibility to his actions. If he was a true terrorist prepared to give his life in the name of Allah, why attack a Gay Nightclub? Surely there were better targets that would anger ALL America.

[<<Genesis93>>]

Australia's current policy is that if you seek to enter illegally, ie. by getting on a fishing boat from another country - then WHEN you are caught, whether hundreds of kays out or on a remote beach in Western or Northern Aus... You will NOT be resettled in Australia. Period.

If you're deemed a refugee overseas through a UNHCR program... we'll take you up to our program quota... apparently.

If you have enough cash you simply 'buy' your right on entry and settlement - this is specifically targeted at the CACs, the 'cashed up chinese'....(this is bad policy AFAIC)

The greens and like minded nation-destroying socialist / commies despise our no-settlement-for-illegals policy and would quash this system as a first priority if they were to (perish the thought) take office. They have proposed to 'go to the countries' and pick them up!!! (Sarah 2-fathers)

Labor have declared they would retain off-shore processing......so off shore settlement will go with labor! You can rely on the Fabians to get the boats restarted.....

[pajamatime]

I guess christianity is also a religion of violence and war. Just look at history.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_war

Heckler303, Perhaps we should jail all christians?

Practicing this type of moral relativism will get you a lot of accolades in certain circles, but is not really a sound and logical analysis of the problems we face in dealing with the dangers of radical Islam, and the threat Islam currently poses to Western Democracy.

In fact, it plays right into the hands of those who seek to destroy us.

There is a very good reason that Australia has a very strict immigration policy w/respect to so-called "refugees". I only wish my country(and Europe) had the stones to do the same thing.

yeah agreed. I think this is a interesting take by an actual islamic woman...Islam has a serious serious problem and people need to stop protecting it.
documentary is here https://youtu.be/pSPvnFDDQHk

[<<Genesis93>>]

So........the LGBT global community is having conniptions over the 'attack on their own'....... turns out it he was one of them!

The shooter had been a regular at the nightclub for many months and had used a gay dating chat app thing to chat with his pals there....

didnt see that coming hey....they have to all re-write their banners and placards....

[brett1868]

Genesis93...Go back to my theory posted at 16:34 before some of this information was released. I maybe wrong to assume he was in the closet but targeting a Gay nightclub as an act of terrorism just doesn't make sense. Like another other recent "Terrorist" attack in the U.S there was an underlying need for personal revenge as the primary motive followed then by beliefs. Maybe he had a bad hookup on "Grinder" and sought revenge...

[wrenchman]

i have muslin freinds and coworkers islam is not whats at fault its the person that will use it to hurt others there has been others that hurt and killed and used bible to hurt other the first one off the top of my head would be the kkk.
there are nut jobs all around we need to target them like the kkk was in the 60s the fbi would go into souther churchs and watch for them most are stomped out now