U.S.A's worst mass shooting leaves 50 dead

[Gwion]

Ps: the guy who shot all those people is ******.

[wrenchman]

this happen becouse our home land secusity didnt want to offend any one the fbi was told about him and they droped the ball becouse he was complaing they were racest.

[<<Genesis93>>]

he did a 911 call saying he was doing it in the name of isis and the fbi had investigated him a couple of times

Yes, we hear he called 911 to declare his allegiance to ISIS....
wouldnt you call ISIS to declare your allegiance??

Those words mean nothing.

[happyhunter]

The more you read about these type of shooting the greater the arrow points to mental health issues. The underlying theme for the type of people who commit these crimes is they have a history of being nutters. The usual plethora of selfies, the crazy behavior witnessed by family and friends, rejection by their peers etc.. are all too common stories in the follow up investigations.

Whatever is sick in modern society that is producing these types of people needs to be identified and sorted.

[Blackened]

Guy, I'll leave the existing comments about Islam / Religion as it's been civil enough so far, but I'm drawing the line in the sand here.

We all know how these conversations go, e.g. off the rails, and the original topic is lost to arguments that have been had 1000x before.

Stick to the facts of the shooting and the elements directly relating to it. If the thread starts going down the path of turning into the same old broad sweeping arguments over religions the padlock goes on.

[bluerob]

I guess christianity is also a religion of violence and war. Just look at history.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_war

Heckler303, Perhaps we should jail all christians?

Practicing this type of moral relativism will get you a lot of accolades in certain circles, but is not really a sound and logical analysis of the problems we face in dealing with the dangers of radical Islam, and the threat Islam currently poses to Western Democracy.

In fact, it plays right into the hands of those who seek to destroy us.

There is a very good reason that Australia has a very strict immigration policy w/respect to so-called "refugees". I only wish my country(and Europe) had the stones to do the same thing.

Your reference to Australia's immigration laws is quite an interesting situation where many people who should've been allowed were denied entry and those who should not have been allowed, were. I could write a book on my experiences from my teenage years through to old age with what I've seen and personally experienced.

I can't help but wonder what the future holds for quite a few countries where "displaced immigrants" have turned up and are now creating enclaves, like we have in certain Sydney suburbs. I'm sure that there's examples of this in other cities also.

Here's hoping....

[brett1868]

Apparently the "Trigger" for his actions was seeing 2 men kissing in public. I suspect he was conditioned to hate homosexuals by both his father and beliefs. My theory is that he may have harboured deep homosexual tendencies himself and was in denial. Rather then come out of the closest and openly embrace his true self he killed those he wanted to be like and identified with most. Sort of a psychological way of "Killing" his own homosexual leanings, family and religion forbid this lifestyle which conflicted him and this is how he acted out, sort of "If I kill gay people then I can't be gay". The associating himself with ISIS was probably an afterthought in an attempt to divert his true motives and add some credibility to his actions. If he was a true terrorist prepared to give his life in the name of Allah, why attack a Gay Nightclub? Surely there were better targets that would anger ALL America.

[<<Genesis93>>]

Australia's current policy is that if you seek to enter illegally, ie. by getting on a fishing boat from another country - then WHEN you are caught, whether hundreds of kays out or on a remote beach in Western or Northern Aus... You will NOT be resettled in Australia. Period.

If you're deemed a refugee overseas through a UNHCR program... we'll take you up to our program quota... apparently.

If you have enough cash you simply 'buy' your right on entry and settlement - this is specifically targeted at the CACs, the 'cashed up chinese'....(this is bad policy AFAIC)

The greens and like minded nation-destroying socialist / commies despise our no-settlement-for-illegals policy and would quash this system as a first priority if they were to (perish the thought) take office. They have proposed to 'go to the countries' and pick them up!!! (Sarah 2-fathers)

Labor have declared they would retain off-shore processing......so off shore settlement will go with labor! You can rely on the Fabians to get the boats restarted.....

[pajamatime]

I guess christianity is also a religion of violence and war. Just look at history.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_war

Heckler303, Perhaps we should jail all christians?

Practicing this type of moral relativism will get you a lot of accolades in certain circles, but is not really a sound and logical analysis of the problems we face in dealing with the dangers of radical Islam, and the threat Islam currently poses to Western Democracy.

In fact, it plays right into the hands of those who seek to destroy us.

There is a very good reason that Australia has a very strict immigration policy w/respect to so-called "refugees". I only wish my country(and Europe) had the stones to do the same thing.

yeah agreed. I think this is a interesting take by an actual islamic woman...Islam has a serious serious problem and people need to stop protecting it.
documentary is here https://youtu.be/pSPvnFDDQHk

[<<Genesis93>>]

So........the LGBT global community is having conniptions over the 'attack on their own'....... turns out it he was one of them!

The shooter had been a regular at the nightclub for many months and had used a gay dating chat app thing to chat with his pals there....

didnt see that coming hey....they have to all re-write their banners and placards....

[brett1868]

Genesis93...Go back to my theory posted at 16:34 before some of this information was released. I maybe wrong to assume he was in the closet but targeting a Gay nightclub as an act of terrorism just doesn't make sense. Like another other recent "Terrorist" attack in the U.S there was an underlying need for personal revenge as the primary motive followed then by beliefs. Maybe he had a bad hookup on "Grinder" and sought revenge...

[wrenchman]

i have muslin freinds and coworkers islam is not whats at fault its the person that will use it to hurt others there has been others that hurt and killed and used bible to hurt other the first one off the top of my head would be the kkk.
there are nut jobs all around we need to target them like the kkk was in the 60s the fbi would go into souther churchs and watch for them most are stomped out now

[<<Genesis93>>]

Genesis93...Go back to my theory posted at 16:34 before some of this information was released. I maybe wrong to assume he was in the closet but targeting a Gay nightclub as an act of terrorism just doesn't make sense. Like another other recent "Terrorist" attack in the U.S there was an underlying need for personal revenge as the primary motive followed then by beliefs. Maybe he had a bad hookup on "Grinder" and sought revenge...

A guy from the club stated they had been chatting online and other for 12months.... he had been clubbing there for 6 months...... recon is one visit, not immersing yourself fully in the lifestyle...

I say spurned or otherwise rejected lover. His dad's talk is directed at gays = his son.

[happyhunter]

Well there ya go, he was one in the closet.

[adam]

After P.A. I just can't look at any of these shootings and simply accept what the media reports on it and come to a quick conclusion.

It's quite possible that the media might be close to being correct and factual in this instance (well... as close as the media can get) - but I've learned not to jump to conclusions too quickly. I'll quietly sit back on this one and observe for a while...

At the least - the timing of the attack appears convenient with the US elections coming up, and the left gifted a decent massacre to push their anti-gun campaign and gain sympathy for their causes.

I'm not saying that there is anything more behind the scenes - just that the longer you wait - the more information that will come out about it to make a more informed decision.

Case in point: It's already turned from being an ISIS related attack to this being questioned now that his gay background has been identified... What extra will we know next week.

Something that's worth keeping a focus on just as much (if not more) than the event itself, is how quickly certain parties react - and the way that they do...

[Baronvonrort]

i have muslin freinds and coworkers islam is not whats at fault its the person that will use it to hurt others there has been others that hurt and killed and used bible to hurt other the first one off the top of my head would be the kkk.
there are nut jobs all around we need to target them like the kkk was in the 60s the fbi would go into souther churchs and watch for them most are stomped out now

The President of the American Islamic forum for democracy has no doubt this was an attack motivated by Islam.

Make no mistake.We are again horrifically reminded that our nation and the free world are in a long war declared upon us by global militant Islamists and their salafi jihadi ideology.
www.aifdemocracy.org/aifd-keeps-victims ... lse-attack

The African American senator Allen West said blacks kill more blacks every 6 months than what the KKK could do in 83 years, there was a fact check on this claim which said it was accurate.

[<<Genesis93>>]

Remember the first words were he was not on the FBIs RADAR......even though he was investigated twice??
If you're investigated by the Feds, whether in the US or here in Aus..... you would then be well planted on the RADAR in perpetuity. FBI dropped the ball.

Now it turns out wifey says she helped scout with him and purchase ammo with him.....

I predict this story will keep evolving and evolving - the father knew, maybe encouraged his sons martyrdom, to make up for his sexual peccadilloes, there was a boyfriend at the club, so many knew him...

Trouble is once its no longer an attack 'on' the gay community, but becomes an attack 'within' the gay community... the lefty tard progressive commie anti straight while male media.... will drop this like a scorching hot potato.

[Baronvonrort]

Remember the first words were he was not on the FBIs RADAR......even though he was investigated twice??
If you're investigated by the Feds, whether in the US or here in Aus..... you would then be well planted on the RADAR in perpetuity. FBI dropped the ball.

Now it turns out wifey says she helped scout with him and purchase ammo with him.....

I predict this story will keep evolving and evolving - the father knew, maybe encouraged his sons martyrdom, to make up for his sexual peccadilloes, there was a boyfriend at the club, so many knew him...

Trouble is once its no longer an attack 'on' the gay community, but becomes an attack 'within' the gay community... the lefty tard progressive commie anti straight while male media.... will drop this like a scorching hot potato.

Nothing unusual there, our Lindt siege offender was known to the Police and slipped through the cracks.

His father made videos supporting the Taliban so he was raised in a funda-mental home.

I think this will die out because the offender was muslim and a registered DemocRat, if he was a Trump supporting bible bashing redneck the lefties would drag it out for months.

[wimpb]

Doesn't really matter who he was or what he identified as to the media. They'll say he was just a crazy guy and the guns are the problem. That's the narrative they're painting. It really doesn't matter. If he was gay, he did it because homophobia made him crazy closeted and he went nuts. If he did it because of Islam then the media will say that it was Islamophobia and that he went nuts. Once they can establish he was crazy they'll say it's too easy to get firearms, that's their whole angle. They really do not care about the details at all.

[happyhunter]

A detailed report on the shooters life that does not blame guns as the problem.
http://www.theage.com.au/world/orlando- ... pjooz.html

Orlando: This is where the investigative road divides spectacularly: was Orlando gunman Omar Mateen driven by a love of Islamic State, or by a deep sense of self-loathing – possibly triggered by an awareness that he was gay?

[<<Genesis93>>]

Eye witness accounts - those inside the club are claiming "someone held the door closed" preventing the escape from inside while the shooting took place......

hmmmm..... maybe there's more to the current narrative...

[Pennsylvania Yank]

A detailed report on the shooters life that does not blame guns as the problem.
http://www.theage.com.au/world/orlando- ... pjooz.html

Orlando: This is where the investigative road divides spectacularly: was Orlando gunman Omar Mateen driven by a love of Islamic State, or by a deep sense of self-loathing – possibly triggered by an awareness that he was gay?

Islam is entirely woven into the shooter and his family's actions. This is the guy whos school classmates remember him celebrating on 9/11 after seeing the twin towers go down when he was 14 years old. His wife is now known to have been involved in some way. She is seen on camera purchasing ammunition for him and drove to the shooting location with him to scout. His Father hosts an anti-american radio show and is now his son's biggest apologist it seems. The shooter called 911 to proclaim his allegence to ISIS because he was allied with ISIS. Whether he was self loathing or not is quite irrelevent. By all accounts we see yet another Muslim who is seemingly living the American dream and working a very good job but who is still bitter and angry and wanting to murder innocent people because his religion compels him to do it and he brings down his entire family with him.. It's Fort Hood and San Bernadino all over again. Also more importantly, the authorities have known all about him and his issues with co-workers and his associations with known terrorists for years but let him slip out of their grasp solely because of Political correctness.

[brett1868]

I think it's probably a combination of several factors coming together climaxing in a violent outburst. His hate of himself, his religious beliefs, family pressure all combined to form a mental illness of sorts. When it's all done and dusted, he was a sick bastard that's thankfully now dead. He's paid the ultimate price for his crimes, lets hope they bury him at sea next to Osama. America took in this family, educated them, gave them a future and freedom and this is how they are repaid? I don't know how the FBI got it so wrong with this person.

[happyhunter]

A detailed report on the shooters life that does not blame guns as the problem.
http://www.theage.com.au/world/orlando- ... pjooz.html

Orlando: This is where the investigative road divides spectacularly: was Orlando gunman Omar Mateen driven by a love of Islamic State, or by a deep sense of self-loathing – possibly triggered by an awareness that he was gay?

Islam is entirely woven into the shooter and his family's actions. This is the guy whos school classmates remember him celebrating on 9/11 after seeing the twin towers go down when he was 14 years old. His wife is now known to have been involved in some way. She is seen on camera purchasing ammunition for him and drove to the shooting location with him to scout. His Father hosts an anti-american radio show and is now his son's biggest apologist it seems. The shooter called 911 to proclaim his allegence to ISIS because he was allied with ISIS. Whether he was self loathing or not is quite irrelevent. By all accounts we see yet another Muslim who is seemingly living the American dream and working a very good job but who is still bitter and angry and wanting to murder innocent people because his religion compels him to do it and he brings down his entire family with him.. It's Fort Hood and San Bernadino all over again. Also more importantly, the authorities have known all about him and his issues with co-workers and his associations with known terrorists for years but let him slip out of their grasp solely because of Political correctness.

Religion was just the mask. It was something the shooter falsely identified with to hide the truth about what really drove him to such an irrational action. The truth is he could not face the reality of his own sexuality. Blaming religion, in this case, is like blaming the AR15 rifle which is exactly what the gun contrl freaks do. The fact he used an AR is coincidental. The real issue and real cause is mental illness.

Saying that, I'm no apologist for islam. IMO it has no place in western society. All I'm saying is in the case of Orlando the shooters religion is coincidental.

[adam]

Gee... it must be frustrating being a terrorist. A summary of what I've seen the last couple of decades seems to be:

Terrorists: The reason we're doing this is because of xxxxx

The West: We don't understand....... why do they keep doing this - still can't figure out why....

<rinse and repeat>

[Baronvonrort]

His classmates said he celebrated 9/11, his wife said they checked out Disney World and another Disney venue noting they had security with metal detectors, this attack took place in a gun free zone.

Here is a moderate muslim journalist Tarek Fatah who has no doubt this was another case of Islamic terror, I like muslims like Tarek and Dr Zuhdi Jasser from the American Islamic forum for democracy they are honest.
http://www.twitter.com/tarekfatah

Here is Rita Panahi an Australian ex muslim from Iran , I like how she pointed out it went unchallenged on the ABC Drum when a muslim said Sharia law is about mercy and kindness.
13 countries with Islam as the state religion have the death penalty for apostasy (atheism), 10 countries with Islam as the state religion have the death penalty for homosexuals, is that an example of the kindness and mercy from Sharia law?
http://www.twitter.com/RitaPanahi

The Liberal Democrats appear to be taking advice from ex muslim women with Islam which is a good thing, Islam is an ideology a set of beliefs that guide life for muslims the truth is the best weapon against ancient beliefs.

[Pennsylvania Yank]

A detailed report on the shooters life that does not blame guns as the problem.
http://www.theage.com.au/world/orlando- ... pjooz.html

Orlando: This is where the investigative road divides spectacularly: was Orlando gunman Omar Mateen driven by a love of Islamic State, or by a deep sense of self-loathing – possibly triggered by an awareness that he was gay?

Islam is entirely woven into the shooter and his family's actions. This is the guy whos school classmates remember him celebrating on 9/11 after seeing the twin towers go down when he was 14 years old. His wife is now known to have been involved in some way. She is seen on camera purchasing ammunition for him and drove to the shooting location with him to scout. His Father hosts an anti-american radio show and is now his son's biggest apologist it seems. The shooter called 911 to proclaim his allegence to ISIS because he was allied with ISIS. Whether he was self loathing or not is quite irrelevent. By all accounts we see yet another Muslim who is seemingly living the American dream and working a very good job but who is still bitter and angry and wanting to murder innocent people because his religion compels him to do it and he brings down his entire family with him.. It's Fort Hood and San Bernadino all over again. Also more importantly, the authorities have known all about him and his issues with co-workers and his associations with known terrorists for years but let him slip out of their grasp solely because of Political correctness.

Religion was just the mask. It was something the shooter falsely identified with to hide the truth about what really drove him to such an irrational action. The truth is he could not face the reality of his own sexuality. Blaming religion, in this case, is like blaming the AR15 rifle which is exactly what the gun contrl freaks do. The fact he used an AR is coincidental. The real issue and real cause is mental illness.

Saying that, I'm no apologist for islam. IMO it has no place in western society. All I'm saying is in the case of Orlando the shooters religion is coincidental.

No, actually blaming it on mental illness has no basis in reality. Experts have already stated that it would be extremely difficult for a mentally ill person to hold a steady job in security for 9 years and pull off such an attack. There are mountains of evidence that he was driven by his religion to commit this act. He has been a radical Muslim since at least age 14, probably radicalized by his father first. His father is also a radical anti-american muslim. The apple didn't fall far from the tree at all.

This terrorist's rejected application for a police academy also contained his admission that he had used marijuana and steroids. This guy had extreme anger issues and radical religious views but he was not mentally ill. He knew how to play the system as well, to such an extent that media is now reporting that the conclusion of an FBI investigation of his workplace outbursts had actually blamed his co-workers for being religious bigots after they spoke out against him.

The claims that he was a homosexual are also hearsay. He could have been there and conversing with them to gain trust so he could have better ability to murder them. Even if he were a homosexual and had a huge problem dealing with it emotionally, the worst that would have happened to a non-muslim in the same situation is that he would have likely committed suicide, but never mass murder. There is also evidence that he and his wife were previously casing Disney World as a possible target.

You are correct though. Islam has no place in Western Democracy and Civilization. And that is not a broad sweeping generalization. That is borne out by the facts on the ground for the past 700+ years.

[<<Genesis93>>]

It's NOT mental illness??
The guy walks into a place and shoots 49 or 50 people, and he's totally mentally stable, sane and rational?

Religion or not, you need to be unhinged to a degree not often encountered to do that, for your brain to 'convince' your muscles to go through the act...

If he was gay and had trouble dealing with it, yes, he might commit suicide... what better way he obviously thought than to take dozen, maybe a couple hundred even, with him on his SUICIDE MISSION...

It helps when you believe your host has destroyed your homeland....is against your religion... as his father no doubt drilled into him along with the reminder of the death sentence for gays...

Lets not forget why we, Australia and the USA have had distinct waves of migration from various nations, hint it wasnt from being too generous with our music exports.....Vietnam, Lebanon, Iraq, Afghanistan, not to mention a half dozen or so African nations, of course the most recent foreign escapades we will have the glorious cultural enrichment from thousands of Syrians, of course the moderate-extremists ones, not the other type, the extremist-moderates. We know we will get the least dangerous type, because they will be asked on their way here, whether theyre the good type or not..... all good

So if Labor gets in, what will the Syrian cultural enrichment program be extended to from the 12,000 current figure - 20,000? 50,000? I'm so excited, I cant wait for the next generation of homegrown jihadis and for the 'Lebanese criminal gangs' to be replaced by the 'Syrian crime gangs'.... and for the western suburbs of Sydney and Melbourne to be declared a caliphate.....yay for diversity.

All the while our leader declares we're safe.... are continues on a tighter gun laws path...

[adam]

The problem with the definition of mental illness is that it's as fluid as you want it to be.

Case in point: Nazi Germany - only 50 years ago... murdering women and children en masses in concentration camps.

Someone questioning the mental condition of someone who walks into a place and kill ~50 people - would they give the Nazi's in concentration camps or those who gave the orders the same benefit of the doubt with their mental condition? There were millions of women & children murdered... ?

Never underestimate the commitment of someone to fight for their ideology cause - whether it be religious or otherwise (such as in WW2).

[<<Genesis93>>]

The problem with the definition of mental illness is that it's as fluid as you want it to be.

Case in point: Nazi Germany - only 50 years ago... murdering women and children en masses in concentration camps.

Someone questioning the mental condition of someone who walks into a place and kill ~50 people - would they give the Nazi's in concentration camps or those who gave the orders the same benefit of the doubt with their mental condition? There were millions of women & children murdered... ?

Never underestimate the commitment of someone to fight for their ideology cause - whether it be religious or otherwise (such as in WW2).

Which particular NAZIs are you talking about? The Soviet ones? (Hitler died 71yrs ago)...
How many millions? Do you have a number? (one thats not from wiki) Just curious...

The Germans were fighting for their people, their nation and they were Christians. Although their stated enemy was NOT christian, the other Christian nations went to war against them....(at the behest of the same non-Christian enemy)
Their religious leaders didn't teach them to strap explosives to themselves, or go into a public or other place and take as many with you on your way to meet stacks of virgins for your eternal prize...

This is mental;


As are the governments who allow them into our land, as are the various lobby and interest group who encourage the policy, including;