U.S.A's worst mass shooting leaves 50 dead

[tom604]

the mind set to be able to kill a heap of people, be they jews ,gays or whoever is to dehumanise them, make them like animals or even less than that,
and old bloke,,,no mushrooms,they are bad

[<<Genesis93>>]

anyhoo.....

This guy, sane and rational or not, went to a gunshop and was refused service as the shop owner was sus about his questions and his phone call reportedly in Arabic (not the the language should incriminate anyone on its own, but in context this point is significant).....

He went elsewhere, PASSED the background check and he's (and she's!!) off.....[Yes, Mr pretend 'professor' Alpers, Background checks for longarms too, contrary to what nonsense you spout on Radio National]

So the FBI had investigated the guy twice in recent years.... as well as receiving a call/concern/tip off from the first store owner!!

If I was not cynically I'd say they (FBI, the Feds generally) dropped the ball....

But considering the hundreds of Billions?? spent on creating a total surveillance state, that doesnt end at their borders... the apparent vigilance with regard to preventing and disrupting Terrorist activity....

......Otherwise, I'd say theres a lot more to this story. Another mass gun killing may be, how do I put this without seeming insensitive..... 'convenient'.

[Pennsylvania Yank]

A person who in their own disordered mind rationalizes the killing of 50 innocent people is not processing reality correctly and that is a mental disorder..

He was able to rationalize his murderous act because of the very mainstream(relatively speaking) modern teachings of Islam that he embraced. So unless you're willing to claim that all murderous muslims are mentally ill, your theory simply does not hold water. Their ultimate goal is to spread worldwide Sharia Law by whatever means necessary. That's not called mental illness, that's called a plan.

[Baronvonrort]

The Daily Mail is reporting the Orlando offender sold his home to his brother in law for $100 two months ago.

[Member-Deleted]

He was able to rationalize his murderous act because of the very mainstream(relatively speaking) modern teachings of Islam that he embraced. So unless you're willing to claim that all murderous muslims are mentally ill, your theory simply does not hold water. Their ultimate goal is to spread worldwide Sharia Law by whatever means necessary. That's not called mental illness, that's called a plan.[/quote]

[Baronvonrort]

Article by Arab Humanists on Orlando

www.arabhumanists.org/arab-reaction-orlando-depressing

[wimpb]

I think it's funny how whenever an islamic terrorist guns down a bunch of people or detonates a bomb the problem is only "radical islam" and guns. Not all muslims are like that.

Well ok, if we're happy to say not all muslims are like that, how come we never hear the media say "not all gun owners are like that".


Also I don't really want to keep derailing into a religion debate, but I feel I must point out that atheist attempts to destroy religion have killed far more people than all the religious wars in history (unless you count a war/genocide to stamp out religion as a religious war). It's not even in the same ballpark. Add up all the dead from the crusades, jihads, whatever you like. Communist/proto-communist attempts to stamp out religion have killed way more. I suppose it's because the almighty state demands that no one worship anything but itself.

[bluerob]

Come to think of it on the lighter side. If all rhe greedy pricks, religions and political parties disapeared tomorrow the world would be like a giant hippy camp. Just love, sex, flowers and magic mushrooms.

And no PTA'S required!

[brett1868]

News released 2hrs ago...The shooters gay lover has come forward and states the attack was motivated by revenge for being exposed to HIV during a 3-some. Apparently he had a thing for Latino men and the shooting was revenge for having felt "Used". He specifically targeted Latino Gay men....He's no terrorist, just a gay man seeking revenge. An argument could be made that homosexuality was the root cause....lets see the tards in parliament try and ban that!!!

[happyhunter]

News released 2hrs ago...The shooters gay lover has come forward and states the attack was motivated by revenge for being exposed to HIV during a 3-some. Apparently he had a thing for Latino men and the shooting was revenge for having felt "Used". He specifically targeted Latino Gay men....He's no terrorist, just a gay man seeking revenge. An argument could be made that homosexuality was the root cause....lets see the tards in parliament try and ban that!!!

Yeah, nothing surprising about any of the news that is 'coming out' (pun intended)
http://www.theage.com.au/world/orlando- ... pppzg.html

He claimed Mateen had engaged in sex with two Puerto Rican men, one of whom he later discovered was HIV positive, and that he became "terrified". The man suggested that Mateen had also experienced rejection at the hands of gay Latinos: "He hated gay Puerto Ricans for all the stuff they did to him. I believe this crazy horrible thing he did was for revenge. When I asked him what he was going to do now, his answer was, 'I'm going to make them pay for what they did to me'."

[Baronvonrort]

Happyhunter,

Are you saying we should ignore the confessions of the offender who like Monis said he represented the Islamic state while doing Islamic terror and take the word of a poof who wasn't there and had nothing to do with it for what motivated him?

Afghans and gay sex is nothing new, look up 'Bacha Bazi'

[on_one_wheel]

I've only got one question about Islam.

If Islam is a religion of peace, why aren't extremists extremely peaceful?

[happyhunter]

Are you saying we should ignore the confessions of the offender who like Monis said he represented the Islamic state while doing Islamic terror and take the word of a poof who wasn't there and had nothing to do with it for what motivated him?

Afghans and gay sex is nothing new, look up 'Bacha Bazi'

I thought I was posting a link to a recent news report? It was an amusing read, but I'm not the reporter. take your issues up with the writer.. although if you *need* an opinion.. here it is. I really don't give a flying fruit fly why he did it, or that he did it. It's just another mass murder in a world desensitised to murder. Nothing new there.

Maybe it's time for a #orlandowhogivesashitcosIdont hashtag

[Pennsylvania Yank]

You're right happyhunter nothing new here, Muslim fanatics have been mass murdering innocents for over 1,400 years.

[wimpb]

News released 2hrs ago...The shooters gay lover has come forward and states the attack was motivated by revenge for being exposed to HIV during a 3-some. Apparently he had a thing for Latino men and the shooting was revenge for having felt "Used". He specifically targeted Latino Gay men....He's no terrorist, just a gay man seeking revenge. An argument could be made that homosexuality was the root cause....lets see the tards in parliament try and ban that!!!

Nope.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-orl ... story.html

In seeking to verify the reports, federal agents have culled Mateen's electronic devices, including a laptop computer and cellphone, as well as electronic communications of those who made the claims, law enforcement officials said.

So far, they have found no photographs, no text messages, no smartphone apps, no gay pornography and no cell-tower location data to suggest that Mateen — who was twice married to women and had a young son — conducted a secret gay life, the officials said.

The FBI is continuing to explore Mateen’s past, but investigators now believe the men who made the claims are not credible, or confused Mateen with someone else.

[Stubbles McBeard]

Afghans and gay sex is nothing new, look up 'Bacha Bazi'

My uncle worked for Serco on Christmas Island, the "devout Muslim" men regularly bed hopped, often in exchange for cash or cigarettes. When he asked one of them wtf he was doing, he patted his stomach, smiled and said "No pregnant, no pregnant..."
Yet they execute gay men and women all over the middle East. Go figure.

[<<Genesis93>>]

Afghans and gay sex is nothing new, look up 'Bacha Bazi'

My uncle worked for Serco on Christmas Island, the "devout Muslim" men regularly bed hopped, often in exchange for cash or cigarettes. When he asked one of them wtf he was doing, he patted his stomach, smiled and said "No pregnant, no pregnant..."
Yet they execute gay men and women all over the middle East. Go figure.

Yes, the gay culture has been around since..... who know, since moses was a lad probably, we know it was practiced as part of ancient cultures, but IN THE BEDROOM.... out of sight out of mind, but the cultural revolution since WW2 has brought it into the streets and forced the culture upon the 'normal' people.

I couldnt GAF what people do in the privacy of their own home or private space.... just dont do it in public... FFS if Dan Danny Daniel makes the 'safe schools program' part of the curriculum, like they promised... then I'm taking my kids out of victorian schools. pulling stumps.

[<<Genesis93>>]

News released 2hrs ago...The shooters gay lover has come forward and states the attack was motivated by revenge for being exposed to HIV during a 3-some. Apparently he had a thing for Latino men and the shooting was revenge for having felt "Used". He specifically targeted Latino Gay men....He's no terrorist, just a gay man seeking revenge. An argument could be made that homosexuality was the root cause....lets see the tards in parliament try and ban that!!!

Nope.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-orl ... story.html

In seeking to verify the reports, federal agents have culled Mateen's electronic devices, including a laptop computer and cellphone, as well as electronic communications of those who made the claims, law enforcement officials said.

So far, they have found no photographs, no text messages, no smartphone apps, no gay pornography and no cell-tower location data to suggest that Mateen — who was twice married to women and had a young son — conducted a secret gay life, the officials said.

The FBI is continuing to explore Mateen’s past, but investigators now believe the men who made the claims are not credible, or confused Mateen with someone else.

so....... the MEDIA has reported what the FBI say.... must be true, afterall... the Feds did such a good job keeping tabs on this guy. They investigated him, how many times?? Determined he was no threat, or at least nothing was there to pin on him...
Then returned an 'all good' on the background check....
Days later he goes postal....
Maybe they never heard of the saying "where there's smoke......."


I would dismiss what the Feds say about Mateen now..

Unfortunately, going by the track record of various governments, its clear they dont always tell the whole story, and even that from 'time to time' is either partly or wholly fabricated on various scales.... for example Saddam's WMDs were entirely invented simply and solely to quash IRAQ and its leader. That is indisputable, and now acknowledged by all.

I would expect they'd report what theyre instructed to report.

The gun control / hate crime homophobic attack was 'working' as a narrative. Went off track when it turned out Mateen was 'one of their own'...so lets put it back on track right?

[<<Genesis93>>]

so I wonder how many of the 49 deaths were c/- the Police.....

here

Monday, Orlando Police Chief John Mina and other law enforcement officers offered new details about the shooting, including the possibility that some victims may have been killed by officers trying to save them.

“I will say this, that’s all part of the investigation,” Mina said. “But I will say when our SWAT officers, about eight or nine officers, opened fire, the backdrop was a concrete wall, and they were being fired upon.”

A law enforcement source close to the investigation who asked not to be named said a crowd of up to 300 people and the complex layout of the dance club may have resulted in some patrons being struck by gunfire from officers.

[Eduardo]

I'm still amazed that the gun grabbers were able to turn this one into a gun control issue as opposed to the real issue of Obama's failed policy of trying to "contain" ISIS as opposed to eliminating ISIS.

[adam]

I'm still amazed that the gun grabbers were able to turn this one into a gun control issue as opposed to the real issue of Obama's failed policy of trying to "contain" ISIS as opposed to eliminating ISIS.

Mate, gungrabbers could turn ISIS into a gun control issue. I'm sure if we took guns away from all the LFO's in the west then the East wouldn't be able to source any more guns in the middle east and we wouldn't have this problem any more.

[brett1868]

Every human life has value, homosexuality is not a choice as it's biologically decided before birth. Your statements are your opinion and views and I can respect that but in future please keep the hate talk off the forum.

[AusTac]

Who cares if they were gay, straight, bendy black purple or green, the facts are there and what happened is a tragedy that no one, but the shooter deserved.

Mental illness, religious extremism and being balls deep in political correctness are slowly eroding this country

[brett1868]

The Liberal democrats, be one of those who say NO to political correctness. Seems it's so bad in this country there's a party looking to get elected so they can rid us of it....hmmmm

[adam]

I think any decision that is made on the current information is jumping to a conclusion without waiting for all the facts to settle. No different to P.A. What the public was informed, and what came out later was vastly different - but alas once someone believes something - trying to change their views can be next to impossible in many cases.

It's human nature: To believe the first story we're told, and question any conflicting stories after that. The media and government both know this very well, and play it to their full advantage.

Let's look at the FBI then: Trying to determine accurately who's a threat and who's not would be difficult at best. Add to this Obama's policies discouraging authorities from investigating certain individuals too must because it crosses over to religious discrimination adds to that difficulty. Does that mean we should discredit any findings that they come to after the event?

Tracking down evidence after something is obviously easier - and it's easier to come to a more correct conclusion than trying to guess the future.

The president of the USA has a history of avoiding or delaying linking any terrorist activity on Islam. The media have the same history. There is a lot of conflicting 'evidence' at the moment. Was he was Islamic, or not? Was he gay or not?

I think to discredit the FBI just because they got it wrong prior to an event and rather accept more what the media and Obama push is an interesting decision.

As the FBI's current evidence seems to point to the opposite what both the media and Obama would both like them to be, I for one find interesting, and consider that it's worth paying some attention to.

I have no idea what has happened and have come to no conclusions.

What I'm actually finding it more interesting (and concerning) to see how people are responding to this than the actual event itself on various social media sites, and even just in general - which only serves to further ground my conclusion that many couldn't give a stuff about discovering the real truth and just want a conclusion that fits their own bias.

[Supaduke]

This has nothing to do with free speech or censorship. It's about appropriate and respectful content.

Do you think this sort of nonsense would fly on a decent car/motorbike/4wd/knitting(it's an example) forum. I come here to discuss firearm related topics, be it practical or political. Blatant racism, homophobia, islamaphobia have no place here. It should be about expanding and sharing our knowledge of things that go boom.

I'm not being a sensitive little princess, I enjoy hearty discussion. Like I said, this is a public forum, everyone is entitled to an opinion , let's just keep its content civil and respectful.

[brett1868]

Yep, probably nuf said so lets get back to the things that go boom

[Wylie27]

We have free speech? When did that happen

[Pennsylvania Yank]

As someone who is highly critical of some distorted, disingenuous, and dangerous memes currently being floated by my government elites(as well as elites in other countries) and their useful idiots in the mainstream media regarding illegal immigration and Islamic extremism, I think it's important to point out that I wholly reject their self-serving and incorrect use and application of the terms xenophobia, islamophobia, and bigotry. It appears that some otherwise very intelligent and thoughtful people have also bought into the notion that speaking the truth about certain undeniable and historical aspects of Islam and of Muslims vis a vis their incompatability with Western Democracy is somehow wrong and unacceptable.

While it's certainly true that not all Muslims are Terrorists or commit hateful acts, it’s become crystal clear via the facts and evidence that the overwhelming majority of Muslims around the world today who do not actively participate in hateful acts or violence, nonetheless harbor many very dangerous beliefs, and do also serve to assist and enable the spread of violent jihadism via their reliance on relatively radical imams to guide them, their silence in the face of such violence, their migration patterns, their extremely high birth-rate, and most importantly, their refusal to assimilate into western democratic nations, all the while sucking those same nations dry by overwhelming their social welfare systems.

No sovereign nation has a duty to commit national suicide by throwing out it's immigration controls and allowing people who without a doubt hate our way of life to flood over our borders. This by the way, is all you need to understand the Brexit vote as well.

[Pennsylvania Yank]

As this is a media and politics folder, I will also point out that with some exceptions, the western world's government/media complex are completely exaggerating the scope, influence, struggles, and the importance of a very small LGBT population and have been doing it for a long time. They started with television comedy and entertainment decades ago in order to change public perception and opinion and never looked back. Now due partly to those media efforts, so-called "gay rights" are here to stay. If you don't want to look at or think about LGBT people, It's not that hard to ignore that aspect of their lives.... Live and let live. There are a lot bigger fish to fry w/respect to worldly concerns.