NSW: Greyhound industry to be potentially shut down

[adam]

I was just told that it sounds like the NSW government is looking at taking action to shut down an entire industry with the stroke of a pen: Greyhound Racing...

Did a quick google search and saw a reference to this and found the following quote:

"it should be considered whether the industry had lost its "social licence" to operate and should be shut down.".

Social License? Strewth - It doesn't seem much of a stretch to the imagination to think that they could apply this to other industries if they wanted to (fishing, Shooting, 4WDing, horse racing, etc)...

I'm not a supporter of cruelty to animals, and have never seen a greyhound race or have any interest - but my initial thought to think that this government has no issues with inflicting that much damage on these people's livelihood for the sake of a portion who are doing the wrong thing has me concerned.

I'll back punishing those who are doing wrong - but not an action that takes out those doing right at the same time. Another example of guilty by association unless you can prove your innocence?

[tom604]

lots of dogs going to die

[Squiddy]

There's far more people within the industry doing the right thing than the wrong thing - comes back to a few bad apples spoiling it for everyone.

[<<Genesis93>>]

Industry closing down next year 1 july. ACT industry as well (is there even such a thing in Canberra?)

Successive governments 'had no idea' about the live baiting.... current one neither had any idea until the animal saviors told em so....

Whatever, but the real problem is the GAMBLING that is destroying familes across our suburbs, whether its dogs, horses, pokies or anything money is put on...

Live baiting? that an animal kills another animal?? FFS cant we send these caring people AA, PETA, the Greentards and the RSPCA over to Africa to save all live baiting nature has provided to the Lions, and all other bitey scratchy animals

[Baronvonrort]

Wentworth park is prime inner city land that Baird could sell to developers, all he has to do is demonise the dog racing industry then nobody will object to banning it so he can sell the land.

What next will he ban pig dogging or fox hunting with dogs using the exact same excuse, what about horse racing did they kill Red Cadeaux after the last Melbourne cup.

I have no interest in dog racing yet think it stinks that people want to ban it, of course in Australia nobody really cares if something they don't do or dislike get banned.

[Supaduke]

There is a big difference between natural predation and having a rabbit on a string. Nor do I believe the percentage of bad apples is as small as made out. I have seen (and punted on) many races with strange results and gives rise to questionable ethics when it comes to the outcomes of races. Also the amount of dogs killed when proven to not be winners. The greyhound adoption program is piecemeal at best. This was not a spur of the moment decision. The industry was warned to clean up its act and chose not to. I am sorry for those doing the right thing, but considering how much money is bet on the dish lickers, the industry badly needs a clean up.

[adam]

Whatever, but the real problem is the GAMBLING that is destroying familes across our suburbs, whether its dogs, horses, pokies or anything money is put on...

Come on Genesis... they're only families and people... we're talking animals here - far more important!

The skeptic in me wonders if this is a trial to see whether the government can get away with shutting down other industries using similar tactics and reasons. If this passes, it's going to set a worrying precedent for future governments to follow.

[stockliman]

First of all ,I'll say I enjoy the dish lickers.

I don't have any real issue with culling under performing animals as long as it is done humanily. All farmers make these decisions on a day to day basis. I'm sure,like me they don't live for those decisions,but they have to be made.
The thing that I cannot support is the live baiting. All hunters and farmers I have ever met want death to be as fast as possible and as painless as possible. Most of us wouldn't have an issue killing a fox,cat,dog or pig to save a native animal. We do ,however, do it as swiftly as possible.

As for the comment on dog hunting. I think it is a different scenario as you are not incapacitating the animal first. The pig ,given the chance, will be more than happy to kill your dog and take off. It is a relatively even battle.

[happyhunter]

You get that in dictatorships, which is exactly what NSW government runs like. Too bad for all the dogs that are going to be killed.

[<<Genesis93>>]

There is a big difference between natural predation and having a rabbit on a string. Nor do I believe the percentage of bad apples is as small as made out. I have seen (and punted on) many races with strange results and gives rise to questionable ethics when it comes to the outcomes of races. Also the amount of dogs killed when proven to not be winners. The greyhound adoption program is piecemeal at best. This was not a spur of the moment decision. The industry was warned to clean up its act and chose not to. I am sorry for those doing the right thing, but considering how much money is bet on the dish lickers, the industry badly needs a clean up.

AFAIC, there is a higher degree of cruelty in forcing them to chase a piece of fur tied to a string... and no doubt fake fur too.... Let the dogs chase a rabbit or other running target.... and let the rabbits have experience the adrenaline and exhilaration of running for their lives its NATURAL....

[Supaduke]

It's natural if the rabbit has a fighting chance of escape running free, not restrained to a bait runner and whirled around.
Bottom line it's to give the dogs the taste of blood and theoretically makes them go harder. This then makes it a form of cheating as it gives live baiters a performance edge over ethical trainers that do not bait. It's an archaic practice that is Inhumane.
I have killed more rabbits than I can count, they were however dispatched swiftly and with respect as all hunters should strive for.
Torturing animals, no matter how common or deemed vermin, is just not cool.
As a side note animal torture is a very common trait of serial killers.

[happyhunter]

Thus begins the moral/ethical rantings... hmmm.

When I was I was kid there was an old man a couple farms down the road. He ran dogs and on rare occasions I used to give him a hand. he'd put a chicken in a feed bag and show it to the dogs. Then I'd hold the dog at one of the run while he walked to the other and I'd release the dog, the dog would run and the process would repeat. At then of the session he'd let the dog have the bag although being a kid I never understood why he let the dogs have the chook as they'd already run, but I guess it was there reward.

Whatever the course, blooding racing dogs is nothing new and I personally have no problem with it and anybody who ate a steak/porkchop/burger etc.. in the last few days has no right to complain about animal cruelty when the cruelest thing you can do to an animal is farm it then tansport it to the slaughter yard.

Whatever, but the real problem is the GAMBLING that is destroying familes across our suburbs, whether its dogs, horses, pokies or anything money is put on...

hahaha.. I don't gamble but love the casino and all it stands for, I mean, society needs somewhere to launder it's black market gotton gains and escorts need somewhere to earn a penny. Pokies are doubly awesome. If people are too stupid to not fall victims to the ringing bells and flashing lights then they get what they deserve.

[quote]

[on_one_wheel]

I read an interesting article that linked a Senator, a inner citty developor who's interested in the Wentworth Park Greyhound Track and the sudden ban of Greyhound racing..... nothing suss going on here.

[Supaduke]

Difference between a rant and an opinion mate. I eat meat, I have delivered livestock to abotoirs, I have seen the process, I have done my own butchering. I worked on fishing trawlers for 5 years and have killed more sealife than 1000 people would in a lifetime.
I accept and agree with the use of animals as essentially a commodity. It's not hypocritical to eat meat and at the same time not endorse or condone animal cruelty.
Big difference between swiftly and respectfully dispatching an animal as opposed to having it suffer and linger.
Stringing a rabbit up is cruel.
The racing industry was warned to clean it's act up, including several high profile trainers being banned for live baiting. The industry chose not to listen.
You don't have to agree with my position, but it certainly doesn't make it a rant if I disagree with you.

[<<Genesis93>>]

Your opinion Supaduke, and I respect it.

However, I'm not in the least bit concerned about live baiting of animals. Not at all.

I am however concerned at the live baiting of humans, those mesmerised by the pokies, or watching the screen in the sportsbar, clutching their last $50 worth of bets as they watch in vain as they lose AGAIN.....

[Supaduke]

I did a few years in the security industry. One of my first gigs was bouncing/security in a pokies venue. Often did the graveyard shift.

I used to see people, obviously on their way to work, come in at 6am with a handful of change. They would scrounge together $6-$7 and get their 'fix' then head off. I saw a woman win the $15000 jackpot then proceed to gamble every cent away on the same machine. Pokies are a blight on our society. I don't think gambling should be banned however. I enjoy a punt and love playing poker at the casino. We can't live in a world where everything is banned because a few idiots can't control themselves.

Unfortunately that seems to be the new thing in government, govern to the lowest common denominator rather than there be some responsibility for ones actions.

[<<Genesis93>>]

Your opinion Supaduke, and I respect it.

However, I'm not in the least bit concerned about live baiting of animals. Not at all.

I am however concerned at the live baiting of humans, those mesmerised by the pokies, or watching the screen in the sportsbar, clutching their last $50 worth of bets as they watch in vain as they lose AGAIN.....

Those people are idiots, they chose to be there, but the rabbit being live bait didn't get a say.

Yes, they are idiots... there was another 'victim' on the news today... who 'lost' $300,000 and therefore has to sell the family home before the banks do....yes she's an idiot... and her husband who no doubt worked his whole life to pay for the house... is for some reason still sitting net to her...holding it together.

However....

Our government, the filthy so and sos love the revenue and are as addicted as the morons who sit in front of the machines... Victoria has one of if not the highest density of poker 'Electronic Gaming Machines' IN THE WORLD!??... 30,000 machines in VIC....and theres a website that shows you how much money YOUR local 'community' is losing...

https://www.vcgr.vic.gov.au

Example 2014/2015 punter's losses;
OLD ENGLAND HOTEL, HEIDELBERG, $11,533,093.85,
YARRAVILLE CLUB CRICKET CLUB, MAIDSTONE , $13,606,750.17
GLADSTONE PARK HOTEL, TULLAMARINE, $18,744,701.91
KEYSBOROUGH HOTEL, KEYSBOROUGH, $19,705,513.32
SEAFORD TAVERNER, SEAFORD , $16,346,192.56
EDWARDES LAKE HOTEL, RESERVOIR , $13,585,256.44
BERWICK SPRINGS HOTEL, BERWICK , $14,817,705.70
CARDINIA CLUB , PAKENHAM , $11,218,364.30
KEALBA HOTEL, KEALBA , $17,788,348.56
CARDINIA CLUB, PAKENHAM , $11,218,364.30

These are the highest 'losses' per premises from random regions.... there may be higher individual values, but the forth example above represents a loss, per calendar day of about $54,000!!!

Now add up all the locations across the 30,000 machines...

....and that above concerns me a whole heap more than this nonsense of live baiting.... sorry if you dont agree.

[juststarting]

I read an interesting article that linked a Senator, a inner citty developor who's interested in the Wentworth Park Greyhound Track and the sudden ban of Greyhound racing..... nothing suss going on here.

Nah, nothing to see here.

Heard an interview on 774 today too, debating the numbers. I know bs flows both ways, but the guy had interesting points, especially about numbers of dogs killed. On top of that, there are existing laws to deal with animal cruelty - why is this not applied? I thought collective punishment was illegal? This is mental, since there are a lot of people who will be out of jobs, properties, everything. Sounds like there's a legal fight in the works.

[on_one_wheel]

I read an interesting article that linked a Senator, a inner citty developor who's interested in the Wentworth Park Greyhound Track and the sudden ban of Greyhound racing..... nothing suss going on here.

Nah, nothing to see here.

Heard an interview on 774 today too, debating the numbers. I know bs flows both ways, but the guy had interesting points, especially about numbers of dogs killed. On top of that, there are existing laws to deal with animal cruelty - why is this not applied? I thought collective punishment was illegal? This is mental, since there are a lot of people who will be out of jobs, properties, everything. Sounds like there's a legal fight in the works.

That's right.
If the regulators had been doing their jobs by way of inspections there would be no problem.
Fancy punishing the whole industry for the actions of a few ( hello FA owners, sound familiar )

I know a couple of people who race dogs, they aren't going to sit still over this.
One of them not only races dogs, she re-homes suitable dogs that have retired.

While live animal baiting for training purposes happens, it's not wide spread.

[Baronvonrort]

Those who liked to bet on the dogs can go to the Casino which is the only place left open late at night since Baird's lockout laws banned people from drinking in clubs and pubs.

The tribe should speak and tell this turkey to go at the next election.

[Oldbloke]

The failing here is the NSW Gov. As is often the case they did not police the industry more than likely due to cost cutting. The industry should in my view continue. And the NSW government kick the arses of those that break the rules. Inocent people must never be punished for the wrong doing of others. The live baiting will then no longer be a problem. The gov have simply taken the cheap option again.

IMO live baiting is not acceptable and in no way can it be compared with fair chase.

[Gwion]

Your opinion Supaduke, and I respect it.

However, I'm not in the least bit concerned about live baiting of animals. Not at all.

I am however concerned at the live baiting of humans, those mesmerised by the pokies, or watching the screen in the sportsbar, clutching their last $50 worth of bets as they watch in vain as they lose AGAIN.....

Those people are idiots, they chose to be there, but the rabbit being live bait didn't get a say.

^^^^^^^^^^^^
That.

[bluerob]

Your opinion Supaduke, and I respect it.

However, I'm not in the least bit concerned about live baiting of animals. Not at all.

I am however concerned at the live baiting of humans, those mesmerised by the pokies, or watching the screen in the sportsbar, clutching their last $50 worth of bets as they watch in vain as they lose AGAIN.....

Those people are idiots, they chose to be there, but the rabbit being live bait didn't get a say.

Yes, they are idiots... there was another 'victim' on the news today... who 'lost' $300,000 and therefore has to sell the family home before the banks do....yes she's an idiot... and her husband who no doubt worked his whole life to pay for the house... is for some reason still sitting net to her...holding it together.

However....

Our government, the filthy so and sos love the revenue and are as addicted as the morons who sit in front of the machines... Victoria has one of if not the highest density of poker 'Electronic Gaming Machines' IN THE WORLD!??... 30,000 machines in VIC....and theres a website that shows you how much money YOUR local 'community' is losing...

https://www.vcgr.vic.gov.au

Example 2014/2015 punter's losses;
OLD ENGLAND HOTEL, HEIDELBERG, $11,533,093.85,
YARRAVILLE CLUB CRICKET CLUB, MAIDSTONE , $13,606,750.17
GLADSTONE PARK HOTEL, TULLAMARINE, $18,744,701.91
KEYSBOROUGH HOTEL, KEYSBOROUGH, $19,705,513.32
SEAFORD TAVERNER, SEAFORD , $16,346,192.56
EDWARDES LAKE HOTEL, RESERVOIR , $13,585,256.44
BERWICK SPRINGS HOTEL, BERWICK , $14,817,705.70
CARDINIA CLUB , PAKENHAM , $11,218,364.30
KEALBA HOTEL, KEALBA , $17,788,348.56
CARDINIA CLUB, PAKENHAM , $11,218,364.30

These are the highest 'losses' per premises from random regions.... there may be higher individual values, but the forth example above represents a loss, per calendar day of about $54,000!!!

Now add up all the locations across the 30,000 machines...

....and that above concerns me a whole heap more than this nonsense of live baiting.... sorry if you dont agree.

Revenue raising you mention....

Been reported that in NSW, EVERY Police car will be fitted with speed cameras (GD cars for example).

If you're doing 70 in a 60 zone and a GD car is heading towards you (maybe Highway Patrol will have the same system - they weren't mentioned), your speed will be detected via laser, a photo of your rego plate and the driver (start wearing masks people) will be processed (Police car plugs into a computer cord at end of shift) and you'll get a fine in the mail.

This stops any need for the Police react, as in, the small chase they are allowed now, instead of the old days of driving like a race car to book someone doing 70 in a 60 zone.

[<<Genesis93>>]

I'll bet the infringement notice will be IN the mail - BEFORE the end of the shift, no plug in required....

[on_one_wheel]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NXVtaYCDoLo
And then some days live baiting turns out OK!

That was quite gory.

My missus always barracks for the bulls at rodeos, she likes the show, doesn't have a problem with rodeos .... just gets excited when the bull wins.
She has spent her whole working life breaking in bulls for shows, that might explain it.

[juststarting]

Your opinion Supaduke, and I respect it.
However, I'm not in the least bit concerned about live baiting of animals. Not at all.

Option, don't agree, but whatever, we've been known to disagree

I am however concerned at the live baiting of humans, those mesmerised by the pokies, or watching the screen in the sportsbar, clutching their last $50 worth of bets as they watch in vain as they lose AGAIN.....

This is called Strawman argument. No good.

But... While I personally think it is cruel and disgusting, I then think, well, what about fishing? I don't think that's disgusting. Popping a live bait fish or a worm on a hook? I am not sure about pain sensors there, but I am certain that there's some discomfort, at least... That's live baiting, nobody complains. Then we have rodents, used as pet food for pet reptiles (or zoo reptiles). Again, the rodent didn't get a say in it, but nevertheless killed for happiness of a human, pets make us happy. So is a rabbit somehow worth more than a fish, worm, mouse or rat for entertainment value?

Considering that humans are the apex specie, wouldn't livelihood of a human, someone invested entirely in that industry, who stands to lose everything, be worth more than a rabbit?

A slightly more obscure example. Let's go with an army/police dog that gets sent into a life endangering situation instead of a human... We certainly have a life value/worth ladder here, so how are these live baiting situations different to each other? Some are 100% acceptable by us, but a rabbit is crossing the line somehow?

Food for thought.

[on_one_wheel]

This whole saga is about the rspca having its idealogical way with the rest of the world not greyhounds.
Not a single person has been prosecuted for the alleged acts . If live baiting was happening and they had proof someone would be in front of a judge. ... but nothing.

I just had rspca pop up on my farcebook page in one of their donation funded "sponsored posts"

Naturally I commented.

I put up a picture and a news article link to prove their hypocrisy.

A picture of the photoshoped rabbit

download (2).jpg (8.63 KiB) Viewed 5039 times

And a link to the rspca rabbit concrete drowning
https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&sour ... om7XRMLuKQ

And a link to tge rspca negligent cattle slaughter

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&sour ... 4EuEH8E86w
With the comment "What a disgraceful waste of donated funds" (as it cost them a 2 million dollar payout to the farmer)

Result : instantaneously banned from the SA rspca facebook page and my comments deleted.

I guess it hit a nerve

May the truth speak louder than lies.

[VICHunter]

lots of dogs going to die

Disclaimer, I don't follow the dogs but....

Is that not the problem already? I hear numbers on the radio like 70,000 in the past some number of years as they kill all but the fastest from litters.

That some will die now is hardly a justification for keeping the sport if/when they continue to keep killing them for as long as it's running.

(Not against the sport, just on that point)