National Firearms Agreement

[pete1]

So i get a newsletter from NIOA every so often and latest one is the NFA are going to have a review in October and there stating that there is no consultation before this meeting and lever action guns may be on the engender, which is highly possible. They're asking everyone to write to police ministers and all levels of government asking for consultation with recreational organisations and the industry.
Wondering everyone's thoughts on what we know about NFA?

[on_one_wheel]

Mr noia can thank himself for putting lever actions in the spotlight by advertising the adler as a game changing, rapid fire death machine.
Hopefully he puts up a bunch of his own coin to lobby against further restrictions,

If they do pass further restrictions, I look forward to reading the justification (lies) behind them, and the SSAA coming forward to say how disappointed they are while sitting firmly on their hands.

[Wylie27]

Yep nioa is responsible for this and then they sat on their hands whilst it went pear shaped and only now are getting in the game?

there is only so much I can do. I have sent letters, emails and met with MP's both state and federal. we need a lobby group...

[Sydor]

Yep nioa is responsible for this and then they sat on their hands whilst it went pear shaped and only now are getting in the game?

there is only so much I can do. I have sent letters, emails and met with MP's both state and federal. we need a lobby group...

Lobby group would not do much. Even lobby group with money would not do much.
LAFO need to vote as a block. And make sure that it is visible to pollies.
NRA achieved so much because they have demonstrated to pollies that they have significant voters block behind them. The voters who listen to NRA can swing election results.

Until that we are a blip on radar. Having one LDP member in the Fed senate and a few SFFP members on State level is not enough.
How can we do better... I mentioned creating an alliance for the next election on another forum. I was called names for not showing proper love and respect to SFFP.

[dpskipper]

Yep nioa is responsible for this and then they sat on their hands whilst it went pear shaped and only now are getting in the game?

there is only so much I can do. I have sent letters, emails and met with MP's both state and federal. we need a lobby group...

Lobby group would not do much. Even lobby group with money would not do much.
LAFO need to vote as a block. And make sure that it is visible to pollies.
NRA achieved so much because they have demonstrated to pollies that they have significant voters block behind them. The voters who listen to NRA can swing election results.

Until that we are a blip on radar. Having one LDP member in the Fed senate and a few SFFP members on State level is not enough.
How can we do better... I mentioned creating an alliance for the next election on another forum. I was called names for not showing proper love and respect to SFFP.

Yep. The only way our voice is heard is with our vote. Every election I see nothing major change. At every election we need to coordinated the voting and make sure our numbers swing the outcome.

[Gwion]

I think it is completely unrealistic to expect people to vote purely based on their interest in shooting.

[dpskipper]

I understand that, but its the only realistic way we can make an impact on our gun laws.

[Gwion]

Not alienating the general public by calling anyone who slightly disagrees with a certain perspective a "latte sipping, tree hugging, ignorant city dwelling greenie oxygen thief" would be a start.

Convincing the general public that the pressure on our freedoms is pressure on their freedoms through thoughtful and intelligent dialogue and pointing out the falsehoods directed at the shooting public might; just might; get some more mainstream polis with a sense of decency to support shooters' rights and oppose restrictive bills when they come through parliament.

[on_one_wheel]

I think it is completely unrealistic to expect people to vote purely based on their interest in shooting.

Unfortunately this is probably our biggest problem.

[Gun-nut]

Guys it aint Nioa's fault, the government of this nanny state have had this in the pipeline for many years now. If anything the adler made us aware of it.

[dpskipper]

You are right in some ways, the media probably did blow out of proportion some of the adler marketing. At the end of the day Nioa needs to approach this in a better way. "New technology" is not one of those ways.

[Gamerancher]

Nioa doesn't think of anything but profits. Thank him for the increase in price of most of your gear. Can't import Leupold scopes yourself thanks to Nioa, price of Lapua through the roof, Nioa............

[dpskipper]

I will agree NIOA does hold an monopoly on leupold scopes in aus. However I don' think its that bad because you get the repair facilities. its a trade off.

However it is still much cheaper to import from the US myself other leupold gear like rangefinders. Don't bother getting one from your local gunshop, they are at least 2/3 hundred dollars more.

[Gamerancher]

Yeah, just had to send one in for mods, cost more at Nioa than it used to in the U.S. and thanks to his "exclusive" deal you can no longer send them back to the U.S.

[doc]

Convincing the general public that the pressure on our freedoms is pressure on their freedoms through thoughtful and intelligent dialogue and pointing out the falsehoods directed at the <insert here>

And this is where we have a big problem. It's not just firearms. I read Andrew Bolt's recent article in the paper about the new tactics used to silence any opposition discussions to pushes for changes to laws. Not debate them. Not point out there errors. Straight out silence - through any means necessary. Their belief: the end justifies the means.

I welcome a fair and level debate on anything. I'll probably lose a few people here, but I'd happily sit in a room with Samantha Lee and talk - if she was willing to have a discussion and proper debate. Or with anyone about anything that I'm passionate about provided that the floor is shared equally.

But this growing movement against fair debates and free speech - including many in the media is a clear danger that we're facing.

We have more chance of banding together with everyone else who advocates for free speech and fair & respectable debates (regardless of whether you agree or disagree with what they are for or against) to do something about this, than just those interested in firearms.

[dpskipper]

Convincing the general public that the pressure on our freedoms is pressure on their freedoms through thoughtful and intelligent dialogue and pointing out the falsehoods directed at the <insert here>

And this is where we have a big problem. It's not just firearms. I read Andrew Bolt's recent article in the paper about the new tactics used to silence any opposition discussions to pushes for changes to laws. Not debate them. Not point out there errors. Straight out silence - through any means necessary. Their belief: the end justifies the means.

I welcome a fair and level debate on anything. I'll probably lose a few people here, but I'd happily sit in a room with Samantha Lee and talk - if she was willing to have a discussion and proper debate. Or with anyone about anything that I'm passionate about provided that the floor is shared equally.

But this growing movement against fair debates and free speech - including many in the media is a clear danger that we're facing.

We have more chance of banding together with everyone else who advocates for free speech and fair & respectable debates (regardless of whether you agree or disagree with what they are for or against) to do something about this, than just those interested in firearms.

I'm in the same boat. I'm happy to have a fair debate with a neutral adjudicator with anyone. If Sam Lee would agree to a fair debate in which each person has 30 seconds of uninterrupted talk to share their point and give the other person time for a rebuttal.

[Sydor]

Nioa request or not - it is irrelevant.

No mainstream politician would pay LAFOs any attention until LAFOs demonstrate that they have some weight during election.
If (when) the next set of restrictions come we could choose to run a public demonstration in front of our state parliament building. Even (OMG) with SSAA against it.
I wonder how many out of 800000 LAFOs would come...

[dpskipper]

Not many I can tell you. I don't know many LAFOs who would like to make their hobby public...

[juststarting]

Not many I can tell you. I don't know many LAFOs who would like to make their hobby public...

That's interesting, I've been thinking about this a bit lately. I tend to agree with you, but not sure if it's for the right reasons. I don't really hide it, well, actually I just don't hide it. I also work in a huge company, in an office, blah, blah, blah... And frequently discuss shooting with people, openly. But this is in my circles, so to speak. I don't mind making it public, buy at the same time how public are we talking about. For example, my concern is family/personal/home safety and security rather than an opinion of some clueless twat that has no clue other than TV and can be convinced otherwise once you explain things to them calmly and logically.

I am guessing a lot of people are in the same boat, nothing to do with public opinion.

[dpskipper]

Yeah, I maybe didn't make myself clear. I have no problem with shooting discussion among friends/family. But I wouldn't openly talk about it at some packed restaurant or something. The general public get their shooting knowledge via the news so they will judge you even though they actually know very little.

[juststarting]

I do. No issues.

[Gwion]

The real problem, from my view, is that those who are most vocal and open about their shooting interests are those who make us all look like a bunch of twats.

Take for instance the shooting of effigies posted to social media recently and those who openly condone it.

Like it or not, that sort of behaviour is seen as aggressive and threatening by the general public and it does not cast shooters in a good light!

This is also the risk of large public demonstrations. I am all for it in principle, but the likes of these buffoons will be out to hi-jack the assembly and rouse the rabble. They may get a buzz out of it and feel they are "expressing themselves", but they are doing us all damage in the public eye. Like all marketing and word of mouth, one bad report makes a bigger impact than 5 good ones. As they say, a happy customer might tell 3 people but an unhappy customer will tell 10! Same principle with idiots in the public eye.

Unfortunately, as others have intimated above, it is very difficult to get a fair and open platform to discuss the relevant issues in a rational and intelligent manner. Most traditional media platforms are closed to the pro-shooting voice and platforms like YouTube are all preaching to the choir.

[dpskipper]

Well said.

[juststarting]

Gwion, yep

[Sydor]

The real problem, from my view, is that those who are most vocal and open about their shooting interests are those who make us all look like a bunch of twats.
...
This is also the risk of large public demonstrations. I am all for it in principle, but the likes of these buffoons will be out to hi-jack the assembly and rouse the rabble.
....

This is what I am also worried about. I am not sure how to deal with it.
And hear the second point:

Not many I can tell you. I don't know many LAFOs who would like to make their hobby public...

I found it very rewarding talking to people about shooting and hunting. Yes - I do not discuss it at PETA rallies (I do not go there). But I raise it in casual discussion every time I can. I have shooting target as my screensaver on the laptop and people ask me about it. I use it to explain about target shooting and hunting and pest control. I've yet to encounter a hostile response. I managed to get acquainted with a few fellow LAFOs. It is amazing how their faces changes when I tell them that I hunt, shoot, and enjoy my firearms. Those who do not shoot usually ask a lot of questions about rules, regulations, and cooking rabbits . I managed to get 4 people into the sport by talking about it.

If we would not demonstrate we have to talk.
We have to make as many people aware that the usual stereotype of a red neck bogan kill-for-thrills shooter that Greens and media are pushing is a lie. That we are as diverse (hate this word) as the society around us.

[dpskipper]

The real problem, from my view, is that those who are most vocal and open about their shooting interests are those who make us all look like a bunch of twats.
...
This is also the risk of large public demonstrations. I am all for it in principle, but the likes of these buffoons will be out to hi-jack the assembly and rouse the rabble.
....

This is what I am also worried about. I am not sure how to deal with it.
And hear the second point:

Not many I can tell you. I don't know many LAFOs who would like to make their hobby public...

I found it very rewarding talking to people about shooting and hunting. Yes - I do not discuss it at PETA rallies (I do not go there). But I raise it in casual discussion every time I can. I have shooting target as my screensaver on the laptop and people ask me about it. I use it to explain about target shooting and hunting and pest control. I've yet to encounter a hostile response. I managed to get acquainted with a few fellow LAFOs. It is amazing how their faces changes when I tell them that I hunt, shoot, and enjoy my firearms. Those who do not shoot usually ask a lot of questions about rules, regulations, and cooking rabbits . I managed to get 4 people into the sport by talking about it.

If we would not demonstrate we have to talk.
We have to make as many people aware that the usual stereotype of a red neck bogan kill-for-thrills shooter that Greens and media are pushing is a lie. That we are as diverse (hate this word) as the society around us.

I envy the environment you work in. Admittedly your sample size is quite small, my experiences have been negative.

[juststarting]

I think a lot of it has to do with how softly/well spoken and how 'well presented' they are. Never had an issue.

OMFG you shoot! How can you?!?! Guns, bad, do drugs instead.... After one of those conversations, one dude is on the way to getting his licence and a .22. Boom!

[brett1868]

It also has a lot to do with how you portray the sport. What we call hunting they may consider as blowing Bambi's head off or brutally murdering cute fluffy bunnies which is far from reality. I push the line of it being a precision sport requiring skill, dedication and patience much like golf or tennis which draws a relationship they understand. Ignorance is our enemy and by portraying our sport as being like any other I hope can build a little tolerance and maybe acceptance. Then I wake up and realise the world isn't made up of fair and reasonable people.....

[doc]

Maybe I should carry photo's of lambs that have been mauled by foxes, and also carry photo's of happy lambs playing in the field that "I've saved" from foxes, and present these to the concerned citizens that guns are bad and ask them what would they prefer. Then instead of me being the bad guy, I'm the good guy.

Yes, the way the sport is portrayed is a huge problem we face. As mentioned, many respectable shooters are cautious about promoting their sport to people they don't know well. (Not only from a backlash point of view, but also from a security point of view), and those who don't really care aren't the best people for the public to be seeing.

This is one battle I don't see being won by big campaigns, and mass 'converts', but rather on an individual basis - one on one with people.

[sally-bee]

The real problem, from my view, is that those who are most vocal and open about their shooting interests are those who make us all look like a bunch of twats.

Totally agree.

It makes me cringe when I hear one of the NRA guys do their "from my cold dead hands" bit.