Adler to Cat D

[sandgroperbill]

Time to make more phone calls and write more letters

The news this morning is reporting that the Adler will move to Category D and isn't differentiating between 5 or more shots. Apparently NSW has just agreed.

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-0 ... on/8090854

[sandgroperbill]

Perhaps over the next few hours we may find that 5 will be B and more will be D...

[<<Genesis93>>]

Mongrels.

Was NSW the only hold out with the NFA recat??

[<<Genesis93>>]

Give that this whole adler sh#tstorm is based pretty much off the Martin Place hoopla puppet show inquiry, its a good time to review the Martin Place outcome;

Martin Place Siege: Joint Commonwealth – New South Wales review -

The Coroner has announced that his inquiry will examine in detail the gun used by Monis. On the information available to the Review, it appears that the firearm used by Monis may have entered Australia lawfully and became a ’grey market’ firearm when not returned as part of the 1996 National Buy Back program.

TRANSLATION - absolutely no proof what so ever that the shotgun was NOT imported in a container the week prior to the incident. BUT the opportunity to perpetuate the 'grey' market otherwise lawful gunowners gone bad fallacy should not be lost....

Monis was at no time issued a firearms licence, and at no time did he legally own or import a firearm.

Through its considerations of the issues in this area, the Review has identified shortcomings in the accuracy and consistency of firearms data in Australia.

Consider the state/national registries and countless hundreds of millions / billions of dollars we as taxpayer have thrown at this because "it is for the safety of our community" to track the lawful ....

The Review understands that Monis used an illegal firearm. The Australian Crime Commission has advised there are in the order of 250,000 illegal firearms in Australia. The Review recommends that the Commonwealth and the States and Territories should give further consideration to measures to deal with illegal firearms.

Thats.....ILLEGAL firearms.

The recommendations??;

The Review recommends that:

6.The Commonwealth, States and Territories should simplify the regulation of the legal firearms market through an update of the technical elements of the National Firearms Agreement.

7.CrimTrac, in cooperation with Commonwealth and State Police and law enforcement agencies should prioritise bringing the National Firearms Interface into operation by the end of 2015.

8.States and Territories’ police forces should conduct an urgent audit of their firearms data holdings before the National Firearms Interface is operational where this has not already occurred.

9.The Commonwealth and the States and Territories should give further consideration to measures to deal with illegal firearms.

So update the 'technical elements' to SIMPLIFY the regulation.....

I missed anything to do with further restrictions on lever-shotties.... totally unrelated to pump shotties; in fact I would say the operation of a sawed off adler would be a heck of a lot more difficult than a pump, considering the hand comes off the stock/trigger to action, as opposed to the pump ....
Mongrels....

[Gun-nut]

I received an email from my state's police minister. The consensus at the COAG meeting was that 5 shot lever action shotties would be moved to CAT B, and the 7 shot variety would be moved to CAT D. Don't let this one slide by people, we have until friday. Send emails, have meetings with your state police ministers and threaten them with the loss of your vote with the state elections coming up.

[heeple]

We all know where this is going.

If the Adler goes Cat D they'll immediately start making calls for ALL levers to be Cat D siting the Adler as an example and pretending it's been Cat D all along, ignoring the BS storm in a teacup s**t that's lead up to it.

[sandgroperbill]

Yup. Wait until they move to .22 lever actions with tube mags greater than 5 rounds, the various pistol Cal levers, and so forth and so forth.

[Title_II]

This is completely ridiculous. I can't believe these jerks are still at this.

[RoginaJack]

Moving the Adler 7 shot to Cat. B, I might consider but moving it to Cat. D out of the question. This category will put it out of reach for farmers & graziers for pest control purposes.

Not happy, Jan!

[juststarting]

Time to make more phone calls and write more letters

Does anyone actually think it makes ANY difference?

[happyhunter]

Time to make more phone calls and write more letters

Does anyone actually think it makes ANY difference?

Nup. In the end it will be what the police want it to be. Everything else is a democracy re-enactment.

[Deacon]

What a joke... It's moved well beyond stupid, now it's just pathetic what these whiny dipshits get up in arms about. Anyway, does anyone know about New Zealand immigration processes for Australian citizens?

[RoginaJack]

From SKY NEWS -

Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull said on Sunday ' the classification of firearms and regulation of them is a matter for states and territories under the national firearms agreement' .

The likely outcome now is that the Adler will be reclassified as category D, making them available to basically only ' very few users' such as feral pest controllers, generally working for governments.

Perhaps the Prime Minster would like to explain how this will assist farmers and grazers trying to control feral animals on their properties.

Labor frontbencher Anthony Albanese, speaking in the NSW regional city of Dubbo, said the D category was a fair compromise.

Yeah, for Who??

'A category D licence would enable people who require access to the Adler gun to have it, but ensure that those people who don't need that access don't have it,' he told reporters.

Well, doesn't that apply to ALL Licence categories?

However, the Alannah and Madeline Foundation, established in memory of sisters killed in the Port Arthur massacre, cautioned against any watering down of gun laws.

Yep, reference a terrible situation that has nothing to do with this subject!

'In particular, there should be no moves to water down the restrictions applied to Category D firearms,' chief executive Lesley Podesta said on Sunday.

Where is "the watering down"? Actually, I could argue that this actually strengthens the gun laws!

'Now is not the time to be horse-trading away community safety,' she added.

Yep, lets not forget the children and "community safety"

What a load of rubbish!
- See more at: http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-stor ... wDSEv.dpuf

[Title_II]

Time to make more phone calls and write more letters

Does anyone actually think it makes ANY difference?

Do it anyway. Don't let these people live in an echo chamber. They need to know we are out here. You have to lose a hundred times before you start getting wins. One day we will catch them vulnerable, or we will get the media attention we need, or the participation, and they need to know we are real movement when that time comes.

[brett1868]

5 shot will be cat B and 7 shot Cat D, So...when can I get a 5 shot AR15 and Pump Action 12Ga? Sets a dangerous precedent to use the action type to determine classification. I think the anti-gun tards now filled with a sense of victory will probably move onto other lever actions and how they can restrict them. Interesting times ahead and I'll step up my letter writing further, not that it helped but at least I tried.

[sakoBC]

When politicians pander to the ignorant majority and the vocal minority it’s time to support minority parties who show a glimmer of common sense, or simply support what is important to you.

Writing to a labour or Liberal politician is useless as they are following the party line. Just ask the Nationals. Blindly supporting Mike Baird and ignoring their grassroots supporters is providing them with a near death experience in Orange.

Voting for a pro-firearms minor party is the only way to stop the madness. If the 7 shot Adler becomes a Cat D firearm, the Labour and Liberal parties (State, Federal & Local) cease to exist for me.

[<<Genesis93>>]

What a joke... It's moved well beyond stupid, now it's just pathetic what these whiny dipshits get up in arms about. Anyway, does anyone know about New Zealand immigration processes for Australian citizens?

https://www.immigration.govt.nz/new-zea ... ermanently



I'll bet more than a few Aussies will be googling this in 4 days when the Injustice Minister releases a statement that "All the States have agreed" to "Make Australia safe again" by removing the scourge of rapid fire death weapon rifle guns from the streets of our suburbs....

effing grubs....they knew that if they push it long enough they'd get there....

[<<Genesis93>>]

5 shot will be cat B and 7 shot Cat D, So...when can I get a 5 shot AR15 and Pump Action 12Ga? Sets a dangerous precedent to use the action type to determine classification. I think the anti-gun tards now filled with a sense of victory will probably move onto other lever actions and how they can restrict them. Interesting times ahead and I'll step up my letter writing further, not that it helped but at least I tried.

If the recat does go thru, then the case would be clear; "Rapid fire" 5 shot to B - then logically (in very short supply around this matter) the Semi Auto 12g must also go to 'C'.... what, its not rapid fire?? What then 'rapider' fire? more very rapid - rapid??

With there emotive, speak before letting the brain catch up non-sense we've seen - theyve painted themselves into a corner. Once the Addie goes to 'B'; the rhetoric from the firearms community, thats ALL shooters and representative groups, whether or not they 'shotgun'... MUST call for semi to go to 'B', out of LOGIC and PRINCIPLE....

The attack on guns is in TRUE Fabian Socialist style.....ie, bit by bit, slowly but surely, you guys know the rest.

[Download]

If they're doing this then we need to get Cat C guns recategorised as Cat B

[Download]

Should I put a deposit down on a 10/22?

[juststarting]

It's like you blokes using common sense and logic or something. LOL

[Gun-nut]

Guys don't just send emails, have phone calls and more importantly face to face meetings with your state police ministers. Re-categorizing the adler is NOT FINAL! Don't give up if we continue to apply pressure on the politicians we can win this, especially since the orange by election is fresh in their minds. DON'T GIVE UP.

I got this off firearm owners united facebook page:

Contrary to what Newscorp "journalist" and convicted drunk driver Samantha Maiden might like to think, the reclassification of lever-action shotguns is NOT a done deal:
- COAG doesn't happen until Friday.
- NO legislation to reclassify has yet been presented to any State or Territory Parliament.
You need to contact your State/ Territory Police Minister TODAY to let them know that any further attacks on lawful firearm owners will have electoral consequences. The pain of the Orange bi-election is still fresh in their minds.
Here is the letter that we have sent to the NSW Police Minister. Copy, adapt, modify, whatever to your heart's content. But send SOMETHING.
Today - or don't come crying to us when Air Rifles are recategorised as CAT D:
"I write to express my grave concern over the rumoured reclassification of lever-action shotguns at the forthcoming COAG meeting, in violation of the 1996 National Firearms Agreement.
The media-fuelled hysteria around the Adler A-110 shotgun in particular – and lever-action shotguns in general – is a disgrace. Contrary to the factually incorrect statements repeatedly made by both journalists and politicians:
• The Adler A-110 contains no “new technology”. It is functionally identical to shotguns lawfully available for over 120 years. There are several models from other manufacturers that have been lawfully available in Australia as CATEGORY A firearms both prior to, and since 1996. There is no record of a terrorist incident, mass shooting or other major event associated with a lever-action shotgun.
• The Adler A-110 is not by any measure a “rapid fire” shotgun. Automatic shotguns with a rate of fire of hundreds of shells per minute are “rapid fire”. Semi-automatic shotguns are slower. Pump-action shotguns are even slower. Lever-action shotguns are the slowest – with an effective rate of fire even slower than double or triple barrel shotguns. To fire each round, the lever must be cycled – moving the firing hand away from the trigger.
o Further, to reload a lever-action firearm once the 5, 7, 10, whatever rounds have been expended each round must be individually loaded into the magazine. Even for competitive shooters who regularly practice fast reloading in IPSC and 3-Gun matches, this is a labouriously slow process.
o The same reloading constraints apply to pump-action and semi-automatic shotguns - which were classified as CATEGORY C under the 1996 NFA.
o If this firearm is so deadly, why have the AFF not expressed any interest in arming our forces with it? Yes – that’s a rhetorical question.
• News reports have consistently associated the proposed lever-action shotgun reclassification with the Lindt Café terrorist incident. Under no circumstances should this incident be linked to any measures applied to lawful firearms owners:
o Man Monis used an illegally obtained, illegally modified pump-action shotgun – as a CATEGORY C firearm, already far more tightly restricted than the Adler A-110.
o Like the illegal handgun used by a terrorist to murder NSW police employee Curtis Cheng, this firearm had never been registered and was therefore most likely illegally imported.
o Modifying a lever-action shotgun by shortening it inevitably reduces the magazine capacity.
o The Lindt Café incident demonstrated the futility of applying draconian restrictions to lawful firearms users. Twenty years after the NFA, determined amateur criminals can still readily access highly restricted black market firearms.
• Newscorp journalist and convicted drunk-driver Samantha Maiden has made unsubstantiated claims that a “shortened Adler A-110” was recently seized by Broken Hill police. Neither the Broken Hill police station nor the NSW Police Media unit appear to have any knowledge of this.
For twenty years law-abiding firearm owners – the group least likely to commit an indictable offence – have been subjected to unjust, ineffective, inconvenient and offensive intrusions. No further bureaucratic meddling in their private affairs can be tolerated.
Any Government committed to evidence-based policy should be focussed on removing red tape and unjust provisions from the NFA – not imposing further unjustified measures on the basis of nothing more than hysteria and emotion.
New Zealand offers an enviable model for firearms regulation, and is the foreign jurisdiction with the closest cultural and economic alignment to Australia. The New Zealand approach to focussing regulation on the individual owning firearms – not the inanimate objects – is demonstrably effective.
No massacres since the 1990s and an even lower homicide rate than Australia – yet widespread access to semi-automatic rifles and shotguns for hunting and competition shooting.
Specifically, the following changes should be made to the NFA:
• Removal of magazine limits and calibre restrictions on handguns for competition shooters – Australians who compete in major international competitions such as IPSC are at a competitive disadvantage. New Zealand has no such restrictions.
• Recognising Authorised Shooting Club membership as a “Genuine Need” for access to Category C and D firearms. New Zealand has a strong 3-Gun competition scene (the fastest-growing sports shooting discipline in the world – popular in NZ, Canada, Finland, Switzerland, Norway, USA, etc) where sporting shooters on approved ranges use modern sporting rifles such as the AR-15 platform, and semi-automatic shotguns under the same regulatory regime as handguns.
• Ending the ineffective and horrifically expensive experiment in the registration of individual firearms. No authority can point to a single crime that has been prevented, or solved, by spending hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars on a firearms registry.
I urge you in the strongest possible terms to reject any attempt to reclassify lever-action shotguns at this week’s COAG. Any further mistreatment of law-abiding firearm owners will bring electoral consequences. People who favour firearm regulation do not change their vote on this single issue (and 99% of them vote for the Greens anyway) – firearm owners do.
The recent Orange bi-election result which brought the first Shooter’s Party MP into the NSW Legislative Assembly, along with the re-election of Liberal Democrats Senator David Leyonhjelm (despite electoral changes specifically designed to get rid of him) stand as a warning to National and Liberal party Governments ready to throw their traditional constituents under the bus merely to appease those who were never going to vote for then anyway.
COAG stands as a character test for both you, and the Government that you represent. I hope that you will measure up."

[portph]

I think the anti-gun tards now filled with a sense of victory will probably move onto other lever actions and how they can restrict them.

No doubt.

[sandgroperbill]

Mentioned it in another thread, but would there be grounds to start a class action if they are recategorised?

[bigfellascott]

DON'T SEND EMAILS - they don't have to officially respond to those, you have to send a letter by snail mail, it's logged into their register of mail and they have to respond officially then, emails they don't give a f*** about so don't waste your time there.

And this whole Adler thing is just another red herring anyway, it's a bit of a test case of sorts to see how people react and then if things go as planned they will work on other levers, pumps etc.

[Jorge in Oz]

What a joke... It's moved well beyond stupid, now it's just pathetic what these whiny dipshits get up in arms about. Anyway, does anyone know about New Zealand immigration processes for Australian citizens?

Just need to buy a one way ticket and move. You are covered under their health benefits too and can get a shooters licence. Got a Kiwi mate here at work that gave me the lowdown. Have to convince the missus now.

[<<Genesis93>>]

My musings on the matter -

The time for letter or emails or phonecalls, has unfortunately passed.

By all means call your local members, your state PolMin, your 'Premiers' office....

But unfortunately, we have the situation, that is ACCEPTED only in the case of FIREARMS, it would appear, that the law makers take direct advice from the law enforcers on matters of gunlaws. This advice is convenient, as the police agree with the governments seeking more gun control,

However, we know, through about 2 years of rhetoric, fear mongering, blatant lies and fabrication, that the NFA WAS REVIEWED and a wishlist prepared WELL before this current crapfest.

The COAG was simply the puppet show the convince the sheeple that "the nation agrees, and will show solidarity in acting to make us all safer, so we can sleep at night in safety"

<<insert closed fist rapidly reciprocating in a vertical direction >>

The premiers have an agenda, that of the LIBS / LABS......gun control. There is no doubt, just listen to every single speech, press statement, interview response etc... they want less guns. Never believe the LABS are any different at all to the Libs just because they were not in Government in 96 - the NFA was prepared during the LAB years (Keating IIRC)...

Remember, the Labs ARE SOCIALISTS and they are fundamentally AGAINST an armed populace.
The LIBS will follow the public sentiment that gets them back in office, if they create the fear, then the media portrays a public sentiment supporting gun control, at least saving us from the evil Adler, cause crims and terrorists all want 10year old shotguns... then they support it.

Also, consider the Liberal party of today, proclaiming to be a 'conservative' party, is in fact several mile measures more 'progressive' than the socialists of a century ago.... ie, more socialist than the socialist of the revolutionary times.

Also... a conservative party supporting same same marriage? supporting practically unlimited immigration? supporting 457visa theft of jobs? Illegal-offensive wars in foreign previously 'friendly lands? while alowing our defence force to degrade to the point where they could not possibly defend our land against ANY invasion force...?? Exporting our tax money to 'develop', house and feed needy in other countries WHILE our own people are just as needy and hungry? driving up a needless national debt of $462,890m (this weeks tally) simply to support the creditors with a mammoth income stream?


So...

These mongrels have met, probably several dozens of meeting, 50? 100 meetings?? at all levels from Federal cabinet down to discuss ways to stifle our legal sport and recreation;

Attorney Gen's dep,
Dept of InJustice
State Cabinets
State Premiers
COAG - Council of Aus Govt's
FIRB -Firearms industry reference group (ONLY stakeholder token group)
ACIC - Aus Crim. Intel commission
AIC - Aus Institute of criminology
LCCSC - LCCSC Law, Crime and Community Safety council
MCPEM -Ministerial Council for Police and Emergency Management - Police (replaced the infamous APMC - AustralASIAN Police Ministers Council)
FPWG - Firearms policy working group; From the 2005 'Senior Officers Group' meeting minutes; "....some of the inconsistencies / shortcomings with the current NFA categorisation include;.......*lever and bolt action shotguns are not specifically covered, creating a potential for high capacity firearms of this nature to be obtained by sports shooters." ->Thats 11 years of planning, for shotgun lever recat anyway...

ALL of these bodies / groups, have advised in one direction when it comes to firearms - MORE restrictions, now, come Friday, the COAG;

Malcolm Turnbull MP - Australian Government (Chair)
Mike Baird MP - New South Wales
Daniel Andrews MP - Victoria
Annastacia Palaszczuk - Queensland
Jay Weatherill MP - South Australia
Will Hodgman MP - Tasmania
Andrew Barr - Australian Capital Territory
Michael Gunner - Northern Territory
Mayor Troy Pickard - Australian Local Government Assoc.

Will do at least one thing on Friday - go through the motions and VOTE for a recategorisation of the Lever shotgun 5rd, and Lever shotgun 5+
What else will come out of it in relation to other firearms, lever centrefires, mag capacities in general...that is the only remaining question as far as I'm concerned, perhaps they'll leaver those matter to 'resolve' until the net meeting....

Sidenote;
EVEN the mayor of a small town gets a say, a vote in the Adler debate....A local council... the illegitimate arm of government!

HOWEVER

A recategorisation, at least in VIC, requires changes to the Firearms Act, in states where the Categories are part of a legislative instrument (regulations), ie. NOT requiring parliamentary approval, they will need impact assessments of some kind - so do not let the bureaucrats suggest there is NO impact with the change....

In VIC, where we have 2 SFFP mps, it will be very interesting when they dust off the new(like it hasnt been prepared!) Act...and noting the Commies DO NOT have the upper house, not even with the watermelons.... who will they 'convince'??...

Let the games begin...ah, continue, not that these are at all games...

[<<Genesis93>>]

So tick tock.... those parasitic entities are sitting down shortly to decide how to further cucumber (technical term) the most law abiding (by definition and necessity ) group of Australians....

I watch the inpromptu press conference in the gardens of Canberra earlier, premier after premier AGREED whole heartedly that the recat of Adler is necessary...

Then that... I'm at a loss to properly described her without filling lines of profanities, QLD red leader.... she state that they want NO CHANGES....then is questioned about the recat and says something along the lines of "absolutely we support that" ???? WTF

So, I'm predicting by Friday next week, GCA & GCA2(AMF) along with Newscorp will return to the BAN semi-auto handguns narrative...they left that one alone during the 'Adler project' which should culminate by 6pm tonight....

[brett1868]

Any news out of Canberra yet?

[juststarting]

5 - cat b
5+ cat d

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-0 ... fmredir=sm

https://mobile.twitter.com/davidlipson/ ... 2683496448