Thousands of gun owners' personal details released (VIC)

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Re: Thousands of gun owners' personal details released (VIC)

Post by <<Genesis93>> » 21 Jan 2017, 5:06 pm

I did not receive a letter;
I telephoned LRD who suggested I call DELWP, which I did.
Then the bloke named on Blades letter eventually called back and advised my details were NOT 'leaked'
This seems to have occurred before 13 Jan, when the letters were sent out....if you havent received a letter - you are probably not part of the security/privacy breach.
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Re: Thousands of gun owners' personal details released (VIC)

Post by Oldbloke » 21 Jan 2017, 6:00 pm

Should be a public apology. But that would further publicise the stuff up. I got a renewal, so expecting a letter when I get home.
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Re: Thousands of gun owners' personal details released (VIC)

Post by happyhunter » 21 Jan 2017, 6:40 pm

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Re: Thousands of gun owners' personal details released (VIC)

Post by bladeracer » 22 Jan 2017, 6:20 am

happyhunter wrote:I'll just say as a person who has some understanding of computer technology and the network, losing that data in the network is really, really bad. You can almost be sure copies of that data are now stored somewhere it should not..



I absolutely agree with you, this is no minor lapse by any measure.

It's the potential result to those of us affected by it that I think is being blown out of proportion - in my own opinion of course.
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Re: Thousands of gun owners' personal details released (VIC)

Post by doc » 22 Jan 2017, 7:40 am

bladeracer wrote:I specifically stated that criminals steal firearms if they find them rather than targeting them specifically - how does that "miss the big picture"?


The picture that you're missing is criminals who will go looking specifically for them if they have details on names and addresses.

Without these - yes - the risk is much smaller... it's if they find them as you state. But it's if the criminal has a list of information on where they are stored, that changes the picture. It creates opportunities where criminals that specifically target firearms.

You seem to be worried that by admitting this we give GCA ammunition against us so want to be in denial. Well - take away the registries, and I'd agree with you - but while we have a history of places been targeted after police inspections, books stolen from dealers and now this cluster with the emails I believe that this is something that needs to be rectified.

At the very least - dealer registration books should be changed to include make, model serial, and LFO's license number in them - nothing that directly leads to anyone being able to identify the address. (ie - eliminate name and address completely), but even then - this will not stop other mistakes such as what we've witnessed here.
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Re: Thousands of gun owners' personal details released (VIC)

Post by bladeracer » 22 Jan 2017, 8:17 am

doc wrote:The picture that you're missing is criminals who will go looking specifically for them if they have details on names and addresses.

Without these - yes - the risk is much smaller... it's if they find them as you state. But it's if the criminal has a list of information on where they are stored, that changes the picture. It creates opportunities where criminals that specifically target firearms.

You seem to be worried that by admitting this we give GCA ammunition against us so want to be in denial. Well - take away the registries, and I'd agree with you - but while we have a history of places been targeted after police inspections, books stolen from dealers and now this cluster with the emails I believe that this is something that needs to be rectified.

At the very least - dealer registration books should be changed to include make, model serial, and LFO's license number in them - nothing that directly leads to anyone being able to identify the address. (ie - eliminate name and address completely), but even then - this will not stop other mistakes such as what we've witnessed here.


I haven't missed it at all, I just don't agree with you that enough criminals target A/B class firearms to consider myself at any greater risk.
Not at all. I'm not in denial of a problem that does not exist. Do you have any evidence that criminals deliberately target firearms to any significant degree?
The occasional instances we know about are insignificant.
We know that 3000-odd firearms are stolen every year. We know that the very vast majority are stolen during burglaries simply because they are found easily accessible. I think we can also safely assume that the majority of these firearms are .22's and break-action shotguns, and very few of them are of any interest to criminals at all. I would think that _at most_ we are concerned about a few hundred firearms actually winding up in the hands of criminals that might have any interest at all in using them, at least enough interest to warrant the risk of firearms charges. But we also know that only a very tiny number of these stolen legally-owned firearms are ever recovered from criminals, even when not used criminally.
So even if we accept the view that thieves are specifically targeting our firearms, where are they ending up?
My view, from my own experience, is that they merely end up being owned by otherwise law-abiding people that either can't get a licence or refuse to be a part of the system - but never do any harm to anybody with these firearms. I also contend that such people do not pay huge amounts of money for such firearms, thus why would thieves choose to specifically target them?

I agree with you about firearm registration and records. The system is nothing but a rort to employ a bunch of Police officers and bureaucrats on the basis of public safety. Police are against us having firearms due to "workplace health and safety" concerns. How often do officers come up against legally-owned firearms that it could be considered a significant threat to their safety? The premise is ludicrous.

I have no problem with licencing firearms owners, but I can't see any value in going any further than that. All "public safety" requires is that unacceptable people don't have legal access to firearms. The rest of us should be allowed to choose whatever recreational sports and hobbies we're interested in without intervention from the government.

I would really like to see somebody do some analysis of firearms owners and trends in other offences within society. I reckon we can show that legally owning firearms is beneficial to society generally. For example, I recently read that people who had been involved in Boy Scouts and Girl Guides during their formative years tended to have significantly less mental illness risk in later life.
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Re: Thousands of gun owners' personal details released (VIC)

Post by doc » 22 Jan 2017, 8:27 am

Fair point. You're right... apart from information that has been acted on when criminals have had access to information I have no other information about them specifically targeting us.

I would imagine that criminals take the easiest road, which for the most part I suspect would be the black market, illegal imports, etc.

This would change when they have information directly available to them that lists certain firearms that are of interest to them (aka dealer's books etc). Like you - I'm not too worried about the average breakin - but if my details were released to unknowns my concerns would up significantly. (One of the reasons I don't publish my real name and address on this forum for instance ;) )
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Re: Thousands of gun owners' personal details released (VIC)

Post by Gwion » 23 Jan 2017, 11:45 am

While this is an appalling breech of private information; isn't it just lists of Game Licence Holders?

As such, many of those affected may not even own a firearm......?????

Just trying to understand it but it seems like it really is not a shopping list of who owns what and where........
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Re: Thousands of gun owners' personal details released (VIC)

Post by bladeracer » 23 Jan 2017, 2:39 pm

Gwion wrote:While this is an appalling breech of private information; isn't it just lists of Game Licence Holders?

As such, many of those affected may not even own a firearm......?????

Just trying to understand it but it seems like it really is not a shopping list of who owns what and where........



It lists our licence "category" apparently, so yes, it would indicate who has firearms of Cat A/B, C or D. And I expect it probably also lists H class if a shooter also owns handguns.
No, I do not believe it lists our firearms or calibers, although a deer licence would indicate at least one .243 or bigger.
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Re: Thousands of gun owners' personal details released (VIC)

Post by <<Genesis93>> » 23 Jan 2017, 3:10 pm

The game licence could be Stalking / hounds / birds / junior. .... etc
It would be safe to assume most, even hound cat would own firearms at the licensees address....
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Re: Thousands of gun owners' personal details released (VIC)

Post by happyhunter » 23 Jan 2017, 4:30 pm

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Re: Thousands of gun owners' personal details released (VIC)

Post by bladeracer » 23 Jan 2017, 4:50 pm

happyhunter wrote:Any firearm has value in the criminal world. If you believe .22 and break shotguns have no value I can understand that belief but that is because you may be isolated from the reality of what happens to a stolen firearm.

It's true that the majority of stolen guns are rarely found to be used in a crime. There are reasons for that, the main being most crimes go unsolved and the guns are mostly used to stand over other criminals so the crime is never reported.



And you believe that the value of our .22's and shotties is so great as to make firearms owners specific targets for these criminals?
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Re: Thousands of gun owners' personal details released (VIC)

Post by bladeracer » 23 Jan 2017, 6:30 pm

happyhunter wrote:It's true that the majority of stolen guns are rarely found to be used in a crime. There are reasons for that, the main being most crimes go unsolved and the guns are mostly used to stand over other criminals so the crime is never reported.



They do recover guns from crimes, but rarely are they legally-owned or stolen from legal owners.
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Re: Thousands of gun owners' personal details released (VIC)

Post by happyhunter » 24 Jan 2017, 6:02 am

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Re: Thousands of gun owners' personal details released (VIC)

Post by bladeracer » 24 Jan 2017, 6:47 am

happyhunter wrote:Absolutely. You have to be living under a rock to think otherwise.



But it is just your belief, right?
You have no actual evidence to support it.
Maybe I'm just living under a different rock than you?
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Re: Thousands of gun owners' personal details released (VIC)

Post by Gwion » 24 Jan 2017, 7:48 am

I live under a rock....

I like it under my rock.
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Re: Thousands of gun owners' personal details released (VIC)

Post by happyhunter » 24 Jan 2017, 9:01 am

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Re: Thousands of gun owners' personal details released (VIC)

Post by bladeracer » 24 Jan 2017, 9:30 am

happyhunter wrote:You made a ridiculous statement about criminals not targeting gun owners. Your O.C.D is really showing.



And you made an equally ridiculous statement, but at least I provided some evidence for my view.
I have the opposite of OCD if anything :-)
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Re: Thousands of gun owners' personal details released (VIC)

Post by Gwion » 24 Jan 2017, 11:29 am

bladeracer wrote:I have the opposite of OCD if anything :-)


I think the opposite of OCD is CBF.....
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Re: Thousands of gun owners' personal details released (VIC)

Post by bladeracer » 24 Jan 2017, 11:30 am

Gwion wrote:
bladeracer wrote:I have the opposite of OCD if anything :-)


I think the opposite of OCD is CBF.....



Yep, that's me to a tee :-)
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