New Firearm Alliance for NFA

News and events in the media and political arena relating to firearms.

Re: New Firearm Alliance for NFA

Post by duncan61 » 30 Mar 2017, 7:12 pm

Other points that will be negotiated are allowing farmers and crocodile catchers etc to regain cat h for there employment.If you need it you can have it
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Re: New Firearm Alliance for NFA

Post by BluEsky » 30 Mar 2017, 7:17 pm

<<Genesis93>> wrote:Note: SSAA 'NATIONAL'..... is not a signatory.... Dont you think the CFCV would have preferred to have the NATIONAL sign off???

I've said it before, and I do LOVE the SSAA.... without them toilet time would be quicker and boring without the reading material...... BUTTTTT... it is IN THEIR INTEREST TO MAINTAIN the STATUS QUO.....and to NOT rock the boat...... what 'they' have is LEGISLATED club membership..... it kind of works for them....

WHY would they want, say, a ROLLBACK of the NFA...?????


:o :shock: You should know better than to try this sort of thing on! :shock: you know that you ;) ............

8-) :D ..
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Re: New Firearm Alliance for NFA

Post by <<Genesis93>> » 30 Mar 2017, 9:03 pm

duncan61 wrote:Just called our SSAA man and consultations are taking place in May with regards to the NFA here in W.A.It seems the states are all negotiating their own deals its not National.The biggest deal is that there is a move to have all handguns like Olympic target style and outlaw 6 guns and automatics.It aint going to happen so stop panicking.How the hell will they collect all the privately owned handguns and who can afford to compensate all the owners.All the other issues will be addressed at the same time.Be greatful for the SSAA they dont have to look after you so be happy they are


Who are the states negotiating with??? I'm unsure really.... given the Federal Gov has zero jurisdiction... they simply organised really, 'booked the room' for the talks so to speak.... and of course had their own internal advice re the new tech nonsense...

But back in 96 the NFA was 'generally' legislated across Aus, there's no reason why the state can't use the new NFA as a 'guide' again... The 96 NFA is held up as Jonnie gun law.... its nothing of the sort, infact it was neither JWH's (it was drafted YEARS before 96) not is it/was it ever LAW....until it was generally legislated in the individual states.........
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Re: New Firearm Alliance for NFA

Post by duncan61 » 30 Mar 2017, 10:51 pm

The sit down is with our WAPOL and SSAA the NFA was drafted now its time to go into detail.It is all being handled behind closed doors which I agree is wise as there is to much emotion from the public and lack of facts.
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Re: New Firearm Alliance for NFA

Post by juststarting » 30 Mar 2017, 11:51 pm

Gamerancher & BluEsky let the games begin! You see, I had a blog post saved up just for this, in my drafts, but I just couldn’t bring myself to posting it – for better or worse or something. But, I know what I am dealing with, you guys, you seem oblivious or just broken over time.

And you make that statement with absolute authority on the matter do you?


Yes, I make this statement with absolute authority. And here’s why…

First, BluEsky said something about list of accomplishments… I would say, like for like, my list of accomplishments in my related field of work, with far less support and budget, far exceeds those of SSAA. But I suspect that this is not what you meant, so remember, I am a paying customer SSAA customer. Until it expires, then, I am done. For the time being however, write it off to optimism, but never the less I am paying customer. It means that I am the hand that feeds and they are the ones doing the biting. We need to be very clear on this. Alright? SSAA is not entitled to anything and I am not going to be doing their job for them. I will advocate for all shooting disciplines, even the ones I don’t like, but this is not my job – I pay SSAA to do this. Is it clear? Fee for service, right? So, saying, well, what have you done? I supported SSAA – that’s what I’ve done, what have they done?

I am not looking at local branches, a lot of those people are fantastic. Strong, lovely, passionate people, I like people like that. But, I am talking about the organisation, the entity. And as an organisation that should be lobbying for its members - it is talentless, cowardly, disorganised and out of touch. It lacks strategy and direction.

Let’s come back to this quote though:

And you make that statement with absolute authority on the matter do you?


Yes, I make this statement with absolute authority. And here’s why…

First I’d like you to take a look the Board. Literlaly, take a look:
Image

Notice something? The demographic is completely wrong. They are well past their use by date. Out of touch due to lack of influence form younger shooters that they keep out. Out of touch because they don’t understand technology. Out of touch because they still live in 1996.

First, understanding the demographic. There are two types of shooters: (a) the born into it, like I am sure most of you are. Passed on from parents to you; and (b) the likes of me, who just love shooting. I went out, I bought a rifle and I started shooting, much later than most of you I would guess. And here’s the kicker, the likes of me, who just like shooting will have the cash and the time to do it. These is the type of people SSAA should be actively attracting. Farmers and bushies if you will, they will come regardless, but to really drive change they need people from big cities to advocate the sport. They need people with money to not only advocate the sport, but to invest into it. They need people with strong interpersonal, communication and technology skills not only to advocate, but to scale their voice broadly across communities that are not in the bush, that are in populated centres, that are driving the public sentiment.

SSAA does nothing to attract people like that. In fact, they actively drive them away.

Example, take a look at these two videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82x8pJ73mpM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEa6f8QOSPU&t=270s

I am sorry, I am going to sound really cruel here, but honestly, I don’t give a flying f*** about some random ugly awkward family; and some porn-star moustache farmer talking about cows. Seriously guys, this is not what going to get you out there – most people don’t care about cows. Even the fact I am talking about a retarded family and a cow should tell you that the videos failed miserably, but they are too blind to see, so they release another one. Which by the way is just a different cut of the first one. Well, I kind of do care about cows, but I really don’t because to me guns are fun, they are toys – they are not tools and I can’t relate, because I don’t leave that lifestyle. And guess what? There are more people like me than them, so why not target it to the broader audience? Lack of foresight and strategy. Making videos like that only tells young people who want to pick the sport and who can afford to do so, that it’s not for them, it’s for rural people with cows. And old hairy men.

This is the out of touch situation I am talking about. Since I started shooting, two of my friends followed. Third one is on the way and the 4th needs a little more nurturing… Not to mention one person who doubled his fun collection after seeing mine… People from cities and large populated centres; people who can afford to go into the shop and buy a few rifles at a time; people who will go back to the office with a huge smile on their face telling everyone how much fun it is at the range and encouraging more people in to it.

This is out of touch I am talking about. Those videos do more harm than good. They are not a farming party, which those videos are biased to by the way, they must go beyond preaching to the converted (which those videos are obviously designed to do), they must recruit new people… They don’t.

Alright, I think I did the out of touch enough. With pictures and examples, mind you. I am still waiting on what SSAA did for me though? Anyone? Hello?

Shall we move on? I think we should…

Incompetence. As someone who knows a little bit about all things online, you’d think that the last player to the market would take all the good things from all current players and merge them into one awesome thing, right? I would, but I am smart like that.

I give you the https://ssaagunsales.com disaster. I love buying guns. I love guns. I love shooting guns, I love rubbing my guns with oil after I shoot them. I like old guns and unique guns and I am like a f****ng blood hound when I am after something. And with all this in mind, I struggle to navigate that piece of digital crap. Not enough? Farmer Assist website – 5 jobs across the entire country, as of 30 March 2017. This is where the incompetence really shines. Not only they try to charm the farmers and by doing so alienate all the new comers that actually matters, the farmers want nothing to do with them, I bet most of them don’t even know what SSAA is – maybe something to do with syphilis support assistance? They backed the wrong horse, which also demonstrates lack of strategy and planning.

So here we are, incompetence.

Of course, I could go on, I could say that since 1996 it has gotten harder and harder to get into the sports. It has… Nobody can debate that. Anyway, SSAA sole purpose is to drive the agenda and better the rights of the shooters, have they done anything? No. But I think this bit has been covered to death anyway.

Let’s take stock, we have an association that should advocate for all shooters. This is done by numbers, more shooters – more votes – more rights. One shooter has an ear of at least 4 or 5 people. See where I am going with this? It’s almost exponential if done right. But we are not getting more shooters from the right demographic, because we have a bunch of old fellas who are so out of touch that they create their own generation gap. Not to mention complete lack of understanding of technologically, something that the antis have mastered! Our PR machine is broken. It’s unheard of that in this day and age, with all news distribution channels and social media, rather than saying how awesome we are – the entire Board lubricates each other and then bends over and presents itself at first sign of trouble.

Pathetic.

All aboard the train, choo, choo – next stop, the Talentless Coward town.

Why did I say talentless and cowardly? I think I am going to spend the most time on this one.

I keep hearing the common mantra - we are working behind the scenes.

That’s a lie. Cowards lie. A**eholes lie. Cowardly a**holes lie to people that support them. Enter the SSAA!

If anyone wants to prove me wrong, I approach this with an open mind and I am willing to listen. I am opened to be convinced. Please, provide three major achievements of SSAA that they have done ‘behind the scenes’ to better shooters' rights. And since I am a paying customer, I think I am entitled to know.

This absolute lack of transparency is what makes SSAA that much worse. Secrecy and for what? What does that achieved? Because I can name at least ten things of what was lost.
Or is it that they simply don’t care for their members (you know, biting the hand that feeds them), because most renew in auto-pilot mode? Or because they know that they are irrelevant in a greate scheme of things, but everyone is just too blind to see?

With that in mind, I would like to discuss the absolute disgrace and humiliation that was the SSAA response to AMA anti-gun agenda some time ago. I can dissect a lot of things, but I picked this one because it’s the most recent and fresh.

Why wasn’t the AMA statement taken apart and fully discredited? Considering that the publication is factually incorrect and blatantly cherry picks data to make the case, I could do it in minutes, why couldn’t the president of SSAA! PRESIDENT.

Why were the LDP the first to respond to AMA fallacies, when it should be the ‘firearms experts’ and the defacto face of Australian shooters - SSAA?

You digging me now, Gamerancher & BluEsky? Do you really understand what’s happening here?

Incompetence, lack of policies, lack of direction and strategy, failure to react and manage an incident. For an organisation with their budget, this should have been a canned response from a PR expert in less than two hours! They were, from memory, at least a week late! Nothing on YouTube, Facebook, blog, Twitter. You know who else responded? Everyone. Seriously, everyone, but not the SSAA, because they are cowards and incompetent and a complete disgrace to their members.

Don’t worry, talent or the lack of is coming next…

Enter Geoff Jones, National President of Incompetence & Associates.

And here lies the major issue, organisations (any, NFP, for profit, clubs, really, any) are run top down, culture is disseminated top down. Processes, policies, strategy (if they had one); all of these are fed from the top to the bottom.

So, here’s Geoff Jones, the president, a person who should be the face and the leader of the organisation, the defacto face of Australian shooters – on national television – s**ting the bed! This is what we in professional services and consulting call it, when the new guy s*its himself in front of a client.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-01-04/r ... ma/8160588 


Geoff Jones, the SSAA's national president, said while he was not actively lobbying against a national register, he thought the current state-based system was working.
"I'm at something of a bit of a loss to understand why this sudden call is out there," he said.
"Maybe there's a total lack of understanding of the situation."
Mr Jones said they did not necessarily believe a registration of firearms would have any significant beneficial effect on public safety or community benefit.
"We're not necessarily vehemently against it, but we think that any funds put towards this could be far better directed towards illegal firearms and illegal firearms use in Australia," he said.


I thought to myself - Geoff, you should have kept your mouth shut, you uninformed hack. As I read it, my eye twitched. If he is the best we have to provide a rebuttal, well, we can kiss our toys goodbye.

Let me translate his statement, the way most people in my demographic (we’ve covered demographics above) understand it.

“The Sporting Shooters' Association of Australia (SSAA) said the AMA's proposal was unnecessary.”

Rather than providing an opaque non-descriptive statement, perhaps articulate your thoughts, you goofy retard, explain why it’s not necessary. Where is the freaking explanation? You know why, I know why, majority of non-shooting public doesn’t and guess who the audience are? Yep - the emotional public. Complete lack of talent or just plain old media training or balls to speak well and convincingly off the cuff. Or all of the above? I suspect – all.

“Geoff Jones, the SSAA's national president, said while he was not actively lobbying against a national register, he thought the current state-based system was working.”

This is beginning to sound like an amateur hour at some gender studies class. “He thought that state-based system was working”? He must be special kind of stupid, ye? It hasn’t worked in any country around the world! It’s been abolished in Canada! In the age of Internet and huge data breaches, wake up, Geoff! Here, now, he has a platform to say this, to turn the conversation from emotional negative – to – emotional positive, even inspiring. And what does he do? He sh*ts himself and asks for a f*cking nappy change (by saying that he thinks the system is working). Storing shooters personal details, guns they have and addresses centrally on government systems, maintained by departments with no funding is ‘working’? No Geoff, it’s not working and it’s a huge safety risk to the public. That’s what should have been said!

“I’m at something of a bit of a loss to understand why this sudden call is out there," he said.

So there he is, Geoff, standing there, giving a public statement to national media telling them that he is confused? Ye mate, you certainly are. As kids would say these days – FMD and GTFO!

Why is this guy not fired yet! Someone, for the love of god, please! He needs a special school bus, not a camera. Nobody cares why AMA went there? Seriously. This again presented a fantastic opportunity to flip the argument around, to discredit the article and AMA! You are the president Geoff - play the game! Perhaps mention that you think this was called out because Australian doctors have slammed AMA about their recent views on voluntary euthanasia and AMA is deflecting. Or fake doctors or malpractice or… A million things if he read the bloody news and stayed in touch. They are moving attention away from it to our favourite scapegoats - Australian law abiding licenced shooters (who pass the same character tests as law enforcement). Say that you are basing your opinion on the fact that the article seems rushed, factually incorrect and cherry picks data to artificially make the case. Say, how can AMA be taken seriously when their own members are at odds with them and their dated views? But you would have to be prepared… Something SSAA is not known for (we covered this too, disorganised).

”Maybe there's a total lack of understanding of the situation."

Ya think?! Again, “maybe”! Maybe tells people around Australia, as they read your delusional drool that you don’t understand the issue, not them, you! It is your job to articulate ideas and drive public opinion! Saying “maybe” is like saying, I just shat the bed, could someone please come and change me, I am cold and confused.

Mr Jones said they did not necessarily believe a registration of firearms would have any significant beneficial effect on public safety or community benefit.

Again, golden opportunity to flip it on its head and actually explain to the public why it’s a horrible idea. Not licensing, not background and character checks - but actual registration. Explain the difference and explain why. Educate! Explain how much money is wasted on a registry and explain that they have never prevented or solved a crime (and there’s data to prove that – or the lack of data rather). Explain that these millions of dollars are wasted and could be going to our infrastructure, hospitals, think of the kids Geoff!

”We're not necessarily vehemently against it, but we think that any funds put towards this could be far better directed towards illegal firearms and illegal firearms use in Australia," he said.

Alright, he’s definitely retarded. I am convinced now. “We're not necessarily vehemently against” - yes mate, we are! Again, what a pile of garbage! Who is he representing? How about actually coming prepared and armed with facts. How about responding with real data. Perhaps saying exactly how many people died from gun suicides (less than a handful)? How about saying that millions spent on registry annually (provide a number!) should be invested into police force to fight gun crime. How about comparing gun suicides to prescription medicine that AMA advocates, just for s**ts and giggles? How about suggesting that we should ban motor vehicles or high bridges or alcohol? Put things into perspective, but instead his babble sounded hollow, completely unprepared, uninformed and as if it caught Geoff by surprise!

So you, Gamerancher & BluEsky…

And you make that statement with absolute authority on the matter do you?


…I do say this with absolute authority.
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Re: New Firearm Alliance for NFA

Post by duncan61 » 31 Mar 2017, 12:45 am

Come on JS tell us what you really think
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Re: New Firearm Alliance for NFA

Post by bladeracer » 31 Mar 2017, 4:21 am

duncan61 wrote:Be greatful for the SSAA they dont have to look after you so be happy they are



They don't?
That's the only thing I pay for them for, to represent me.
I get nothing else at all out of the organisation.
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Re: New Firearm Alliance for NFA

Post by bladeracer » 31 Mar 2017, 4:42 am

I think we just found the next SSAA President!
This needs to be put on a poster on the wall in the SSAA boardroom.
Brilliant JS.
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Re: New Firearm Alliance for NFA

Post by juststarting » 31 Mar 2017, 7:26 am

duncan61 wrote:Come on JS tell us what you really think


Did my post offend you? Do you need to go to your safe space for a little bit?
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Re: New Firearm Alliance for NFA

Post by on_one_wheel » 31 Mar 2017, 7:33 am

The Ssaa SA branch have come forward and publicly welcomed the changes to the nfa because "any changes that help to prevent firearms falling into the wrong hands is a good thing" :roll:
The last time I checked there was already a law to stop people from stealing things :unknown:

The only branch with any bollocks is the ssaa Sydney branch who have been busy meeting with politicians. I believe that yesterday it was senator Pauline Hanson. They have been extremely vocal about potential changes to the nfa and other issues that have been dreamed up lately.

It seems that all or at least most of the other ssaa branches are complete pushovers.

I joined the ssaa because they claimed to support shooters but they managed to remain silent over the level action debacle and other things like the appearance laws.
The 75 odd dollars per year is better spent buying gunpowder.

$75 x 180 000 members = $13 500 000 per year.
Youd think with money like that they'd buy themselves a set of balls and start acting like the nra and shamelessly slam the government at every given opportunity.
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Re: New Firearm Alliance for NFA

Post by Bent Arrow » 31 Mar 2017, 7:34 am

I think many of the points js raised are valid. It's entirely reasonable to expect much of the grunt work to be done behind the scenes, but there needs to be a socially competent and highly visble response from what should be our leading representative(s) whenever lies and blatantly misleading information is rolled out. Represention and insurance are the two main reasons why I am a member. Hopefully I will never need the insurance, but we need the representation on a daily basis.......
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Re: New Firearm Alliance for NFA

Post by juststarting » 31 Mar 2017, 7:39 am

duncan61 wrote:.Be greatful for the SSAA they dont have to look after you so be happy they are


No, no, no, Duncan61. That's the point. And you got it back to front. They do have to look after all paying members. This is their job. We pay money I for this. I am not donating to charity - I am paying for representation, this is why they get paid.

But they don't represent us.

Do you understand? It's not that we should be grateful, it's them who needs to be for the handouts.

It's the victim and nanny attitudes​ like yours that keeps this cycle going. Most likely unintentionally, but never the less.
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Re: New Firearm Alliance for NFA

Post by Bent Arrow » 31 Mar 2017, 7:45 am

on_one_wheel wrote:The Ssaa SA branch have come forward and publicly welcomed the changes to the nfa because "any changes that help to prevent firearms falling into the wrong hands is a good thing" .


Yeah see this pisses me off. On the one hand the allowance for cat A and B to be securely locked and attached to the building "could" be removed, keeping the higher end of the existing security options. However the proposed changes on this part of the legislation are too many steps too far, and will achieve nothing that the existing higher options won't do. How about some negotiation, you know, we'll give a little on this if you give a little there. Tighter storage for no wait time on second or subsequent firearms in any given category comes to mind as a viable option.

Reg 38. ( I ) A person (not being a dealer) who has possession of a class A or B firearm, must keep the firearm or receiver secured by-

(a) Securely attaching and locking it to part of the building in which it is kept; or

(b) Keeping it in a locked cabinet made of hardwood or steel that is securely attached to the building in which it is kept, or

(c) Keeping it in a locked safe made of steel that is securely attached to the building in which it is kept; or

(d) Keeping it in a locked steel and concrete strongroom; or

(e) Such other method as is approved by the Registrar.
Last edited by Bent Arrow on 31 Mar 2017, 7:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Firearm Alliance for NFA

Post by Gwion » 31 Mar 2017, 7:46 am

Speaking of preaching to the converted.

While I agree with everything you posted above, JustStarting; how about getting involved in some real sense rather than just spouting an entertaining diatribe for a bunch of self confessed firearms fanatics.

If you disagree with the way the system works, don't stand on the outside bitching like a12yo girl; stand up, get into it and change it from within.

Small, consistent efforts by a greater number of individuals working in chorus is how you effect change: not by whinging that everyone else is useless and you know best.
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Re: New Firearm Alliance for NFA

Post by Gamerancher » 31 Mar 2017, 7:46 am

So JS, you make an assumption of people based on a photograph and a dissected ABC media story and you reckon you have absolute authority on the subject?

"First I’d like you to take a look the Board. Literlaly, take a look:
Image

Notice something? The demographic is completely wrong. They are well past their use by date. Out of touch due to lack of influence form younger shooters that they keep out. Out of touch because they don’t understand technology. Out of touch because they still live in 1996. "


I personally know 5 of the people in that photograph, or at least I thought I did. They are heavily involved in getting new people, especially juniors, into shooting. They give a lot of time and energy, provide firearms, ammunition and tuition to new people every week.
But according to Mr "I've been shooting for 18 months and I know everything", apparently, I don't.
If the SSAA appalls you so much, don't be a member, don't use their range facilities, their insurance or any of the other things that that provide. Go join some other association, form a new one or go it alone, I don't give a rats arse, BUT, I will stick up for people who you don't know and criticize for "not doing anything" when you don't know s**t about them or what goes on out of the "media" spotlight.

What exactly is your demographic? Please let us all know exactly what is is that "they" haven't got a clue about.
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Re: New Firearm Alliance for NFA

Post by on_one_wheel » 31 Mar 2017, 7:50 am

What we need is sensible policy ....
JUST LIKE NEW ZEALAND
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Re: New Firearm Alliance for NFA

Post by juststarting » 31 Mar 2017, 7:50 am

Gwion wrote:Speaking of preaching to the converted.

While I agree with everything you posted above, JustStarting; how about getting involved in some real sense rather than just spouting an entertaining diatribe for a bunch of self confessed firearms fanatics.

If you disagree with the way the system works, don't stand on the outside bitching like a12yo girl; stand up, get into it and change it from within.

Small, consistent efforts by a greater number of individuals working in chorus is how you effect change: not by whinging that everyone else is useless and you know best.


Are you retarded? Did I not just say I pay SSAA for that. Granted that experiment has failed but that's what I was paying for mate.

Honestly though, what can any of us do, this is not a feel good story with a happy ending.

I vote, I donate. That's all that I can do that matters.
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Re: New Firearm Alliance for NFA

Post by juststarting » 31 Mar 2017, 7:58 am

Gamerancher, just because you personally know someone, doesn't mean they do a good job... And what is it that they do exactly, you keep saying time and effort and I keep asking for details. We are back to square one... Again, what have they done?! What juniors?! Those with parents who shoot? Do you realise the absurdity of this statement?

As for not being part of SSAA - way ahead of you, completely agree and once membership expires, I am done.

As for being new - that's a good thing, mate. I see things for what they are, not for what you've conditioned yourself to see.
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Re: New Firearm Alliance for NFA

Post by bladeracer » 31 Mar 2017, 7:58 am

Gamerancher wrote:So JS, you make an assumption of people based on a photograph and a dissected ABC media story and you reckon you have absolute authority on the subject?

"First I’d like you to take a look the Board. Literlaly, take a look:
Image

Notice something? The demographic is completely wrong. They are well past their use by date. Out of touch due to lack of influence form younger shooters that they keep out. Out of touch because they don’t understand technology. Out of touch because they still live in 1996. "


I personally know 5 of the people in that photograph, or at least I thought I did. They are heavily involved in getting new people, especially juniors, into shooting. They give a lot of time and energy, provide firearms, ammunition and tuition to new people every week.
But according to Mr "I've been shooting for 18 months and I know everything", apparently, I don't.
If the SSAA appalls you so much, don't be a member, don't use their range facilities, their insurance or any of the other things that that provide. Go join some other association, form a new one or go it alone, I don't give a rats arse, BUT, I will stick up for people who you don't know and criticize for "not doing anything" when you don't know s**t about them or what goes on out of the "media" spotlight.

What exactly is your demographic? Please let us all know exactly what is is that "they" haven't got a clue about.


It can't be denied that there are a lot of firearms owners who are unimpressed with SSAA representation, and have been for a long time. Any flak directed at them is a direct result of what members perceive, and since so little information actually comes out of SSAA, our perception is unlikely to be good. They need to read what their members are asking for, and they need to address it. You know these people. Direct them to this thread and let's see if they can enlighten us. If they give us actual information it shouldn't be very difficult at all to turn it around.
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Re: New Firearm Alliance for NFA

Post by Gwion » 31 Mar 2017, 7:58 am

And bitch in the corner.....
That's the retarded thing. You want to pay someone to represent you but don't want to get your hands dirty.

Reality is that a great number of SSAA members look at their membership as cheap public liability insurance whilst using firearms.
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Re: New Firearm Alliance for NFA

Post by Gwion » 31 Mar 2017, 8:04 am

People misunderstand what the SSAA is. It is not a lobbying organisation. It is not the Aus version of NRA. It is a bunch of people who have banded together to shoot and to encourage new people to shoot. They are not trained professionals, they are everyday people. Inasmuch the video posted is really quite representative of who they are.
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Re: New Firearm Alliance for NFA

Post by juststarting » 31 Mar 2017, 8:09 am

No, Gwion, you are wrong... This is from their About Us page:

The Sporting Shooters’ Association of Australia (SSAA) was established in 1948 in order to promote the shooting sports and protect firearm owners’ interests.

So yeah mate, it should be a lion. But in reality it's a pussy.
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Re: New Firearm Alliance for NFA

Post by TheDude » 31 Mar 2017, 8:12 am

Well do something about it JS, you're not a customer but a member. Get involved rather than sitting on the sideline bitching.
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Re: New Firearm Alliance for NFA

Post by Gwion » 31 Mar 2017, 8:18 am

juststarting wrote:No, Gwion, you are wrong... This is from their About Us page:

The Sporting Shooters’ Association of Australia (SSAA) was established in 1948 in order to promote the shooting sports and protect firearm owners’ interests.

So yeah mate, it should be a lion. But in reality it's a pussy.


No. You are wrong.

Because they are not acting according to Your interpretation of that statement does not mean they are not adhering to it. They provide liability and firearms insurance very reasonably. That is doing more than you think to protect firearms users' interests.

"It Should be"....
Well, get in there and make it such!
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Re: New Firearm Alliance for NFA

Post by Gwion » 31 Mar 2017, 8:22 am

Every one's an expert from the outside. Especially when they are actually to lazy to do anything about it themselves.
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Re: New Firearm Alliance for NFA

Post by bladeracer » 31 Mar 2017, 8:30 am

Gwion wrote:And bitch in the corner.....
That's the retarded thing. You want to pay someone to represent you but don't want to get your hands dirty.

Reality is that a great number of SSAA members look at their membership as cheap public liability insurance whilst using firearms.



Not everybody is able to "get their hands dirty", so they make a financial contribution to allow others to do the "dirty" work on their behalf.

I think the reality is that most members join SSAA for only one reason - genuine reason when applying for a licence. And SSAA seem to feel that is all they need to provide for that contribution. In Victoria we do not need any membership of any clubs as we have crown land to shoot on, although most Victorian shooters I've met seem unaware of this before applying for their licence.

From their homepage:
"About Us - The Sporting Shooters’ Association of Australia (SSAA) was established in 1948 in order to promote the shooting sports and protect firearm owners’ interests. Those roles remain the same today, and with more than 180,000 members and 400 clubs, the SSAA is the premier sports shooting body representing licensed owners in Australia."

Their representation of my interests, and promoting our sport to _non-shooters_ is all that I expect of them.
They have no facilities within a reasonable distance to me so I have no use of those.
The magazines and newsletters do not keep me informed on important issues that I might need their representation on, it's more advertising than information. Hopefully it brings in further funds to represent us and bring new shooters in, which is a good thing...if those funds go toward those efforts.
The insurance is obviously a big money earner for them, but my firearms are already included in my home contents insurance making it unlikely that I need SSAA insurance as well.

I think I'm being fair in asking SSAA to do nothing more in exchange for my fees than represent my interests and grow the sport as they state their aims are.
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Re: New Firearm Alliance for NFA

Post by bladeracer » 31 Mar 2017, 8:40 am

TheDude wrote:Well do something about it JS, you're not a customer but a member. Get involved rather than sitting on the sideline bitching.



This a cop out. Not everybody is able to get involved, that does not automatically invalidate their criticism. Criticism is probably even more useful than praise, as it highlights problems and provides focus on finding better methods.
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Re: New Firearm Alliance for NFA

Post by Gwion » 31 Mar 2017, 8:45 am

My point, which I have made painfully obvious, is: all this about the SSAA is true, they need to move with the times and get heavy about making positive change for everyday shooters; but how can you expect them to represent your demographic when you won't even get involved in a hands on manner???
They represent their demographic. Stand up and be counted.
If you have hours to spend bagging them out online or drooling over useguns.com or talking random crap in a shooting forum, you have some time spare to get stuck in and make the change you're calling for.
But then, it's far more satisfying to trim someone else down than it is to put your own neck on the line.
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Re: New Firearm Alliance for NFA

Post by juststarting » 31 Mar 2017, 9:29 am

Gwion (and TheDude), my contribution is financial. I have a family, I have a full time job and generally a busy life. They are pretty low on a list of things that I can donate time to. So I simply can't afford it. I can afford to give them money though, and that's what I was doing. And based on their website I was contributing to them fighting for my rights. It's right there on their website! But I see you largely agree, so we are on the same page...

Maybe one day I will be able to afford to donate time, but not now. However, being a contributor non the less, I am entitled to know what that money is doing and provide criticism! Criticism is valuable, it provides perspective and direction, should they choose to take it. Yet, there's silence...

And to all SSAA people reading this, I am more than happy to help, as long as I can do it online on my own time. Feel free to PM me. I'd be more than happy to research, collaborate, write and respond. But I also expect efficiency, direction and clear strategy.
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Re: New Firearm Alliance for NFA

Post by Gwion » 31 Mar 2017, 10:15 am

Maybe a simple way to get involved is to write to them about your dissatisfaction and what you would like to see happen. Get some friends to co-sign it so it isn't passed off as one man's whinge. Add the detail that you are happy to help out with your professional skills to help better the representation of Australian civilian shooters.

It might have a bigger impact than you think and is more useful than just bitching about it online. Not saying you shouldn't voice your views, just that if they are that strong, you should follow through with some action, however small.

As above, it is many hands making small efforts that will effect change.
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