lead exposure in shooters

News and events in the media and political arena relating to firearms.

Re: lead exposure in shooters

Post by Oldbloke » 14 Jul 2020, 8:35 pm

SCJ429 wrote:I saw a couple of foxes last week that were suffering from lead poisoning. They did not inhale it, I believe the particle size was about 50 grains.


:lol: pay that one
The greatest invention in the history of man is beer.
https://youtu.be/2v3QrUvYj-Y
Member. SFFP, Shooters Union.
SSAA, the powerful gun lobby. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Hunt safe.
User avatar
Oldbloke
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 11192
Victoria

Re: lead exposure in shooters

Post by perentie » 15 Jul 2020, 6:03 am

Oldbloke wrote:.60 umol/L Is considered highish. At this point He should probably stop casting for a while. He needs the levels to come down. https://www.safeworkaustralia.gov.au/topic/lead

(Lead risk work is any work that will likely cause blood lead levels of a worker to exceed 20 µg/dL (0.97 µmol/L), or 5 µg/dL (0.24 µmol/L) for females of reproductive capacity.)

RISKS

lead is a toxic substance that can accumulate in the body over time
• lead can affect the nervous system, the kidneys, and can interfere with the body’s ability to make haemoglobin
• there are some reports which suggest that lead may adversely affect the reproductive systems of both males and females
• fetuses and infants are particularly susceptible to the effects of lead, therefore employees who are pregnant or breastfeeding may need to be excluded from working in a lead-risk job if their blood lead levels exceed prescribed limits; lead-risk jobs are jobs that may expose employees to high levels of lead

HOW DOES IT GET IN THE BODY?
Via the mouth when eating.smoking or handling materials
Via the lungs when in close proximity to very fine dust or vapours.

PREVENTION
Gloves
Washing hands and clothing (Practice good hygiene)
Good ventilation
Never eat or smoke when working with lead containing materials.(washing hands first)
Wearing a P3 respirator/mask when sweeping and casting is recommended

The above assumes you do a lot of casting.

Gloves, hygiene and good ventilation are the main ones.


Thanks. Good info here. I sent him the links to read up on.
Apart from the fan to blow away the fumes he does not use other protection.like mask or gloves but does wash hands before eating etc. Non smoker.
Lead pot is at about 800 degrees I believe.He handles the bullets with his bare hands(as I do as well) for sorting and weighing etc but we both thought washing was enough. He might have to lift his game a bit.
How many casters on here get their Blood lead levels checked?
What are other typical levels?
perentie
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 240
Queensland

Re: lead exposure in shooters

Post by Oldbloke » 15 Jul 2020, 8:23 am

How much casting does he do?

Perentie, PM sent
The greatest invention in the history of man is beer.
https://youtu.be/2v3QrUvYj-Y
Member. SFFP, Shooters Union.
SSAA, the powerful gun lobby. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Hunt safe.
User avatar
Oldbloke
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 11192
Victoria

Re: lead exposure in shooters

Post by bladeracer » 15 Jul 2020, 9:06 am

I tend to cast hundreds of different bullets in one session rather than be casting all the time. But for testing bullets, I'll often throw a couple dozen bullets just using the ladle and gas torch. So even if I did get the lead gassing off and get a bad dose, it would likely be months before I'd be doing another session anyway.

Is he actually unwell due to his lead levels?


perentie wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:.60 umol/L Is considered highish. At this point He should probably stop casting for a while. He needs the levels to come down. https://www.safeworkaustralia.gov.au/topic/lead

(Lead risk work is any work that will likely cause blood lead levels of a worker to exceed 20 µg/dL (0.97 µmol/L), or 5 µg/dL (0.24 µmol/L) for females of reproductive capacity.)

RISKS

lead is a toxic substance that can accumulate in the body over time
• lead can affect the nervous system, the kidneys, and can interfere with the body’s ability to make haemoglobin
• there are some reports which suggest that lead may adversely affect the reproductive systems of both males and females
• fetuses and infants are particularly susceptible to the effects of lead, therefore employees who are pregnant or breastfeeding may need to be excluded from working in a lead-risk job if their blood lead levels exceed prescribed limits; lead-risk jobs are jobs that may expose employees to high levels of lead

HOW DOES IT GET IN THE BODY?
Via the mouth when eating.smoking or handling materials
Via the lungs when in close proximity to very fine dust or vapours.

PREVENTION
Gloves
Washing hands and clothing (Practice good hygiene)
Good ventilation
Never eat or smoke when working with lead containing materials.(washing hands first)
Wearing a P3 respirator/mask when sweeping and casting is recommended

The above assumes you do a lot of casting.

Gloves, hygiene and good ventilation are the main ones.


Thanks. Good info here. I sent him the links to read up on.
Apart from the fan to blow away the fumes he does not use other protection.like mask or gloves but does wash hands before eating etc. Non smoker.
Lead pot is at about 800 degrees I believe.He handles the bullets with his bare hands(as I do as well) for sorting and weighing etc but we both thought washing was enough. He might have to lift his game a bit.
How many casters on here get their Blood lead levels checked?
What are other typical levels?
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: lead exposure in shooters

Post by perentie » 16 Jul 2020, 8:15 am

Oldbloke wrote:How much casting does he do?

Perentie, PM sent


Thats it. He said not much , perhaps a hundred at a time in a couple of months.
He does not feel crook, just got the blood tests done on spec to see whats happening as he read about it.
Might be better if we dont know rather than worry about it ;)
perentie
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 240
Queensland

Re: lead exposure in shooters

Post by TassieTiger » 16 Jul 2020, 8:54 am

An old friend who has passed away used to tell me his lips would tingle and go a shade of blue - so he’d then take a break from casting...Well before the seriousness was known.
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
TassieTiger
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3704
Tasmania

Re: lead exposure in shooters

Post by Grandadbushy » 16 Jul 2020, 9:40 am

I watched a program on tv a few years back and it was about the romans , there was text found in an old city about the madness sickness that many were getting, since then tests were done on bones found in that city and many others and what was found was that those people were carrying the highest amount of lead in their system known to man, it was known at the time if enough lead entered your body it can send you mad from the effects. Then studies were done on the towns and it was found that waterlines were actually made of lead and so were drinking utensils, jugs, roof drains to catch water and some other containers, it would have been enough to cause severe lead poisoning to the people
Grandadbushy
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 392
Queensland

Re: lead exposure in shooters

Post by Oldbloke » 16 Jul 2020, 10:34 am

Grandadbushy wrote:I watched a program on tv a few years back and it was about the romans , there was text found in an old city about the madness sickness that many were getting, since then tests were done on bones found in that city and many others and what was found was that those people were carrying the highest amount of lead in their system known to man, it was known at the time if enough lead entered your body it can send you mad from the effects. Then studies were done on the towns and it was found that waterlines were actually made of lead and so were drinking utensils, jugs, roof drains to catch water and some other containers, it would have been enough to cause severe lead poisoning to the people


GDB, that's been well known for some years.

What is less well known is the Egyptians used asbestos for clothing and many other uses. They knew back then that the asbestos miners were dying of lung diseases.

Funny how James Hardy and a few other companies didnt know that! Yeh, funny that! :sarcasm:
The greatest invention in the history of man is beer.
https://youtu.be/2v3QrUvYj-Y
Member. SFFP, Shooters Union.
SSAA, the powerful gun lobby. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Hunt safe.
User avatar
Oldbloke
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 11192
Victoria

Re: lead exposure in shooters

Post by Grandadbushy » 16 Jul 2020, 6:41 pm

Yeah OB it's amazing how we never learn from our mistakes , that asbestos one is a new one to me, but as far as those companies not knowing ,well i think they did but it got in the way of making money so it was carry on as usual at the expense of people, the sad thing is the people who paid with their health and their lives something that can never be given back to them
Grandadbushy
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 392
Queensland

Re: lead exposure in shooters

Post by Oldbloke » 16 Jul 2020, 6:57 pm

Grandadbushy wrote:Yeah OB it's amazing how we never learn from our mistakes , that asbestos one is a new one to me, but as far as those companies not knowing ,well i think they did but it got in the way of making money so it was carry on as usual at the expense of people, the sad thing is the people who paid with their health and their lives something that can never be given back to them


Correct

But the General M.anager and Managing Director are enjoying the world cruise, private jets and mega yacht.
The greatest invention in the history of man is beer.
https://youtu.be/2v3QrUvYj-Y
Member. SFFP, Shooters Union.
SSAA, the powerful gun lobby. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Hunt safe.
User avatar
Oldbloke
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 11192
Victoria

Re: lead exposure in shooters

Post by Oldbloke » 25 Jul 2020, 10:09 am

Perentie, what happened here?
The greatest invention in the history of man is beer.
https://youtu.be/2v3QrUvYj-Y
Member. SFFP, Shooters Union.
SSAA, the powerful gun lobby. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Hunt safe.
User avatar
Oldbloke
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 11192
Victoria

Re: lead exposure in shooters

Post by targetshooter900 » 25 Jul 2020, 10:38 am

Blr243 wrote:I have heard that painters sanding old lead based paint develop flu like symptoms when they get too much exposure to it


Same for plumbers/roofers dealing with lead flashings and other lead products used in construction
targetshooter900
Private
Private
 
Posts: 51
New South Wales

Re: lead exposure in shooters

Post by perentie » 26 Jul 2020, 8:59 am

Oldbloke wrote:Perentie, what happened here?


He said he will knock off casting for a bit. And drink more milk :D
perentie
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 240
Queensland

Re: lead exposure in shooters

Post by Oldbloke » 26 Jul 2020, 10:21 am

perentie wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:Perentie, what happened here?


He said he will knock off casting for a bit. And drink more milk :D


Good short term. But doesn't proactively fix the cause.
The greatest invention in the history of man is beer.
https://youtu.be/2v3QrUvYj-Y
Member. SFFP, Shooters Union.
SSAA, the powerful gun lobby. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Hunt safe.
User avatar
Oldbloke
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 11192
Victoria

Re: lead exposure in shooters

Post by mickb » 06 Aug 2020, 12:49 am

Oldbloke wrote:Corobeeboy,

Some primers in the past have contained small amounts of Lead Azide or Lead styphnate and mercury fulminate. Mercury being more hazardous than lead. But most are now lead free.


Are you sure about that? My undertanding is lead in primers was still pretty standard and 'lead free primers' were a more specialised product. Just checked Federals website:

"Accuracy Starts at Ignition. They call it B-lead styphnate, but in plain English, it's the fuel our primers use to achieve their world-renowned quality. All Premium loads feature the finest primers, which are subjected to more frequent inspections for dimensional tolerances and charge weight to ensure they deliver consistent ignition for every shot. We also load select products with our exclusive Catalyst primer. Its lead-free technology provides the most reliable, consistent ignition possible"


Talking to the cowboy shooters in the US .Some of these guys struggle with their lead levels and they say primers are part of the problem but also comes down to the very high volumes they fire a month.
mickb
Warrant Officer C2
Warrant Officer C2
 
Posts: 1095
Other

Re: lead exposure in shooters

Post by Oldbloke » 06 Aug 2020, 1:04 am

Oldbloke wrote:Could be. You would need to check. Like anything we consume. But risk is still not high unless you shoot indoors.


Mickb.
My statement was questioned back then.

Each company would use its own recipe. As you have discovered some obviously still contain lead. They would contribute, but I would think most comes from the lead bullets used. May be wrong. But lots of shooting indoors must be higher risk that less outdoors.
The greatest invention in the history of man is beer.
https://youtu.be/2v3QrUvYj-Y
Member. SFFP, Shooters Union.
SSAA, the powerful gun lobby. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Hunt safe.
User avatar
Oldbloke
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 11192
Victoria

Re: lead exposure in shooters

Post by mickb » 06 Aug 2020, 4:08 pm

I think its more like most primers have lead, than some. You can select a non lead option yep, but they will advertise it as such.

Couple of threads worth looking at from the cowboy forums regards their lead levels.

https://forums.sassnet.com/index.php?/t ... nt-3941265
https://forums.sassnet.com/index.php?/t ... ead-level/
mickb
Warrant Officer C2
Warrant Officer C2
 
Posts: 1095
Other

Re: lead exposure in shooters

Post by Oldbloke » 06 Aug 2020, 5:12 pm

Seems Im being corrected.. Mmm I was under the impression companies started phasing it out a fair few years ago.

I think the main issues are indoor shooting (lead bullets) or casting with poor ventilation. And a lot of it.
The greatest invention in the history of man is beer.
https://youtu.be/2v3QrUvYj-Y
Member. SFFP, Shooters Union.
SSAA, the powerful gun lobby. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Hunt safe.
User avatar
Oldbloke
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 11192
Victoria

Re: lead exposure in shooters

Post by Oldbloke » 06 Aug 2020, 5:34 pm

Just had a look at the Sellier Bellot site. (I use their primers)
Can't be certain but looks like they also use lead azide but also have non-toxic option.
The greatest invention in the history of man is beer.
https://youtu.be/2v3QrUvYj-Y
Member. SFFP, Shooters Union.
SSAA, the powerful gun lobby. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Hunt safe.
User avatar
Oldbloke
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 11192
Victoria

Re: lead exposure in shooters

Post by mickb » 06 Aug 2020, 7:22 pm

Probably all contributes. Ive talked to cowboys shooting high volumes and at times they would cease casting, or not cast in the first place and use jacketed or polycoated bullets and lead levels would still climb. They decided the lead vapor from primers at point of firing was still contaminating things and this included not only the air breathed but residue on the brass and hands. They said good cleaning and personal hygiene with lead removing soaps, not touching the face, or eating while shooting etc had a positive effect too.. I dont know any of this personally by the way, I dont shoot enough to have a problem. Just what I have read.
mickb
Warrant Officer C2
Warrant Officer C2
 
Posts: 1095
Other

Re: lead exposure in shooters

Post by Oldbloke » 06 Aug 2020, 7:49 pm

Yes, it simply all accumulate and the body slowly removes it.
The greatest invention in the history of man is beer.
https://youtu.be/2v3QrUvYj-Y
Member. SFFP, Shooters Union.
SSAA, the powerful gun lobby. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Hunt safe.
User avatar
Oldbloke
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 11192
Victoria

Re: lead exposure in shooters

Post by wanneroo » 07 Aug 2020, 12:42 am

It takes about 40 years for lead to work it's way out of your body. High levels are not good.

Back years ago when I was a competitive smallbore rifle shooter we shot 5 days a week and we did have a ventilation fan turned on but we did stupid things like every summer clean out the traps of lead, picking up huge congealed chunks of it with no gloves or respirators.

These days as a reloader, I always wear nitrile gloves when handing everything and when I shoot I wipe my hands down with D Lead hand wipes and I pick brass up with nitrile gloves. I think a lot of that primer residue is a problem and that is also why I wet tumble.
wanneroo
Warrant Officer C1
Warrant Officer C1
 
Posts: 1412
United States of America

Re: lead exposure in shooters

Post by bladeracer » 07 Aug 2020, 1:47 am

wanneroo wrote:It takes about 40 years for lead to work it's way out of your body. High levels are not good.

Back years ago when I was a competitive smallbore rifle shooter we shot 5 days a week and we did have a ventilation fan turned on but we did stupid things like every summer clean out the traps of lead, picking up huge congealed chunks of it with no gloves or respirators.

These days as a reloader, I always wear nitrile gloves when handing everything and when I shoot I wipe my hands down with D Lead hand wipes and I pick brass up with nitrile gloves. I think a lot of that primer residue is a problem and that is also why I wet tumble.


Did you get crook from doing this?
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: lead exposure in shooters

Post by wanneroo » 07 Aug 2020, 7:18 am

bladeracer wrote:
wanneroo wrote:It takes about 40 years for lead to work it's way out of your body. High levels are not good.

Back years ago when I was a competitive smallbore rifle shooter we shot 5 days a week and we did have a ventilation fan turned on but we did stupid things like every summer clean out the traps of lead, picking up huge congealed chunks of it with no gloves or respirators.

These days as a reloader, I always wear nitrile gloves when handing everything and when I shoot I wipe my hands down with D Lead hand wipes and I pick brass up with nitrile gloves. I think a lot of that primer residue is a problem and that is also why I wet tumble.


Did you get crook from doing this?


About two years into it with indoor smallbore rifle, I felt off, lack of energy and focus and lead poisoning was suspected so I was checked at the military hospital with a blood test and as I recall I did have lead in my system but it was in the acceptable range, whatever that was.

At the time I was shooting on a team that was a frequent national championship team, we shot 2-3 hours a day, did probably two dozen matches a year, plus I was going to high school, had homework and worked 16 hours on the weekend, so I had no rest for years and that was probably the bigger issue. After we won the NRA national championship my senior year I had opportunities to continue competitively in college but ended up declining as I was burned out and I hardly did any shooting at all for the next 15 years.
wanneroo
Warrant Officer C1
Warrant Officer C1
 
Posts: 1412
United States of America

Re: lead exposure in shooters

Post by Oldbloke » 07 Aug 2020, 7:23 am

Wannaroo, that sounds like a lot of exposure. No wonder you had lead in your system.
The greatest invention in the history of man is beer.
https://youtu.be/2v3QrUvYj-Y
Member. SFFP, Shooters Union.
SSAA, the powerful gun lobby. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Hunt safe.
User avatar
Oldbloke
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 11192
Victoria

Previous

Back to top
 
Return to Firearms related media and politics