lead exposure in shooters

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Re: lead exposure in shooters

Post by coroboreeboy » 07 Apr 2017, 12:05 pm

Oldbloke:
Thanks for the info
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Re: lead exposure in shooters

Post by Oldbloke » 07 Apr 2017, 3:32 pm

Glad to help
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Re: lead exposure in shooters

Post by Jimbo047 » 08 Apr 2017, 6:57 am

Oldbloke wrote:Some primers in the past have contained small amounts of Lead Azide or Lead styphnate and mercury fulminate. Mercury being more hazardous than lead. But most are now lead free.

Pretty sure this isn't true. Most are MERCURY free but all the standard primer products (Federal, CCI etc) still contain lead. These brands do have lead-free product lines but they are not as widely distributed.
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Re: lead exposure in shooters

Post by Oldbloke » 08 Apr 2017, 8:07 am

Could be. You would need to check. Like anything we consume. But risk is still not high unless you shoot indoors.
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Re: lead exposure in shooters

Post by Oldbloke » 09 Apr 2017, 8:33 am

Further reading here for those interested.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning
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Re: lead exposure in shooters

Post by perentie » 14 Jul 2020, 11:58 am

Oldbloke wrote:Further reading here for those interested.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning


Old thread I know but to keep it all in one, I have a hypothetical question.
Say a mate of mine has just been tested. Results are .60 umol/L and 12.4 ug/dL Up from last year. Health Dept sent a letter asking why.
Now old mate shoots a Black Powder cartridge rifle and cast his bullets under the house with a fan blowing gently sideways to keep the fumes away. He has been casting less than last year but blood count is still higher.
He does not want to quit shooting and casting.
Any ideas on what is happening and why and what else he can do to reduce the count.?
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Re: lead exposure in shooters

Post by Oldbloke » 14 Jul 2020, 1:46 pm

perentie wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:Further reading here for those interested.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning


Old thread I know but to keep it all in one, I have a hypothetical question.
Say a mate of mine has just been tested. Results are .60 umol/L and 12.4 ug/dL Up from last year. Health Dept sent a letter asking why.
Now old mate shoots a Black Powder cartridge rifle and cast his bullets under the house with a fan blowing gently sideways to keep the fumes away. He has been casting less than last year but blood count is still higher.
He does not want to quit shooting and casting.
Any ideas on what is happening and why and what else he can do to reduce the count.?


Sounds like poor ventilation.
Any more info? Sketch of the room including openings and location of man and fan would help.
1 opening or 2?
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Re: lead exposure in shooters

Post by bladeracer » 14 Jul 2020, 1:58 pm

perentie wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:Further reading here for those interested.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning


Old thread I know but to keep it all in one, I have a hypothetical question.
Say a mate of mine has just been tested. Results are .60 umol/L and 12.4 ug/dL Up from last year. Health Dept sent a letter asking why.
Now old mate shoots a Black Powder cartridge rifle and cast his bullets under the house with a fan blowing gently sideways to keep the fumes away. He has been casting less than last year but blood count is still higher.
He does not want to quit shooting and casting.
Any ideas on what is happening and why and what else he can do to reduce the count.?


First guess would be that the area is already seriously contaminated with lead residue. Try casting somewhere else and don't go into that room for a couple months, then get tested again.
Does he keep the temperature under control so it doesn't get too hot?
Does handle the bullets without gloves?

Until he works out the source I would make sure no kids are around the area, lead exposure has serious consequences for young people.
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Re: lead exposure in shooters

Post by Oldbloke » 14 Jul 2020, 2:50 pm

.60 umol/L Is considered highish. At this point He should probably stop casting for a while. He needs the levels to come down. https://www.safeworkaustralia.gov.au/topic/lead

(Lead risk work is any work that will likely cause blood lead levels of a worker to exceed 20 µg/dL (0.97 µmol/L), or 5 µg/dL (0.24 µmol/L) for females of reproductive capacity.)

RISKS

lead is a toxic substance that can accumulate in the body over time
• lead can affect the nervous system, the kidneys, and can interfere with the body’s ability to make haemoglobin
• there are some reports which suggest that lead may adversely affect the reproductive systems of both males and females
• fetuses and infants are particularly susceptible to the effects of lead, therefore employees who are pregnant or breastfeeding may need to be excluded from working in a lead-risk job if their blood lead levels exceed prescribed limits; lead-risk jobs are jobs that may expose employees to high levels of lead

HOW DOES IT GET IN THE BODY?
Via the mouth when eating.smoking or handling materials
Via the lungs when in close proximity to very fine dust or vapours.

PREVENTION
Gloves
Washing hands and clothing (Practice good hygiene)
Good ventilation
Never eat or smoke when working with lead containing materials.(washing hands first)
Wearing a P3 respirator/mask when sweeping and casting is recommended

The above assumes you do a lot of casting.

Gloves, hygiene and good ventilation are the main ones.
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Re: lead exposure in shooters

Post by Blr243 » 14 Jul 2020, 6:08 pm

I have heard that painters sanding old lead based paint develop flu like symptoms when they get too much exposure to it
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Re: lead exposure in shooters

Post by Oldbloke » 14 Jul 2020, 6:38 pm

Blr243 wrote:I have heard that painters sanding old lead based paint develop flu like symptoms when they get too much exposure to it



They certainly had a significant exposure and at risk.
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Re: lead exposure in shooters

Post by SCJ429 » 14 Jul 2020, 7:01 pm

I saw a couple of foxes last week that were suffering from lead poisoning. They did not inhale it, I believe the particle size was about 50 grains.
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Re: lead exposure in shooters

Post by Oldbloke » 14 Jul 2020, 8:35 pm

SCJ429 wrote:I saw a couple of foxes last week that were suffering from lead poisoning. They did not inhale it, I believe the particle size was about 50 grains.


:lol: pay that one
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Re: lead exposure in shooters

Post by perentie » 15 Jul 2020, 6:03 am

Oldbloke wrote:.60 umol/L Is considered highish. At this point He should probably stop casting for a while. He needs the levels to come down. https://www.safeworkaustralia.gov.au/topic/lead

(Lead risk work is any work that will likely cause blood lead levels of a worker to exceed 20 µg/dL (0.97 µmol/L), or 5 µg/dL (0.24 µmol/L) for females of reproductive capacity.)

RISKS

lead is a toxic substance that can accumulate in the body over time
• lead can affect the nervous system, the kidneys, and can interfere with the body’s ability to make haemoglobin
• there are some reports which suggest that lead may adversely affect the reproductive systems of both males and females
• fetuses and infants are particularly susceptible to the effects of lead, therefore employees who are pregnant or breastfeeding may need to be excluded from working in a lead-risk job if their blood lead levels exceed prescribed limits; lead-risk jobs are jobs that may expose employees to high levels of lead

HOW DOES IT GET IN THE BODY?
Via the mouth when eating.smoking or handling materials
Via the lungs when in close proximity to very fine dust or vapours.

PREVENTION
Gloves
Washing hands and clothing (Practice good hygiene)
Good ventilation
Never eat or smoke when working with lead containing materials.(washing hands first)
Wearing a P3 respirator/mask when sweeping and casting is recommended

The above assumes you do a lot of casting.

Gloves, hygiene and good ventilation are the main ones.


Thanks. Good info here. I sent him the links to read up on.
Apart from the fan to blow away the fumes he does not use other protection.like mask or gloves but does wash hands before eating etc. Non smoker.
Lead pot is at about 800 degrees I believe.He handles the bullets with his bare hands(as I do as well) for sorting and weighing etc but we both thought washing was enough. He might have to lift his game a bit.
How many casters on here get their Blood lead levels checked?
What are other typical levels?
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Re: lead exposure in shooters

Post by Oldbloke » 15 Jul 2020, 8:23 am

How much casting does he do?

Perentie, PM sent
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Re: lead exposure in shooters

Post by bladeracer » 15 Jul 2020, 9:06 am

I tend to cast hundreds of different bullets in one session rather than be casting all the time. But for testing bullets, I'll often throw a couple dozen bullets just using the ladle and gas torch. So even if I did get the lead gassing off and get a bad dose, it would likely be months before I'd be doing another session anyway.

Is he actually unwell due to his lead levels?


perentie wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:.60 umol/L Is considered highish. At this point He should probably stop casting for a while. He needs the levels to come down. https://www.safeworkaustralia.gov.au/topic/lead

(Lead risk work is any work that will likely cause blood lead levels of a worker to exceed 20 µg/dL (0.97 µmol/L), or 5 µg/dL (0.24 µmol/L) for females of reproductive capacity.)

RISKS

lead is a toxic substance that can accumulate in the body over time
• lead can affect the nervous system, the kidneys, and can interfere with the body’s ability to make haemoglobin
• there are some reports which suggest that lead may adversely affect the reproductive systems of both males and females
• fetuses and infants are particularly susceptible to the effects of lead, therefore employees who are pregnant or breastfeeding may need to be excluded from working in a lead-risk job if their blood lead levels exceed prescribed limits; lead-risk jobs are jobs that may expose employees to high levels of lead

HOW DOES IT GET IN THE BODY?
Via the mouth when eating.smoking or handling materials
Via the lungs when in close proximity to very fine dust or vapours.

PREVENTION
Gloves
Washing hands and clothing (Practice good hygiene)
Good ventilation
Never eat or smoke when working with lead containing materials.(washing hands first)
Wearing a P3 respirator/mask when sweeping and casting is recommended

The above assumes you do a lot of casting.

Gloves, hygiene and good ventilation are the main ones.


Thanks. Good info here. I sent him the links to read up on.
Apart from the fan to blow away the fumes he does not use other protection.like mask or gloves but does wash hands before eating etc. Non smoker.
Lead pot is at about 800 degrees I believe.He handles the bullets with his bare hands(as I do as well) for sorting and weighing etc but we both thought washing was enough. He might have to lift his game a bit.
How many casters on here get their Blood lead levels checked?
What are other typical levels?
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Re: lead exposure in shooters

Post by perentie » 16 Jul 2020, 8:15 am

Oldbloke wrote:How much casting does he do?

Perentie, PM sent


Thats it. He said not much , perhaps a hundred at a time in a couple of months.
He does not feel crook, just got the blood tests done on spec to see whats happening as he read about it.
Might be better if we dont know rather than worry about it ;)
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Re: lead exposure in shooters

Post by TassieTiger » 16 Jul 2020, 8:54 am

An old friend who has passed away used to tell me his lips would tingle and go a shade of blue - so he’d then take a break from casting...Well before the seriousness was known.
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Re: lead exposure in shooters

Post by Grandadbushy » 16 Jul 2020, 9:40 am

I watched a program on tv a few years back and it was about the romans , there was text found in an old city about the madness sickness that many were getting, since then tests were done on bones found in that city and many others and what was found was that those people were carrying the highest amount of lead in their system known to man, it was known at the time if enough lead entered your body it can send you mad from the effects. Then studies were done on the towns and it was found that waterlines were actually made of lead and so were drinking utensils, jugs, roof drains to catch water and some other containers, it would have been enough to cause severe lead poisoning to the people
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Re: lead exposure in shooters

Post by Oldbloke » 16 Jul 2020, 10:34 am

Grandadbushy wrote:I watched a program on tv a few years back and it was about the romans , there was text found in an old city about the madness sickness that many were getting, since then tests were done on bones found in that city and many others and what was found was that those people were carrying the highest amount of lead in their system known to man, it was known at the time if enough lead entered your body it can send you mad from the effects. Then studies were done on the towns and it was found that waterlines were actually made of lead and so were drinking utensils, jugs, roof drains to catch water and some other containers, it would have been enough to cause severe lead poisoning to the people


GDB, that's been well known for some years.

What is less well known is the Egyptians used asbestos for clothing and many other uses. They knew back then that the asbestos miners were dying of lung diseases.

Funny how James Hardy and a few other companies didnt know that! Yeh, funny that! :sarcasm:
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Re: lead exposure in shooters

Post by Grandadbushy » 16 Jul 2020, 6:41 pm

Yeah OB it's amazing how we never learn from our mistakes , that asbestos one is a new one to me, but as far as those companies not knowing ,well i think they did but it got in the way of making money so it was carry on as usual at the expense of people, the sad thing is the people who paid with their health and their lives something that can never be given back to them
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Re: lead exposure in shooters

Post by Oldbloke » 16 Jul 2020, 6:57 pm

Grandadbushy wrote:Yeah OB it's amazing how we never learn from our mistakes , that asbestos one is a new one to me, but as far as those companies not knowing ,well i think they did but it got in the way of making money so it was carry on as usual at the expense of people, the sad thing is the people who paid with their health and their lives something that can never be given back to them


Correct

But the General M.anager and Managing Director are enjoying the world cruise, private jets and mega yacht.
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Re: lead exposure in shooters

Post by Oldbloke » 25 Jul 2020, 10:09 am

Perentie, what happened here?
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Re: lead exposure in shooters

Post by targetshooter900 » 25 Jul 2020, 10:38 am

Blr243 wrote:I have heard that painters sanding old lead based paint develop flu like symptoms when they get too much exposure to it


Same for plumbers/roofers dealing with lead flashings and other lead products used in construction
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Re: lead exposure in shooters

Post by perentie » 26 Jul 2020, 8:59 am

Oldbloke wrote:Perentie, what happened here?


He said he will knock off casting for a bit. And drink more milk :D
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Re: lead exposure in shooters

Post by Oldbloke » 26 Jul 2020, 10:21 am

perentie wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:Perentie, what happened here?


He said he will knock off casting for a bit. And drink more milk :D


Good short term. But doesn't proactively fix the cause.
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Re: lead exposure in shooters

Post by mickb » 06 Aug 2020, 12:49 am

Oldbloke wrote:Corobeeboy,

Some primers in the past have contained small amounts of Lead Azide or Lead styphnate and mercury fulminate. Mercury being more hazardous than lead. But most are now lead free.


Are you sure about that? My undertanding is lead in primers was still pretty standard and 'lead free primers' were a more specialised product. Just checked Federals website:

"Accuracy Starts at Ignition. They call it B-lead styphnate, but in plain English, it's the fuel our primers use to achieve their world-renowned quality. All Premium loads feature the finest primers, which are subjected to more frequent inspections for dimensional tolerances and charge weight to ensure they deliver consistent ignition for every shot. We also load select products with our exclusive Catalyst primer. Its lead-free technology provides the most reliable, consistent ignition possible"


Talking to the cowboy shooters in the US .Some of these guys struggle with their lead levels and they say primers are part of the problem but also comes down to the very high volumes they fire a month.
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Re: lead exposure in shooters

Post by Oldbloke » 06 Aug 2020, 1:04 am

Oldbloke wrote:Could be. You would need to check. Like anything we consume. But risk is still not high unless you shoot indoors.


Mickb.
My statement was questioned back then.

Each company would use its own recipe. As you have discovered some obviously still contain lead. They would contribute, but I would think most comes from the lead bullets used. May be wrong. But lots of shooting indoors must be higher risk that less outdoors.
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Re: lead exposure in shooters

Post by mickb » 06 Aug 2020, 4:08 pm

I think its more like most primers have lead, than some. You can select a non lead option yep, but they will advertise it as such.

Couple of threads worth looking at from the cowboy forums regards their lead levels.

https://forums.sassnet.com/index.php?/t ... nt-3941265
https://forums.sassnet.com/index.php?/t ... ead-level/
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Re: lead exposure in shooters

Post by Oldbloke » 06 Aug 2020, 5:12 pm

Seems Im being corrected.. Mmm I was under the impression companies started phasing it out a fair few years ago.

I think the main issues are indoor shooting (lead bullets) or casting with poor ventilation. And a lot of it.
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