Hey want to see how a police state starts?

[juststarting]

s**t! what was that ???!

...indication that your shotgun needs cleaning? ROFL

There was a helicopter doing circles for 40 minutes last night just above my place, so I got a sudden urge to at 12am to clean my 44 lol. And look at that, right next to the ammo locker. But I was too lazy, so I just watched YouTube. Straya! LOL

[Yipikaye]

I think the biggest difference here is that Australians must not suffer from the same inadequacies that Americans seem to and these kinds of posts are just fear mongering based in fantasy rather than fiction.

True. But remember we didn't have a civil war or fight for our independence there are often historical facts behind culture.

Wow that's deep for me. /gets beer

[wrenchman]

trust is earned politicians dont tend to do well in that area

[Daddybang]

Just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean they are not after you.

That's a fact.

trust is earned politicians dont tend to do well in that area

And that's another one

[<<Genesis93>>]

....In fact, "in general terms", anyone with these types of concerns would be classified very close to paranoid/delusional and bordering on having mental health issues.

Probably like anyone who in 1910 would have suggested that in this decade our government will take us into the greatest conflagration the world has yet seen, 20million will die and maps all around the world will be rewritten..... right?

The present situation applying to firearm owners (to use the example) is that once we 'accept' the licence condition we're effectively agreeing to the imposition of martial law, where many of our right are relinquished.... such as searches, entry to our home or place of business without warrant, loss of property for many reasons etc.... such provision do NOT apply to other classes of people..... but that is probably just my mental illness playing up again.

[Jandamurra]

....In fact, "in general terms", anyone with these types of concerns would be classified very close to paranoid/delusional and bordering on having mental health issues.

Probably like anyone who in 1910 would have suggested that in this decade our government will take us into the greatest conflagration the world has yet seen, 20million will die and maps all around the world will be rewritten..... right?

The present situation applying to firearm owners (to use the example) is that once we 'accept' the licence condition we're effectively agreeing to the imposition of martial law, where many of our right are relinquished.... such as searches, entry to our home or place of business without warrant, loss of property for many reasons etc.... such provision do NOT apply to other classes of people..... but that is probably just my mental illness playing up again.

Right on.
I'm saying a similar thing in the thread about crossbows.

[Jandamurra]

Crim yells aloha snackbar -terrorist
Crim yells I hate pigs - no terrorist
Hell of a Grey area in between

In VIC crim yells... Pew pew pew pew pew follows. Lol

Haha...

Yep. VicPol have never had much in the way of qualms when it comes to shooting to kill. It's kind'a a proud tradition.

I have no problems if police shoot terrorist inorder to protect a citizen or them selves.

I do have issues where people are shot for less than life threatening situations. E. G just breaking in to your house. Therefore I'm not in favour of adopting laws similar to the USA.

And they are in no position to lecture is on gun laws given the very high rates of murders/shootings.

They need to have a good look at social welfare system in my view.

Having said that some of our gun laws are pretty stupid.

Just expressing an opinion.

You wrote:
And they are in no position to lecture is on gun laws given the very high rates of murders/shootings
See here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... icide_rate .

[Archie]

Crim yells aloha snackbar -terrorist
Crim yells I hate pigs - no terrorist
Hell of a Grey area in between

In VIC crim yells... Pew pew pew pew pew follows. Lol

Haha...

Yep. VicPol have never had much in the way of qualms when it comes to shooting to kill. It's kind'a a proud tradition.

I have no problems if police shoot terrorist inorder to protect a citizen or them selves.

I do have issues where people are shot for less than life threatening situations. E. G just breaking in to your house. Therefore I'm not in favour of adopting laws similar to the USA.

And they are in no position to lecture is on gun laws given the very high rates of murders/shootings.

They need to have a good look at social welfare system in my view.

Having said that some of our gun laws are pretty stupid.

Just expressing an opinion.

You wrote:
And they are in no position to lecture is on gun laws given the very high rates of murders/shootings
See here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... icide_rate .

So... are you saying that the US murder rate isn't that high? It's 5 x that of Australia, UK, New Zealand... by far the highest of any developed country. Implying that the US murder rate isn't high because it's not as terrible as literally the worst places on the planet, is like saying a person with the flu isn't sick because he doesn't have Ebola.

[juststarting]

Think there are 2 points here... 1 - Archie's, spot on. It's the highest murder rate of developed countries. That's bad. Also, some of the highest of undeveloped lawless countries, that's really bad.

The other point, is that you fools are arguing that Australia is not a police state. If police enforce the law that they made up, it's a police state. Everyone is sadly correct here.

[<<Genesis93>>]

If I was a (US) American, i would be extremely annoyed when the world seems to classify the whole as 'one' when describing the murder rate.... its easy, however simplistic..I've goner over it in details, but I'm a Nazi so you'd expect me to bring race into it......

The states with the highest black population have the highest murder rate.....states with the highest white have the lowest..... thats an indisputable fact... oh, its a result of the socio-economic factors.. is that a cause or effect....

The Washington DC has rate of 15.9/100k, thats worse than most other nations in the world... it has a black population of 49%. So thats almost 4 times the national average....homicide and also coincidentally, 4x the national average black population....

White states have homicide rates similar to our 'white' states while the NT has a rate about 6 times our national average AND higher than ALL BUT 3 US states!

of course all this feeds into the police state necessity and build up as it does here.... we will within 2 yrs I'd say, see GD cops in not only NSW (as we know) but also Vic and other states more often toting semi-auto rifles (theyre only assault weapons when we want them).... APC type vehicles, more and more public spaces cordoned off with more police 'out there' visually.... when all that was needed to prevent this scenario, was to entrust the safety of the public .... with the public... concealed carry by those bona fide among us.... but that is not what the Police (union) want, so No no to that.

[GLS_1956]

Homicide is death from other than natural causes. Intentional homicide leaves out suicide, manslaughter, and accidental, that leaves murder, self-defense, those killed by law enforcement and execution.

The MURDER rate in the USA continues to go down as gun ownership rises.

[happyhunter]

The states with the highest black population have the highest murder rate.....states with the highest white have the lowest..... thats an indisputable fact... oh, its a result of the socio-economic factors.. is that a cause or effect....

There was a time during the 1990s in Australia where Alice Springs the worlds highest murder rate per capita and it was due to black on black killings.

[wrenchman]

black on black and drug gang crime and peaple with mental health priblims muke up most the gun deaths.
heroin deaths are so hi right now that citys are leaseing freezer trucks to store bodys but we dont like to talk about that stat and it is tied into the gun deaths every dealer has a gun and not one of them guns are legal.
if you are going to use our numbers take them with some dought they are not as hi many of them are inflated mayors like bloomberg do that its political.

[gazza]

In Australia we have alcohol and knifes. Often the offender and the victim are both drunk, especially in the NT.

[bigfellascott]

Hows the Police state thing go, anyone been shot by a cop yet? (I'm still under the bed scared to come out until it's safe to do so) hope someone will post that it's safe to do so soon cos I'm sick of baked beans and farts)

[Bent Arrow]

Hows the Police state thing go, anyone been shot by a cop yet? (I'm still under the bed scared to come out until it's safe to do so) hope someone will post that it's safe to do so soon cos I'm sick of baked beans and farts)

Best stay there for a while yet. I saw a police car yesterday

[bigfellascott]

Hows the Police state thing go, anyone been shot by a cop yet? (I'm still under the bed scared to come out until it's safe to do so) hope someone will post that it's safe to do so soon cos I'm sick of baked beans and farts)

Best stay there for a while yet. I saw a police car yesterday

Ah s**t no, no way I'm coming out if there's a cop car driving around Give us a call when it's safe to come out will ya.

[happyhunter]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-10/p ... ch/8258904

[Oldbloke]

So do the yanks on this forum think we are the 51st State of the USA? And our firearm laws should mimic theirs.

Although we do have some stupid firearm laws it doesn't mean we need to blindly copy theirs.

[wrenchman]

no i dont so with out makeing this post to long when your country wants to change the laws they will but it will take guys like you to make them changes over the last few election i have noticed shooters are starting to get a voice in politics were you are

[bladeracer]

So do the yanks on this forum think we are the 51st State of the USA? And our firearm laws should mimic theirs.

Although we do have some stupid firearm laws it doesn't mean we need to blindly copy theirs.

It's impossible to use the term "US gun laws" with any meaning. Some places have far, far tighter laws than we do, other places have essentially none at all. The anti-gun crowd could just as easily call for our laws to copy the US, provided we copy California.

[GLS_1956]

Oldbloke, I don't think of, nor do I believe others think of, Australia as the 51ST American state, the odds are that will be Puerto Rico. What I see are two things: First is a great, free. and vibrant country on the road to becoming another Venezuela. The second thing I see is the poster child for the persons in the USA who wish to see America fall.

[<<Genesis93>>]

hahaha Puerto Rico.... sure, 97% voted to be a state but it was only 23% who bothered voting.... so 22% effectively.....

[Jandamurra]

So do the yanks on this forum think we are the 51st State of the USA? And our firearm laws should mimic theirs.

Although we do have some stupid firearm laws it doesn't mean we need to blindly copy theirs.

Cuts both ways, though, doesn't it?
If the US can't "teach" us anything about guns, then that has to include anything bad as well as anything good.
You allege, against all information to the contrary, that the US has a "gun problem" brought about by excessively relaxed laws.
But if the US situation is inapplicable to here, then why should we have any concern about relaxing our laws? Maybe it will be more like Switzerland if we had much more relaxed gun laws, rather than you fictitious version of the US.

[Jandamurra]

I think the biggest difference here is that Australians must not suffer from the same inadequacies that Americans seem to and these kinds of posts are just fear mongering based in fantasy rather than fiction.
In general terms we aren't worried that the "nasty government" is ever going to go into full militia mode, raid everyones homes, or drag people into the street, or imprison them unjustly.
In fact, "in general terms", anyone with these types of concerns would be classified very close to paranoid/delusional and bordering on having mental health issues.

Well maybe we SHOULD be worried about the "nasty government" wanting to raid people's homes for no good reason, etc.
Look what happened in Boston.
Food for thought here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDBh3K-HyBE and here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDBh3K-HyBE .

[Jandamurra]

Crim yells aloha snackbar -terrorist
Crim yells I hate pigs - no terrorist
Hell of a Grey area in between

In VIC crim yells... Pew pew pew pew pew follows. Lol

Haha...

Yep. VicPol have never had much in the way of qualms when it comes to shooting to kill. It's kind'a a proud tradition.

I have no problems if police shoot terrorist inorder to protect a citizen or them selves.

I do have issues where people are shot for less than life threatening situations. E. G just breaking in to your house. Therefore I'm not in favour of adopting laws similar to the USA.


And they are in no position to lecture is on gun laws given the very high rates of murders/shootings.

This link shows the falseness of your argument- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... icide_rate . I always put it up but then you always say the same things that need to be corrected so I have to. See also my post immediately below this.
How are you in a position to evaluate what is or isn't a life-threatening situation? Why are you prepared to force people to gamble with the safety of their families?
As far as I'm concerned. a home intruder should look on his activities the same way as someone who decides to play cricket in the middle of the Hume Highway.


They need to have a good look at social welfare system in my view.

Hmmm, maybe their welfare system needs to be looked at and not their gun laws? That is the gist of what you're saying-otherwise, why bring it up?

Having said that some of our gun laws are pretty stupid.

What specifically? The FAR's?

Just expressing an opinion.

[wrenchman]

your country would not be like the us if you did relaxed your laws to the most lean state we have states with greater populations then you have in your country and a
lot of social issues are different and we tend to let stupid just happen .
like black lives matter protesting by walking in the sreets and they get shocked when some one gets run over becouse they decided to try it on a freeway on a side note it does thin out that stupid gene pool.

[Anon E Mouse]

I think most Australian gun owners and most on this forum would agree with you about the Howard government. I could see taking this tone if you were arguing with an Aussie who was against ownership. I have been in such arguments. One, in particular, was really annoying because it wasn't enough that Australian gun laws are what they are, but she said that we should do the same in the USA. I took exception to that because it really is none of her business. Australians are free to comment on our gun laws, but her self righteous attitude was a lot to take. She didn't even do her homework and was very misinformed. Yours borders on that for Australians, and doesn't do much for Australian-American relations. Even though we aren't in government and just a few out of millions people shouldn't be causing friction. Especially just for a cheap thrill, which is really what you are doing here. I mean, c'mon. No constitution in Australia. They have a constitution.

I think it was a fundamental injustice what Howard did to all those law abiding gun owners in Australia. I think it is disturbing that I saw an interview with an Australian farmer who said he was angry about his guns being confiscated at first, but then he realized that it was for the good of society and Australia. This from a man who had never harmed anyone. Still, we've too many Americans (even gun owners) that are far too willing to think that gun controllers in the USA are well meaning but misguided.

We've our own problems in the USA. One is that we are now 17th on the economic freedom index (Heritage Foundation data) while Australia is 5th. This is a result of Bush and Obama. Even the UK ranks higher on this list at 12th. They've come a long way since the 1970s. So keep from throwing stones. Those in glass houses.

I think the right to keep and bear arms is an important right, but the key to all rights comes in property rights and economic freedom. Economic freedom is more important than every other right recognized in our Bill of Rights. Without economic freedom all the rest are merely symbolic.

Just watch this:

http://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/courts-law/shoottokill-police-get-new-powers-to-combat-cowardly-evil-acts/news-story/7b5c3a48c0705b4222e82a0072c068a6

Remember little Johnny Coward's "gun buy-back" in 1996?

So now you have a largely dis-armed population, who are now being policed by law enforcement who just got new ‘shoot-to-kill’ powers against terrorists to combat ‘cowardly, evil acts’.

It's not hard to see these new powers being extended to pretty much any form of tyrannical control, by the government! Where by simple things like speaking out against politicians or protesting is conventionally classified as a "cowardly, evil act."

THIS is why we have the 2nd amendment in the USA!

Australia has NO constitution, so you all are at the mercy of the future tyrants... er, I mean... government.