O'Reilly's in Thornbury robbed earlier today.

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Re: O'Reilly's in Thornbury robbed earlier today.

Post by AusTac » 14 Feb 2018, 7:00 am

If i ever was to get into a life threatening situation i'll be sure to call a quick time out and brush up on law :crazy:
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Re: O'Reilly's in Thornbury robbed earlier today.

Post by trekin » 14 Feb 2018, 7:18 am

AusTac wrote:If i ever was to get into a life threatening situation i'll be sure to call a quick time out and brush up on law :crazy:

Even hard working crims take the time to get to know some laws that may help in their defence, and take the time to find a lawyer who will actually try to defend them in court instead of rolling over and copping it and put them on speed dial. What's your excuse? :P
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Re: O'Reilly's in Thornbury robbed earlier today.

Post by Supaduke » 14 Feb 2018, 8:09 am

AusTac wrote:If i ever was to get into a life threatening situation i'll be sure to call a quick time out and brush up on law :crazy:


Takes a few minutes of reading to know your rights and dispell BS myths about burglars being able to sue. You are well within your rights to defend yourself and apprehend people inside your house who broke in.

Knowledge is power.

There is assumed access to your front door. Not illegal to enter a property and knock on the front door. That is the beginning and end of any strangers right to access your property without permission.

Guys reading the meter have access to them only and can't enter anywhere else.

Do your part, learn your rights and dispell the crap.
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Re: O'Reilly's in Thornbury robbed earlier today.

Post by juststarting » 14 Feb 2018, 8:16 am

AusTac wrote:If i ever was to get into a life threatening situation i'll be sure to call a quick time out and brush up on law :crazy:


Exactly! Everyone seems to be ignoring this.
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Re: O'Reilly's in Thornbury robbed earlier today.

Post by AusTac » 14 Feb 2018, 8:18 am

Double post :x
Last edited by AusTac on 14 Feb 2018, 8:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: O'Reilly's in Thornbury robbed earlier today.

Post by AusTac » 14 Feb 2018, 8:20 am

trekin wrote:What's your excuse? :P

The police will protect me :lol:
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Re: O'Reilly's in Thornbury robbed earlier today.

Post by trekin » 14 Feb 2018, 8:21 am

Supaduke wrote:
AusTac wrote:If i ever was to get into a life threatening situation i'll be sure to call a quick time out and brush up on law :crazy:


Takes a few minutes of reading to know your rights and dispell BS myths about burglars being able to sue. You are well within your rights to defend yourself and apprehend people inside your house who broke in.

Knowledge is power.

There is assumed access to your front door. Not illegal to enter a property and knock on the front door. That is the beginning and end of any strangers right to access your property without permission.

Guys reading the meter have access to them only and can't enter anywhere else.

Do your part, learn your rights and dispell the crap.

"ignorantia legis neminem excusat" works for both sides.
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Re: O'Reilly's in Thornbury robbed earlier today.

Post by trekin » 14 Feb 2018, 8:31 am

AusTac wrote:
trekin wrote:What's your excuse? :P

The police will protect me :lol:

Wish I had me one of them. :mrgreen: Do you need a PTA to get one :?:
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Re: O'Reilly's in Thornbury robbed earlier today.

Post by Wombat » 14 Feb 2018, 6:35 pm

Supaduke wrote:There is assumed access to your front door. Not illegal to enter a property and knock on the front door. That is the beginning and end of any strangers right to access your property without permission.

Guys reading the meter have access to them only and can't enter anywhere else.

Do your part, learn your rights and dispell the crap.

Actually there are other exceptions including some council officers, they can enter a property for an inspection without notice.
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Re: O'Reilly's in Thornbury robbed earlier today.

Post by Daddybang » 14 Feb 2018, 7:37 pm

Wombat wrote:
Supaduke wrote:There is assumed access to your front door. Not illegal to enter a property and knock on the front door. That is the beginning and end of any strangers right to access your property without permission.

Guys reading the meter have access to them only and can't enter anywhere else.

Do your part, learn your rights and dispell the crap.

Actually there are other exceptions including some council officers, they can enter a property for an inspection without notice.


Don't know about other states but up here the fisheries mob can pretty much enter where and when they like. They actually have greater powers than the police for search and seizure. :thumbsdown: :drinks:
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Re: O'Reilly's in Thornbury robbed earlier today.

Post by sungazer » 14 Feb 2018, 7:45 pm

A guy down the road was building his own house and it was pretty much finished and they had started to live it. One day a policeman rolled up with a councilor in tow. It turned out that the councilor had to do an inspection or deliver some news and had the police accompany him as the householder had a firearms license. So it is not only police that can access the file as to who holds a firearms license. The home owner of course was just a normal guy and not in anyway upset or angry at the councilors visit it was all over in 5 minutes as those type of inspections are and the police left without any fuss
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Re: O'Reilly's in Thornbury robbed earlier today.

Post by holden4th » 14 Feb 2018, 7:51 pm

trekin wrote:
holden4th wrote:From another perspective.

If my home is invaded. I have a handgun and loaded ammunition on the premises. The handgun is locked in my safe. My ammunition is stored separately and is also locked up. The location of both means that I would have very little chance of reaching and loading my firearm. When I selected my storage points, a home invasion was the last thought on my mind. If Imoved to new premises it would still be like that.

Reasonable use of force in Australia is an interesting legal concept. A number of years ago I surprised someone who had broken into my unit, subdued them with minimal force and restrained them. When the police showed up they recognised the burglar, ignored his complaints about being attacked by me, took him away and after getting details from me that was it. Assuming this happened in QLD, being "known to police" would have very little to do with the outcome you decribed. Police officers who knew the laws of QLD, and were willing to uphold the Rights of one of its citizens were probably the reason you were not given any grief.

I talked to a mate of mine who is a lawyer about the incident who said I was very lucky. The police could have charged me with illegally restraining an individual. Today I probably wouldn't get away with it. No you probably wouldn't IF you retained the services of a lawyer who;
A. Does not know the laws of this State,
B. Is too lazy to put together a defence on your behalf, because they are either incompetent in their chosen profession, or are just after the easy buck, or,
C. Are just wanna-be politicians in the making, with no concerns for the Rights of this States citizens, but still wanting to get their snouts in the public trough on a platform of law and order.
Now this is for just stopping and restraining someone who entered my home illegally. Add a weapon and it gets worse.

Get to know and understand the laws. Section 267 of The QLD Criminal Code Act not only endorses your Common Law Right to defend your home by whatever means you decide to use;
"267 Defence of dwelling
It is lawful for a person who is in peaceable possession of a
dwelling, and any person lawfully assisting him or her or
acting by his or her authority, to use force to prevent or repel
another person from unlawfully entering or remaining in the
dwelling, if the person using the force believes on reasonable
grounds—
(a) the other person is attempting to enter or to remain in
the dwelling with intent to commit an indictable offence
in the dwelling; and
(b) it is necessary to use that force."
It also, by its wording, embraces 'Castle Doctrine' and removes your 'duty to retreat' which has been upheld by The Supreme Court of QLD.
https://archive.sclqld.org.au/qjudgment ... 13-361.pdf
https://archive.sclqld.org.au/qjudgment ... 09-375.pdf
https://archive.sclqld.org.au/qjudgment ... 13-339.pdf


Thank you for the information regarding how to deal with someone breaking into my home. I did use the 'citizens arrest' scenario when talking to the cops, in fact I made it when I called 000 so it was on record. I now feel far more confident in taking affirmative action against scumbag thieves who want to steal my property.
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Re: O'Reilly's in Thornbury robbed earlier today.

Post by southeast varmiter » 14 Feb 2018, 8:56 pm

Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6
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Re: O'Reilly's in Thornbury robbed earlier today.

Post by Supaduke » 14 Feb 2018, 10:13 pm

Daddybang wrote:
Wombat wrote:
Supaduke wrote:There is assumed access to your front door. Not illegal to enter a property and knock on the front door. That is the beginning and end of any strangers right to access your property without permission.

Guys reading the meter have access to them only and can't enter anywhere else.

Do your part, learn your rights and dispell the crap.

Actually there are other exceptions including some council officers, they can enter a property for an inspection without notice.


Don't know about other states but up here the fisheries mob can pretty much enter where and when they like. They actually have greater powers than the police for search and seizure. :thumbsdown: :drinks:


I understand what you are saying, there are of course exceptions for visitors there in some sort of official capacity. I'm talking more about some random member of the public.
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Re: O'Reilly's in Thornbury robbed earlier today.

Post by Daddybang » 14 Feb 2018, 11:31 pm

Yep I get what ya saying :thumbsup: :drinks:
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Re: O'Reilly's in Thornbury robbed earlier today.

Post by trekin » 15 Feb 2018, 7:39 am

Daddybang wrote:
Wombat wrote:
Supaduke wrote:There is assumed access to your front door. Not illegal to enter a property and knock on the front door. That is the beginning and end of any strangers right to access your property without permission.

Guys reading the meter have access to them only and can't enter anywhere else.

Do your part, learn your rights and dispell the crap.

Actually there are other exceptions including some council officers, they can enter a property for an inspection without notice.


Don't know about other states but up here the fisheries mob can pretty much enter where and when they like. They actually have greater powers than the police for search and seizure. :thumbsdown: :drinks:

In actual fact their powers to search and seize are maybe just on par with those given to the police under the Police Powers and Responsibilities Act with the following exception Section 145 Entry to places (2) (b)
(2) An inspector may also enter a place if—
(a) the place is not within a city or town under the Local Government Act 2009 ; and
(b) the place is not the site or curtilage of a building or other structure used for residential purposes; and
(c) the purpose of the entry is to gain access, by a direct reasonable route, to a body of water.
Entry onto private property

"At common law, all people, including police, have the tacit consent of the lawful occupier of a property to enter and proceed to the common entry point of a building or residence (i.e. the front door). This consent can be withdrawn by the lawful occupier placing a notice at the gate, installing a locked gate (in which case no person is lawfully entitled to enter the dwelling or land without permission of an occupier) or by requiring any person, including police, to leave the property. Once a person is required to leave or if consent is withdrawn, the person becomes a trespasser and can be removed from the property with force by an occupier, provided the force used is reasonable and does not cause grievous bodily harm (s 277 Criminal Code Act 1899 (Qld)).

If a police officer is refused entry to a property or is asked to leave, the officer must leave unless there is some specific legal right that allows the officer to enter and/or remain. Under the Police Powers and Responsibilities Act 2000 (Qld) (PPR Act), police officers are empowered to enter private property without the consent of the occupier in specific instances including to:

investigate or inquire into a matter or serve documents (unless a warrant is required by law in the circumstances) (s 19)
arrest or detain a person where empowered to do so under an Act, and it is reasonably suspected that the person is in the dwelling (s 21)
search the place pursuant to a search warrant and to the extent permitted by the warrant
search the place to prevent the loss of evidence
prevent the occurrence or continuation of injury to a person, damage to property or domestic violence (ss 609–611)
ensure compliance with other relevant laws (s 22)
stop excessive noise (s 581)."
https://queenslandlawhandbook.org.au/th ... -property/

Ignorance of statue law and Common Law Rights coupled with stand over, bully boy tactics of sworn officers/inspectors is what the real problem is.
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Re: O'Reilly's in Thornbury robbed earlier today.

Post by trekin » 15 Feb 2018, 8:03 am

holden4th wrote:
trekin wrote:
holden4th wrote:From another perspective.

If my home is invaded. I have a handgun and loaded ammunition on the premises. The handgun is locked in my safe. My ammunition is stored separately and is also locked up. The location of both means that I would have very little chance of reaching and loading my firearm. When I selected my storage points, a home invasion was the last thought on my mind. If Imoved to new premises it would still be like that.

Reasonable use of force in Australia is an interesting legal concept. A number of years ago I surprised someone who had broken into my unit, subdued them with minimal force and restrained them. When the police showed up they recognised the burglar, ignored his complaints about being attacked by me, took him away and after getting details from me that was it. Assuming this happened in QLD, being "known to police" would have very little to do with the outcome you decribed. Police officers who knew the laws of QLD, and were willing to uphold the Rights of one of its citizens were probably the reason you were not given any grief.

I talked to a mate of mine who is a lawyer about the incident who said I was very lucky. The police could have charged me with illegally restraining an individual. Today I probably wouldn't get away with it. No you probably wouldn't IF you retained the services of a lawyer who;
A. Does not know the laws of this State,
B. Is too lazy to put together a defence on your behalf, because they are either incompetent in their chosen profession, or are just after the easy buck, or,
C. Are just wanna-be politicians in the making, with no concerns for the Rights of this States citizens, but still wanting to get their snouts in the public trough on a platform of law and order.
Now this is for just stopping and restraining someone who entered my home illegally. Add a weapon and it gets worse.

Get to know and understand the laws. Section 267 of The QLD Criminal Code Act not only endorses your Common Law Right to defend your home by whatever means you decide to use;
"267 Defence of dwelling
It is lawful for a person who is in peaceable possession of a
dwelling, and any person lawfully assisting him or her or
acting by his or her authority, to use force to prevent or repel
another person from unlawfully entering or remaining in the
dwelling, if the person using the force believes on reasonable
grounds—
(a) the other person is attempting to enter or to remain in
the dwelling with intent to commit an indictable offence
in the dwelling; and
(b) it is necessary to use that force."
It also, by its wording, embraces 'Castle Doctrine' and removes your 'duty to retreat' which has been upheld by The Supreme Court of QLD.
https://archive.sclqld.org.au/qjudgment ... 13-361.pdf
https://archive.sclqld.org.au/qjudgment ... 09-375.pdf
https://archive.sclqld.org.au/qjudgment ... 13-339.pdf


Thank you for the information regarding how to deal with someone breaking into my home. I did use the 'citizens arrest' scenario when talking to the cops, in fact I made it when I called 000 so it was on record. I now feel far more confident in taking affirmative action against scumbag thieves who want to steal my property.

Some words to remember should you, or anyone else, end up in the same situation again.
"I believe he/she/they were there to steal my firearms."
Stealing firearms, in QLD, is an indictable offence. You own firearms, therefore it is reasonable to believe anyone caught in you home, not authorised to be there, is there to steal your firearms.
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Re: O'Reilly's in Thornbury robbed earlier today.

Post by Daddybang » 15 Feb 2018, 8:23 am

Ignorance of statue law and Common Law Rights coupled with stand over, bully boy tactics of sworn officers/inspectors is what the real problem is.[/quote]

Yeah this is the case but have ya ever tried to argue with a fisheries inspector? :lol:
I always advise people to download a pdf
Copy of the police powers and responsibilities act for their state and keep it with them problem is its written in legalese that most of us don't understand and it's very easy for the police to manipulate that. :drinks:
This hard living ain't as easy as it used to be!!!
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Re: O'Reilly's in Thornbury robbed earlier today.

Post by Gwion » 15 Feb 2018, 1:44 pm

Sapaduke. Unless the laws have significantly changed in the last 20 year, things aren't quite as generous in Vic as you have outlined.

Now, I'm not trying to be argumentative, this is just what I was taught by the ex-police prosecutor who took our legal section or security industry training back in mid 90s.
This is about how the law is commonly interpreted in court and by police and also, as emphasised by our trainer, how to build a "legal wall" to protect your self: i.e., don't skate along the edge of legality and common interpretation:

1/ The public has an assumed licence to enter a property. Not just to the front door but even to enter the building. This assumed licence can be revoked in 3 common ways
- by erecting a "man proof" fence and locked gates around the entire perimeter
- by keeping all doors and window locked
- by written or verbal revocation of assumed licence (not signs as they usually don't stand up in court: this means a personally addressed letter or a simple "hey mate, get off/don't come on my place"

Until this assumed licence has been revoked, the person is not a trespasser. Upon revocation of this assumed licence you must give the person reasonable time to comply. This basically means giving them enough time to mentally process the demand and to enact the demand in a reasonable timely fashion. For example, if your front gate is 100m away and they are heading in that direction on your request, they are no yet trespassing.
Only if they refuse to comply do they become a trespasser.
Any trespasser can be evicted immediately using "any and all reasonable force."

2/ While any citizen person can enact a citizens arrest on reasonable grounds, it is a very sticky area to operate in. The offender must be found "committing and continuing to commit". Once you have apprehended the offender and restrained them, they can no longer continue to commit an offence and it will come down to your word against theirs in court unless you have water tight evidence. IE. "I apologised and realised I had done the wrong thing but this guy wouldn't let me go".

It may sound stupid but I would be more inclined to use "any and all reasonable force" to evict the individual and call the police immediately than I would to detain them.
"Any and all reasonable force" may include breaking their knee so that they cannot easily return to attack you; if that is a real and reasonable fear you have.

Again. Not trying to be an arse but my trainer took great pains to ensure we understood the risk of charges for wrongful imprisonment was very real and serious.
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Re: O'Reilly's in Thornbury robbed earlier today.

Post by juststarting » 16 Feb 2018, 8:01 am

Yep, legal system where cop bashers go free and...

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