O'Reilly's in Thornbury robbed earlier today.

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Re: O'Reilly's in Thornbury robbed earlier today.

Post by juststarting » 13 Feb 2018, 4:34 pm

Typicall crowd controller attitude. Discriminating against someone with a different opinion. What's next, you're going to punch me for disagreeing?
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Re: O'Reilly's in Thornbury robbed earlier today.

Post by Gwion » 13 Feb 2018, 4:44 pm

No mate. You're just wearing the wrong shoes :D :P
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Re: O'Reilly's in Thornbury robbed earlier today.

Post by juststarting » 13 Feb 2018, 4:47 pm

Point illustrated.
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Re: O'Reilly's in Thornbury robbed earlier today.

Post by Gwion » 13 Feb 2018, 5:47 pm

Come on JS. We were just playing, mate. :thumbsup:
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Re: O'Reilly's in Thornbury robbed earlier today.

Post by juststarting » 13 Feb 2018, 5:50 pm

You won't be laughing, when I drink and all your beer and eat all your trout!
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Re: O'Reilly's in Thornbury robbed earlier today.

Post by Gwion » 13 Feb 2018, 5:53 pm

:lol:
Just watch me... :thumbsup:
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Re: O'Reilly's in Thornbury robbed earlier today.

Post by Oldbloke » 13 Feb 2018, 6:07 pm

juststarting wrote:You won't be laughing, when I drink and all your beer and eat all your trout!


:clap: :lol:
The greatest invention in the history of man is beer.
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Re: O'Reilly's in Thornbury robbed earlier today.

Post by Gwion » 13 Feb 2018, 6:31 pm

Oldbloke wrote:
juststarting wrote:You won't be laughing, when I drink and all your beer and eat all your trout!


:clap: :lol:


Hang on. He's gotta catch all the trout first and there will be about 450lt of beer to drink!
:lol: :thumbsup: :drinks:
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Re: O'Reilly's in Thornbury robbed earlier today.

Post by holden4th » 13 Feb 2018, 6:34 pm

From another perspective.

If my home is invaded. I have a handgun and loaded ammunition on the premises. The handgun is locked in my safe. My ammunition is stored separately and is also locked up. The location of both means that I would have very little chance of reaching and loading my firearm. When I selected my storage points, a home invasion was the last thought on my mind. If Imoved to new premises it would still be like that.

Reasonable use of force in Australia is an interesting legal concept. A number of years ago I surprised someone who had broken into my unit, subdued them with minimal force and restrained them. When the police showed up they recognised the burglar, ignored his complaints about being attacked by me, took him away and after getting details from me that was it.

I talked to a mate of mine who is a lawyer about the incident who said I was very lucky. The police could have charged me with illegally restraining an individual. Today I probably wouldn't get away with it. Now this is for just stopping and restraining someone who entered my home illegally. Add a weapon and it gets worse.
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Re: O'Reilly's in Thornbury robbed earlier today.

Post by Gwion » 13 Feb 2018, 6:40 pm

Yep. This comes down to the clauses:
'Finds committing and continuing to commit.'
And
'Unlawful imprisonment'
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Re: O'Reilly's in Thornbury robbed earlier today.

Post by juststarting » 13 Feb 2018, 7:00 pm

...of trout, that I will liberate! Viva la Fish
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Re: O'Reilly's in Thornbury robbed earlier today.

Post by Gwion » 13 Feb 2018, 7:53 pm

Nice... :D
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Re: O'Reilly's in Thornbury robbed earlier today.

Post by bullzeye » 13 Feb 2018, 10:02 pm

I think you will find many of the people who work in gun shops embrace the gun culture and literally live and breathe guns/ often talk about how in the US they have better rights etc etc.

I know at my LGS many of the employees shoot at local pistol clubs. And if they were able to have additional training in an armed guard type position, many of them would be keen to do this and take on the additional responsibility. Most of these guys would be a better shot than criminals, and even the cops.

A gun shop needs to be able to defend themselves, otherwise it’s ok for a bunch of terrorists/ criminals to walk in and hold them up and take off with an arsenal of firearms? - I don’t think so.
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Re: O'Reilly's in Thornbury robbed earlier today.

Post by trekin » 14 Feb 2018, 5:51 am

holden4th wrote:From another perspective.

If my home is invaded. I have a handgun and loaded ammunition on the premises. The handgun is locked in my safe. My ammunition is stored separately and is also locked up. The location of both means that I would have very little chance of reaching and loading my firearm. When I selected my storage points, a home invasion was the last thought on my mind. If Imoved to new premises it would still be like that.

Reasonable use of force in Australia is an interesting legal concept. A number of years ago I surprised someone who had broken into my unit, subdued them with minimal force and restrained them. When the police showed up they recognised the burglar, ignored his complaints about being attacked by me, took him away and after getting details from me that was it. Assuming this happened in QLD, being "known to police" would have very little to do with the outcome you decribed. Police officers who knew the laws of QLD, and were willing to uphold the Rights of one of its citizens were probably the reason you were not given any grief.

I talked to a mate of mine who is a lawyer about the incident who said I was very lucky. The police could have charged me with illegally restraining an individual. Today I probably wouldn't get away with it. No you probably wouldn't IF you retained the services of a lawyer who;
A. Does not know the laws of this State,
B. Is too lazy to put together a defence on your behalf, because they are either incompetent in their chosen profession, or are just after the easy buck, or,
C. Are just wanna-be politicians in the making, with no concerns for the Rights of this States citizens, but still wanting to get their snouts in the public trough on a platform of law and order.
Now this is for just stopping and restraining someone who entered my home illegally. Add a weapon and it gets worse.

Get to know and understand the laws. Section 267 of The QLD Criminal Code Act not only endorses your Common Law Right to defend your home by whatever means you decide to use;
"267 Defence of dwelling
It is lawful for a person who is in peaceable possession of a
dwelling, and any person lawfully assisting him or her or
acting by his or her authority, to use force to prevent or repel
another person from unlawfully entering or remaining in the
dwelling, if the person using the force believes on reasonable
grounds—
(a) the other person is attempting to enter or to remain in
the dwelling with intent to commit an indictable offence
in the dwelling; and
(b) it is necessary to use that force."
It also, by its wording, embraces 'Castle Doctrine' and removes your 'duty to retreat' which has been upheld by The Supreme Court of QLD.
https://archive.sclqld.org.au/qjudgment ... 13-361.pdf
https://archive.sclqld.org.au/qjudgment ... 09-375.pdf
https://archive.sclqld.org.au/qjudgment ... 13-339.pdf
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Re: O'Reilly's in Thornbury robbed earlier today.

Post by Gwion » 14 Feb 2018, 6:19 am

That's interesting, Trekkin.
The wording "prevent or repel" however, does not allow you to "restrain and detain". I'm not that familiar with QLD laws around this but in Vic this can get you in strife. As soon as you physically restrain someone they are no long "continuing to commit" an offence so to detain them is unlawful imprisonment.
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Re: O'Reilly's in Thornbury robbed earlier today.

Post by trekin » 14 Feb 2018, 6:27 am

Gwion wrote:That's interesting, Trekkin.
The wording "prevent or repel" however, does not allow you to "restrain and detain". I'm not that familiar with QLD laws around this but in Vic this can get you in strife. As soon as you physically restrain someone they are no long "continuing to commit" an offence so to detain them is unlawful imprisonment.

We also have similar laws, but fortunatly, we up here are allowed to make "citizens arrests" as long as we hand the 'arrested' over to the authorities as soon as is possible to do so.
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Re: O'Reilly's in Thornbury robbed earlier today.

Post by Supaduke » 14 Feb 2018, 6:37 am

The companion to section 462 of the Victorian crimes act (use of force) is section 458 (powers of arrest).

Section 458(1)(a) means that any person found committing an offence (other than a breach of regulations) can be arrested without warrant by anyone (not only the police) who reasonably believes the arrest is necessary for any of the following reasons:

1to ensure the appearance of the offender (person committing the offence) before court;

2to preserve public order;

3to prevent the continuation or repetition of the offence or the commission of a further offence; or

4for the safety or welfare of the public or offender.

Similar laws in all states. The 'lawyer' is talking out of his poo chute.
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Re: O'Reilly's in Thornbury robbed earlier today.

Post by trekin » 14 Feb 2018, 6:45 am

Supaduke wrote:The companion to section 462 of the Victorian crimes act (use of force) is section 458 (powers of arrest).

Section 458(1)(a) means that any person found committing an offence (other than a breach of regulations) can be arrested without warrant by anyone (not only the police) who reasonably believes the arrest is necessary for any of the following reasons:

1to ensure the appearance of the offender (person committing the offence) before court;

2to preserve public order;

3to prevent the continuation or repetition of the offence or the commission of a further offence; or

4for the safety or welfare of the public or offender.

Similar laws in all states. The 'lawyer' is talking out of his poo chute.

The problem with most lawyers, I fear.
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Re: O'Reilly's in Thornbury robbed earlier today.

Post by AusTac » 14 Feb 2018, 7:00 am

If i ever was to get into a life threatening situation i'll be sure to call a quick time out and brush up on law :crazy:
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Re: O'Reilly's in Thornbury robbed earlier today.

Post by trekin » 14 Feb 2018, 7:18 am

AusTac wrote:If i ever was to get into a life threatening situation i'll be sure to call a quick time out and brush up on law :crazy:

Even hard working crims take the time to get to know some laws that may help in their defence, and take the time to find a lawyer who will actually try to defend them in court instead of rolling over and copping it and put them on speed dial. What's your excuse? :P
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Re: O'Reilly's in Thornbury robbed earlier today.

Post by Supaduke » 14 Feb 2018, 8:09 am

AusTac wrote:If i ever was to get into a life threatening situation i'll be sure to call a quick time out and brush up on law :crazy:


Takes a few minutes of reading to know your rights and dispell BS myths about burglars being able to sue. You are well within your rights to defend yourself and apprehend people inside your house who broke in.

Knowledge is power.

There is assumed access to your front door. Not illegal to enter a property and knock on the front door. That is the beginning and end of any strangers right to access your property without permission.

Guys reading the meter have access to them only and can't enter anywhere else.

Do your part, learn your rights and dispell the crap.
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Re: O'Reilly's in Thornbury robbed earlier today.

Post by juststarting » 14 Feb 2018, 8:16 am

AusTac wrote:If i ever was to get into a life threatening situation i'll be sure to call a quick time out and brush up on law :crazy:


Exactly! Everyone seems to be ignoring this.
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Re: O'Reilly's in Thornbury robbed earlier today.

Post by AusTac » 14 Feb 2018, 8:18 am

Double post :x
Last edited by AusTac on 14 Feb 2018, 8:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: O'Reilly's in Thornbury robbed earlier today.

Post by AusTac » 14 Feb 2018, 8:20 am

trekin wrote:What's your excuse? :P

The police will protect me :lol:
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Re: O'Reilly's in Thornbury robbed earlier today.

Post by trekin » 14 Feb 2018, 8:21 am

Supaduke wrote:
AusTac wrote:If i ever was to get into a life threatening situation i'll be sure to call a quick time out and brush up on law :crazy:


Takes a few minutes of reading to know your rights and dispell BS myths about burglars being able to sue. You are well within your rights to defend yourself and apprehend people inside your house who broke in.

Knowledge is power.

There is assumed access to your front door. Not illegal to enter a property and knock on the front door. That is the beginning and end of any strangers right to access your property without permission.

Guys reading the meter have access to them only and can't enter anywhere else.

Do your part, learn your rights and dispell the crap.

"ignorantia legis neminem excusat" works for both sides.
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Re: O'Reilly's in Thornbury robbed earlier today.

Post by trekin » 14 Feb 2018, 8:31 am

AusTac wrote:
trekin wrote:What's your excuse? :P

The police will protect me :lol:

Wish I had me one of them. :mrgreen: Do you need a PTA to get one :?:
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Re: O'Reilly's in Thornbury robbed earlier today.

Post by Wombat » 14 Feb 2018, 6:35 pm

Supaduke wrote:There is assumed access to your front door. Not illegal to enter a property and knock on the front door. That is the beginning and end of any strangers right to access your property without permission.

Guys reading the meter have access to them only and can't enter anywhere else.

Do your part, learn your rights and dispell the crap.

Actually there are other exceptions including some council officers, they can enter a property for an inspection without notice.
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Re: O'Reilly's in Thornbury robbed earlier today.

Post by Daddybang » 14 Feb 2018, 7:37 pm

Wombat wrote:
Supaduke wrote:There is assumed access to your front door. Not illegal to enter a property and knock on the front door. That is the beginning and end of any strangers right to access your property without permission.

Guys reading the meter have access to them only and can't enter anywhere else.

Do your part, learn your rights and dispell the crap.

Actually there are other exceptions including some council officers, they can enter a property for an inspection without notice.


Don't know about other states but up here the fisheries mob can pretty much enter where and when they like. They actually have greater powers than the police for search and seizure. :thumbsdown: :drinks:
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Re: O'Reilly's in Thornbury robbed earlier today.

Post by sungazer » 14 Feb 2018, 7:45 pm

A guy down the road was building his own house and it was pretty much finished and they had started to live it. One day a policeman rolled up with a councilor in tow. It turned out that the councilor had to do an inspection or deliver some news and had the police accompany him as the householder had a firearms license. So it is not only police that can access the file as to who holds a firearms license. The home owner of course was just a normal guy and not in anyway upset or angry at the councilors visit it was all over in 5 minutes as those type of inspections are and the police left without any fuss
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Re: O'Reilly's in Thornbury robbed earlier today.

Post by holden4th » 14 Feb 2018, 7:51 pm

trekin wrote:
holden4th wrote:From another perspective.

If my home is invaded. I have a handgun and loaded ammunition on the premises. The handgun is locked in my safe. My ammunition is stored separately and is also locked up. The location of both means that I would have very little chance of reaching and loading my firearm. When I selected my storage points, a home invasion was the last thought on my mind. If Imoved to new premises it would still be like that.

Reasonable use of force in Australia is an interesting legal concept. A number of years ago I surprised someone who had broken into my unit, subdued them with minimal force and restrained them. When the police showed up they recognised the burglar, ignored his complaints about being attacked by me, took him away and after getting details from me that was it. Assuming this happened in QLD, being "known to police" would have very little to do with the outcome you decribed. Police officers who knew the laws of QLD, and were willing to uphold the Rights of one of its citizens were probably the reason you were not given any grief.

I talked to a mate of mine who is a lawyer about the incident who said I was very lucky. The police could have charged me with illegally restraining an individual. Today I probably wouldn't get away with it. No you probably wouldn't IF you retained the services of a lawyer who;
A. Does not know the laws of this State,
B. Is too lazy to put together a defence on your behalf, because they are either incompetent in their chosen profession, or are just after the easy buck, or,
C. Are just wanna-be politicians in the making, with no concerns for the Rights of this States citizens, but still wanting to get their snouts in the public trough on a platform of law and order.
Now this is for just stopping and restraining someone who entered my home illegally. Add a weapon and it gets worse.

Get to know and understand the laws. Section 267 of The QLD Criminal Code Act not only endorses your Common Law Right to defend your home by whatever means you decide to use;
"267 Defence of dwelling
It is lawful for a person who is in peaceable possession of a
dwelling, and any person lawfully assisting him or her or
acting by his or her authority, to use force to prevent or repel
another person from unlawfully entering or remaining in the
dwelling, if the person using the force believes on reasonable
grounds—
(a) the other person is attempting to enter or to remain in
the dwelling with intent to commit an indictable offence
in the dwelling; and
(b) it is necessary to use that force."
It also, by its wording, embraces 'Castle Doctrine' and removes your 'duty to retreat' which has been upheld by The Supreme Court of QLD.
https://archive.sclqld.org.au/qjudgment ... 13-361.pdf
https://archive.sclqld.org.au/qjudgment ... 09-375.pdf
https://archive.sclqld.org.au/qjudgment ... 13-339.pdf


Thank you for the information regarding how to deal with someone breaking into my home. I did use the 'citizens arrest' scenario when talking to the cops, in fact I made it when I called 000 so it was on record. I now feel far more confident in taking affirmative action against scumbag thieves who want to steal my property.
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