Interesting article regarding recent US school shooting

News and events in the media and political arena relating to firearms.

Re: Interesting article regarding recent US school shooting

Post by sungazer » 26 Feb 2018, 1:10 pm

What type of crime is a felony?
Would a shoplifter charged with theft? Someone that drives off without paying for gas? Smoking dope if not legal in your state? Prostitution either selling or buying? Any type of driving offense?
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Re: Interesting article regarding recent US school shooting

Post by Gaznazdiak » 26 Feb 2018, 1:15 pm

No no NO.
It's not the guns, or the knives, or the laws, or even the stupid media and politicians, it's bloody people.
Here, there, and everywhere there has been a problem, there has been a person involved.
Simple, ban the bastards.
Isn't that the way the Gummint does things?


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Re: Interesting article regarding recent US school shooting

Post by wanneroo » 26 Feb 2018, 1:29 pm

sungazer wrote:What type of crime is a felony?
Would a shoplifter charged with theft? Someone that drives off without paying for gas? Smoking dope if not legal in your state? Prostitution either selling or buying? Any type of driving offense?


None of those things. That would all fall in the misdemeanor category.

Felonies are typically getting into significant violence that causes bodily injury or property theft or destruction.
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Re: Interesting article regarding recent US school shooting

Post by Oldbloke » 27 Feb 2018, 11:50 am

An interesting article about Israel gun law.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Artic ... aspx/21714
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Re: Interesting article regarding recent US school shooting

Post by sungazer » 27 Feb 2018, 12:03 pm

Thats a very good article with well chosen examples. it should do the rounds in Australian press.
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Re: Interesting article regarding recent US school shooting

Post by Archie » 27 Feb 2018, 12:28 pm

Oldbloke wrote:An interesting article about Israel gun law.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Artic ... aspx/21714


So basically sounds like:
- Israel has stopped mass shootings by giving everyone (at least basic - maybe not, as the article says, very advanced marksmanship) military training and allowing widespread access to guns. For what its worth I think the article underestimates the extent to which compulsory service instils a bit of discipline and self-awareness in people, over and above any shooting skills.
- Australia has stopped mass shootings by heavily restricting access to guns
- America has allowed ongoing mass shootings by allowing widespread access to guns and with seemingly ineffective filtration mechanism as to who can get them or their level of training.

And to be clear, I said ineffective, not-non existent, because either the laws aren't there, or they are not being enforced - because of poor work by FBI or local police. Regardless outcome is pretty much the same, the nutters still get their hands on close-to-military grade weaponry - and yes, I know an AR15 isn't really military grade because its semi- not full-auto, but then again, even an standard M4 isn't "full" full-auto in normal configuration so maybe that's a minor point. Speaking for myself, I don't think I'm going to care too much for the specific difference in effective rate of fire if one is being pointed at me. Or my kid.

Either way, solution to mass shootings seems simple enough.

Restrict the guns or bring back the draft.
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Re: Interesting article regarding recent US school shooting

Post by Gamerancher » 28 Feb 2018, 7:55 am

Here's an interesting break down of the statistics on gun related deaths in the U.S that I received from a mate in Oklahoma this morning.
Read into it what you will.

Written by;
Robert Göltl
February 16 at 7:09am

There are 30,000 gun related deaths per year by firearms, and this number is not disputed. U.S. population 324,059,091 as of Wednesday, June 22, 2016. Do the math: 0.000000925% of the population dies from gun related actions each year. Statistically speaking, this is insignificant! What is never told, however, is a breakdown of those 30,000 deaths, to put them in perspective as compared to other causes of death:

• 65% of those deaths are by suicide which would never be prevented by gun laws
• 15% are by (alleged) law enforcement
• 17% are through criminal activity, gang and drug related or mentally ill persons – gun violence
• 3% are accidental discharge deaths

So technically, "gun violence" is not 30,000 annually, but drops to 5,100. Still too many? Well, first, how are those deaths spanned across the nation?
• 480 homicides (9.4%) were in Chicago
• 344 homicides (6.7%) were in Baltimore
• 333 homicides (6.5%) were in Detroit
• 119 homicides (2.3%) were in Washington D.C. (a 54% increase over prior years)

So basically, 25% of all gun crime happens in just 4 cities. All 4 of those cities have strict gun laws, so it is not the lack of law that is the root cause.

This basically leaves 3,825 for the entire rest of the nation. California had 1,169 and Alabama had 1.

Now, who has the strictest gun laws by far? California, of course , so understand, it is not "guns" causing this. It is the number of criminal persons residing in those cities and states.

Are 5,100 deaths per year horrific? How about in comparison to other deaths? All death is sad and especially so when it is in the commission of a crime, but that is the nature of crime. Robbery, death, rape, assault all is done by criminals. Thinking that criminals will obey laws is ludicrous.

What about other causes of death each year?
• 40,000+ die from a drug overdose
• 36,000 die per year from the flu, far exceeding the criminal gun deaths
• 34,000 people die per year in traffic fatalities (exceeding gun deaths even if you include suicide)
• 200,000+ people die each year from preventable medical errors. You are safer in Chicago than when you are in a hospital!
• 710,000 people die per year from heart disease. If Obama and the anti-gun movement focused their attention on heart disease, even a 10% decrease in cardiac deaths would save twice the number of lives annually of all gun-related deaths (including suicide, law enforcement, etc.). A 10% reduction in medical errors would be 66% of the total gun deaths or 4 times the number of criminal homicides... Simple, easily preventable 10% reductions!

So you have to ask yourself, in the grand scheme of things, why the focus on guns? It's pretty simple: Taking away guns gives control to governments.

The founders of this nation knew that regardless of the form of government, those in power will become corrupt and seek to rule as the British did by trying to disarm the populace of the colonies. It is not difficult to understand that a disarmed populace is a controlled populace.

Thus, the second amendment was proudly and boldly included in the U.S. Constitution. It must be preserved at all costs.

So the next time someone tries to tell you that gun control is about saving lives, look at these facts and remember these words from Noah Webster: "Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword, because the whole body of the people are armed and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States. A military force at the command of Congress can execute no laws, but such as the people perceive to be just and constitutional; for they will possess the power."

Remember, when it comes to "gun control," the important word is government “control, " not “gun."
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Re: Interesting article regarding recent US school shooting

Post by Daddybang » 28 Feb 2018, 9:43 am

Gamerancher wrote:Here's an interesting break down of the statistics on gun related deaths in the U.S that I received from a mate in Oklahoma this morning.
Read into it what you will.

Written by;
Robert Göltl
February 16 at 7:09am

There are 30,000 gun related deaths per year by firearms, and this number is not disputed. U.S. population 324,059,091 as of Wednesday, June 22, 2016. Do the math: 0.000000925% of the population dies from gun related actions each year. Statistically speaking, this is insignificant! What is never told, however, is a breakdown of those 30,000 deaths, to put them in perspective as compared to other causes of death:

• 65% of those deaths are by suicide which would never be prevented by gun laws
• 15% are by (alleged) law enforcement
• 17% are through criminal activity, gang and drug related or mentally ill persons – gun violence
• 3% are accidental discharge deaths

So technically, "gun violence" is not 30,000 annually, but drops to 5,100. Still too many? Well, first, how are those deaths spanned across the nation?
• 480 homicides (9.4%) were in Chicago
• 344 homicides (6.7%) were in Baltimore
• 333 homicides (6.5%) were in Detroit
• 119 homicides (2.3%) were in Washington D.C. (a 54% increase over prior years)

So basically, 25% of all gun crime happens in just 4 cities. All 4 of those cities have strict gun laws, so it is not the lack of law that is the root cause.

This basically leaves 3,825 for the entire rest of the nation. California had 1,169 and Alabama had 1.

Now, who has the strictest gun laws by far? California, of course , so understand, it is not "guns" causing this. It is the number of criminal persons residing in those cities and states.

Are 5,100 deaths per year horrific? How about in comparison to other deaths? All death is sad and especially so when it is in the commission of a crime, but that is the nature of crime. Robbery, death, rape, assault all is done by criminals. Thinking that criminals will obey laws is ludicrous.

What about other causes of death each year?
• 40,000+ die from a drug overdose
• 36,000 die per year from the flu, far exceeding the criminal gun deaths
• 34,000 people die per year in traffic fatalities (exceeding gun deaths even if you include suicide)
• 200,000+ people die each year from preventable medical errors. You are safer in Chicago than when you are in a hospital!
• 710,000 people die per year from heart disease. If Obama and the anti-gun movement focused their attention on heart disease, even a 10% decrease in cardiac deaths would save twice the number of lives annually of all gun-related deaths (including suicide, law enforcement, etc.). A 10% reduction in medical errors would be 66% of the total gun deaths or 4 times the number of criminal homicides... Simple, easily preventable 10% reductions!

So you have to ask yourself, in the grand scheme of things, why the focus on guns? It's pretty simple: Taking away guns gives control to governments.

The founders of this nation knew that regardless of the form of government, those in power will become corrupt and seek to rule as the British did by trying to disarm the populace of the colonies. It is not difficult to understand that a disarmed populace is a controlled populace.

Thus, the second amendment was proudly and boldly included in the U.S. Constitution. It must be preserved at all costs.

So the next time someone tries to tell you that gun control is about saving lives, look at these facts and remember these words from Noah Webster: "Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword, because the whole body of the people are armed and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States. A military force at the command of Congress can execute no laws, but such as the people perceive to be just and constitutional; for they will possess the power."

Remember, when it comes to "gun control," the important word is government “control, " not “gun."


Very interesting GR.
Thanks for posting! :thumbsup: :drinks:
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Re: Interesting article regarding recent US school shooting

Post by Oldbloke » 28 Feb 2018, 5:54 pm

Yes interesting. Certainly not simple.
What constantly perplexes me is why do people want to carry out mass murder on fellow citizens and especially children?
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Re: Interesting article regarding recent US school shooting

Post by sungazer » 28 Feb 2018, 6:03 pm

A feeling of power. In there daily life a lot of these guys are loners, shy, depressed sometimes oppressed by others so they strike out to get that feeling of revenge and power. Mental Health awareness and treatment would go a long way to avoiding some of these from happening.
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Re: Interesting article regarding recent US school shooting

Post by Daddybang » 28 Feb 2018, 6:20 pm

Oldbloke wrote:Yes interesting. Certainly not simple.
What constantly perplexes me is why do people want to carry out mass murder on fellow citizens and especially children?


I guess in a way it's a good thing we don't understand them. I'd hate to think how my mind would have to work to be able to. (If that makes sense) :crazy:
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Re: Interesting article regarding recent US school shooting

Post by Oldbloke » 28 Feb 2018, 6:35 pm

" I guess in a way it's a good thing we don't understand them. I'd hate to think how my mind would have to work to be able to. (If that makes sense) :crazy:"

In a, strange way I think your a wise man. Confused but wise. :lol:
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